271 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

Sten disagrees

 

"I don't understand. You look like a woman."

 

If he considered it proven, he would say "You are a woman".  

 

 

Actually I'm onfident that Qunari would kill a life that serves no function.  Retirement is not a thing for them.  Which would of course be an alternative approach.  Since a female mage is useless and dangerous (and there's no way the Qunari would let a mage heal or screw around with the weather for agricultural purposes.  According to Sten they regard mages as dangerous feral creatures) they kill them all.  It could have been an answer to the riddle posed by Sten.   But it would be kind of dumb and wasteful.  

 

He said that because appearance is all he had to go on at that time. It isn't like he knew her from birth like a Tamassran would have.

 

Well whatever they do with them, they exist, and Sten never said otherwise.
 

[Illegitimus]

He said that because appearance is all he had to go on at that time. It isn't like he knew her from birth like a Tamassran would have.

 

 

Well he had appearance, voice, the fact that all the other people refer to her as "she" and she doesn't have a problem with that.  And yet he still regards her being a woman as in doubt.  To my mind that fits with the idea that the Qunari are prepared to define people as being of the opposite sex if that fits what they are best at.  In which case their expectation is apparently that those so defined live the myth as much as possible.  His confusion would then be because the women of the party aren't doing that.  

 

 

 

 

Well whatever they do with them, they exist, and Sten never said otherwise.
 

 

If that is, your claim that he was only answering half the question (and the less relevant half) is accurate.  But your basis for that claim is that if he was in fact answering  "Yes there are no female mages or fighters" that would conflict with your thesis.  But if you're right, that makes Sten surprisingly sloppy with his communication in that he answered only the less relevant bit.  

[Dai Grepher]

Well he had appearance, voice, the fact that all the other people refer to her as "she" and she doesn't have a problem with that.  And yet he still regards her being a woman as in doubt.  To my mind that fits with the idea that the Qunari are prepared to define people as being of the opposite sex if that fits what they are best at.  In which case their expectation is apparently that those so defined live the myth as much as possible.  His confusion would then be because the women of the party aren't doing that.  

 

 

 

If that is, your claim that he was only answering half the question (and the less relevant half) is accurate.  But your basis for that claim is that if he was in fact answering  "Yes there are no female mages or fighters" that would conflict with your thesis.  But if you're right, that makes Sten surprisingly sloppy with his communication in that he answered only the less relevant bit.  

 

But he doesn't doubt that the F!Warden is a woman. Using appearance as his basis for believing she is a woman is proof that he saw her as female. What perplexed him was her action of fighting.

 

Again, it's like if a man told you he was pregnant. You would be confused by it. You would think that one of those things couldn't be true.

 

Call his answer sloppy if you want, I think you'd have to say the same of Wynne's question then. But the fact is that Sten calls Wynne "mage", so he does not believe there are no female mages. It could be that there are no female "mages" under the Qun as the rest of Thedas understands mages. In which case Sten is correct. There are no female mages under the Qun because there are no mages at all. There are only Saarebas, dangerous things. They do not have autonomy or any kind of freedom over themselves. So if Sten understands "mage" to mean some free-roaming magic user like Wynne, then no, there are no mages under the Qun, female or male.

[Illegitimus]

But he doesn't doubt that the F!Warden is a woman

 

He says he does.  Just as he expresses doubt that any of the female fighters Morrigan mentions are actually women

 

 

Again, it's like if a man told you he was pregnant. You would be confused by it. You would think that one of those things couldn't be true.

 

 

But which one?  Suppose I'm talking to a humanoid alien who appears to be male and is refers to itself as such.  It says that it is pregnant.  That could mean that it is actually female (in the biological sense), it could meant that it is lying or joking, it could mean that it is semantically co-opting its mate's pregnancy, or it could mean that the females have ovipositors.  

 

. So if Sten understands "mage" to mean some free-roaming magic user like Wynne, then no, there are no mages under the Qun, female or male.

 

And if Sten understands "woman" to mean "someone who can not fight" and he encounters a woman who does fight, well enough to possibly beat him in fact, then one way to resolve that paradox is to decide that that her biological traits are secondary to her social role which is not that of a woman.  Which is why he calls her sex into question.  

 

Here's something to consider.  

 

Given that the Qunari are expected to regard the Qun as infallible and absolute, that it does not describe what should be, but what is.

Given that their interpretation of the Qun is that women can not fight.

Given that historically some few women have responded to being told that women can't fight by military forces by posing as men.  (And it's happened in Thedas as well.)

Given that some women do not have realistic physical limitations in the setting, so that the greatest heavily armoured combatant in the world could be a woman.

Given that the Qunari already officially ignore the biological reality that elves are not 7 foot tall and do not have horns and pretend that they are the same race if they adopt the same religion.  

 

Is it really such a stretch that a high-ranking Qunari true believer would make it official that there are some men who are women and vice versa when they learn that one of their greatest warriors is a disguised woman?  

[BSpud]

So many nerd tears, over nothing.

[Dai Grepher]

He says he does.  Just as he expresses doubt that any of the female fighters Morrigan mentions are actually women

 

 

But which one?  Suppose I'm talking to a humanoid alien who appears to be male and is refers to itself as such.  It says that it is pregnant.  That could mean that it is actually female (in the biological sense), it could meant that it is lying or joking, it could mean that it is semantically co-opting its mate's pregnancy, or it could mean that the females have ovipositors.  

 

 

And if Sten understands "woman" to mean "someone who can not fight" and he encounters a woman who does fight, well enough to possibly beat him in fact, then one way to resolve that paradox is to decide that that her biological traits are secondary to her social role which is not that of a woman.  Which is why he calls her sex into question.  

 

Here's something to consider.  

 

Given that the Qunari are expected to regard the Qun as infallible and absolute, that it does not describe what should be, but what is.

Given that their interpretation of the Qun is that women can not fight.

Given that historically some few women have responded to being told that women can't fight by military forces by posing as men.  (And it's happened in Thedas as well.)

Given that some women do not have realistic physical limitations in the setting, so that the greatest heavily armoured combatant in the world could be a woman.

Given that the Qunari already officially ignore the biological reality that elves are not 7 foot tall and do not have horns and pretend that they are the same race if they adopt the same religion.  

 

Is it really such a stretch that a high-ranking Qunari true believer would make it official that there are some men who are women and vice versa when they learn that one of their greatest warriors is a disguised woman?  

 

No he doesn't. You're just lumping the female that Sten does know in with the females that Sten doesn't know.

 

This isn't Mass Effect. Sten knows he's talking to a woman because he sees that she is a woman based on her appearance.

 

Sten does not understand it to mean that. "One who cannot fight" can be a male baker, for example. He understands "woman" for what it means, and he understands what their roles are, none of which are fighting on the battlefield.

 

That is not a viable solution to solve the "paradox". The solution is to see that the female is acting outside of her role and must be reeducated despite how skilled she might be. Biological traits are facts. They are not secondary to behaviors and actions, which can be controlled.

 

He doesn't call her sex into question. He calls her actions into question.

 

They don't ignore anything about elves. Allowing them to practice the Qun is not the same as admitting them into the Qunari race.

 

Yes, it is an impossible stretch. If a male baker can't become a warrior, then neither can a female.

[Illegitimus]

No he doesn't. You're just lumping the female that Sten does know in with the females that Sten doesn't know.

 

This isn't Mass Effect. Sten knows he's talking to a woman because he sees that she is a woman based on her appearance.

 

Sten does not understand it to mean that. "One who cannot fight" can be a male baker, 

 

It is impossible for a man to bake.  The Qun says so.  And If Sten knows he's talking to a woman, why does he say "You seem to be a woman?"  Isn't that an odd thing to say to someone you know is a woman?   As for the elves, allowing them to practice the Qun DOES make them Qunari.  They have no word for the race that is not the religion.  

[Dai Grepher]

It is impossible for a man to bake.  The Qun says so.  And If Sten knows he's talking to a woman, why does he say "You seem to be a woman?"  Isn't that an odd thing to say to someone you know is a woman?   As for the elves, allowing them to practice the Qun DOES make them Qunari.  They have no word for the race that is not the religion.  

 

I don't remember that ever being said about bakers.

 

He didn't ask anything like that. He stated, "You look like a woman".

 

They are of the Qunari religion, but they are not of the race. They are called Viddathari. Those not of the Qun are bas.

[AshenEndymion]

Eh... If Sten was absolutely certain that the Warden was female, I find it difficult to believe that he would say "You look like a woman" rather than "You are a woman."

 

It seems to me that if a female Warden had the option to say "Yes, I look like a woman... but I'm not", that would have been the end of the conversation because it would have fell in line with what Sten says of the Qun: Only men fight, the Warden fights, the Warden must be a man.

[Dai Grepher]

Sten did not say that of the Qun.

[AshenEndymion]

Sten did not say that of the Qun.

 

After hearing the Warden's response to Sten's comment that the Warden looks like a woman, Sten says "You are a Grey Warden, so it follows that you can't be a woman".

 

If Sten is not speaking of the Qun, what exactly is he saying?

[Dai Grepher]

After hearing the Warden's response to Sten's comment that the Warden looks like a woman, Sten says "You are a Grey Warden, so it follows that you can't be a woman".

 

If Sten is not speaking of the Qun, what exactly is he saying?

 

Saying, "it follows that you can't be a woman" is not the same as saying, "you must be a man", which is what you claimed in your last post.

 

Sten was saying that the Qun states a warrior can never be a woman. A Grey Warden fights the darkspawn, therefore it follows that a Grey Warden can't be a woman. Nowhere does he say the F!Warden is not a woman, just that it doesn't make sense that she is a warrior.

 

He is speaking of the Qun, but he didn't say the F!Warden was male, or that she wasn't female, or that a man is defined by the warrior role.
 

All he's saying is that only men can be warriors.

[AshenEndymion]

Saying, "it follows that you can't be a woman" is not the same as saying, "you must be a man", which is what you claimed in your last post.

 

Sten was saying that the Qun states a warrior can never be a woman. A Grey Warden fights the darkspawn, therefore it follows that a Grey Warden can't be a woman. Nowhere does he say the F!Warden is not a woman, just that it doesn't make sense that she is a warrior.

 

He is speaking of the Qun, but he didn't say the F!Warden was male, or that she wasn't female, or that a man is defined by the warrior role.
 

All he's saying is that only men can be warriors.

 

If "it follows you can't be a woman" isn't the same as "you must be a man", then the Qun must have three genders...

 

Also, Sten doesn't say anywhere that it doesn't make sense F!Warden is a warrior.  Sten says it doesn't make sense that F!Warden is a woman...  And why he says that comes back to the Qun saying only men can be warriors.  Sten acknowledges that F!Warden is a warrior(unlike all the other females in the group).  Just not that F!Warden is a woman.

[BabyPuncher]

I think people are giving this a lot more thought then it deserves.

 

Iron Bull says what he says so he can give approval of transgender people as a mouthpiece for BioWare. I think it's really that simple.

[BSpud]

Lol, David.

[trevelyan_shep]

I think people are giving this a lot more thought then it deserves.

Iron Bull says what he says so he can give approval of transgender people as a mouthpiece for BioWare. I think it's really that simple.

This... actually makes sense.

Oh my.

[RenAdaar]

if you chose the "when did you know?" option no one seems upset about it.  

[Dai Grepher]

If "it follows you can't be a woman" isn't the same as "you must be a man", then the Qun must have three genders...

 

Also, Sten doesn't say anywhere that it doesn't make sense F!Warden is a warrior.  Sten says it doesn't make sense that F!Warden is a woman...  And why he says that comes back to the Qun saying only men can be warriors.  Sten acknowledges that F!Warden is a warrior(unlike all the other females in the group).  Just not that F!Warden is a woman.

 

No, he's just saying the logic follows that a warrior can't be female. It's the same as saying, "You are pregnant, therefore it follows that you can't be a man", in response to a woman who says, "I am pregnant, and I am a man". The bottom line is that Sten is saying warriors cannot be women. This does not mean the Qun accepts transgenders.

 

I didn't say he said that specifically, just that this was his point.

 

Sten acknowledges both, but he takes issue with her being a warrior. He tells her that women are priests, artisans, or farmers, they do not fight. He clearly takes issue with her being a warrior, not being a woman.

 

Her being a woman is a physical fact. No one can deny that. The behavior of going into battle and fighting as a warrior are behaviors. Behaviors can be changed through reeducation.

 

The Qun is crystal clear on that.
 

[Vit246]

I think people are giving this a lot more thought then it deserves.

 

Iron Bull says what he says so he can give approval of transgender people as a mouthpiece for BioWare. I think it's really that simple.

 

Honestly its this simple.

People give too much credit to Bioware for cleverly writing a clever Qun that is clearly 2deep4u and 2deep4me to understand. Bow before the infinite wisdom of Bioware. If you question it, you're a heretic.

[Cobra's_back]

Let me start by saying I completely love the Dragon Age universe.

When my Inquisitor asked Bull about who Krem was and how his sexual identity worked, I always felt that Bull's responses to my Inquisitor were overly aggressive, as if he thought my inquisitor was against Krem by virtue of the questions he was asking. And you might say: "but you as the player already know all about Transgenderism, so why would you ask about it?".
Yes, I do know a lot about transgenderism in real life, but my inquisitor doesn't, this is the first time he has ever seen someone like Krem and he was just curious.

I'm not against the fact that Dragon Age: Inquisition is a very politically correct game, what I'm against is the fact that whenever the player tries to question some of that correctness, the game proceeds to bash your head in as if you are some raging homophobe.

It was so bad for me that on subsequent playthroughs, I stopped recruiting Iron Bull altogether due to the fact that I hate his character greatly now. It might seem like a bit much, but I was so aggravated by the way this was handled, Iron Bull was needlessly aggressive towards my inquisitor for simply asking a question. It's a shame considering that before Inquisition came out, I thought that Iron Bull would be one of my favorite characters, but now I have nothing but contempt for him.

And before you say anything, know that I'm gay and in no way against transgender people, I just wish that this was handled in a more sensible, less aggressive way.

My guess is the game assumes you are old enough to have known about them. They existed and your character should know what types of questions are inappropriate. For example questions that shouldn't be asked:

 

Leiana and the Divine Justine relationship

Dorian and Felix relationship

 

If it seems too personal don't ask.

 

A romanced Iron Bull still serving the Qun will turn on you. It is a cultural thing. Remember sex in the Qun is more like a service. His relationship to the Qun and his Chargers are more important. If you save the Chargers, then he has to leave the Qun. That is the only way he doesn't turn on you, because he left the Qun. 

[AshenEndymion]

No, he's just saying the logic follows that a warrior can't be female. It's the same as saying, "You are pregnant, therefore it follows that you can't be a man", in response to a woman who says, "I am pregnant, and I am a man". The bottom line is that Sten is saying warriors cannot be women. This does not mean the Qun accepts transgenders.

 

I didn't say he said that specifically, just that this was his point.

 

Sten acknowledges both, but he takes issue with her being a warrior. He tells her that women are priests, artisans, or farmers, they do not fight. He clearly takes issue with her being a warrior, not being a woman.

 

Her being a woman is a physical fact. No one can deny that. The behavior of going into battle and fighting as a warrior are behaviors. Behaviors can be changed through reeducation.

 

The Qun is crystal clear on that.
 

 

But Sten doesn't acknowledge both.

 

Referenced on page 3 of this thread:

Warden: "You think they can't be women, because women don't fight?"

Sten: "Exactly."

Warden: "I'm a woman and I'm fighting."

Sten: "One of those things can't be true."

 

That sequence, proves that Sten believes F!Warden to be a man, contrary to what F!Warden says.  Not least because Sten has already stated that F!Warden is a warrior, via the whole "You are a Grey Warden" bit...

 

When Sten is speaking to Morrigan, Leliana, and Wynne, his line of inquiry revolves around why they are with the group, trying to fight -- because they are women and can't fight, so why are they trying.  When Sten is speaking to F!Warden, however, his line of inquiry revolves around how she is fighting, but claims to be a woman.  And since women can't fight, but F!Warden clearly can, why is F!Warden claiming to be a woman?

 

The key is how Sten begins the conversation.  He's asking Morrigan, Leliana, and Wynne why they are here.  Why are they trying to fight when they are clearly women.  F!Warden doesn't get the same question.  F!Warden is already acknowledged as a Grey Warden.  A warrior of renown.  So clearly, F!Warden is a man.  Thus the conversation begins with "I don't understand, you look like a woman."

 

It should be noted that Sten never admits, or accepts, that F!Warden is a woman.  Nor does he ever admit, or accept, that Morrigan, Leliana, or Wynne can fight...  That alone should put forth the idea that the Qun could accept a woman can fight... So long as she had exceptional skill, and admitted to being a man.

[Dai Grepher]

But Sten doesn't acknowledge both.

 

Referenced on page 3 of this thread:

Warden: "You think they can't be women, because women don't fight?"

Sten: "Exactly."

Warden: "I'm a woman and I'm fighting."

Sten: "One of those things can't be true."

 

That sequence, proves that Sten believes F!Warden to be a man, contrary to what F!Warden says.  Not least because Sten has already stated that F!Warden is a warrior, via the whole "You are a Grey Warden" bit...

 

When Sten is speaking to Morrigan, Leliana, and Wynne, his line of inquiry revolves around why they are with the group, trying to fight -- because they are women and can't fight, so why are they trying.  When Sten is speaking to F!Warden, however, his line of inquiry revolves around how she is fighting, but claims to be a woman.  And since women can't fight, but F!Warden clearly can, why is F!Warden claiming to be a woman?

 

The key is how Sten begins the conversation.  He's asking Morrigan, Leliana, and Wynne why they are here.  Why are they trying to fight when they are clearly women.  F!Warden doesn't get the same question.  F!Warden is already acknowledged as a Grey Warden.  A warrior of renown.  So clearly, F!Warden is a man.  Thus the conversation begins with "I don't understand, you look like a woman."

 

It should be noted that Sten never admits, or accepts, that F!Warden is a woman.  Nor does he ever admit, or accept, that Morrigan, Leliana, or Wynne can fight...  That alone should put forth the idea that the Qun could accept a woman can fight... So long as she had exceptional skill, and admitted to being a man.

 

He does acknowledge both, but he says one is wrong. If he did not acknowledge both then there would have been no issue.

 

Again, that's like saying, "You think they can't be men because men can't get pregnant?"

 

Saying, "One of those things can't be true" is proof that he considers either one possible. But at no point did he consider the F!Warden to be a man.

 

"Warrior" is not synonymous with "man" though. That's where you're making your mistake.

 

The line of questioning is no different except how it is phrased. It carries the same intent however, and the same "lesson". At no time does Sten recognize the F!Warden as a man. He never asks the F!Warden if she is a man. He never calls her one. He never says she should change her appearance to look like one. His solution to the "paradox" is that she stop acting like a warrior.

 

At best, all you can say here is that Sten believes being a warrior makes a woman not a woman. Like saying a coldblooded murderer isn't human. But this still wouldn't make that woman a man. Sten clearly explains that women cannot be men.

 

And this is the crux of the argument. Whatever Sten thinks of the F!Warden, he clearly states that women cannot become men, just as they cannot live on the moon.

 

Lastly, Sten's rationale is this: A warrior cannot be a woman. Therefore "logic" dictates that the F!Warden can't possibly be a woman. But she looks like a woman. She is a woman. Therefore she cannot be a warrior. She must become a priest, artisan, farmer, etc. She cannot fight. She cannot become a warrior because she cannot become a man. Women cannot become men.

 

But Sten will eventually accept that the F!Warden is a female warrior because he dismisses it as a characteristic of being a Grey Warden. It's a special case that he had not considered. I think I remember him saying this at some point. But in either case, if you answer him in a specific way during that dialog exchange, "They wish to be women who fight", he will say, "Do they? We'll see." So he is open to that possibility, even if he doubts it possible.
 

[AshenEndymion]

He does acknowledge both, but he says one is wrong. If he did not acknowledge both then there would have been no issue.

 

Again, that's like saying, "You think they can't be men because men can't get pregnant?"

 

Saying, "One of those things can't be true" is proof that he considers either one possible. But at no point did he consider the F!Warden to be a man.

 

"Warrior" is not synonymous with "man" though. That's where you're making your mistake.

 

The line of questioning is no different except how it is phrased. It carries the same intent however, and the same "lesson". At no time does Sten recognize the F!Warden as a man. He never asks the F!Warden if she is a man. He never calls her one. He never says she should change her appearance to look like one. His solution to the "paradox" is that she stop acting like a warrior.

 

At best, all you can say here is that Sten believes being a warrior makes a woman not a woman. Like saying a coldblooded murderer isn't human. But this still wouldn't make that woman a man. Sten clearly explains that women cannot be men.

 

And this is the crux of the argument. Whatever Sten thinks of the F!Warden, he clearly states that women cannot become men, just as they cannot live on the moon.

 

Lastly, Sten's rationale is this: A warrior cannot be a woman. Therefore "logic" dictates that the F!Warden can't possibly be a woman. But she looks like a woman. She is a woman. Therefore she cannot be a warrior. She must become a priest, artisan, farmer, etc. She cannot fight. She cannot become a warrior because she cannot become a man. Women cannot become men.

 

But Sten will eventually accept that the F!Warden is a female warrior because he dismisses it as a characteristic of being a Grey Warden. It's a special case that he had not considered. I think I remember him saying this at some point. But in either case, if you answer him in a specific way during that dialog exchange, "They wish to be women who fight", he will say, "Do they? We'll see." So he is open to that possibility, even if he doubts it possible.
 

 

Again, Sten does not acknowledge both.  Ever.  Sten acknowledges that F!Warden is a warrior.  Sten never acknowledges F!Warden to be a woman.  He explicitly states that F!Warden cannot be a woman because she is a warrior.

 

In the Qun, "warrior" is synonymous with "man".  Your mistake is failing to recognize that.

 

I agree, the "lesson" is the same.  But you're incorrect on what the "lesson" is.  At no time does Sten recognize F!Warden to be a woman.  He never asks her if she's a woman.  He never calls her one.  He calls her a warrior.  His solution to the "paradox" is for the Warden "to stop pretending to be what she is not":  And to Sten's mind, F!Warden is not a woman(because, again, F!Warden is a warrior).

 

The exchange is "They don't wish to be men, they wish to be women who fight." Sten's response is "Do they? We'll see."  To claim that Sten is open to the idea that women wish to be women who fight(or even that women can fight), is to claim that Sten is open to the idea that people can choose what they wish to do in life because he responds to that statement by the Warden in the same way: "Can they? We'll see."  Sten isn't open to either possibility because neither is actually possible, so why entertain the ideas...  Sten is just accepting that you fail to see the truth of things, and ending the line of dialogue as swiftly, and as diplomatically, as possible.  Because he's not a priest, and he isn't required to educate you.

[Dai Grepher]

Again, Sten does not acknowledge both.  Ever.  Sten acknowledges that F!Warden is a warrior.  Sten never acknowledges F!Warden to be a woman.  He explicitly states that F!Warden cannot be a woman because she is a warrior.

 

In the Qun, "warrior" is synonymous with "man".  Your mistake is failing to recognize that.

 

I agree, the "lesson" is the same.  But you're incorrect on what the "lesson" is.  At no time does Sten recognize F!Warden to be a woman.  He never asks her if she's a woman.  He never calls her one.  He calls her a warrior.  His solution to the "paradox" is for the Warden "to stop pretending to be what she is not":  And to Sten's mind, F!Warden is not a woman(because, again, F!Warden is a warrior).

 

The exchange is "They don't wish to be men, they wish to be women who fight." Sten's response is "Do they? We'll see."  To claim that Sten is open to the idea that women wish to be women who fight(or even that women can fight), is to claim that Sten is open to the idea that people can choose what they wish to do in life because he responds to that statement by the Warden in the same way: "Can they? We'll see."  Sten isn't open to either possibility because neither is actually possible, so why entertain the ideas...  Sten is just accepting that you fail to see the truth of things, and ending the line of dialogue as swiftly, and as diplomatically, as possible.  Because he's not a priest, and he isn't required to educate you.

 

No he doesn't. He says "it follows" that she can't be a woman. That's not the same as saying she cannot be a woman because she is a warrior. He's just stating the Qun's "logic" of it. That isn't definitive.

 

But not all men are warriors. So it isn't synonymous with "man". It's just a role that only a man can fill under the Qun.

 

What you're writing is nonsense. You think Sten believes the F!Warden is not a woman even though she is a woman in appearance, biology, and identity. That contradicts even what your side thinks about The Iron Bull's baseless claims about aqun-athlok.

 

He isn't required, but that doesn't stop him from trying. Saying "We'll see" means he's willing to give the F!Warden's claim a chance to prove itself true.

[AshenEndymion]

No he doesn't. He says "it follows" that she can't be a woman. That's not the same as saying she cannot be a woman because she is a warrior. He's just stating the Qun's "logic" of it. That isn't definitive.

 

But not all men are warriors. So it isn't synonymous with "man". It's just a role that only a man can fill under the Qun.

 

What you're writing is nonsense. You think Sten believes the F!Warden is not a woman even though she is a woman in appearance, biology, and identity. That contradicts even what your side thinks about The Iron Bull's baseless claims about aqun-athlok.

 

He isn't required, but that doesn't stop him from trying. Saying "We'll see" means he's willing to give the F!Warden's claim a chance to prove itself true.

 

Of course it is definitive.  The Qun's logic is infallible.  Just ask Sten, Arishok, or any other Qunari we've come across.  If the Qun's logic dictates one is something, then one is that thing.  Likewise if Qun logic dictates one is not something, then one is not that thing.

 

Name a warrior, the Qun recognizes, that is not a man.  The day you do that, "warrior" ceases to be synonymous with "man" in the Qun.

 

Sten believes the F!Warden is not a woman because F!Warden is a warrior.  What part of that does not make sense?  The issue really isn't about appearance or biology.  It's about identity.  If the Warden contradicted the idea that they were a warrior(like Morrigan, Leliana, and Wynne do by being incapable of fighting), there would only be the issue of "why are you here? You should be a priest, farming, or running a shop...".  But, again, it's accepted that F!Warden is a warrior.  That she continues to claim to be a woman, when she clearly can't be, is the issue.  Why would F!Warden wish to be anything other than what she is:  A warrior.  As I said earlier, if F!Warden had responded to the initial statement with "I do look like a woman, but I'm not", the conversation would have been over, because Sten would have no need to tell F!Warden that her reply was accurate...

 

Debatable(as to whether or not Sten tries). Sten answers questions.  When you fail to grasp the truth, he reiterates the truth.  When you again fail to grasp the truth, he ceases explanation because you are incapable of understanding, and he is wasting his time.  When Sten says "We'll see", he's telling F!Warden that the Qun will be proven accurate, as it always has been, and always will be.