49 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashii6]

As some of you are aware, Omega DLC had the first class interrupt in Mass Effect games. Engineer specific if I remember correctly. Even though I don't play this class, I thought it was pretty neat. Shep's class was finally acknowledged somehow.
I don't know why BioWare never done this before. Too much work? Hardware problems with old gen consoles? Either way, I'd like to see something like this in Andromeda.

You need to chase someone down? Use Vanguard interrupt and Charge at this person.
Want to take someone alive instead of killing him/her? Use adept interrupt to use Stasis.
You're trying to stop one person from killing another? Use engi/infi interrupt to use Sabotage.
And so one, so on. Of course, for different class these outcomes would we different.

I think it would be something fresh. Something new. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty tired of this crappy paragon/renegade system in ME. I'd like to see something new, instead of picking blue/red magic line to fix every damn problem during conversations and cutscenes.


 

[BabyPuncher]

I don't know why BioWare never done this before. Too much work?

 

Because having class affect the story is a really stupid idea and this would introduce a host of other significant problems.
 

Here is also a very nice post I wrote explaining why contempt towards the persuade options for being 'automatic wins' is also pretty silly.

[Fredward]

Gurl yush. I love me some class specific actions and/or dialogue.

[Ashii6]

Because having class affect the story is a really stupid idea and this would introduce a host of other significant problems.
 

Here is also a very nice post I wrote explaining why contempt towards the persuade options for being 'automatic wins' is also pretty silly.

Did I write anywhere that I want Andromeda to be class specific game? I wrote class specific interrupts would be great, like we had this in Omega DLC.
Just because one class would have special interrupt during some cutscene, that doesn't mean other classes would be doomed. Specific class would just use its powers to solve the problem in its own way.

[BabyPuncher]

Even if that was true, it would introduce at least several other significant problems that I don't really see any good solutions to.
 

Why don't we begin with two obvious ones? First of all, it's going to make these 'powers' seem kind of weak if the player character does everything just as well without them. That's not good storytelling, and is inevitably going to lead to more of the ever-present whining that 'choices don't matter.' Secondly, it's going to introduce all kinds of headaches with the squadmates the character has present at the moment, and why they can't be the ones using the powers instead.

[Ashii6]

Even if that was true, it would introduce at least several other significant problems that I don't really see any good solutions to.
 

Why don't begin with two obvious ones? First of all, it's going to make these 'powers' seem kind of weak if the player character does everything just as well without them. That's not good storytelling, and is inevitably going to lead to more of the ever-present whining that 'choices don't matter.' Secondly, it's going to introduce all kinds of headaches with the squadmates the character has present at the moment, and why they can't be the ones using the powers instead.

So, confirmation of our PC's class is not a good storytelling? What.
First of all: Shepard was acting like a moron during some cutscenes in the entire trilogy. She/He could've use his powers to solve some problems, but no, game acted like every Shep was the same and hers/his only solution was a pistol or assault rifle. Take for example cutscene with Kai Leng during Thessia. Why on earth Shepard was using assault rifle instead of her powers or whatever? That's a bad writing and laziness. Or even another cutscene with Kai Leng during Citadel coup. Moment when Shep was in c-sec car and Leng was on the top of it. Yeah, Shep, used lousy pistol instead of shockwave, incinerate or concussive shot. That was just painful.
Second: I don't even see any problems with squadmates. They've never used their powers to solve any situation in cutscenes, so complaining about it, starting in Andromeda, would be just stupid.

[BabyPuncher]

So, confirmation of our PC's class is not a good storytelling? What.
First of all: Shepard was acting like a moron during some cutscenes in the entire trilogy. She/He could've use his powers to solve some problems, but no, game acted like every Shep was the same and hers/his only solution was a pistol or assault rifle. Take for example cutscene with Kai Leng during Thessia. Why on earth Shepard was using assault rifle instead of her powers or whatever? That's a bad writing and laziness. Or even another cutscene with Kai Leng during Citadel coup. Moment when Shep was in c-sec car and Leng was on the top of it. Yeah, Shep, used lousy pistol instead of shockwave, incinerate or concussive shot. That was just painful.

 

Let me explain this concept nice and slowly for you.

 

It is not possible for the developers to integrate the abilities of the character into combat cutscenes. Do you grasp that simple concept? The developers do not have the resources to animate every cutscene dozens and dozens of different ways to account for the player having any and every possible combination of weapons and powers.

 

Do you grasp the concept that animation is not magic?

 

Even if they did have the resources, how would they possibly do it? Suppose the writers wish to have a simple confrontation where an adversary holds the player character at gunpoint. How do they do it? How do they do it, when the player has the ability to turn invisible, charge at them instantly, disable their weapon, use biotics to levitate them, headshot them with super relexes, deploy a drone or turret behind them, or a whole host of other possibilities? How can they have a chase scene? How can they have a hostage scene? How can they have a simple fight scene? They can't. It would make it impossible to tell a story. 

 

This has utterly nothing to do with writers. It's cinematics. So calling this sort of thing 'bad writing' is flatly stupid. And since you clearly did not have a lick of understanding of how animation works, calling it 'lazy' is flatly stupid as well.

[Ashii6]

Let me explain this concept nice and slowly for you.

 

It is not possible for the developers to integrate the developers to integrate the abilities of the character into combat cutscenes. Do you grasp that simple concept? The developers do not have the resources to animate every cutscene dozens and dozens of different ways to account for the player having any and every possible combination of weapons and powers.

 

Do you grasp the concept that animation is not magic? Really, do you?

 

Even if they did have the resources, how would they possibly do it? Suppose the writers wish to have a simple confrontation where an adversary holds the player character at gunpoint. How do they do it? How do they do it, when the player has the ability to turn invisible, charge at them instantly, disable their weapon, use biotics to levitate them, headshot them with super relexes, deploy a drone or turret behind them, or a whole host of other possibilities? They can't. It would make it impossible to tell a story. 

 

This has utterly nothing to do with writers. It's cinematics. So calling this sort of thing 'bad writing' is flatly stupid. And since you clearly did not have a lick of understanding of how animation works, calling it 'lazy' is flatly stupid as well.

So you mean to tell me that animation concept is not a space magic like ME3 endings? Dammit, you've just ruined everything for me. Not sure how I recover now.

How about I will explain something very slow for you now, since you're so kind and all.

Can you imagine that one specific cutscene wouldn't have to be animated dozens of dozens times? One animation for a specific class and one animations for the rest, like they did in Omega DLC.
Another example: avenger in ME3 was a placeholder weapon over and over again, where in ME1 and ME2 nothing like that happened. Shep was holding the weapon she was currently using, not magically appearing assault rifle. ( There were few exception, but most of the time, my Shep was holding a shotgun )

And why do you assume that EVERY cutscene would have to have interrupt? Does ever cutscene in ME2/3 have paragon/renegade interrupt? No. So, please, stop thinking about problems, where there are none.

Another thing: cinematics aren't an excuse for a bad writing and laziness. I'm not the first person that pointed it and I'm sure I'm not the last. Do you even have an idea how many people agreed that scenes with Shepard and Kai Leng were horrible and made no sense whatsoever? I just pray we won't have this level of absurd in Andromeda.

 

[themikefest]

I would have no problem having class specific interrupts.

[Semyaza82]

I like the idea - a few more conversation options acknowledging class would be good as well. Doesn't need to be some major thing, just something that adds extra flavour to a new playthrough.  

[dragonflight288]

I like the idea as well. 

 

The Class interrupts wouldn't necessarily punish the other classes, especially if they get the same results, but offer a bit of variety and more quality content for our protagonist, not just seeing them holding a rifle and charging even when I don't have one equipped, or my adept Shepard trying to bash his way through a window when Jack just uses her biotics to blast through. Adept Shepard should be capable of the same thing, but we get the same result. 

 

Of course, it's cool to see how much Jack came to care about the students, so it works for her to do that, but it's still painful to watch a Shepard who wasn't equipped with an avenger rifle trying to bash through the glass when he has biotics. 

[SojournerN7]

As some of you are aware, Omega DLC had the first class interrupt in Mass Effect games. Engineer specific if I remember correctly. Even though I don't play this class, I thought it was pretty neat. Shep's class was finally acknowledged somehow.
I don't know why BioWare never done this before. Too much work? Hardware problems with old gen consoles? Either way, I'd like to see something like this in Andromeda.

 
I prefer occasional lines of class specific dialogue. My characters feel a little more grounded in the Mass Effect universe when they can relate to the rest of the cast in small ways.
 
While I would agree that the Omega Engineer Specific Action was a nice touch, I think the game would start to feel boring if the game was littered with class specific interrupts as ME2 was with Paragon/Renegade 'always win' interrupts. So if they use something like that sparingly, I'm on board.
 
While it is actually possible for the developers to integrate the abilities of the character into combat cutscenes, I could see it becoming monumental in scope to do it for every interrupt.

[Inprea]

I'd be quite happy to see class specific interrupts. It's rather annoying to have Shepard suddenly forget she has an attack that would let her cover several meters in an instant, knock out someone's weapons or make use of a reaction time boost. An adrenaline boost should have let Shepard put Kai Lang down on their first meeting. I'm guessing the primary reason they don't do this is having to create the extra content which for me shows an over reliance upon cutscenes. 

 

I'm not certain how many agree but I'd prefer to play out event sequences then have some prerendered sequence show me how things went down.

[SardaukarElite]

I'm all for it, though I think it would help if they work out it exactly what the classes really are. There's also the challenge of giving everyone interesting things to do.

 

---

 

Infiltrators need to be able to Batman out of conversations.

[Ashii6]

I like the idea as well. 

 

The Class interrupts wouldn't necessarily punish the other classes, especially if they get the same results, but offer a bit of variety and more quality content for our protagonist, not just seeing them holding a rifle and charging even when I don't have one equipped, or my adept Shepard trying to bash his way through a window when Jack just uses her biotics to blast through. Adept Shepard should be capable of the same thing, but we get the same result. 

 

Of course, it's cool to see how much Jack came to care about the students, so it works for her to do that, but it's still painful to watch a Shepard who wasn't equipped with an avenger rifle trying to bash through the glass when he has biotics. 

Exactly what I meant. Just because one class would have interrupt, that doesn't automatically mean that others are punished. That specific class would just solve the problem differently.
Great example was cutscene with Jack at Grissom Academy. It was painful to watch that Shep with biotic powers tried to smash the window with avenger...

One class interrupt from time to time wouldn't hurt anyone. Not every cutscene has to have one.

[Belial]

I'm up for anything that acknowledges my PC's class, whether it's class-specific interrupts, alternate cutscenes or simply dialogue. It makes the game more realistic.

[Ahglock]

I support this idea.  Obviously it needs to be limited somewhat due to resources but whatever they can fit in, I'm all for.

[RedCaesar97]

Even if that was true, it would introduce at least several other significant problems that I don't really see any good solutions to.
 

Why don't we begin with two obvious ones? First of all, it's going to make these 'powers' seem kind of weak if the player character does everything just as well without them. That's not good storytelling, and is inevitably going to lead to more of the ever-present whining that 'choices don't matter.' Secondly, it's going to introduce all kinds of headaches with the squadmates the character has present at the moment, and why they can't be the ones using the powers instead.

 

Let me add to this comment by adding another problem:

 

It is entirely possible that you would add a class-specific interrupt with a power that the player does not use/did not put points into.

 

A lot of people here (and in other threads) have posted "Why doesn't my Vanguard just charge in this situation?". Well if you had/use Biotic Charge then sure. But I have played Vanguard in ME3 without Charge. Twice. If that Vanguard suddenly charged it would using a power that I specifically avoided all game.

 

In ME3, I have also played an Infiltrator without Tactical Cheat. I have played droneless Engineers (because the Combat Drone sucks in ME3). I have played Soldiers without Adrenaline Rush. 

 

 

 

Now personally I prefer the Mass Effect 1 method where you try to avoid custscenes that require weapons or scenarios where you wonder why the player character did not use powers instead. It avoids the problem of having situations where the player character does something completely against your playstyle or power/weapon choice.

[Sanunes]

Let me add to this comment by adding another problem:

 

It is entirely possible that you would add a class-specific interrupt with a power that the player does not use/did not put points into.

 

A lot of people here (and in other threads) have posted "Why doesn't my Vanguard just charge in this situation?". Well if you had/use Biotic Charge then sure. But I have played Vanguard in ME3 without Charge. Twice. If that Vanguard suddenly charged it would using a power that I specifically avoided all game.

 

In ME3, I have also played an Infiltrator without Tactical Cheat. I have played droneless Engineers (because the Combat Drone sucks in ME3). I have played Soldiers without Adrenaline Rush. 

 

 

 

Now personally I prefer the Mass Effect 1 method where you try to avoid custscenes that require weapons or scenarios where you wonder why the player character did not use powers instead. It avoids the problem of having situations where the player character does something completely against your playstyle or power/weapon choice.

 

I agree, for I don't want to see interrupts based on powers I don't have any skill points in, especially at the start of a game I could see that being really problematic where you might only have one active skill.  A better solution would be what that they did do with Omega and have it based on the "spirit" of the class.

[KaiserShep]

I liked the Citadel DLC's implementation of class-specific action, or I guess more accurately, "family-specific" action. Shepard could kill the first merc in the sushi restaurant with either a biotic heavy melee attack or with an omniblade, and grappled with the clone the same way. It allows some acknowledgement of your class, while having enough overlap that there doesn't need to be a bunch of different sequences to the same effect. 

[RedCaesar97]

I liked the Citadel DLC's implementation of class-specific action, or I guess more accurately, "family-specific" action. Shepard could kill the first merc in the sushi restaurant with either a biotic heavy melee attack or with an omniblade, and grappled with the clone the same way. It allows some acknowledgement of your class, while having enough overlap that there doesn't need to be a bunch of different sequences to the same effect. 

 

I think this is the best way to implement "class-specific" actions in the game (if there are any).

[ArabianIGoggles]

Let me explain this concept nice and slowly for you.

 

It is not possible for the developers to integrate the abilities of the character into combat cutscenes. Do you grasp that simple concept? The developers do not have the resources to animate every cutscene dozens and dozens of different ways to account for the player having any and every possible combination of weapons and powers.

 

Do you grasp the concept that animation is not magic?

 

Even if they did have the resources, how would they possibly do it? Suppose the writers wish to have a simple confrontation where an adversary holds the player character at gunpoint. How do they do it? How do they do it, when the player has the ability to turn invisible, charge at them instantly, disable their weapon, use biotics to levitate them, headshot them with super relexes, deploy a drone or turret behind them, or a whole host of other possibilities? How can they have a chase scene? How can they have a hostage scene? How can they have a simple fight scene? They can't. It would make it impossible to tell a story. 

 

This has utterly nothing to do with writers. It's cinematics. So calling this sort of thing 'bad writing' is flatly stupid. And since you clearly did not have a lick of understanding of how animation works, calling it 'lazy' is flatly stupid as well.

Since everyone is clearly so far beneath you why waste your time here?  Shouldn't you be out replacing sliced bread?

[RoboticWater]

Let me explain this concept nice and slowly for you.

 

It is not possible for the developers to integrate the abilities of the character into combat cutscenes. Do you grasp that simple concept? The developers do not have the resources to animate every cutscene dozens and dozens of different ways to account for the player having any and every possible combination of weapons and powers.

 

Do you grasp the concept that animation is not magic?

 

Even if they did have the resources, how would they possibly do it? Suppose the writers wish to have a simple confrontation where an adversary holds the player character at gunpoint. How do they do it? How do they do it, when the player has the ability to turn invisible, charge at them instantly, disable their weapon, use biotics to levitate them, headshot them with super relexes, deploy a drone or turret behind them, or a whole host of other possibilities? How can they have a chase scene? How can they have a hostage scene? How can they have a simple fight scene? They can't. It would make it impossible to tell a story. 

 

This has utterly nothing to do with writers. It's cinematics. So calling this sort of thing 'bad writing' is flatly stupid. And since you clearly did not have a lick of understanding of how animation works, calling it 'lazy' is flatly stupid as well.

If they did as you said and made party members able to complete these interrupt options as well, then making the animations wouldn't necessarily be an extra cost. The scene could play out the same no matter what, but if the player has the correct background then the scene will proceed with their character rather than a sqadmate.

 

You of all people should know that illusions are a powerful tool in a game maker's toolkit. If people feel the need to complain about that, then you can dismiss them as foolish and lacking in perspective. If BioWare can make the player feel more integral to the story with illusions (especially if they're cheap to implement), then I say do it.

 

You are completely correct about combat abilities in cutscenes however. I don't think BioWare have even taken kinetic barriers into account in their cutscenes yet (I seem to remember most cinematic killings taking a single shot). Accounting for all the abilities the player has, especially OP powers like teleportation, would be a nightmare. Even the most reactive RPGs have trouble accounting for every ability the player has. Of course, if BIoWare focused entirely on knowledge and technical skill rather than active abilities, then that trouble could be avoided.

[Cyonan]

Let me explain this concept nice and slowly for you.

 

It is not possible for the developers to integrate the abilities of the character into combat cutscenes. Do you grasp that simple concept? The developers do not have the resources to animate every cutscene dozens and dozens of different ways to account for the player having any and every possible combination of weapons and powers.

 

Do you grasp the concept that animation is not magic?

 

Even if they did have the resources, how would they possibly do it? Suppose the writers wish to have a simple confrontation where an adversary holds the player character at gunpoint. How do they do it? How do they do it, when the player has the ability to turn invisible, charge at them instantly, disable their weapon, use biotics to levitate them, headshot them with super relexes, deploy a drone or turret behind them, or a whole host of other possibilities? How can they have a chase scene? How can they have a hostage scene? How can they have a simple fight scene? They can't. It would make it impossible to tell a story. 

 

This has utterly nothing to do with writers. It's cinematics. So calling this sort of thing 'bad writing' is flatly stupid. And since you clearly did not have a lick of understanding of how animation works, calling it 'lazy' is flatly stupid as well.

 

Having your character's real equipment show up in a cutscene is not some monumental task. Mass Effect 1 was capable of doing it and it wasn't even new tech back in 2007. It's also in Mass Effect 2 and 3, although at some point they decided they really liked Shep using the Avenger.

 

The main reason why you can't is if you want to do pre-rendered cutscenes but this is 2015. Every video game being made by a AAA developer looks good enough in-engine that you don't need to do that anymore. These days cutscenes are capable of using pretty much anything from standard gameplay, they just do so in a very scripted manner.

 

It would be theoretically possible to have a cutscene in which you can control a character. It would just be stupid to do that, because it's not really a cutscene anymore at that point. It's just gameplay with a terrible camera angle.

 

There are also tricks you can use to get away with easier animation work, since the casts don't all have unique animations. Need a character to blast away a drone during a chase scene? Have them do the animation then apply an effect of biotics for Vanguard/Adept, tech for Engineer/Infiltrator, or explosive for Soldier and pick one for Sentinel.

 

It's not some massive game changing thing and they don't all need to be, but it's a nice touch to show off that your character has these abilities outside of player controlled combat. You have the actual animation be the same, but the special effects are different.

 

Citadel DLC actually does this for the fight with the clone when you clash in melee with them at the start in a cutscene. My Vanguard shep entered into a biotic clash with her clone while my Infiltrator was an omni-blade. It was a good touch.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Wow. someone must be absolutely awful in situations that involve social interaction and babies. Lol