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[Heimdall]

I've been talking about the idea of having some form of origin stories, not on the same scope as Origins, in DA4 in various threads, so I decided to take the time to rough out a scenario and see how people respond to it.

 

In my imagining of DA4, the Qunari invasion is well underway.  We would start in a Tevinter city, not Minrathous, which is soon to be attacked by a Qunari fleet, possible that night.  Refugees are struggling to leave, but the City's leaders are doing their best to conscript the citizens and slaves to fight the invaders.  We start as:

 

• Qunari Slave - Having been taken from the Qun at a young age, this origin has the PC as a slave of the city's leading Altus family.  If they are a mage, their master has given them training as a way to mock the Qun.  During the day we would be sent on errands, allowing us to see the area, perform quests, and generally get a handle on Tevinter society and how your character fits into it.  The PC is forced into service on the night of the invasion. I chose this option because Bioware will never make a Qun adhering Qunari an origin, its strictures are too alien to force on new players and too difficult to compensate for in a story that has to accommodate more typical characters.  This option allows a non-Qun adherent Qunari without repeating the Tal Vashoth mercenary background.

 

• Dwarven Ambassadoria - The dwarven PC is a member of the dwarven surfacers in the City under the jurisdiction of the Ambassadoria, the PC is made to help the dwarves get their people ready and out of the city, but it is revealed that the Ambassadoria struck a deal with the City leaders to leave them some of their best fighters in exchange for giving them freedom to leave the City, which includes the PC.  The PC is conscripted to fight the invasion.  The Ambassadoria seems to be more in touch with their cultural roots than the Merchant's Guild despite being surfacers, so it seems like a good compromise to give a fresh perspective on dwarves while not entering too unfamiliar territory like Kal Sharok (Which we can hopefully explore in the game)

 

• Elven Soporati/Laetan - This is basically the commoner origin, the elven PC's family is trying to flee the city, the questline here would involve finding a way to get out of the city and eventually lead to either the PC enlisting to get their family out or getting tricked into getting caught as a distraction by a treacherous cousin so the rest of the family can escape (Or something like that). They could also slip in a reference to Solas' agents or something. Since I gave the slave origin to Qunari, I didn't want to repeat it, and I'd like to have a commoner level origin available.  This is basically a bit like the city elf origin.

 

• Human Altus - The human PC is a child of the most powerful Altus family in the city, whose patriarch refuses to abandon the city or let any of his family do so.  The story here would be a political one, family secrets and backstabbing.  Ultimately night falls and everyone that can fight is called to the defense, even an Altus.  Humans are the only ones that can be Altus, and I think offering the nobility option is important for variety.  I imagine even a non-mage would remain part of the household even if they weren't exactly going to get much in the way of inheritance.  This way we have a whole spread of Tevinter society to choose from.

 

Each of these origins would start the invasion with a different perspective, starting with a very dramatic barrage of Dreadnought cannon fire and landing of troops on the beach with Tevinter magical defense, but in the chaos they would all end up at the same place, the Altus (The very same that owns the Qunari slave and the Human belongs to) family vault, which has been broken open with magic.  There they encounter Fen'Harel's agents/other villainous agents and neutralize them (or they escape, whatever serves the wider plot) and the new PC realizes they are trapped.  Enter Lace Harding who leads you out of the city and takes you to Dorian to tell what you saw.  End Prologue.

 

That last part could vary a lot, but this is my basic idea.  The advantage of this is that there can be a lot of overlap in content between these origins, especially locations.  It might be possible to return to the city later, so they can use the assets again.

 

EDIT: And ideally each origin would have a personal quest based on loose ends from the prologue (The Qunari slave might encounter slave catchers or maybe some link to his past, like meeting his/her old Tamassran, the elven Soporati might look for their family, the dwarven Ambassadoria might get dragged into the politics between the Ambassadoria and the Imperium, the Altus might have to deal with their remaining family's reduced political status)

 

Optimally, each of these would be a quest chain unlocked by the advancement of the main plot.

[diaspora2k5]

I'd wager that realistically, the Qunari is going to be another merc. A warrior/rogue human as a laetan, a mage human as a altus, and any elf as a slave. Dwarf will probably be ambassadoria though.

[Heimdall]

I'd wager that realistically, the Qunari is going to be another merc. A warrior/rogue human as a laetan, a mage human as a altus, and any elf as a slave. Dwarf will probably be ambassadoria though.

Laetans are mages.  All non-mage families are Soporati.  I'm not sure what it would mean for a human to be born a non-mage in an Altus family, but I doubt they'd be cast out (Just disinherited), so it could make for an interesting backstory to be a non-mage from an Altus family.

[diaspora2k5]

Laetans are mages.  All non-mage families are Soporati.  I'm not sure what it would mean for a human to be born a non-mage in an Altus family, but I doubt they'd be cast out (Just disinherited), so it could make for an interesting backstory to be a non-mage from an Altus family.

You're right. That's what I was trying to get at- rogue/warrior humans as commoners/soldiers.

[leaguer of one]

I approve. Then something horrible happens, the pc becomes an out law because of it. They become a pirate/corsair.

[Regan_Cousland]

Nice idea, Heimdall. A night-time qunari invasion sounds like an exciting introduction. I'm imagining it being similar in tone to the Battle of Ostagar. First the rising tension as the quanari dreadnoughts move closer to shore and your PC takes his place (either willingly or reluctantly) alongside the beach's defenders, then the sudden fervour of battle -- and then mounting terror as the Tevinter forces realize they're outmatched and people start to scramble to survive and escape. 

[vbibbi]

It would be interesting if Bioware deviated from past backgrounds and restructured it so that it was the social class which determines the background more than race.

 

So, we can start as a slave, a soporati, a laetan, or an altus. Then we choose our race, based on compatibility with the class. Slaves can be any race except for dwarves, laetan and altus can only be human or elven. Do we know if there are any free kossith in Tevinter? Doesn't Dorian say that there are some Tal Vashoth around because the magisters like to highlight defectors from the Qun?

 

I feel like in a society that revolves around magical ability, there needs to be a stronger distinction between mage versus non-mage. I would expect a slave with magic to have a very different background than a slave without magic. Of course, if they go the DAI route and don't heavily involve backgrounds, they could just tweak the language like they did with the Dalish First/hunter or Ostwick noble/Circle mage.

 

I do hope that we can play as an ambassadorian dwarf. That would be a unique culture from the Orzammar dwarves and surface dwarves we've seen so far, and the Kal-Sharok dwarves are too foreign to be playable, as you say.

 

It would be interesting to either play as Tal-Vashoth or Vashoth, but only if the Vashoth background were given more detail than in DAI. I want to know if their culture is significantly different than the Qun, if it's still based on the Qun, or if it adapts to the dominant culture of where the Vashoth lives.

 

My thought is that the Inquisition/Dorian won't be introduced so early in the game. If Harding is a companion, I can see her being one of the first companions to recruit, but she would keep her allegiance quiet until she knew she could trust the PC. The introduction of Dorian/Maevaris/Inquisition would be the beginning of Act II, when we realize the Qunari invasion is not as important a threat as Solas.

[Heimdall]

It would be interesting to either play as Tal-Vashoth or Vashoth, but only if the Vashoth background were given more detail than in DAI. I want to know if their culture is significantly different than the Qun, if it's still based on the Qun, or if it adapts to the dominant culture of where the Vashoth lives.

Well, my impression is that Vashoth are too few and don't really create communities to really develop a distinct culture, so they'd most likely take after those around them.

[leaguer of one]

 

 

It would be interesting to either play as Tal-Vashoth or Vashoth, but only if the Vashoth background were given more detail than in DAI. I want to know if their culture is significantly different than the Qun, if it's still based on the Qun, or if it adapts to the dominant culture of where the Vashoth lives.

 

 

The easy short answer is yes. The long answer is that it's not as complex are you think. Though it's not the qun they simply don't have cultural norms. They are few in number, Outsider, and are treated as ether lepers, a curiosity or suspicion. They don't have a place to make a culture. It's a mix of what they knew from the qun and of what ever the area's culture would be. More so with the vashoth. They are more refugees.

[Arshei]

Finally good blood magic ♥

[leaguer of one]

It would be interesting if Bioware deviated from past backgrounds and restructured it so that it was the social class which determines the background more than race.

 

 

That's a good idea.

[Jaison1986]

Qunari protagonist wouldn't work on DA4. Dorian himself said in Trespasser that Bull could never come with him to Tevinter, as he would likely get attacked on sight. Honestly, I would just stick to human and elven protagonist. Qunari and dwarf were totally sidelined in DAI with little to no story relevance to their race. Why bother?

[leaguer of one]

Qunari protagonist wouldn't work on DA4. Dorian himself said in Trespasser that Bull could never come with him to Tevinter, as he would likely get attacked on sight. Honestly, I would just stick to human and elven protagonist. Qunari and dwarf were totally sidelined in DAI with little to no story relevance to their race. Why bother?

Of couse they can work. Just give them a slave back ground and it works.

[MortallyDead]

• Qunari Slave - Having been taken from the Qun at a young age, this origin has the PC as a slave of the city's leading Altus family.  If they are a mage, their master has given them training as a way to mock the Qun.  During the day we would be sent on errands, allowing us to see the area, perform quests, and generally get a handle on Tevinter society and how your character fits into it.  The PC is forced into service on the night of the invasion. I chose this option because Bioware will never make a Qun adhering Qunari an origin, its strictures are too alien to force on new players and too difficult to compensate for in a story that has to accommodate more typical characters.  This option allows a non-Qun adherent Qunari without repeating the Tal Vashoth mercenary background.

I agree that they'll never do it, but personally I think that Qun adhering Qunari would be bitchin.

[Jaison1986]

Of couse they can work. Just give them a slave back ground and it works.

 

Oh, and you are going to play as an slave for the entire game? The point is that qunari can't come and go freely in Tevinter. Would you expect them to meddle in the affairs of tevinters and get away with it? 

[leaguer of one]

Oh, and you are going to play as an slave for the entire game? The point is that qunari can't come and go freely in Tevinter. Would you expect them to meddle in the affairs of tevinters and get away with it? 

Dude, this is just a background and origin. It's not the total story. You were not a casteless dwarf only in ozamarr all of dao.

[vbibbi]

Oh, and you are going to play as an slave for the entire game? The point is that qunari can't come and go freely in Tevinter. Would you expect them to meddle in the affairs of tevinters and get away with it? 

 

It's all about the presentation of how the protagonist's race fits into the narrative. I think all four races will be playable in DA4, regardless of the logic. It made sense in DAO, since Grey Wardens are known to be criminals, political enemies, journalists, and other types of undesirables.

 

Quite frankly, I don't think it worked as well in DAI, as a non-human Herald of Andraste was accepted much too easily and quickly for me. I think there would have been more consequences from the conservative Andrasteans and political enemies in the Chantry seeking to discredit the Inquisition by showing someone who is not even part of the religion claiming to be touched by the most important religious figure in their history. But this is partially as a result of adding in race selection after the majority of the game had been developed.

 

If Bioware incorporates race selection from the beginning of the development cycle for DA4, I hope that they will make it realistic and logical. If a Qunari/kossith starts out as a slave, have there be consequences for being a freed/escaped slave in the Tevinter Imperium and don't just handwave that "well now they're the chosen one and everyone is OK with them."

[Snowy-Ninja]

If there is race selection in the next game I wonder if we will get the option to be an elf, i know that we will because I doubt those who adore elves will tolerate not being able to be one but I do wonder since the end of trespasser seemed to make us think a lot of elves just up and left their old lives behind. Could be interesting to not have the option and wonder what happened to the elven population.

 

Personally I'd rather the human not be a noble again, I'd rather it be a slave or a commoner who rose to become a hero sounds much more interesting. Or least having the option to choose between commoner and noble like the dwarf orgins in DAO. Being a noble in Tevinter would be a refreshing change but being a commer just seems much more interesting, Personally I'd like to see the Anders people because they sound like the most interesting humans.

I like your Dwarven and elven idea's though, I do like your idea for the Qunari but I also like the idea of a Merc Qunari working in Tevinter or perhaps a Qunari spy as that would give us more insight into the Qun as a whole and maybe the option to break away from the Qun as Bull did.

As for how the story starts, I'd say it'd be something that Harding has to save you from and your introduced to Dorian and his friends later in the game. I think meeting Dorian right away but be a little to much as i suspect he won't be a companion in the next game. Rather I'd like him to show up around the same time Hawke / warden / Morrigan did in DAI (depending on your choices) But harding appearing first and saving you and dragging you into the Inquisitors plot to stop the dread wolf is a good idea. 

Personally I just want to see Blood magic be put to good use and learn more about reavers and Qunari.

[AresKeith]

Qunari protagonist wouldn't work on DA4. Dorian himself said in Trespasser that Bull could never come with him to Tevinter, as he would likely get attacked on sight. Honestly, I would just stick to human and elven protagonist. Qunari and dwarf were totally sidelined in DAI with little to no story relevance to their race. Why bother?

Because this time they would be planned from the start than being last minute add ons

[Heimdall]

If there is race selection in the next game I wonder if we will get the option to be an elf, i know that we will because I doubt those who adore elves will tolerate not being able to be one but I do wonder since the end of trespasser seemed to make us think a lot of elves just up and left their old lives behind. Could be interesting to not have the option and wonder what happened to the elven population.

 

Personally I'd rather the human not be a noble again, I'd rather it be a slave or a commoner who rose to become a hero sounds much more interesting. Or least having the option to choose between commoner and noble like the dwarf orgins in DAO. Being a noble in Tevinter would be a refreshing change but being a commer just seems much more interesting, Personally I'd like to see the Anders people because they sound like the most interesting humans.

Some elves, not all elves or even most elves.  Though it still could be interesting if a family member of the elven PC turns out to have been recruited by Solas.

 

The problem is that humans are really the only way to give a noble option, while other races can be commoners.  That's why I gave the commoner origin to the elf origin.

[vbibbi]

Some elves, not all elves or even most elves.  Though it still could be interesting if a family member of the elven PC turns out to have been recruited by Solas.

 

The problem is that humans are really the only way to give a noble option, while other races can be commoners.  That's why I gave the commoner origin to the elf origin.

 

Another option would be no noble background option at all in DA4. I could see the devs wanting to distance the player's ability to identify with the Evil Tevinter Magisters^TM that we've known for the past three games, and limit our ability to play as someone with power. It would make the ability to reform the Imperium be more clear cut as "I was oppressed in this sytem all of my life and now I'm going to change it!" rather than "I lived as a pampered magister-in-waiting all of my life, but now I'm rebelling."

 

In order for the second scenario to work, I think the PC would have to already have some degree of familiarity with Dorian, as he is the voice of reform amongst the upper class. And that would require more customization of Dorian's interactions with the PC than is worth the resources. IMO of course.

[JadeDragon]

A noble origin is a must to display just how better treated mages are in tevinter. Why tease for three games how mages are high in the hierarchies only to have the mag human not be a noble. Thats like making the dwarf not the ambassador or elf a non slave or commoner. My ideal origin for human mage is to give us a dark noble family. Like reverse the cousland origin were instead of the good noble family you are apart of a morally evil noble family from slaves to misuse of blood magic and they betray and outcast you. And maybe follow up on it later ingame to become a magister and head of your house. If each race and class is going to use the social system in tevinter it would be nice to see one or two follow up quest on your origin mid and end game.

[vbibbi]

A noble origin is a must to display just how better treated mages are in tevinter. Why tease for three games how mages are high in the hierarchies only to have the mag human not be a noble. Thats like making the dwarf not the ambassador or elf a non slave or commoner. My ideal origin for human mage is to give us a dark noble family. Like reverse the cousland origin were instead of the good noble family you are apart of a morally evil noble family from slaves to misuse of blood magic and they betray and outcast you. And maybe follow up on it later ingame to become a magister and head of your house. If each race and class is going to use the social system in tevinter it would be nice to see one or two follow up quest on your origin mid and end game.

But that seems like a large diversion of playstyle for one background option. DAI didn't offer an "evil" Inquisitor path because that would have required too much work to create alternate paths to the main story to be plausible. If we can play as an evil magister as a human, and as an oppressed rebellious non-human slave, those should be two distinct playthroughs, not the same gameplay with "evil" dialogue options added in.

[JadeDragon]

I never said we play evil. Our family can be evil doesn't mean we have to be. Thats why i said we get outcasted and later have the option to reform our house and become the head. I wanted a family the opposite of the couslands but the pc morals should be different

[Heimdall]

I never said we play evil. Our family can be evil doesn't mean we have to be. Thats why i said we get outcasted and later have the option to reform our house and become the head. I wanted a family the opposite of the couslands but the pc morals should be different

That could probably work into the prologue I described for the Altus.

But I should mention that part of my reason for putting the prologue together this way is that it leaves all origins in a similar situation. With their city gone, the Altus' family has lost much of its power and political clout, which gives the slave a lot more freedom, for instance.