Dorian and his parents do not currently have a relationship that could be described as a loving, caring family situation, with mutual affection from both sides.
The thing is, though, it seems Dorian did used to have such a relationship with his father. At least at some point in the past Dorian looked up to him. But Halward expected Dorian to compromise his beliefs for the good of his family. Such a betrayal, especially one regarding blood magic, would make the wound all the deeper.
It IS bad if you're not attracted to that gender AT ALL and it IS bad if you wish to have a love relationship with someone of your gender but you can't, ever. And I highly doubt you can hook up with whomever you want, you have to keep up an appearance after all.
I guess if you don't mind being trapped in a loveless relationship you're never able to get out of, playing your role of the loving wife/husband until the day you die, have sex with someone you hate to produce heirs, maybe fall for someone you can never have a relationship with ... by all means... it's not so bad.
I sincerely hope that at least for some nobles in Tevinter it works out for the better and they actually like who they have to marry.
Wow you took that post... very seriously 
Also just because you might be "generally" attracted to a certain gender doesn't mean having sex with someone you dislike, even if they are of your preferred gender, is not as bad. I mean personally I'd rather have to get it on with a nice female person than with a vile male person, and I'm 0% attracted to ladies.
Also it's not really a "relationship" ... I'm assuming your actual relationship would be with your lover? I mean if it's supposedly okay to have a lover?
And also I don't think you're expected to "pretend" to love one another? But I may be wrong about all of this.
After all this sort of thing was routinely practiced at one point in time; the wealthier you were, the less you had to pretend and the more "okay" it was to have lovers (sometimes even for women). Just, you know, don't produce any bastards because they have a nasty habit of later trying to kill you.
I think what maybe isn't clear is whether or not openly having a mistress or paramour is okay in upper crust Tevinter society or not.
Exactly, Dorian is an adult who can make adult decisions for himself, which he did. He left. He left Tevinter where he was unhappy. Where his parents were the selfish ones, forcing their agenda on him, disregarding everything he wants.
So did he really run away from an entire country? That's also something I'm still not clear on (since I don't think it's explained in game). If that's true it really does make him seem very young. Which is okay; it's okay for characters to have flaws.
Generally speaking, yes. As long as you provide an heir and don't flaunt your affairs too much, nobles can carry on with others.
There's some social stigmas to avoid. Like Celene having an affair with Briala, an elf. Or Bastien having an affair with Vivienne, a mage. And married couples in Tevinter are expected to at least pretend to be happy with each other, even if they seek outside comfort.
Well Celene with Briala was clearly taboo, though I think because Briala was an elf, not a woman. I mean Celene wasn't even married and it was an issue. So it's clearly not an heir thing. But more of a social thing... a human lying with a disgusting elf.
Bastien and Vivienne ... ah, how much of a social stigma was that even? Didn't people know? The duchess knew and was totally fine with it. I can't imagine the rest of Orlesian court didn't know, the Game being what it is. In fact it seems to me that Bastien and Viv are clearly the actual couple. I'm not aware of any social stigma there, but I could be wrong.
And so that's true then? Married people in Tevinter are expected to pretend to be happy? Is that in WoT? And so I guess only straight people can marry in Tevinter? Or at least among upper class people?
It's pretty bad even if you are attracted to that gender and don't like the individual personally. Just ask Alistair if he does the Dark Ritual. And then pretend that everything is fine between you two? Dorian would hate that life even if he was straight. It's just not the kind of person he is. He's a man of passion. Being trapped in a loveless relationship would be hell for him regardless of the circumstances.
I had to do the ritual myself the first time; it was pretty revolting for me, especially since the game assumed my warden was totally into it
And agree, he'd hate that life even if he were straight, or even if he were married off to a man, but that man was a vile human being whom he despised. Would be the same response from him, I imagine.
Which is why I feel like "the situation" isn't about sexuality, but this one scene, this poorly written scene, got away from its writer a little bit and really did make it about sexuality, perhaps because the subject is near and dear to the writer's heart. Which is understandable, but that's the point where you hope the other writers and editors step in and do a bit of tweaking.
Also, again, if all an upper class Tevinter person is expected to do is produce heirs with one's spouse, then, again, I wouldn't define that as "trapped in a loveless relationship." Because you're not really trapped if you can then have a cordial platonic relationship with the spouse once the babies are produced and can then engage in a loving relationship with a mistress or paramour.
It's just, back here on earth upperclass men were understood to be philanderers, so there was no such thing as "trapped in a loveless marriage" for them. It was really mostly the women. And gay men, of course; unless you were the king of England you still had to keep your boyfriends under wrap lol The society was just very sexist and homophobic.
So if Tevinter is the same way, then we'd have to say they're homophobic as well, and potentially sexist, unless both partners are held to the same standard (which actually would not make a great deal of sense).
The thing is, though, it seems Dorian did used to have such a relationship with his father. At least at some point in the past Dorian looked up to him. But Halward expected Dorian to compromise his beliefs for the good of his family. Such a betrayal, especially one regarding blood magic, would make the wound all the deeper.
The Cole/Dorian banter gives a pretty good insight on how things are with his father I think.
You'd do that for your parents because you're on good terms with them.
I'm for example not on good terms (and that is as positive I can be about it) with my father and if he'd lose his house I'd laugh and laugh and laugh. Laugh some more after that even. Selfish? Absolutely not. He's done nothing to deserve my love.
Dorian and his parents do not currently have a relationship that could be described as a loving, caring family situation, with mutual affection from both sides.
Trust me I also have family members I would never go that extra mile for so I understand. But Dorian and his father did get along, quite well. Dorian simply rebelled against marrying and having children. That seemed to have caused a rift in their relationship which escalated to Halward attempting to use Blood magic. At this point, I think Dorian is right to say "Screw this and you and split." But before it reached that point, there didn't seem to much compromise nor understanding on Dorian's part. At least it didn't seem like it nor is it mentioned by Dorian.
@ CuriousArtemis, There is nothing written that married couples have to pretend to be happy or even stay together. IMO, I think that Dorian's parents for some odd reason decided to stay together, they didn't do a good job of pretending though so they seemed to have separate vacations according to Dorian. Dorian seems to have the idea that he has to pretend to be happy or at least to pretend to be something he isn't. There is really nothing indicating that this would be the case. But then again, I guess we'll find out if/when they ever make a game in Tevinter.
Trust me I also have family members I would never go that extra mile for so I understand. But Dorian and his father did get along, quite well. Dorian simply rebelled against marrying and having children. That seemed to have caused a rift in their relationship which escalated to Halward attempting to use Blood magic. At this point, I think Dorian is right to say "Screw this and you and split." But before it reached that point, there didn't seem to much compromise nor understanding on Dorian's part. At least it didn't seem like it nor is it mentioned by Dorian.
I forgot about the blood magic ritual his dad used to try to make him straight. Yeah that would be a decent enough reason to flee Although his dad has to be nuts because surely he can't think "making Dorian straight" (assuming that is possible with blood magic????? ugh) surely wouldn't make him any more amenable to marrying someone he disliked.
I doubt the Tevinter upper crust would encourage w/m affairs as it could lead to unwanted bastard offspring. Maybe that's also why they don't seem to mind if you get yourself off with someone of your own gender. No accidents.
But that's still not what Dorian wants.
He joined the Inquisition for more reasons other than the problems with his father but it certainly helped in the decision making.
I forgot about the blood magic ritual his dad used to try to make him straight. Yeah that would be a decent enough reason to flee
LOL!! IKR, I honestly think Halward has the brain of a baby pea because some of his decisions make no sense at all.
Stays in loveless marriage without producing back up plan kids.
Disowns only son
Thinks turning son straight = marriage.
I too wondered why they only ever had one kid. Maybe they thought they hit the Archon jackpot with a mage son on first try?
I too wondered why they only ever had one kid. Maybe they thought they hit the Archon jackpot with a mage son on first try?
The Archon jackpot!! I wonder if there are any prizes for that
And so that's true then? Married people in Tevinter are expected to pretend to be happy? Is that in WoT? And so I guess only straight people can marry in Tevinter? Or at least among upper class people?
This is mentionned in game more that once. That's the whole issue with Tevinter in general: they pretend. About everything.
This is basically a Magister life:
(and people wonder why Dorian does not want to play along....)
I forgot about the blood magic ritual his dad used to try to make him straight. Yeah that would be a decent enough reason to flee
From what I understand from the dialogue with Dorian after meeting his father, the ritual will more likely drain his willpower. He'll still be gay but he'll not fight against his father will anymore, leaving him "screaming in the inside"... This makes me sad, really.
It's pretty after school special, but the fact is that it still holds true for a lot of people. It's definitely not uncommon for an individual's sexuality/identity to create schisms with their family and cultures. Those emotions that causes are in part reflected in Dorian. He's a validation to those emotions. And for a lot of people that have to deal with rejection of a loved one because of something that's integral to their being, that's important.
There is pain. Then there is the agony of watching your parent's faces fall after telling them who you're attracted to. If Dorians romance helps ease that pain for some people, all the power to them.
For me, it was hard to do the quest, because it hit home pretty hard. A lot of the quests in Inquisition made me feel like an outside observer, but this one struck some chords in me that I thought I had dealt with and was very personal.
LOL!! IKR, I honestly think Halward has the brain of a baby pea because some of his decisions make no sense at all.
Stays in loveless marriage without producing back up plan kids.
Disowns only son
Thinks turning son straight = marriage.
It really does feel like Halward was written to make Dorian look more sympathetic with the type of backwards ass logic he displayed. He's more a plot device than an actual character.
It really does feel like Halward was written to make Dorian look more sympathetic with the type of backwards ass logic he displayed. He's more a plot device than an actual character.
It's kind of like having, oh, an abortion story line though. Kind of like that Star Trek episode where Deanna gets impregnated by that alien so the senior staff have a meeting over whether to abort it or not, and Deanna is just like, are you effing kidding me It's heavy-handed storytelling.
That said... I hope no Dorian fans have felt like they or their favorite character has been attacked in this thread, especially by me 
What can I say, I love to talk and I'm at work all day, so in between grading I come to the BSN and blah blah blah the time away.
That said... I hope no Dorian fans have felt like they or their favorite character has been attacked in this thread, especially by me
lol! Yeah, I love Dorian, he's pretty much my favorite DAI companion. If I could just have him, Cole, Solas, and Vivi in my party I would take them everywhere and be set. Just thinking about it makes me want to see if it's possible to mod the character select screen or something to take them all with me. Just like I had Varric, Seb, Isabela, and Fenris as my main party in DA2 with a mod. And I love characters with flaws, especially interesting ones and nothing is worse IMO than a character that is supposed to be a perfect Mary sue victimized prince/princess.
And in the character quest, all of that is eclipsed by the direction the conversation goes when you meet with Dorian's father.
So it's Dorian's fault that all you can think about is "gay gay gay" once it's mentioned? That's the dumbest excuse I've ever heard.
Before people keep spouting their bullshit about Dorian's sidequest being all about the gay:
"That's what this is about?"
"That's not all it's about."
"He taught me to hate blood magic. It's for the weakminded, those were his words. But what was the first thing he did when the heir wouldn't play pretend? He tried to change me. All for his ****** legacy."
Open your ears and quit lying, all you wanted to hear was queer.
It's weird that we wouldn't be having this discussion if Dorian was female or even presented as a bisexual option a la the DA2 companions....
Um... we wouldn't?
You only get that option if you are ineligible for a romance with him, I think. Dorian asks you if you're upset about the rumors directed at you because of him.
Dorian (after you ask "She didn't get to you, did she?"): It takes more than thinly veiled accusations [to bother me. And why should it?] Yours is the good opinion I care about, not hers. But I should ask. Do the rumors bother you?
Inquisitor: (paraphrase: Only on your behalf) "I wish they wouldn't disparage you."
If you're eligible for a romance, he says that rumor has it that they're lovers.
Ah, thanks. I guess I just forgot the line then, since that's the paraphrase I choose. Sort of embarrassing.
I'm actually appalled by how many people here think that children have to abide to their parents whims, no questions asked, no matter how much hurt, both emotionally and physically, it inflicts on the child.
It's bizarre.
It IS bad if you're not attracted to that gender AT ALL and it IS bad if you wish to have a love relationship with someone of your gender but you can't, ever. And I highly doubt you can hook up with whomever you want, you have to keep up an appearance after all.
I guess if you don't mind being trapped in a loveless relationship you're never able to get out of, playing your role of the loving wife/husband until the day you die, have sex with someone you hate to produce heirs, maybe fall for someone you can never have a relationship with ... by all means... it's not so bad.
I sincerely hope that at least for some nobles in Tevinter it works out for the better and they actually like who they have to marry.
Ugh... I can't imagine. If I couldn't escape somehow, I'd probably kill myself. But try to escape first, of course. Just... ugh.
It's not about owing anyone anything really, it's about caring for your family and doing what is needed to do that. Life isn't all about you and what you want.
You know respect and love are two-way streets, right? Why would you love, respect, or help someone who doesn't/wouldn't do the same for you? Who actively does the opposite? The created don't owe their creators a thing. People shouldn't be caged by their parents' desires. They have their life and you have yours.
No, it's a bad quest, with poor writing and utterly cliched dialogue whining endlessly about being gay. Those people who say otherwise are desperate to pin it on something else.
No, it's a bad quest, with poor writing and utterly cliched dialogue whining endlessly about being gay. Those people who say otherwise are desperate to pin it on something else.
Well I'm glad you brought up some good points to back up your point of view.
Oh wait.
You know respect and love are two-way streets, right? Why would you love, respect, or help someone who doesn't/wouldn't do the same for you? Who actively does the opposite? The created don't owe their creators a thing. People shouldn't be caged by their parents' desires. They have their life and you have yours.
Of course it's a two way street. Halward didn't just jump to blood magic either. It accumulated to that event based on mutual disrespect and lack of compromise on BOTH sides.
And let me repeat, that I don't think Dorian should do whatever his father tells him to. I just wanted some consequences for Dorian choosing not to and I would have liked to have seen two sides of the story told. Right now, we have primarily a one sided story going on here, from one person's pov. Not saying Dorian can't be trusted but one side of the story just isn't the full story.
No, it's a bad quest, with poor writing and utterly cliched dialogue whining endlessly about being gay. Those people who say otherwise are desperate to pin it on something else.
Oh the irony
Well I'm glad you brought up some good points to back up your point of view.
Oh wait.
The points explain themselves: Bad writing is bad writing, cliches are cliches. You can't explain a cliche more simply.
Oh the irony
I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the term. The truth of the matter is that Dorian's quest is a cliched after-school special about being gay, and the dad who won't accept it. There are many out there who try to pin it on so many other things, but simply can't accept it.
If you like cliched dialogue, then by all means like the quest. I just don't expect to shell out $60 just to hear it.
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