I can see the point with the other races, but it wasn't really a problem with the human Inquisitor, as it's implied Ostwick may be the most boring place in Thedas. Not much to say about a childhood spent rolling cheese wheels for entertainment.
I actually headcanon that my Trevelyan (she is a warrior) earned the nickname "The Crimson Banshee" around bandit camps for dealing with them in insane ways (she is gonna be a reaver).
I headcanon that they were a skirt-chaser to combat the mind-numbing boredom of Ostwick.
Okay, that is funny.
This was my other concern when playing a non-human. They're pretty much treated no differently in-game then a human is other then a few comments in the Winter palace it seemed.
Yeah, that combined with limited romance options means I'm unlikely to ever play something other than human (or maybe elven) in DA:I. Hopefully it's more in depth next time if they opt for multiple race, which I bet they will.
This is exactly why I liked the way they did it in Origins. I am a fan of both DA and ES, but for different reasons.
Origins had a more personal feel, not because of the choise itself of Origin, but because of the characters that introduced you to the world. Fergus, Tamlen, Gorim etc. were a reference back to before you started the new life as a warden, which made the game feel deeper, like you were a real person in the world and not just an avatar of action.
I agree. My Inquisitor didn't start off as a person, she just started off as The Herald. It would be like just starting as The Warden in Origins... which would be bad, obviously.
I can see the point with the other races, but it wasn't really a problem with the human Inquisitor, as it's implied Ostwick may be the most boring place in Thedas. Not much to say about a childhood spent rolling cheese wheels for entertainment.
I think you're partly joking, but that's a bad excuse. The writers' job is to think up interesting things and write them. Nothing interesting could have happened in all those years? Besides, Trevelyan got combat experience from somewhere.
I actually headcanon that my Trevelyan (she is a warrior) earned the nickname "The Crimson Banshee" around bandit camps for dealing with them in insane ways (she is gonna be a reaver).
Sure, they were trained to eventually be shunted off to the Templars. The Trevelyan family tosses one third or fourth child to the Chantry every generation and the Inquisitor was the lucky candidate.I think you're partly joking, but that's a bad excuse. The writers' job is to think up interesting things and write them. Nothing interesting could have happened in all those years? Besides, Trevelyan got combat experience from somewhere.
I don't think you comprehend how boring Ostwick is. It's so boring that its most notable feature is its double walls, which ensures its citizens live out their extremely boring lives in peace. It's the Planet Namek of Thedas.
Trevelyan: "Oh, Maker, this is so horribly dull. I hope something exciting happens around here soon, I don't care what it is!"
But that's not the worst thing; lots of heroes had boring early lives. You don't think Luke Skywalker was eager to leave the moisture farm because it was so darn exciting, do you?
Bann Trevelyan: Morgan! MORGAAAN!Trevelyan: "Oh, Maker, this is so horribly dull. I hope something exciting happens around here soon, I don't care what it is!"
They don't have to be nearly as long, but I would like to have some variable introduction level depending on background, something that gives you a chance to establish your character before tossing them into crisis. That was the serious problem I had with both DA2 and DAI approaches.The Child of Bhaal growing up in an oversized library. Or Bilbo in The Shire (talk about boring).
Now, I would rather burn myself alive than have origins again. A couple playthroughs are fine, but after that I find myself wanting an 'Origin be gone' mod. I never found them that good.
I prefer the in media res take from da2 and dai. I don't need a metric ton of exposition about my boring life, just let's get on to the fun.
I think roaming around the Conclave for 20-30 minutes would be nice (the horrible tutorial level could be cut shorter as well). You could talk to people connected to your background (friends/allies who came along) to establish your character's views and beliefs early on, maybe even take a look at the Divine so you would actually give a damn about her murder (same goes for the other victims).
In general, DAI worked okay for me, but that's because I had my character's backstory planned out weeks before the game came out. I still prefer the way Origins did it, it helped me get immersed in the world more. The Herald in DAI did feel more like a decoration piece, as someone here said, like s/he didn't even exist before the Conclave.
I think roaming around the Conclave for 20-30 minutes would be nice (the horrible tutorial level could be cut shorter as well). You could talk to people connected to your background (friends/allies who came along) to establish your character's views and beliefs early on, maybe even take a look at the Divine so you would actually give a damn about her murder (same goes for the other victims).
In general, DAI worked okay for me, but that's because I had my character's backstory planned out weeks before the game came out. I still prefer the way Origins did it, it helped me get immersed in the world more. The Herald in DAI did feel more like a decoration piece, as someone here said, like s/he didn't even exist before the Conclave.
That actually would have been really sweet.
I could imagine it like this: You character would be doing different things based on their background - e.g. Trevelyn would be chit-chatting to nobles, Adaar and Cadash would probably be on the periphery - they'd probably have an opportunity to chat to the servants as well as the group of people they travelled with, and Lavellan would be sneaking around where nobody is supposed to be, snarking with your companion about how silly this is, possibly coming across a scared elven servant who is sneaking off. You'd likely also be introduced to some of the major names in the Mage-Templar war through these conversations. Throw in one distinctive NPC companion for each origin. In each case, you'd notice something weird coming from the direction of a basement or a cellar. Trevelyn would have to sneak out of the conclave somehow, so would Cadash, Adaar would be pushed down there because that's their job (possibly some jokes about how it's a silly job, how a templar is afraid of a dark cellar), and Lavellan would notice something off, wander off, and be chased by their companion who'd urge them to come back.
In the cellar, they'd possibly notice some blood. You'd have to do some combat - perhaps spiders, or wisps. You'd then find a couple of suspect things - the dead body of a Grey Warden, or maybe even the broken frame of an eluvian (although you don't recognise its significance), hinting towards the major plot lines in the main game, before you then have a discussion with your companion about how wack this is, and then suddenly everything goes to black.
You hear the voice of Justinia calling. Then you wake up in the dungeon with Cassandra (no pointless, not-at-all-dramatic fade sequence). Game starts as normal. You'd cut back on some of the combat/size of the tutorial level accordingly.
I think roaming around the Conclave for 20-30 minutes would be nice (the horrible tutorial level could be cut shorter as well). You could talk to people connected to your background (friends/allies who came along) to establish your character's views and beliefs early on, maybe even take a look at the Divine so you would actually give a damn about her murder (same goes for the other victims).
In general, DAI worked okay for me, but that's because I had my character's backstory planned out weeks before the game came out. I still prefer the way Origins did it, it helped me get immersed in the world more. The Herald in DAI did feel more like a decoration piece, as someone here said, like s/he didn't even exist before the Conclave.
I had an idea about that a while back, when I was initially disappointed with the backgrounds.
The conclave would have been a playable stage before the explosion, and your race/background would change the initial events and how you found yourself to be in the chamber with Corypheus and the Divine.
Human Warrior/Rogue. You are at the conclave representing Ostwick nobility. You get to greet the divine before entering a gathering discussing the Champion of Kirkwall. It is mentioned that a "Serah Tethras" is being brought to the conclave to testify (and autograph)
Human Mage. You are at the conclave representing the circles of magi. You are introduced to the stage by Seeker Cassandra who leaves your party because she has to fetch "a loud mouth dwarf" back in haven. You get to explore a bit before the same meeting.
Elf. You are sneaking around the conclave. Outside you run into Solas who reveals that he noticed your presence a while ago. He tells you that he will be leaving shortly. You observe the meetings from above, Batman style.
Dwarf. Same as elf, but you are found out by Leliana instead. Trying to escape her you stumple into some forgotten hallways where you discover red lyrium under the temple. You lead her away from the conclave to escape her, some of your fellow Carta create a diversion that lead her away from the conclave.
Qunari. You are a part of the mercenary guard. You are not permitted to enter the conclave and are introduced to the level by Commander Cullen who then leaves to see to his own forces at the forward camp further down the hills. You decide that guard duty is boring and try to sneak your way to the meeting.
The meeting is then interrupted by Grey Warden mages that warn people that they have been alerted to Darkspawn presence in the temple. Panic erupts and you try to escape along another path. On the way you hear the divine protest to her captivity and decide to see what's up. You enter a room and it all ends in a flash of green light.
I think roaming around the Conclave for 20-30 minutes would be nice
I don't mind roaming around for five minutes talking to various people, but 20-30 minutes? Maker, no. That goes back to the same sense of being stuck in a boring neverending intro/tutorial that just goes on and on and doesn't let you get on with the story already. We already had enough of that with the origins + Ostagar taking you hours to complete before you're ever allowed to roam freely in DAO.
I don't mind roaming around for five minutes talking to various people, but 20-30 minutes? Maker, no. That goes back to the same sense of being stuck in a boring neverending intro/tutorial that just goes on and on and doesn't let you get on with the story already. We already had enough of that with the origins + Ostagar taking you hours to complete before you're ever allowed to roam freely in DAO.
Ostagar was long, but I didn't midn the origins.
Ostagar was long, but I didn't midn the origins.
The problem was not the origins, it was that the origins were the prologue to a prologue, the tutorial to another tutorial. Half the reason people don't bother with playing multiple characters / multiple origins in DAO is because it takes you so long to get anywhere with your character. And I've heard the same reasoning with DAI - people don't bother trying on different races because the tutorial level at the Temple is so dull and long.
Five minutes of hanging out to establish your character, fine. But what we need is to get away from these neverending intro levels that make starting various characters such a drag, not make them even longer and duller.
The problem was not the origins, it was that the origins were the prologue to a prologue, the tutorial to another tutorial. Half the reason people don't bother with playing multiple characters / multiple origins in DAO is because it takes you so long to get anywhere with your character. And I've heard the same reasoning with DAI - people don't bother trying on different races because the tutorial level at the Temple is so dull and long.
Five minutes of hanging out to establish your character, fine. But what we need is to get away from these neverending intro levels that make starting various characters such a drag, not make them even longer and duller.
I just remembered that there is a mod for PC called "Skip Ostagar" xD
I just remembered that there is a mod for PC called "Skip Ostagar" xD
Yep. That's how excruciating it got after the second-third time you'd done it.
(I even do enjoy the actual "Ostagar" part where you're just hanging out and talking to Loghain, Wynne, Alistair etc, it's the running around in circles through the swamps completing side quests and running through the Tower of Ishal again and again and again to the point where you memorize where the "surprise" darkspawn will come from that kills it...)
I don't mind the tower, but I hate the swamps. Especially because I'm the type that has to do everything in each area, like finding some box for some lady in Redcliffe.
The problem was not the origins, it was that the origins were the prologue to a prologue, the tutorial to another tutorial. Half the reason people don't bother with playing multiple characters / multiple origins in DAO is because it takes you so long to get anywhere with your character. And I've heard the same reasoning with DAI - people don't bother trying on different races because the tutorial level at the Temple is so dull and long.
Five minutes of hanging out to establish your character, fine. But what we need is to get away from these neverending intro levels that make starting various characters such a drag, not make them even longer and duller.
I agree, I like the idea of a five minute hang out session to establish your character but the tutorial should be done during the course of the game, or at least integrate it well enough to the point where it doesn't feel like you're waiting to play the actual game. Reaching Ostager is pretty much where I quit. Sadly, I still have PCs standing somewhere there, never to leave that place. Just like I have a PC or two just hanging around Haven.
I agree, I like the idea of a five minute hang out session to establish your character but the tutorial should be done during the course of the game, or at least integrate it well enough to the point where it doesn't feel like you're waiting to play the actual game. Reaching Ostager is pretty much where I quit. Sadly, I still have PCs standing somewhere there, never to leave that place. Just like I have a PC or two just hanging around Haven.
After Black Emporium came out, I honestly started just repurposing character saves. Oh I want to play another human warrior but with a different specialization or backstory? Let me get that other character's earliest save from Haven and send them to the BE to remake their face and pretend I started them from scratch. Just the thought of going through the whole Temple level again makes me exausted.
The problem was not the origins, it was that the origins were the prologue to a prologue, the tutorial to another tutorial. Half the reason people don't bother with playing multiple characters / multiple origins in DAO is because it takes you so long to get anywhere with your character. And I've heard the same reasoning with DAI - people don't bother trying on different races because the tutorial level at the Temple is so dull and long.
Five minutes of hanging out to establish your character, fine. But what we need is to get away from these neverending intro levels that make starting various characters such a drag, not make them even longer and duller.
I don't mind the tutorial to a tutorial, so much as I mind the Origins in DA:O being thematically irrelevant to the actual plot of the game, and often setting up conflicts and motivations that are actively inconsistent with the story that Bioware wants to tell, i.e., a character who adopts and comes to embody the indentity of a GW. DA:I is much better in this regard, because the game always builds up to the PC becoming (and being) the Inquisitor. They could have done more with reactivity re: your background, it was a shame in that regard, but I don't think the way DA:O handled it would be better.
Origins had a more personal feel, not because of the choise itself of Origin, but because of the characters that introduced you to the world. Fergus, Tamlen, Gorim etc. were a reference back to before you started the new life as a warden, which made the game feel deeper, like you were a real person in the world and not just an avatar of action.
I prefer more details in the Origins, and as they were done in DAO, there was still a lot of variety we could choose in our responses. Just because we were a mage doesn't mean we had to be a suck up, we could express willingness to help Jowan and Lilly escape, or be duplicitous and pretend to help but actually help Irving.
DAI the few few race dialogue options felt like "hey remember I'm race X!" rather than an actual backstory. As others said, it was built in too late to the game to retroactively have sufficient immersion in dialogue, narrative, and gameplay.
I find it ironic that fans of the blank slate origin treat the DAI style as how Dragon Age should be. The beginning of the game series started with a strong backstory. If you didn't like that, why did you play two full games hoping the third would have less of a backstory? Why not just continue playing Skyrim and other such game styles? The origins is one of the things that makes DAO stand out and I think a big reason why the game was so distinctive from other contemporary RPGs.
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