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Dragon Age Orgins and Dragon Age 2 is a better game than Inquistion.


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#151
AnUnculturedLittlePotato

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Ah yes, the cat... with the stupid puzzle. Imshael was so much better. The cackling evil whatever. 'Kitty' was good for the loot. Imshael was fun, had a sense of humor (twisted) and just plain evil and revelling in it. I still want to know what he asked for in exchange for taking the 'red' out. Not so much about 'Kitty'.
 

I always assumed rape honestly. "Consent or die" or w/e.

 

You play the role of Inquisitor the very moment you wake up, and walk outside of Haven where a bunch of people are cheering for you. You start taking the responsibility of being the Inquisitor.

 

Yes I heard what the Hunter said, and to be honest with you it's all cowardice attempt to avoid all responsibility that he had when it comes to putting his share onto the table.

"There's magical weirdness and murderous demons! I don't want to die! Can you help?"
"No you can fight people who can shoot lightning from their fingers or you can die."

Yeah ok.

1.) I've seem you use the word "retarded" in the same context before and I am curious as to why you are using this word since it's application is commonly misinterpreted though I suppose it may depend upon which definition you are defining it by.

 

If you are using it to indicate that you consider the hero in question to be delayed or slow in some capacity then could you kindly provide an example since I consider the game to provide plenty of oppertunity for your character to appear the opposite.

 

If you are using it in one of it's urban definition to indicate a hero type you consider tiring or foolish then it might be better to use stupid, foolish or tiring since retarded has several definition and the most common of the definitions are not much applicable in this context.

 

2.) How is that so different In Dragon Age: Origins; you do the very same thing there by ultimately always defeating the Archdemon and preventing Fereldan from falling to the Blight?  
 

Go outside.

 

You're in the middle of a huge battle and you're supposed to get an info dump about how everything has come together? Considering all there is in the Arbor Wilds is running through the forest trying to get to the Temple, not a lot of place to put this information in another format. And the Nemesis quest DOES have a large impact.

Plus the fact that the side quests can be done before or after Arbor Wilds, plus all the other variables that are being juggled... How would you deal with it, pray tell?

Have each zones main quest be in the cut scene, as opposed to just getting everyone normally?

 

The little fearlings appear in different forms to people, but even they default to "spider" when the person doesn't fear anything, like Hawke and the Inquisitor.

Oddly enough I'm afraid of spiders so that was rather convenient.


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#152
Abyss108

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My opinion is that both games are great. My objective Origins is the stronger game between two great games. Or would you actually like to counter my previous points with an observation of your own rather than just say that "I liked things about Inquisition and therefore, I'm right." If it sounds like I'm patronizing you, that's because you somewhat annoy me. Believe it or not, there is an unbiased criteria with which one can judge a game's quality when compared to another game and find that one game is stronger than the other.

 

I understand the need for not always wanting to throw dark stuff in your face and yes, subtext and so on can be effective. But when dealing with a story with a primarily visual medium, it's more effective to show things than to talk about it or better yet, show and tell. Inquisition leaned too heavily on the "tell" aspect of "show and tell" and even the "show" aspect is watered down which minimizes the inherent effect that Inquisition's moments possessed. And for a game that's supposed to be about "saving the world from itself" or "restoring order to a world in chaos", the conflict was overall way too clean considering everything that's at play. It's not because this stuff isn't happening, it's because the game was intrinsically designed to distance the player from the grit and essence of darkness.

 

Do we actually tackle the mage-templar conflict and it's dilemnas? No. We side-step the situation by only engaging with one faction and leaving the other to the wolves. Even the stuff in the Hinterlands was described as conflicts between radical mages and templars rather divisions of the main factions.

 

The Breach? Closed within the first third of the game without much effort.

 

 

The Warden sacrifices? The two scenes that we see are too quick and swift to let that moment and what it means truly sink in. Contrast that with the Joining in Origins where there is a clear tension and weight to the deaths of Daveth and Jory. We see Duncan kill Jory with regret, we see Jory's face as he dies and blood flow from his body after he's fallen. We also see Daveth struggle against the Joining Juice even as Duncan apologizes for his inevitable death.

 

In contrast; both Duncan and Leandra personally met and interacted with the Warden and this created a more substantial bond. Therefore, when we see Duncan and Leandra die, there's actual room to be sad both because we knew who they were; had a chance to like them; and saw them die in undeservingly sad and horrific manners.

 

Not convinced? Take Justinia for instance. The game spends a lot of time trying to make her death into this big sad event and while this is true in-universe, neither the player nor the pc ever got to meet or know the woman. This could have been averted by putting in the Conclave meeting as an prologue and actually letting the player judge for themselves if Justinia is someone significant or someone worth mourning. Instead, we have to be told that Justinia was a great woman and that we should feel bad that she's dead.

 

It's this difference in presentation, content and atmosphere which makes Origins overall darker and stronger for being unapologetic for that darkness whereas Inquisition almost seems like it wants to hurry past it.

 

Considering that Origins actually lets you kill off your companions; have love triangles that can end badly; or even kill of your main hero, then it's pretty clear that Origins is less scared than Inquisition where this is greatly lacking. Trespasser not counting as much since it's a dlc that was added on later as opposed to Awakening where you could leave either an entire city or your own keep along with half of your companions to die and your companion may even turn on you depending on the choice that you make concerning the Architect's offer.

 

A third option is sometimes possible and Origins isn't less for having it at times as opposed to DA2 where the logical third or fourth option was cut out for the sake of pointless drama (siblings and Last Straw choice for instance). There were also missions where there was no third option like Orzammar; Anvil of the Void; Does Loghain live or die?; Take the Dark Ritual or not?; or if you don't take the DR then do you sacrifice yourself or send Alistair/Loghain to their deaths? And speaking of options, this plays into my point about role-play options because Origins isn't afraid of letting you be evil as opposed to Inquisition where you could only be a neutral jerk at worst with the moral spectrum of evil being completely omitted. Even letting Celene die isn't universally evil since neither she nor Gaspard have their hands clean of innocent blood or abuse of power.

 

There can be different types of antagonists and the darkspawn worked for what they were in Origins and Loghain worked even better. Corypheus? As many have pointed out before, he spends most of the game getting beaten by the Inquisitor and apart from Haven, there's never a "darkest hour" moment where Cory has the upper hand on the Inquisition and this is more disappointing considering all of the potential and the lore weight behind Cory's very existence.

 

Like Inquisition for the reasons that you want and if you personally prefer it over the other games fine. But don't act like any observation that doesn't put the game on a pedestal is just a biased opinion. I'm perfectly willing to admit that Inquisition is an objectively stronger game than Origins once the case can be presented and proven to me. Until then, I'm convinced that Origins is the inherently and objectively stronger game in the dragon age series. And that's even admitting that I like all of the games in the series. Some are just better than others. That's a fact.

 

If you actually read what I posted, I never said anything along the lines of "I liked things about Inquisition and therefore, I'm right.", unlike you who is claiming Origins is better because you personally preferred the way it handled things. I specifically posted that it was my opinion that Inquisition was better, just like it was your opinion that Origins was better. 

 

I listed several things you said were objectively better in Origins and explained how they worked better for me in Inquisition. You might have enjoyed the characters better - I found them boring. You might have preferred the darkness to be more in your face - I found it laughable in how hard it was trying. 

 

Origins is a great game, and there's nothing wrong if you prefer the way things were handled there. But it's not an objective fact, it's your personal opinion.


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#153
leaguer of one

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Fight a demon is nothing special,also the Inq run away from the nightmare demon rather than defeated him,you didn't defeat the demons you closed the breach
Corypheus  is ancient as the Architect, both are powerful and dangerous the Warden defeated the architect who was in terms of power comparable to Corypheus,their abilities were different but both were dangerous.
Against the Architect and the disciples the quiz would have been probably infected before to even understand what was happening.
2 dragons that were incredibly weak compared to what you encounter in the franchise,a fake archdemon and a guardian or a woman (depend on choice) that would have been easily defeated by the warden,didn't took long to defeat Morrigan in WH 1 single attack.
If so i find Hakkon to be more powerful than these dragons.
There are many ancient temples in Thedas nothing is preventing the Warden to find them off-screen but the character simply doesn't care.
The 2 "gods" that the Inq met defeated the protagonist easly,one by mind controlling the protagonist or her daughter (she gave you a magic  slap that put you on the ground) the other tricked and used the Inquisitor.
While the Warden defeated two ancient beings,and was more powerful than each of the companions.
i will only accept Solas as a challenger
 

 

1. It was the most powerful demon faced so far and it had to be banished to be defeated and for the rift to close.

2.As for the architect. It not as powerful as Cory. No where near as powerful. It was almost killed by a single ghoul Warden in the calling,s o no.

3.And Decent show what the Quis can do ageinst darkspawn. They had no issues.

4. With the dragons that's called gameplay/story segregation. That like saying Cory is weaker because his boss fight in dai is easier then the on in legacy. Gameplay is not made to line up with story.

 

5.Hakkon is a god dragon. Of course he is more powerful. 

6. As the temple. It's not about them find ancient temples, if fact the warden already been to many, it's about finding ancient elves which is near impossible.

7.No you can't say that with Flemeth and the warden. This is a character that can throw the fight just because it's needed. You only have conflict with Flemeth when you meet her in the fade, where she is much more powerful then she was when she meet the warden. You can't compare it at all.

And the old god is not a true god.



#154
leaguer of one

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Not all of us regard that as a positive. For some of us, that's a mark against DAI.

Which is subjective.



#155
ShadowLordXII

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If you actually read what I posted, I never said anything along the lines of "I liked things about Inquisition and therefore, I'm right.", unlike you who is claiming Origins is better because you personally preferred the way it handled things. I specifically posted that it was my opinion that Inquisition was better, just like it was your opinion that Origins was better. 

 

I listed several things you said were objectively better in Origins and explained how they worked better for me in Inquisition. You might have enjoyed the characters better - I found them boring. You might have preferred the darkness to be more in your face - I found it laughable in how hard it was trying. 

 

Origins is a great game, and there's nothing wrong if you prefer the way things were handled there. But it's not an objective fact, it's your personal opinion.

 

Again, you're free to personally like Inquisition better than Origins.

 

It's not going to change which game is inherently stronger. Unless you want to actually try and make the case that Inquisition is an inherently better game than Origins rather than just wave off my observations about Origin's objective qualities and content as "opinion". In which case, this discussion doesn't have much more point to it.



#156
correctamundo

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Again, you're free to personally like Inquisition better than Origins.

 

It's not going to change which game is inherently stronger. Unless you want to actually try and make the case that Inquisition is an inherently better game than Origins rather than just wave off my observations about Origin's objective qualities and content as "opinion". In which case, this discussion doesn't have much more point to it.

 

At least your lack understanding pertaining to the concept of subjectivity/objectivity is somewhat entertaining. :D


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#157
Abyss108

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Again, you're free to personally like Inquisition better than Origins.

 

It's not going to change which game is inherently stronger. Unless you want to actually try and make the case that Inquisition is an inherently better game than Origins rather than just wave off my observations about Origin's objective qualities and content as "opinion". In which case, this discussion doesn't have much more point to it.

 

I'm not making the case that Inquisition is inherently better than Origins. 

 

I'm making the case that you are passing your own opinions off as objective fact. If you are just going to go "Nope, I enjoyed these features better, thus they are objectively better, and everyone who enjoyed the way Inquisition handled it is objectively enjoying things wrong" you are right, this isn't going to go anywhere.


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#158
AnUnculturedLittlePotato

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Again, you're free to personally like Inquisition better than Origins.

 

It's not going to change which game is inherently stronger. Unless you want to actually try and make the case that Inquisition is an inherently better game than Origins rather than just wave off my observations about Origin's objective qualities and content as "opinion". In which case, this discussion doesn't have much more point to it.

Art is never objective.


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#159
leaguer of one

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My opinion is that both games are great. My objective Origins is the stronger game between two great games. Or would you actually like to counter my previous points with an observation of your own rather than just say that "I liked things about Inquisition and therefore, I'm right." If it sounds like I'm patronizing you, that's because you somewhat annoy me. Believe it or not, there is an unbiased criteria with which one can judge a game's quality when compared to another game and find that one game is stronger than the other.

 

I understand the need for not always wanting to throw dark stuff in your face and yes, subtext and so on can be effective. But when dealing with a story with a primarily visual medium, it's more effective to show things than to talk about it or better yet, show and tell. Inquisition leaned too heavily on the "tell" aspect of "show and tell" and even the "show" aspect is watered down which minimizes the inherent effect that Inquisition's moments possessed. And for a game that's supposed to be about "saving the world from itself" or "restoring order to a world in chaos", the conflict was overall way too clean considering everything that's at play. It's not because this stuff isn't happening, it's because the game was intrinsically designed to distance the player from the grit and essence of darkness.

 

Do we actually tackle the mage-templar conflict and it's dilemnas? No. We side-step the situation by only engaging with one faction and leaving the other to the wolves. Even the stuff in the Hinterlands was described as conflicts between radical mages and templars rather divisions of the main factions.

 

The Breach? Closed within the first third of the game without much effort.

 

 

The Warden sacrifices? The two scenes that we see are too quick and swift to let that moment and what it means truly sink in. Contrast that with the Joining in Origins where there is a clear tension and weight to the deaths of Daveth and Jory. We see Duncan kill Jory with regret, we see Jory's face as he dies and blood flow from his body after he's fallen. We also see Daveth struggle against the Joining Juice even as Duncan apologizes for his inevitable death.

 

In contrast; both Duncan and Leandra personally met and interacted with the Warden and this created a more substantial bond. Therefore, when we see Duncan and Leandra die, there's actual room to be sad both because we knew who they were; had a chance to like them; and saw them die in undeservingly sad and horrific manners.

 

Not convinced? Take Justinia for instance. The game spends a lot of time trying to make her death into this big sad event and while this is true in-universe, neither the player nor the pc ever got to meet or know the woman. This could have been averted by putting in the Conclave meeting as an prologue and actually letting the player judge for themselves if Justinia is someone significant or someone worth mourning. Instead, we have to be told that Justinia was a great woman and that we should feel bad that she's dead.

 

It's this difference in presentation, content and atmosphere which makes Origins overall darker and stronger for being unapologetic for that darkness whereas Inquisition almost seems like it wants to hurry past it.

 

Considering that Origins actually lets you kill off your companions; have love triangles that can end badly; or even kill of your main hero, then it's pretty clear that Origins is less scared than Inquisition where this is greatly lacking. Trespasser not counting as much since it's a dlc that was added on later as opposed to Awakening where you could leave either an entire city or your own keep along with half of your companions to die and your companion may even turn on you depending on the choice that you make concerning the Architect's offer.

 

A third option is sometimes possible and Origins isn't less for having it at times as opposed to DA2 where the logical third or fourth option was cut out for the sake of pointless drama (siblings and Last Straw choice for instance). There were also missions where there was no third option like Orzammar; Anvil of the Void; Does Loghain live or die?; Take the Dark Ritual or not?; or if you don't take the DR then do you sacrifice yourself or send Alistair/Loghain to their deaths? And speaking of options, this plays into my point about role-play options because Origins isn't afraid of letting you be evil as opposed to Inquisition where you could only be a neutral jerk at worst with the moral spectrum of evil being completely omitted. Even letting Celene die isn't universally evil since neither she nor Gaspard have their hands clean of innocent blood or abuse of power.

 

There can be different types of antagonists and the darkspawn worked for what they were in Origins and Loghain worked even better. Corypheus? As many have pointed out before, he spends most of the game getting beaten by the Inquisitor and apart from Haven, there's never a "darkest hour" moment where Cory has the upper hand on the Inquisition and this is more disappointing considering all of the potential and the lore weight behind Cory's very existence.

 

Like Inquisition for the reasons that you want and if you personally prefer it over the other games fine. But don't act like any observation that doesn't put the game on a pedestal is just a biased opinion. I'm perfectly willing to admit that Inquisition is an objectively stronger game than Origins once the case can be presented and proven to me. Until then, I'm convinced that Origins is the inherently and objectively stronger game in the dragon age series. And that's even admitting that I like all of the games in the series. Some are just better than others. That's a fact.

1. For one thing It's DAO the does more showing then telling. In dao you hear about the civil war, the unrest of citizens of fereldin, and the dark spawn horde devestating the south. You see none of it. In fact if you read the book, dragon age: last flight you find that what the warden faced in dao was easy mode. And in dai you actually see the mage/templer war at it worst. We see how horrible the vinatori and red templers get and them being slavers. We see how red lyrium is destroying the country side. We even see the results of the blight socially in one of the towns in dai,

 

2.And with the mage/templer war it was never about picking a side. It was about bringing order to the conflict and stopping it. It was conflict of an unwinable war that was doomed to get worse with no side having anything left after it ended. No one would of been the clear victor at the end. It clear you missed the point of it. It was not about showing a victor, it was show how bad each side can get.

 

3. Yes, the breached was close. That does not mean the conflict is not over. The issue is that it can open up again.

 

4.We don't need the scarific to drag on. It has impact enough, more so if the player knew that warden. This is subjective.

And i was not sad when Duncan died.

 

5.Justina is a character that you meet backwards. The impact of her character is build for the character slowly over time. For everyone being sad about her and the pc not feeling anything, learning about her slowly, finding out she sacrifice herself for you in the fade and then learning what type of person she was in Liliana's mission.

 

6.The difference is just screen time for the character and interaction.

 

7.You can kill of companions in dai, have love triangles that end badly. It's just the pc does not die.

 

8.No third option? Like helping the mages or templers, alliing with them or conscripting with them. Concreting the wardens or banish them. Drink the well of sorrows or not. Taking Isheml's deal or not. We have that in dai.

 

9.The darkest hour was at Haven twice. Were he first invades it, then tries to end the world there. Also, the true villian is Solas.

 

Sorry but it just sounds like that you're bias.


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#160
leaguer of one

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Again, you're free to personally like Inquisition better than Origins.

 

It's not going to change which game is inherently stronger. Unless you want to actually try and make the case that Inquisition is an inherently better game than Origins rather than just wave off my observations about Origin's objective qualities and content as "opinion". In which case, this discussion doesn't have much more point to it.

You have not at one time made a case the dao is objectively better. you just used very bias points. And when people point it out you try to move the goal post.



#161
Darkly Tranquil

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Which is subjective.


YOU_DONT_SAY.png

#162
Xetykins

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Apparently, lots of people agree with you, OP.
Leaving this here. And god bless Barkspawn for making it to the finals.

https://www.dragonag...26&sf37155853=1

#163
Shechinah

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Apparently, lots of people agree with you, OP.
Leaving this here.

 

So because three companions from Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II won a subjective contest this means, in your opinion that those games are objectively better than Dragon Age: Inquisition including in non-companion-related aspects?   
 


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#164
abisha

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why this nonsense about ishmael. it's nothing special.

 

if you accept his offer some dude dies who nobody cares about. and he was talking about how much he was gonna kick his demon a$$.

why would anyone feel sorry for him anyway.

 

also the rewards is exactly the same if you let the demon go or not. basically just fluffy.

and O yea demon without virgins..... just wrong 



#165
AnUnculturedLittlePotato

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Apparently, lots of people agree with you, OP.
Leaving this here. And god bless Barkspawn for making it to the finals.

https://www.dragonag...26&sf37155853=1

That poll doesn't have loghain so it's inherently invalid.


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#166
Al Foley

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why this nonsense about ishmael. it's nothing special.

 

if you accept his offer some dude dies who nobody cares about. and he was talking about how much he was gonna kick his demon a$$.

why would anyone feel sorry for him anyway.

 

also the rewards is exactly the same if you let the demon go or not. basically just fluffy.

and O yea demon without virgins..... just wrong 

Michel is awesome.  Imshael is awesome.  (imo of course)



#167
AnUnculturedLittlePotato

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Michel is awesome.  Imshael is awesome.  (imo of course)

You probably read the masked empire.
I hear most of WIWH is actually interesting if you have.



#168
Xetykins

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So because three companions from Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II won a subjective contest this means, in your opinion that those games are objectively better than Dragon Age: Inquisition including in non-companion-related aspects?

Usually a reflection of people's reception of the game. If Hawke and the warden changed place, it probably would be hawke up there too. There are exceptions, as always that's why it's "usually". That does not make DAI a **** game btw.

#169
Shechinah

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Leaving this here. And god bless Barkspawn for making it to the finals.

https://www.dragonag...26&sf37155853=1

 

I'm not so surprised that Varric would win a spot and I would have voted for him since I dig his character. I especially like that he is a companion who asks about the player character's wellbeing even if they and he are strangers like in Inquisition during Haven's prologue. I hoped for someone like that in the next game.

 

I loved Morrigan and her friendship path in Dragon Age: Origins but I also loved Sten and his character so I am not sure who I would vote for out of the two. It's a tough call deciding on one out of the Origin cast with the exception of Alistair. I do like him and his character fine but not as much as I love the others so not enough to vote for him.

 

I had a bit of habit of naming Dog different names depending upon the character so once it was Harel and another it was Barksalot. I liked being able to do that.  
 



#170
Xetykins

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That poll doesn't have loghain so it's inherently invalid.


Psshh.. dog would pee on loghain's leg and run away with the crown :)

#171
Al Foley

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You probably read the masked empire.
I hear most of WIWH is actually interesting if you have.

*makes a long so so sort of voice*  What 'ruined' WEWH was Florianne/  ****** Florianne.  And the fact that we knew it was coming from five thousand miles away because who else could it have been?  WEWH would have been better with two or three more characters that obviouslly would NOT have been in the running for the leadership of the Empire and all had some sort of weird agenda.  

 

But on the face of it I still loved WEWH, its just probably my second least favorite main qquest posts INHSB



#172
Xetykins

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I'm not so surprised that Varric would win a spot and I would have voted for him since I dig his character especially that he is a companion who asks about the player character's wellbeing even if they and he are strangers like in Inquisition during Haven's prologue. 
 
I had a bit of habit of naming Dog different names depending upon the character so once it was Harel and another it was Barksalot. I liked being able to do that.


We are close :) mine is either Wootsit or Barkalot :)

#173
Shechinah

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We are close :) mine is either Wootsit or Barkalot :)

 

If we cannot have a pet character then I hope we retain the ability to name something in the next game like our weaponry or armor but that may just be my love for naming things.

 

I do think it adds a personal touch and I like that. It helped add to the thought that Dog was your dog even if the name only ever came up in text and it provided a bit of oppertunity for some unspoken roleplay like a headcanon about the name or simply having a serious and cynical character name their pet after some figure from a children's story or simply something fluffy.
 



#174
Al Foley

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If we cannot have a pet character then I hope we retain the ability to name something in the next game like our weaponry or armor but that may just be my love for naming things.

 

I do think it adds a personal touch and I like that. It helped add to the thought that Dog was your dog even if the name only ever came up in text and it provided a bit of oppertunity for some unspoken roleplay like a headcanon about the name or simply having a serious and cynical character name their pet after some hero from a story or simply something fluffy.
 

I had my Canon Inquisitor name her longbow 'Dumat's Wrath' and 'Dumat's Bane' to ****** Cory off. 



#175
AnUnculturedLittlePotato

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Psshh.. dog would pee on loghain's leg and run away with the crown :)

Considering loghain was a valid companion and a requirement for recruiting everyone I don't see why he's not there.