111 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

 

I mean, just the fact that I refer to the asari as having 'hair-tentacles' is an example of that - they should have a term for that that they use instead, and the same with the non-birthing parent. Instead, we have Liara using the term 'father' and 'dad' to refer to Matriarch Aethyta. These are gendered terms, the asari shouldn't be using them.

 

Yeah, I think Bioware should have given the Asari some unique terminology that that simply doesn't have any applicable translation. Sort of like how in ME3, Tali explains that there is no direct translation of "Keelah Se'lai", but that it instead represents the Quarian concept of having a home.

 

Although I suppose that after realising that the rest of the galaxy weren't monogendered, the Asari decided to be diplomatic (which is their hat after all) and eschew political correctness in favour of ignoring the other races inaccurately using gendered terms to refer to them. Doesn't necessarily mean that all Asari are happy with that approach, since we know that the use of those labels is a bit of a pet peeve with Aethyta.

 

Come to think about it, if Bioware were to ever include any Trans characters into Mass Effect, I'd hope that they'd address this issue. It'd be a little jarring to have Trans characters properly addressed with the correct personal pronouns, yet continue to anthropomorphicise all of the Asari with genders that's not actually applicable to them.

[Addictress]

I like the drell, even though they are human-ish. But then again you could arguably say the asari have mind-influencing powers to make themselves appear attractive to your race (look like your race). Maybe no one knows what the asari really look like.

The asari are the worst offenders by far if that explanation fails, though. Quarians, too.

[Guitar-Hero]

Franchise needs more of this

 

How asari would actually look

[Vortex13]

I'm going to say that Chris L'Etoile was the best writer BioWare had when it came to having aliens as aliens. When he left we quickly saw a drop in the quality of the various aliens; a galaxy wide 'humanization' occurred for several of the species.

Chris L'Etolie the person behind the Rachni, the Hanar, the Geth/Legion (ME 2 version), ect. Once he left these aliens became glorified background props, the joke/meme race, or turned into Pinnochio bots.

BioWare needs to bring him back, or get someone that can write like he could when designing the aliens for their future games (IMO).

[laudable11]

If they're less human how am I supposed to get it in??

[SinisterSquash]

I'm going to say that Chris L'Etoile was the best writer BioWare had when it came to having aliens as aliens. When he left we quickly saw a drop in the quality of the various aliens; a galaxy wide 'humanization' occurred for several of the species.

Chris L'Etolie the person behind the Rachni, the Hanar, the Geth/Legion (ME 2 version), ect. Once he left these aliens became glorified background props, the joke/meme race, or turned into Pinnochio bots.

BioWare needs to bring him back, or get someone that can write like he could when designing the aliens for their future games (IMO).

 

L'Etoile! Well, he did write Thane, correct? And he "enjoyed" (his words) a Thanemance comic featuring the following...

 

Spoiler

 

A drell male able to engage and enjoy sex like a human male with a human female is far from alien.

 

He posted under his user name...

 

Spoiler

Stormwaltz

 

http://www.escapistm...uman-Day?page=3

[Solas]

I liked how Garrus (so I guess Turians) were done appearancewise at least. Like yeah they were still clearly humanoid, bipedal etc - but not just like "blue human babe" (Asari) or "purple human babe" (Quarian). That he was a popular romance still speaks well of how he was voiced and written etc. I'm still sad about what they ended up doing with Quarian appearance, with their legs they could have gone in the Turian sort of direction (not meaning looking like a Turian but looking AS different as they are, facially). Have to wonder if they would have gone in the direction they did with Quarian faces if Tali had never been made romanceable. Not complaining that she was tho, I love her and her romance.

[Ahriman]

I liked how Garrus (so I guess Turians) were done appearancewise at least. Like yeah they were still clearly humanoid, bipedal etc - but not just like "blue human babe" (Asari) or "purple human babe" (Quarian). That he was a popular romance still speaks well of how he was voiced and written etc. I'm still sad about what they ended up doing with Quarian appearance, with their legs they could have gone in the Turian sort of direction (not meaning looking like a Turian but looking AS different as they are, facially). Have to wonder if they would have gone in the direction they did with Quarian faces if Tali had never been made romanceable. Not complaining that she was tho, I love her and her romance.

Agree on Turians, they do look quite alien despite technical humanoid limitations, but Tali was shown to have human-like face already in ME1, so it has nothing to do with romance. They were space dalish since the beginning.

[Vortex13]

L'Etoile! Well, he did write Thane, correct? And he "enjoyed" (his words) a Thanemance comic featuring the following...

 

-snip-

 

A drell male able to engage and enjoy sex like a human male with a human female is far from alien.

 

 

I don't see how his enjoying of such a biologically unlikely pairing has anything to do with his work regarding the 'alien' aliens of the franchise. So he enjoyed a Femshep & Thane romance, that doesn't detract from the fact that he was behind the unique aliens like the Rachni, the Thorian, the Geth, etc. and that out of all the writers he was the only one to capture that aliens as aliens vibe.

 

Even if we are to take his work with Thane as a negative mark to his record, he still is has all of the unique elements that helped make Mass Effect so engaging (to me at least) under his belt.

[PlatonicWaffles]

Honestly I'm not that bothered about most of the races being bipedal in structure, but it'd be nice to see them deviate from using humans as a template when creating new species.

[Han Shot First]

Agree on Turians, they do look quite alien despite technical humanoid limitations, but Tali was shown to have human-like face already in ME1, so it has nothing to do with romance. They were space dalish since the beginning.

 

While the Quarians were always imagined as humanoid, some of the early concepts of them were more alien in appearance than what ended up being revealed in Mass Effect 3. They weren't always space elves. This is one of the concepts by Matt Rhodes:

 

 

I think it is fair to say that Tali being made a LI had an impact on the Quarians' final design. Personally I think the very human-looking reveal for Tali was a reaction to the popularity of this fanart among the Talimancers.

 

While the artist is talented, I never cared for that fanart because I thought it strayed too closely to making the Quarians similar to Star Trek aliens like the Bajorans. Aliens that are near identical to humans in Star Trek works because many species share a common ancestry, but it is a bit odd in Mass Effect where the species have evolved separately and are unrelated. Obviously once Tali was made a LI the Quarians were never going to be designed in a way that wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but I wish that could have been accomplished without making them look nearly identical humans. My preference would have been enough human-like traits to keep the Talimancers happy and just enough alien traits that they could never be mistaken for some long lost cousin of humanity.

[Ahriman]

Bald elf or stock-photo-after-15-minutes-in-photoshop elf, both look pretty much human anyway. That was my point.

[Han Shot First]

Bald elf or stock-photo-after-15-minutes-in-photoshop elf, both look pretty much human anyway. That was my point.

 

I get that. I was disagreeing with the bit where it was stated that they were always intended to be 'space Dalish.'

[Chealec]

Alien enough for ya?

 

 

 

 

[Quarian Master Race]

Instead of phrasing this question as less of something, how about simply having more of the non humanoids and giving them a larger role? Of course the only ones that actually qualify as really different in this series are the Rachni and Thorian, IMO. Having a non humanoid form and speaking in 3rd person doesn't really impress me any more than a bipedal Roman Empire era human with mandibles, a communistical human wearing an envirosuit, a magic human female with blue skin, a selfish and violent human with a face designed for headbutting, a fast talking human or a green human who has flashbacks.

Nor is there anything inherently wrong with humanoid aliens, unless you want all of your major and recurring characters to be humans or glorified codex entries that use slightly different pronouns like Legion. There's also the issue of non humanoid forms taking far more resources to animate and making combat design more difficult, albiet I don't think it is insurmountable. 

Also, calling the devs racists for doing what is typical in Science Fiction (actually typical ME aliens are less like humans than the ones in most popular settings like Trek or Star Wars) then not providing any ideas of your own is pretty rich. Something about stones and glass houses

 

It was a shame that they ended up making the Geth increasingly more "human" as the games went on (especially in ME3), when they were presented as utterly alien in the first two games in both their actions and way of thinking. It'd be nice to have an AI character for once in fiction that doesn't want to end up being a "real boy" and instead embraces their nature as something inherently non-human.

The geth were hardly ever interesting to begin with. Terminator, Cylon Centurions and the Borg (of which the geth are essentially a combination of) are pretty "alien" but in a stupid manner. I don't see how that's much better than mechanical Pinocchio.

Legion was a walking codex entry that spoke in first person plural and reacted to situations in almost the exact same way a human devoid of moral restrictions would (E.g., stealing classified data from others to gain advantage, constant lying). I can talk in monotone and move my eyebrows around too. Such alien, very distinct, wow.

Agree on Turians, they do look quite alien despite technical humanoid limitations, but Tali was shown to have human-like face already in ME1, so it has nothing to do with romance. They were space dalish since the beginning.

Like the first bit and totally don't get why people get butthurt over quarians not looking like Rattataki. Being pale and having no hair is hardly more alien than being pale and having bioluminescent eyes with a few wires on your neck. Moreover, both either is pretty much irrelevant when you can't see the faces of the species in question unless you try to bang them.

The bolded part, though is a strange criticism considering that the Dalish were invented second of the two (as a lazily modified copy of Tolkien elves) and nomadicism is the only real cultural or biological similarity the two have. That's analogous calling the turians space qunari because both are tall, grey, militaristic, meritocratic and predisposed to public service.
 

[KaiserShep]

I thought Legion was plenty interesting. I'd rank him among my top 4 of the ME2 core group, with Mordin Garrus and Miranda. The walking codex thing was more of an ME1 thing, the biggest offenders being Tali, and Liara to a lesser extent.

[RedLens37]

In an RPG such as this, we are expected to develop some kind of emotional attachment to the characters in the game. If you are a human, which I'll go out on a limb to assume most, if not all, of you are, then game characters who exhibit human-like qualities, both physically and behaviorally, are going to be more relatable. I think it makes the game more interesting to include some non-humanlike characters (Rachni and Hanar for instance). But I'm going to be able to develop a deeper relationship with a squad of characters with human-like qualities that I can empathize with and/or be attracted to or disturbed by. A game populated by mostly Rachni and Hanar -ish characters won't be able to make as much of an emotional impact on a player as one full of Turians and Asari.

[Quarian Master Race]

I thought Legion was plenty interesting. I'd rank him among my top 4 of the ME2 core group, with Mordin Garrus and Miranda. The walking codex thing was more of an ME1 thing, the biggest offenders being Tali, and Liara to a lesser extent.

It was interesting in that it served as an exposition device for the geth. The character itself had no personality to speak of and 99% of its dialogue was about geth operating processes and "culture", with the other 1% being "no data available". People like it because "wow cool robot with flappy head things". ME1 Tali and Liara actually had distinct personalities with ideologies shaped by them, and also talked a little about their limited (due to their young ages) life experiences and family. 

[Silvair]

All the aliens except Asari and Batarians were fine.

The former were just human women but blue, and the token Amazon race.

Batarian were just humans with a Klingon fringe, and no characterization beyond "slaver"

[holdenagincourt]

In an RPG such as this, we are expected to develop some kind of emotional attachment to the characters in the game. If you are a human, which I'll go out on a limb to assume most, if not all, of you are, then game characters who exhibit human-like qualities, both physically and behaviorally, are going to be more relatable. I think it makes the game more interesting to include some non-humanlike characters (Rachni and Hanar for instance). But I'm going to be able to develop a deeper relationship with a squad of characters with human-like qualities that I can empathize with and/or be attracted to or disturbed by. A game populated by mostly Rachni and Hanar -ish characters won't be able to make as much of an emotional impact on a player as one full of Turians and Asari.

 

Actually, the conversation with the rachni queen and my "relationship" with her throughout the series was one which held a lot of emotional weight for me. I would say I felt just as much of a connection to, respect for and obligation toward the rachni as I did with relation to the asari, turians, salarians and all the rest. One being less anthropomorphic than the others had nothing to do with the matter.

 

The hanar not so much, but not because they were insufficiently anthropomorphic. They were simply underdeveloped and mainly used for comic relief, much like the elcor (especially past the first game). A lot of my impression of the hanar comes from Thane. I want to know more about them, anyway.

[holdenagincourt]

It was interesting in that it served as an exposition device for the geth. The character itself had no personality to speak of and 99% of its dialogue was about geth operating processes and "culture", with the other 1% being "no data available". People like it because "wow cool robot with flappy head things". ME1 Tali and Liara actually had distinct personalities with ideologies shaped by them, and also talked a little about their limited (due to their young ages) life experiences and family. 

 

Legion did have a personality, though not in the way organic characters do. Its personality is a representation of the geth as a collective rather than as an individual (although the line between Legion's gestalt consciousness and geth as a larger population is sometimes unclear in conversation). This is consistent with the nature of the geth as revealed in conversation and leads to some interesting discussions, especially with respect to the Reapers and self-determination. Why would I judge geth by the standards of an organic individual only to find them lacking?

 

And your dismissive characterization of fan appreciation of Legion reveals more about your own biases than theirs.

[Gonda]

Yeaah i want some sexy Hanar and Elcor females!!

[Chealec]

Legion did have a personality, though not in the way organic characters do. Its personality is a representation of the geth as a collective rather than as an individual (although the line between Legion's gestalt consciousness and geth as a larger population is sometimes unclear in conversation). This is consistent with the nature of the geth as revealed in conversation and leads to some interesting discussions, especially with respect to the Reapers and self-determination. Why would I judge geth by the standards of an organic individual only to find them lacking?

 

And your dismissive characterization of fan appreciation of Legion reveals more about your own biases than theirs.

 

You realise they're called Quarian Master Race right?

[LisuPL]

I'm all for keeping Turians, Asari and Krogan as humanoid aliens and then introducing "unusual" alien types in ME:A.

It's a different galaxy and evolution could have taken a different path there...

[Vortex13]

Also, calling the devs racists for doing what is typical in Science Fiction (actually typical ME aliens are less like humans than the ones in most popular settings like Trek or Star Wars) then not providing any ideas of your own is pretty rich. Something about stones and glass houses

 

I don't recall anyone specifically calling BioWare racists for their depiction of fictional beings, then again I am not super abreast on BSN craziness. No one is racist for relying on established tropes, but that's not to say that some of the established tropes are based on some rather questionable stereotypes.

 

The perfect example of this being the Ferengi, Watto's race, and (potentially) the Volus being based on a very particular caricature of Jewish Bankers. Short, usually cowardly creatures with an exaggerated facial feature (big nose for Watto, big ears for the Ferengi, or exaggerated almost constantly out of shape breathing in the Volus' case) that love money grubbing and/or being shrewd businessmen. 

 

I will say though, that I thought that BioWare's decision to turn the Hanar and Elcor (the Hanar especially) into one dimensional caricatures in ME 2&3 was extremely lazy and could be considered racist if it would have been something like James Vega being depicted as a stereotypical hispanic person; a ME version of Speedy Gonzales; just for cheap laughs. 

 

 

The geth were hardly ever interesting to begin with. Terminator, Cylon Centurions and the Borg (of which the geth are essentially a combination of) are pretty "alien" but in a stupid manner. I don't see how that's much better than mechanical Pinocchio.

Legion was a walking codex entry that spoke in first person plural and reacted to situations in almost the exact same way a human devoid of moral restrictions would (E.g., stealing classified data from others to gain advantage, constant lying). I can talk in monotone and move my eyebrows around too. Such alien, very distinct, wow.

 

 

Legion and the Geth in ME 2 weren't some earth shattering depiction of an alien life form, and yes Legion was a bit on the info dump side of things as far as a companion went. But the nature of the Geth and their consensus was pretty different from anything else in the setting. More importantly the Geth (in ME 2) were a synthetic life form that was willing to work with organics that didn't want to become just like us; which if you think about it, is actually extremely rare in science fiction. You either have your Skynet-esque murderbots, or the Commander Data human wannabes no middle ground.

 

Also the Geth in ME 2 weren't whitewashed as the blameless victims of Quarian aggression like they were in ME 3. Legion acknowledges that the Geth did great harm to the creators, but it never attempted to make excuses for their actions it or apologize. The situation was much more muddled in ME 2, and one could see both sides of the conflict.