29 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

They could have total control but it required constant exposure to orbs/the Leviathans and disruption gave the mind back fully. Indoctrination seeps into the subject permanently. The Reapers only leave subjects braindead/wrecked because it serves them.

 

Indoctrination is much more efficient.

 

The asteroid facility had Leviathans directly controlling everyone (not fully, but partially). A Reaper Indoctrinated person doesn't require that level of attention.

 

You could have a galaxy enthralled by Leviathans only if orbs were everywhere, around every person, and with Leviathans in every sector. You could have a galaxy indoctrinated by Reapers just through implantation... and that's it. Now they're controlled for as long as they exist.

 

All Leviathans might have the edge over is that they 'fit' with organic minds better that they may have the special ability to just be in a place and immediately rule over minds. I think they didn't do that to Shep's squad in the 3rd mission not because they couldn't, but because when it came down to it, Shepard was an interesting subject, the Reapers were more dangerous, and they were only trying to warn Shepard away (albeit with a callousness towards human life before that).

 

Enthrallment is being directly controlled. When the miners woke up, I'm 100% certain they forgot (or rather, they never knew) the science that they were doing. An indoctrinated person would instead take on that knowledge and have it part of them - it is compelling, and furthers the subject's awe in what the Reapers may know and what level they may operate on.

 

 

TLDR; Enthrallment may only be superior in a specific way, if at all. Otherwise Indoctrination in its many forms may be very superior technology. Even the Leviathans seem to claim that.

 

 

Indoctrination is more subtle yes. But is also ends with them being brain dead. So to speak.  It isn't superior unless you plan to use up your pawns quickly. This is even more so evident when it is clearly stated that quick indoctrination breaks the person's mind quicker.  As shown with Cerberus agents in the Reaper IFF mission. That is why every husk, every brute, every banshee is connected to the reaper signal so they can control them. Because their minds are so far gone from indoctrination effect they can't function any other way.

[Dantriges]

You could have a galaxy enthralled by Leviathans only if orbs were everywhere, around every person, and with Leviathans in every sector. You could have a galaxy indoctrinated by Reapers just through implantation... and that's it. Now they're controlled for as long as they exist.

One orb was enough for the facility and seems that orbs are enough for control, no need to hang out in that specific sector or do we have Leviathans being part of the wildlife on Bekenstein, "close" to the Citadel?
 

Enthrallment is being directly controlled. When the miners woke up, I'm 100% certain they forgot (or rather, they never knew) the science that they were doing. An indoctrinated person would instead take on that knowledge and have it part of them - it is compelling, and furthers the subject's awe in what the Reapers may know and what level they may operate on.

 
So in your opinion, the Leviathans were all playing around being humans, turians, asari etc? Could be, I don´t see the point but well...

That indoctrination is able to imprint knowledge is speculation. Yeah the voices in their head can tell the subject something but that´s another form of talking.
 

TLDR; Enthrallment may only be superior in a specific way, if at all. Otherwise Indoctrination in its many forms may be very superior technology. Even the Leviathans seem to claim that.

The Leviathans said that indoctrination was based on their mind control, they never said it´s superior. It actually seems that they developed it a bit further, too. The Reapers knew what they were after, when they came to Despoina and they and their pawns got totally toasted.

Anyways I said superior or similar, but it seems that it´s not poor man´s second grade mind control.

[themikefest]

Shepard is able to ask about the crucible, but not ask about the catalyst.

[SwobyJ]

Good points everyone.

[planehazza]

Leviathan suffered from politician syndrome. The big head. Everything they say and do is right no matter what. One of them thought it would be a good idea to create a thing, known as the intelligence, to oversee the synthetic and organic problem. They gave the thing the power to find a solution at any cost.  Yeah. Look how well that worked. Stupid is that stupid does. Leviathan wakes up one morning and realizes its species is being slaughtered. Before it could react, its thrown into a giant blender. They now float around inside the first reaper called Harbinger.

 

After a while, the intelligence gets bored waiting for civilizations to become advanced enough to harvest that it ordered its reapers to build the relay network to make the cycles shorter and more efficient. So instead of the cycles taking however long, they now take 50 000 years having civilizations follow the path that the thing wants them to follow

 

Along comes the crucible. Crucible say hello to the intelligence that is now calling itself catalyst. The catalyst, formerly known as the intelligence, realizes what its been doing all this time doesn't work. The catalyst sees an organic that can choose one of the solutions, but the thing wants the organic to pick synthesis. It tells the organic that it can choose destroy it and its toys, but says it won't solve the problem because the chaos will return. The created will rebel against its creator. It mentions the organic can control its toys. It doesn't want to be replaced, but it would have to accept it. It tells the organic that synthesis is the final evolution of all life. Its the ideal solution.

 

Brilliant summary, thanks.