120 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

After 1000 years it unlikely they did not scattered we are talking here of tens of thousands at the least. Its very unlikely they did not.

 

This, pretty much. 

 

If there are any descendants of Andraste left in the world, then there are a whole lot of them. And the bloodline would be so diluted by time that for all intents and purposes they'd be no more or less related to Andraste on a truly genetic level than anyone else walking around. Either that or they'd be inbred to the point of gross(meaning extreme, in this case) deformity. 

 

Of course this is a fantasy setting where the rules of actual genetics and genealogy don't necessarily apply(See the Therins and their dragon blood), so who knows.

[Sir Zdanius]

Well, there isn't really random data when you're dealing with an authored fictional world. Though there's perhaps a willingness to go for over elaborate explanations, rather than just going for the mundane - I think I heard somewhere that red hair is a Fereldan trait.

I think so, too. It's not the hair color itself that drives me to this theory, though, but the unearthly memories of mothers, both focusing a lot on hair (and Andraste's line carries on only through females). But I agree, "they have red hair because of Fereldan heritage" is certainly a simpler and more likely explanation.

[TheKomandorShepard]

After 1000 years it unlikely they did not scattered we are talking here of tens of thousands at the least. Its very unlikely they did not.

As i said it would only apply if they had a lot of children and got scattered around the world in larger numbers (what i can see only in individual cases as moving around the world isn't very common outside exceptional examples) and relatively early otherwise we end with small percentage of human population being descendant at best.

[helpthisguyplease]

As i said it would only apply if they had a lot of children and got scattered around the world in larger numbers (what i can see only in individual cases as moving around the world isn't very common outside exceptional examples) and relatively early otherwise we end with small percentage of human population being descendant at best.

you only need each of the children to have 2 children who have 2 children each who have 2 children each assuming a generation is 20 years and can make a baby that you get 65 children in the first century 2048 at the second century and 65536 in the third century and 2097152 in the fourth century. Of course that is assuming that all had children but even if a third only survived to have children there still hundreds of thousands.

You see what I mean at such high numbers doubtful they did not move all over the continent. Also the children of Andraste where most likely of noble rank and nobles had higher social mobility. Granted I doubt there millions of nobles on all of Thedas but tens of thousands are also I doubt the second child's descendents could keep their nobility with no land to receive.

[TheKomandorShepard]

you only need each of the children to have 2 children who have 2 children each who have 2 children each assuming a generation is 20 years and can make a baby that you get 65 children in the first century 2048 at the second century and 65536 in the third century and 2097152 in the fourth century. Of course that is assuming that all had children but even if a third only survived to have children there still hundreds of thousands.

That is wrong logic and way of calculating as you mentioned you are assuming every descendant had 2 children or even had children at all and doesn't include decease factor aside from natural factors Thedas is very dangerous place plagued magical disasters and dangerous creatures.

[GoldenGail3]

Yeah, the guy who underestimated Tevinter ingenuity in regards of immortality is *aboslutely 100% sure the Evanuris is still locked away*

Yeah, he's the one who put them there. And I don't want Sera to be Anduil, I dislike tinfoil hat theories that have very little claim on anything.

[Knight of Dane]

Yeah he's also the one who figured Corypheus would die in the explosion. Who's to say he's right about the Evanuris staying where he put them?

 

I know stuff I put places remove themselves all the time... Dang socks...

[WildOrchid]

Solas knows that the Evenuras are all locked away in the Black City. He's the one who locked them there.

 

It was... sarcasm. I don't believe the Sera is Andruil theory.

[GoldenGail3]

It was... sarcasm. I don't believe the Sera is Andruil theory.

My mistake. I don't understand sarcasm sometimes.

[Andromelek]

Yeah, he's the one who put them there. And I don't want Sera to be Anduil, I dislike tinfoil hat theories that have very little claim on anything.

I don't think Sera is Andruil, but I do think Andruil isn't sealed, she was free and fought Anaris, who pretty much wanted to kick Solas' ass for sealing away his fellow Forgotten Ones.

On the matter of Leliana and Aveline being Andraste's descendents, I don't think being good persons has to relate them to her, behavior and moral are not genetic (excluding some mental diseases they clearly don't have) beside, Andraste's paint on the Chantry during Leliana's quest portrays her as a blonde.

[GoldenGail3]

I don't think Sera is Andruil, but I do think Andruil isn't sealed, she was free and fought Anaris, who pretty much wanted to kick Solas' ass for sealing away his fellow Forgotten Ones.
On the matter of Leliana and Aveline being Andraste's descendents, I don't think being good persons has to relate them to her, behavior and moral are not genetic (excluding some mental diseases they clearly don't have) beside, Andraste's paint on the Chantry during Leliana's quest portrays her as a blonde.

Alright.

[riverbanks]

On the matter of Leliana and Aveline being Andraste's descendents, I don't think being good persons has to relate them to her, behavior and moral are not genetic

 

As a side-note of this, we don't even actually know if Andraste was a "good person" either. All we know of her are legends and accounts that have been heavily distorted and embelished over time. She might've been a saint, but she might as well have been a mad tyrant, too, and we just haven't heard that side of the story yet. We have no idea who Andraste really was beyond what the Chantry (with its own biased interests) tells us.

 

Andraste's paint on the Chantry during Leliana's quest portrays her as a blonde.

 

Should also be noted that this angelic figure of Andraste portrayed in Chantry frescos and paintings is likely as historically accurate as our own portrayals of white, blonde, blue-eyed Jesus. Andraste was Alamarri, a barbarian rebel who incited a violent uprising  from the Southern tribes... her real appearance was probably nothing like that pristine, saintly figure we see in the Chantry of a thousand years later.

[Ariella]

Maybe Leliana is a decendant of Andraste.  Given she's got that whole "I talk to the Maker"/"Ithink I talk to the Maker thing going.

"I talk to God all the time, He never mentioned you."-Mouse, Ladyhawke.

[Former_Fiend]

As a side-note of this, we don't even actually know if Andraste was a "good person" either. All we know of her are legends and accounts that have been heavily distorted and embelished over time. She might've been a saint, but she might as well have been a mad tyrant, too, and we just haven't heard that side of the story yet. We have no idea who Andraste really was beyond what the Chantry (with its own biased interests) tells us.

 

 

Should also be noted that this angelic figure of Andraste portrayed in Chantry frescos and paintings is likely as historically accurate as our own portrayals of white, blonde, blue-eyed Jesus. Andraste was Alamarri, a barbarian rebel who incited a violent uprising  from the Southern tribes... her real appearance was probably nothing like that pristine, saintly figure we see in the Chantry of a thousand years later.

 

World of Thedas vol. 2 does paint the picture of Andraste more as a mad fanatic without a strategic bone in her body, so there's that.

[Andromelek]

World of Thedas vol. 2 does paint the picture of Andraste more as a mad fanatic without a strategic bone in her body, so there's that.

^This.. It also seems that Maferath was actually the military mind there.

As for Andraste's aspect, Jesus was portrayed as white and blonde because he looked more "european" on that way, his real aspect would rather resemble to an Ottoman, however, people in Thedas is not racist towards skin colour but towards species instead, if Andraste would've been an elf, then there would be a reason to change her aspect.

[Heimdall]

^This.. It also seems that Maferath was actually the military mind there.

As for Andraste's aspect, Jesus was portrayed as white and blonde because he looked more "european" on that way, his real aspect would rather resemble to an Ottoman, however, people in Thedas is not racist towards skin colour but towards species instead, if Andraste would've been an elf, then there would be a reason to change her aspect.

Each culture portrays god in its own image.

 

You should see some Japanese carvings of the historical Buddha, from more realistic art periods, they all look very japanese.

[Sifr]

Maybe Leliana is a decendant of Andraste.  Given she's got that whole "I talk to the Maker"/"Ithink I talk to the Maker thing going.

 

People talking to the Gods is normal... it's called prayer.

 

It's when the Gods start talking back you need to worry... it's called schizophrenia.

[straykat]

Sure, sure, everyone *must* be a special something now.

Merril is Dirthamen. Velanna is Andruil. Tamlen is Elgar'nan AND HE'S COMING BACK, bitches!!

Ohh, and Sandal is the Maker himself.

 

Nah. Merrill is Falon'Din at best (Vallaslin). She lives up to the whole Friend of the Dead thing and has his symbol.

 

Although I prefer my male Mahariel as a Falon'Din counterpart too, while Tamlen has the Dirthamen sign on his head. Their story is similar too, when Dirthamen became missing and Falon'Din looked for his missing friend. While Tamlen is sneaky and looks into Marethari's secret books and knows lore... just like Dirthammen is the elven god of secrets and knowledge.

 

 

Anyways.. Divine Leliana is my preference, but I don't know if she's Andraste related. I think her and Cass are similar after Trespasser with minor details aside, but Leliana looks like she was made to wear the Divine robe... and her story from the beginning is a great setup for it (especially if a romance Warden died). Whether she's related doesn't matter to me, but it'd be a nice footnote.

[Andromelek]

Each culture portrays god in its own image.
 
You should see some Japanese carvings of the historical Buddha, from more realistic art periods, they all look very japanese.

I know, my point is that southern Theodosians (Orlesians and Fereldans) don't have a standarized hair colour, they could have painted her of another and still she would look as one of them.

[Sir Zdanius]

Should also be noted that this angelic figure of Andraste portrayed in Chantry frescos and paintings is likely as historically accurate as our own portrayals of white, blonde, blue-eyed Jesus. Andraste was Alamarri, a barbarian rebel who incited a violent uprising  from the Southern tribes... her real appearance was probably nothing like that pristine, saintly figure we see in the Chantry of a thousand years later.

This. I've even mentioned it in my post.

 

I know, my point is that southern Theodosians (Orlesians and Fereldans) don't have a standarized hair colour, they could have painted her of another and still she would look as one of them.

Red hair is a common Fereldan trait and Fereldans descended from Andraste's people, the Alamarri. As I said, I've mentioned the Valence fresco in my post, along with dialogue in which Cassandra says that Andraste was a ginger. I don't see the fresco as being any more historically accurate than the knowledge of a person who lived and trained in the Chantry since she was six.
I'm not saying the fresco couldn't be right, mind you. But it makes more sense for it to be wrong (for reasons outlined in my post and again by riverbanks) than Cassandra spreading misinformation in casual conversation.

[Andromelek]

Fair enough... though, I admit I've never heard such party banter, and the dudes with a direct Alamarri bloodline aren't ginger.

[Sir Zdanius]

One of the more memorable pieces of banter for me. "Andraste's Hairy Eyeball" is still the first thing that comes to my mind every time I see the loading icon for the Tapestry in Dragon Age Keep

And you're right, both the Chasind and the Avvar are descended from the Alamarri, but I don't recall seing a single ginger among them. There's still time, though

[helpthisguyplease]

One of the more memorable pieces of banter for me. "Andraste's Hairy Eyeball" is still the first thing that comes to my mind every time I see the loading icon for the Tapestry in Dragon Age Keep

And you're right, both the Chasind and the Avvar are descended from the Alamarri, but I don't recall seing a single ginger among them. There's still time, though

What color does the Avvar leader has?

[Iakus]

People talking to the Gods is normal... it's called prayer.

 

It's when the Gods start talking back you need to worry... it's called schizophrenia.

Unless you're chatting with Solas, Flemeth, Dumat, etc...

 

The thing is, in Thedas, if someone claims to have spoken to a "god", it's entirely possible they're telling the truth.  From a certain point of view 

[Former_Fiend]

Hawke: Met a god, got played.

 

Inquisitor: Met a god, got played.

 

Warden: Met two gods, murdered the hell out of both* of them.

 

*First one optionally.