69 réponses à ce sujet

[Vegeta 77]

I am fine with a smaller story like DA2 it can be more personal for the protag and i like that Hawke story was not save the world again not everygame has to be save galaxy from the big bad 

[LinksOcarina]

They tried that, people complained about it.

 

Admittingy, they complained about a lot of things with Dragon Age II, but the scale of the story was one that is now, retroactively, seen as an asset...funny how these things work sometimes.

[sjsharp2011]

They tried that, people complained about it.

 

Admittingy, they complained about a lot of things with Dragon Age II, but the scale of the story was one that is now, retroactively, seen as an asset...funny how these things work sometimes.

 

 

Yeah I actually quite like the DA2 story as although it was a small story I think it made up for it with it's humour as it is quiet funy in places the kind of things Hawke and their companions get mixed up in. The only big serious things that went on were the big fights at the end of each Act. Whether they could or would pull something like that off with MEA I'm not so sure but we'll have to wait and see what Bioware have in mind. Having said that though I think EA will probably push Bioware to make the story a big save the world type story again as that's the kind of thing they do as they want the game to sell and sell big.

[straykat]

They tried that, people complained about it.

 

Admittingy, they complained about a lot of things with Dragon Age II, but the scale of the story was one that is now, retroactively, seen as an asset...funny how these things work sometimes.

 

Hey now, I kept it real when DA2 came out. Liked it then, like it now.

 

And when I trash DAI, no one in their right mind could say I'm just a hater of the series.. because I liked DA2.

[Queen Skadi]

They tried that, people complained about it.

 

I really gotta say I do get tired of people using Dragon Age 2 as an example of why Bioware should not try anything different especially considering that the game did not really do much differently and the games problems have nothing to do with the things they did do differently.

 

Why is it that everyone is so quick to blame new ideas (even though Dragon Age 2 did not really have any) when we should be blaming the lack of effort, the shorter development cycle and the arrogance of EA that made them think they could just push any old trash out the door and slap Bioware's name on it to make money?

 

Besides if you actually read the OP I think you will find Bioware really hasn't done what I am proposing, I am talking about focusing on smaller scale stories and shorter individual playthroughs to focus on emphasizing branching narrative and choice and consequence, Dragon Age 2 was still the standard linear chain of events where player choice was made even more irrelevant.

[straykat]

I really gotta say I do get tired of people using Dragon Age 2 as an example of why Bioware should not try anything different especially considering that the game did not really do much differently and the games problems have nothing to do with the things they did do differently.

 

Why is it that everyone is so quick to blame new ideas (even though Dragon Age 2 did not really have any) when we should be blaming the lack of effort, the shorter development cycle and the arrogance of EA that made them think they could just push any old trash out the door and slap Bioware's name on it to make money?

 

Besides if you actually read the OP I think you will find Bioware really hasn't done what I am proposing, I am talking about focusing on smaller scale stories and shorter individual playthroughs to focus on emphasizing branching narrative and choice and consequence, Dragon Age 2 was still the standard linear chain of events where player choice was made even more irrelevant.

 

Those are the things I do condemn. But I think it's a testament of an essentially entertaining game, despite the complete crappiness of a lot of it's elements. Even with all of it's copy/paste content, I dislike DAI more even though it has a beautiful environment.

[LinksOcarina]

Hey now, I kept it real when DA2 came out. Liked it then, like it now.

 

And when I trash DAI, no one in their right mind could say I'm just a hater of the series.. because I liked DA2.

 

So did I. It is just an observation of the facts at that time, though.

[RoboticWater]

The complaints about DAII's story are probably the result of expectations about BioWare, but I can't help thinking that that BioWare set themselves up for failure once they opened with "the story of the Hero of Kirkwall." While the savior of a city is certainly smaller than the savior of the whole realm, I don't think it was a good idea to imply that the player would become the hero of anything at the beginning. That just reinforces the existing expectations.

 

Just looking at the success of Telltale games, I think it's pretty obvious that players are perfectly willing to part with the power fantasy and epic stakes for a good story.

 

In a more traditional RPG like Dragon Age, it might not be possible to make a decent smaller story simply because the player becomes a demi-god with money and artifacts pouring out of every orifice. The player goes from a mage who can cast a simple arcane bolt to a mage who has a power called "Storm of the Century." It's kind of difficult to fit that kind of development into a smaller scale.

 

Since Mass Effect's core gameplay is skill based, the progression curve isn't nearly so steep (or doesn't have to be). The player comes in as an efficient killer and leaves in mostly the same state. Sure, you're killing about as many people per minute as you do in Dragon Age (in my estimate at least; it's been a while), the player might not notice a vast difference in their power.

[LinksOcarina]

I really gotta say I do get tired of people using Dragon Age 2 as an example of why Bioware should not try anything different especially considering that the game did not really do much differently and the games problems have nothing to do with the things they did do differently.

 

Why is it that everyone is so quick to blame new ideas (even though Dragon Age 2 did not really have any) when we should be blaming the lack of effort, the shorter development cycle and the arrogance of EA that made them think they could just push any old trash out the door and slap Bioware's name on it to make money?

 

Besides if you actually read the OP I think you will find Bioware really hasn't done what I am proposing, I am talking about focusing on smaller scale stories and shorter individual playthroughs to focus on emphasizing branching narrative and choice and consequence, Dragon Age 2 was still the standard linear chain of events where player choice was made even more irrelevant.

 

Well, it is the perfect example of BioWare doing something different. Unless you know of something else to reference outside of Sonic Chronicles or Shattered Steel, be my guest.

 

And lets be honest, Dragon Age 2 did have new ideas; mainly because it was not a story about epicness, but rather a story about failure. The problem it was never really marketed as such; people expected the "Kirkwall Hero" story. They got it, but it was not what they expected in tone or consistancy. It was a story based on intimacy, on budding family and friends trying to survive together.

 

Best way I always put it, Dragon Age 2 is as close as we get to a realism of characterization. That, at the very least, is undeniable. 

[Lady Artifice]

I like saving the universe. 

[Queen Skadi]

Well, it is the perfect example of BioWare doing something different.

 

If it is the perfect example of Bioware "doing something different" then it is also the perfect example of how Bioware is stuck in a rut and refuses to move from their comfort zone.

[straykat]

 It's different, but built upon something they did already. Origin stories. Only that DA2 is a long, more involved origin story. DAI's protagonist is two steps back and well into generic TES territory.. with a literal prisoner turned messiah in one hour.

 

And I like what Bioware can do. Not what Bioware can rip off from an inferior storyteller.

[LinksOcarina]

If it is the perfect example of Bioware "doing something different" then it is also the perfect example of how Bioware is stuck in a rut and refuses to move from their comfort zone.

 

Inquisition would be that example, if you ask me.

 

And I liked Inquisition for what it was.

[straykat]

Inquisition would be that example, if you ask me.

 

And I liked Inquisition for what it was.

 

It's not that different. It's the same type of high fantasy epic story where someone gets tainted/touched by some ancient artifact that changes their fate and urges them to save the whole world. Shepard/Protheans, Mahariel/Eluvian, Frodo/One Ring, etc..

 

Except they made it even worse by not developing much story around it and instead actually borrowed from Bethesda, who writes even more chilidish stories like this. Where it's always a prisoner who gets tainted or changed by fate and becomes the Messiah of the day. It's made worse for the fact that they were capable of writing DA2/Asunder/and Masked Empire that showed they had the chops for something more nuanced, contentious, and political.

[FlyingSquirrel]

It's probably hard to create an RPG with potentially big differences in your character's species / skills / background without some sort of contrivance to make the character suddenly become a lot more important, whether via conscription into the Grey Wardens, surviving the disaster at the start of DA:I, or whatever.

 

Somebody like Cassandra probably would have made more sense as the protagonist to DA:I in some ways - she's the one who makes the decision to revive the Inquisition, she has experience dealing with all the various factions and agendas in Thedas, and her views on the Mage/Templar conflict are moderate enough that you could push her in either direction depending on your preferences. But that would still mean a lot more restrictions on the character's background. I'm not as familiar with DA lore as some here, but I'm assuming that there are no Qunari Seekers, for example, and it would be tougher to imagine a rogue or a closeted mage in Cassandra's position either.

 

Personally, I don't mind playing a character with more of a pre-defined background as long as I'm free to shape his or her personality and philosophy - Shepard and Hawke usually work just as well for me as the Hero of Ferelden or the Inquisitor. But I gather that I'm probably in the minority among RPG players.

[sjsharp2011]

I like saving the universe. 

 

 

me too

[PhroXenGold]

I like saving the universe. 

 

While it is definitely satisfying, and I would never want BW to completely stop making games where you have to do so, I like to have a variety of stories - some about being the big damn hero, some about being something less significant in the grand scheme of things.

[Cheviot]

Hang on, ME2 was wall-to-wall smaller scale stories (with saving the universe at the end, I'll admit), but practically the only time it's been brought up in this thread is to poke fun at it's small-scale stories. 

[FlyingSquirrel]

Hang on, ME2 was wall-to-wall smaller scale stories (with saving the universe at the end, I'll admit), but practically the only time it's been brought up in this thread is to poke fun at it's small-scale stories. 

 

And whatever ME2's merits and faults, the somewhat slower-paced and/or smaller-scale parts of ME2 felt more natural than the comparable parts of ME1 and ME3. The only thing that felt a little contrived was that things were usually reaching a boiling point right as Shepard turns up, no matter how you space out the missions. (If you talk to Liara and the tracking officer about Samara early on but don't actually go recruit her until much later, I guess she just spends several weeks investigating and not getting anywhere before that cop is ordered to arrest her?) But then, that sort of thing seems to be typical for non-linear RPGs in general.

[rashie]

Then they'd have another Dragon Age 2 on their hands.

 

They can't have that.

Dragon age 2s plot and narrative wasn't the problem so much as it being rushed out the gate at least a year too early at a minimum.