24 réponses à ce sujet

[czeuch]

So I just played Tuchanka as a renegade FemShep... It was hard. Shooting Mordin in the back, seeing him crawling and dying close to the button. Then Wrex and Eve saying the nicest things to me... It hurt to be a bad guy (gal in that case).

[gothpunkboy89]

Give it a little time. You will feel worse

[themikefest]

How bad would you feel doing a playthrough like this? hahaha.   Excellent

[czeuch]

This guy was worse than me but I tried to role play a renegade as much as possible. Since I was after Platinum trophy on ME2, I saved everyone in the suicide mission.

But it's hard for me to make renegade choice in most cases.

[gothpunkboy89]

This guy was worse than me but I tried to role play a renegade as much as possible. Since I was after Platinum trophy on ME2, I saved everyone in the suicide mission.

But it's hard for me to make renegade choice in most cases.

 Play a little bit longer.

 

You let Wrex live in ME1. You will feel worse.

 

If you sabotage the cure Wreave needs to be the leader. Other wise things get much worse.

[czeuch]

I know I'll have to kill Wrex. I shot Mordin in the back. Can't the worse....

[themikefest]

You can play as a paragon and do more damage than a renegade depending on what you do in your playthrough

[Jukaga]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. True Mordin from ME2 smiles upon Shepard killing this foul doppleganger. You did the right thing.

[czeuch]

I don't follow... Why foul doppelganger?

[Jukaga]

eh, he basically throws out all of his sound reasoning from ME2 and decides to risk the future of the galaxy to assuage his conscience. At least with Eve dead and Wreav in charge you can talk him down. Either way he has at most a year or two left in his natural lifespan, a small price to pay for securing the galaxy from krogan infestation.

[IndianaJonesYay]

I don't think he throws out his reasoning. He says himself in the med bay he doesn't regret any of his choices. Given the circumstances in each instance, he did the right thing. It was right to modify the genophage because the krogan couldn't handle their own expansion (in his view). However, when new circumstances arose (namely, Eve and/or Wrex with their new "let's not kill everybody and get revenge but try to be part of the galaxy" attitude), Mordin saw it was time to cure the genophage.

[gothpunkboy89]

eh, he basically throws out all of his sound reasoning from ME2 and decides to risk the future of the galaxy to assuage his conscience. At least with Eve dead and Wreav in charge you can talk him down. Either way he has at most a year or two left in his natural lifespan, a small price to pay for securing the galaxy from krogan infestation.

 

He also never interacted with the Korgan. Only looking at it from a spectator perspective. STG wasn't down there with the korgans. They were in a separate area studying them covertly.

[Jukaga]

I don't think he throws out his reasoning. He says himself in the med bay he doesn't regret any of his choices. Given the circumstances in each instance, he did the right thing. It was right to modify the genophage because the krogan couldn't handle their own expansion (in his view). However, when new circumstances arose (namely, Eve and/or Wrex with their new "let's not kill everybody and get revenge but try to be part of the galaxy" attitude), Mordin saw it was time to cure the genophage.

 

Rational Mordin wouldn't conclude the whole species has changed based on Wrex and Eve alone. How are they supposed to have ANY influence on the disparate clans once they start popping out millions of younglings every year? The whole genophage arc needed some nuance. Why a full cure and nothing else? Why not limit krogan reproduction biologically to something that is sustainable given their huge life spans. Any MOO player knows you gotta kill off the Sakkras early or they'll paint the map.

[Jukaga]

He also never interacted with the Korgan. Only looking at it from a spectator perspective. STG wasn't down there with the korgans. They were in a separate area studying them covertly.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying, but recall that Mordin mentions being in the field and on the ground on Tuchanka seeding the new genophage. At some point his team was even detected and almost got caught.

[KaiserShep]

The Mordin I encountered in ME2 was clearly affected deeply by his role in the continued use of the genophage, and had his own little crisis of faith to boot. He even considered the loss of the rachni at the end of the rachni wars to be tragic, claiming that all life was precious. I wasn't surprised at all to see his turn in ME3. I don't really see a second modification being really feasible, but rather just curing the two krogan on the ship. It would ensure that the krogan can more easily keep their numbers up, and provide Wrex with leverage to maintain control. 

[gothpunkboy89]

I'm not sure what you're saying, but recall that Mordin mentions being in the field and on the ground on Tuchanka seeding the new genophage. At some point his team was even detected and almost got caught.

 

 

Exactly they were almost caught. He wasn't there to see the first hand experience the genophage caused. Yes the krogan destroyed their own home world and started a war. But he didn't see how the effect of the genophage broke their spirits. If his statement is correct and all the genophage does is limit their population to Pre industrial levels. Taking into account their now lack of predators to keep their numbers from growing far to out of control. Then why is breeding for them such an issue? Why are they continually dropping in numbers? Why are Krogan by the millions leaving their planet giving up on their species to become mercinaries and at least do something they like until they die?

 

His position in STG would prevent him from seeing this first hand. His time with shepard and actually interacting with Krogan on Tuchunka would open his eyes to the real effect of what the genophage did to the krogan.

[von uber]

Sorry, but logical thoughts about the eventual genocide of the galaxy by a vengeful krogan (after the murder of Wrex as his powerbase is destroyed ) is trumped every time by feeelllzzz.

Far better would have been a virmire stand of mark 2, where you can argue with Wrex and point out what curing the genophage would mean for his support and his ideas.
That would have been a far more nuanced arc.

[czeuch]

How come a paragon can cause more damage than a renegade?

Tricking the krogan to avoid their fast breeding and ensuring salarian support seems the most logical choice for the situation, but betraying 2 good friends is tough. They only make it worse... I get emails from Eve, I gave an interview to Diana about the cure... I just finished Citadel II so I should face the consequences soon.

[KaiserShep]

Sorry, but logical thoughts about the eventual genocide of the galaxy by a vengeful krogan (after the murder of Wrex as his powerbase is destroyed ) is trumped every time by feeelllzzz.

Far better would have been a virmire stand of mark 2, where you can argue with Wrex and point out what curing the genophage would mean for his support and his ideas.
That would have been a far more nuanced arc.

 

I always wondered about the logistics of this apparently krogan apocalypse that arises from a cured population. Are they just going to build their own fleet of warships? If so, are they going to do it underground where no spy satellites can spot them? 

 

In any case, I don't really see a scenario that works in this case to simply argue with Wrex. I guess the problem is numbers. The trilogy establishes that the krogan simply cannot afford to fight both a protracted war with anyone and maintain a viable population, so presumably, if they go to war with the reapers (or anyone) as they are, they're pretty much done for. All that stuff he was doing in ME2 worked so long as the krogan only had each other to worry about. As I said before, a reasonable compromise would be to have key members of the species receive the cure, namely he, Bakara, and perhaps some others that he trusts, as well as Grunt if he's still alive. With the cure firmly within his own core group, Wrex is basically in control over his species' future. 

 

Of course, if the plot went that way, that thread would begin and end in the Normandy's conference room. The rest would simply be stopping the reaper from poisoning Tuchanka's atmosphere with the shroud. Personally I kind of prefer the genophage plot as it is. All this stuff about arguing with Wrex a second time doesn't really appeal to me. 

[themikefest]

How come a paragon can cause more damage than a renegade?

Poor decisions. Not doing enough to make sure the mission has no casualties

 

ME1

A paragon can have Wrex killed on Virmire without taking any renegade points

A paragon can have the council killed when choosing the fleet to concentrate on Sovereign. In a paragon playthrough, I did that and only received 8 renegade points. It was the only renegade points I got

Do not do anything that will help Kirrahe stay alive

 

ME2

Recruit everyone. Do not get upgrades for the ship. 3 squadmates die no matter what. A squadmate is killed if sent in the vent that is not loyal or qualified. If only 8 squadmates were recruited, the crew will not have an escort to get them safely back to the Normandy. Depending on what the player chooses, only 2 squadmates could be alive

 

Or recruit everyone and choose not to send an escort with the crew. Have Tali, Samara, Legion survive and an unloyal Zaeed, Grunt, Miranda survive

 

ME3

Pranley is killed because Jack is not alive

Zaeed will die fighting the other bounty hunters

Grunt will die because he's not loyal

Samara will kill herself because you ignored the interrupt

Miranda will die because she isn't loyal. Of course there are other ways that can lead to her death on Sanctuary even if she is loyal

salarian councilor is killed because Thane died during the suicide mission and Kirrahe died on Virmire

Have a squadmate shoot Ashley/Kaidan during the coup

If Wrex is alive and the player shoot Padok, Shepard will receive renegade points

Wrex is killed on the Citadel without Shepard getting any renegade points

choose the geth over the quarians. Tali will commit suicied and legion will shut itself down

don't talk to Steve. He will die in London

go to Earth with ems below 200 causing both squadmates to be killed

if ems is below 1750 and destroy is the only option, Earth is scorched

 

I did a playthrough similiar to above as a paragon with having 95% blue and 5% red. I also did the playthrough with Shepard surviving and I had the memorial wall completely filled with names. Both columns filled(48) and Anderson(49) in the middle. That's a lot of damage that a paragon can do.

 

I have done a renegade playthrough with only Ashley/Kaidan killed on Virmire and edibot destroyed when I picked destroy. I've also done a renegade playthrough with everyone recruited. Wrex alive because Mordin cured the genophage. Got peace between the geth and quarians. The only deaths were Kaidan on Virmire, Thane during the coup. The edibot fried when I chose destroy. Legion uploading the code and as mentioned, Mordin curing the genophage

 

It all depends on what a player wants to do in a playthrough

[cap and gown]

eh, he basically throws out all of his sound reasoning from ME2 and decides to risk the future of the galaxy to assuage his conscience. At least with Eve dead and Wreav in charge you can talk him down. Either way he has at most a year or two left in his natural lifespan, a small price to pay for securing the galaxy from krogan infestation.

 

Err, actually, with either Bakara or Wrex alive he has at most 30 seconds to live. If Shepard doesn't kill him at the base of the tower, then he will die at the top of the tower. The OP might wish to consider that. The OP might also wish to consider that Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians to delay the Reaper invasion by a mere 3 months. If one dead Salarian is the price needed for Salarian help on the Crucible, a life that will be over in a few seconds anyway no matter what Shepard does, could that not be considered worth it?

[czeuch]

I shot Mordin at the base and he didn't die. He took the elevator up and crawled but died close to the console.

About the 300k batarians, I didn't play that DLC. Is that the reason why Shepard got relieved from duty?

Is that when the mass relay is blown and the batarians lose their homeworld? If so, 300k is not top much of a loss for losing a home world.

[themikefest]

I shot Mordin at the base and he didn't die. He took the elevator up and crawled but died close to the console.

Yep He also dies at the top if the genophage is cured

[gothpunkboy89]

Poor decisions. Not doing enough to make sure the mission has no casualties

 

ME1

A paragon can have Wrex killed on Virmire without taking any renegade points

A paragon can have the council killed when choosing the fleet to concentrate on Sovereign. In a paragon playthrough, I did that and only received 8 renegade points. It was the only renegade points I got

Do not do anything that will help Kirrahe stay alive

 

ME2

Recruit everyone. Do not get upgrades for the ship. 3 squadmates die no matter what. A squadmate is killed if sent in the vent that is not loyal or qualified. If only 8 squadmates were recruited, the crew will not have an escort to get them safely back to the Normandy. Depending on what the player chooses, only 2 squadmates could be alive

 

Or recruit everyone and choose not to send an escort with the crew. Have Tali, Samara, Legion survive and an unloyal Zaeed, Grunt, Miranda survive

 

ME3

Pranley is killed because Jack is not alive

Zaeed will die fighting the other bounty hunters

Grunt will die because he's not loyal

Samara will kill herself because you ignored the interrupt

Miranda will die because she isn't loyal. Of course there are other ways that can lead to her death on Sanctuary even if she is loyal

salarian councilor is killed because Thane died during the suicide mission and Kirrahe died on Virmire

Have a squadmate shoot Ashley/Kaidan during the coup

If Wrex is alive and the player shoot Padok, Shepard will receive renegade points

Wrex is killed on the Citadel without Shepard getting any renegade points

choose the geth over the quarians. Tali will commit suicied and legion will shut itself down

don't talk to Steve. He will die in London

go to Earth with ems below 200 causing both squadmates to be killed

if ems is below 1750 and destroy is the only option, Earth is scorched

 

I did a playthrough similiar to above as a paragon with having 95% blue and 5% red. I also did the playthrough with Shepard surviving and I had the memorial wall completely filled with names. Both columns filled(48) and Anderson(49) in the middle. That's a lot of damage that a paragon can do.

 

I have done a renegade playthrough with only Ashley/Kaidan killed on Virmire and edibot destroyed when I picked destroy. I've also done a renegade playthrough with everyone recruited. Wrex alive because Mordin cured the genophage. Got peace between the geth and quarians. The only deaths were Kaidan on Virmire, Thane during the coup. The edibot fried when I chose destroy. Legion uploading the code and as mentioned, Mordin curing the genophage

 

It all depends on what a player wants to do in a playthrough

 

 

poor decisions not quite the same as paragon or renegade play though like your earlier post suggested.  Paragon or renegade a poor play though results in a much worse ending.

[themikefest]

poor decisions not quite the same as paragon or renegade play though like your earlier post suggested.  Paragon or renegade a poor play though results in a much worse ending.

Poor decisions do not lead to a bad ending. Poor playthroughs do not result in a bad ending. Both can lead to a bad ending depending on what the player chooses to do in that playthrough.