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[vbibbi]

Going backward: Final Fantasy really didn't start doing direct sequels until 10, and that was because it was so popular(even 7 which is the touchstone for the series didn't get a sequel). Twelve, which was also a SP not an MMO didn't have a direct sequel, but 13 got two, supposedly because they'd left so much on the cutting room floor. What generally ties FF games together are concepts like Black and White magic (offensive and defensive) summoning, the later ones have a lot of "magitech" going on (from 6 in Japan, which was sold as 3 here in the states). So it's a yes and no kind of thing with FF since only two of an insane amount of games got true sequels. I also know there was at least one FF 7 tie in game, but I'm not sure I'd call it a sequel.

Final Fantasy does show you can sustain a franchise on different protagonists, but at the same time every mainline game has been set in a different world as well, so your mileage may very. Along with the fact JRPGs have set protagonists as a rule, thus in a lot of ways it's actually easier to write a sequel since there's a more linear path for the player to follow.

As I said earlier about the IQ, I'm not sure how popular she'd be in North Thedas right now. And there's the fact a lot of people were complaining originally that the IQ shouldn't be running around doing "fill in the blank" and this was when she was a nobody with a questionable title. I would give it twenty minutes before people rushed back here and made the same complaints with DA4 if the IQ was the protag (and some of them would probably be people advocating the IQ's return ), especially if the character started at level one again while supposedly being the most powerful person in the world. Then there's reconstructing the character without a save import, and if they tweak the system how it might translate. (ie what happens if they choose not to use a specific spec again because it just was overpowered or didn't fit as intended.)

You don't have that kind of baggage with a new PC.

OK, I am now imagining the mushroom cloud of rage if the Inquisitor comes back as PC in DA4...but is stuck with DAI's hairstyles, while the rest of the NPCs have lovely new flowing locks.

[Ariella]

OK, I am now imagining the mushroom cloud of rage if the Inquisitor comes back as PC in DA4...but is stuck with DAI's hairstyles, while the rest of the NPCs have lovely new flowing locks.

That is so sick... I love it. I just love it. I salute you for coming up with a new way to break BSN. I didn't think there would be one.

[vbibbi]

That is so sick... I love it. I just love it. I salute you for coming up with a new way to break BSN. I didn't think there would be one.

Unfortunately*, Trespasser eliminated the trauma of the beige pajamas, otherwise playing as the Inquisitor could have been even better! Buzzcut McSlumberware Trevelyan would stand no chance against Dorian's fashionista clique.

 

 

 

*not unfortunately, obviously.

[Aren]

That's the reason BioWare has made the protagonist a foreigner in the past. That way they could ask stupid questions that they should already know if they're a native and it won't seem weird. There's also a trend of each new hero being from the country that the last game was set in (probably so returning players could have knowledge and a connection to that country of origin). Hawke was from Ferelden where DA:O was set and the Inquisitor was from the Free Marches where DA2 was set. If they continue that trend, then the next new PC may go to Tevinter but will be either from Ferelden or Orlais.

Why not from Tevinter?It's much simple

[Regan_Cousland]

Inquisitions story was weaker because of the recycled story of "I'm a bad guy, try and stop me", and we had no reason to care much. Killing Corypheus as Hawke would have been so much more satisfying, especially since they come along and all but vow to end him. If they do this again, reduce Solas to a recycled villain and expect lingering feelings from the Inquisitor to carry over to New PC, i will be quite upset. We all have more of a reason to care about Solas than we ever did Cory. 

 

Agreed.

 

This might seem like a hyperbolic statement -- a knee-jerk reaction to playing Tresspasser and speaking with like-minded people here on BSN -- but it isn't:

I honestly think that Solas is already the best villain we've encountered in a Dragon Age game, simply because of the slow and thoughtful way he's been introduced, and because of the complex interpersonal dynamic he shares with our hero.

Remove the inquisitor from the equation and Solas loses a lot of that uniqueness. To any new protagonist, he's a just another Logain or Meredith who needs to be stopped. And all of our positive feelings towards him become illogical, meta-game emotions that our new hero really shouldn't possess. 

That -- I've just realized -- is one of the main drawbacks of playing as new hero in a game whose narrative overlaps with the previous game's narrative ...

 

We, as players, are not capable of erasing our real-life memories and judging NPCs we already know through fresh eyes. That disrupts immersion, because it turns our newest PC into an omniscient being who can draw on the experiences and emotions of the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor when making decisions that she should be making blind.

For example -- how many people allowed Hawke to live instead of Stroud because of their real-life affection towards a past PC? And how many people saved Alistair so that he could continue to be happy with their female Warden? The latter being a person the inquisitor didn't even know and who shouldn't, therefore, have influenced her decision whatsoever. lol

Similarly, is our new PC supposed to be merciful towards Solas, during a crucial encounter, simply because she has the meta ability to re-live every event in the inquisitor's life and therefore perceive the good in him? 

(I hope I explained that clearly. It's quite a tricky topic, and I'm not entirely sure my use of the word "meta" was accurate. lol)

[Heimdall]

Dual protagonist makes my head hurt. And more seriously it worries me about how much they could put into each narrative. They're aren't going to be able to do enough for both, imo, without sacrificing something because there are just too many options for the IQ and her background/sex/race, then there's the new character and its background/sex/race. As I understand it GTA V had three protagonists but they were set so there's not much branching in the way of story and background.

If they could do it without huge amounts of screaming from fans about how dull the backgrounds are or because they did some kind of limit in some way... Of course this is BSN, but honestly I'd like to keep these guys from having coronaries every time they release a game. Working at Bioware has got to be Hell on the blood pressure.

Well, I'd like to see it done so that the Inquisitor's role is limited to specific non-combat but puzzle, wartable and dialogue driven gameplay sections that have an affect on the world the new PC is playing in, the new PC being the primary actor while the Inquistor still gets to work against Solas (And probably talk to him at the end).  Contact between the two would be mediated through Dorian.

 

A 50/50 split wouldn't work.

[Ariella]

Well, I'd like to see it done so that the Inquisitor's role is limited to specific non-combat but puzzle, wartable and dialogue driven gameplay sections that have an affect on the world the new PC is playing in, the new PC being the primary actor while the Inquistor still gets to work against Solas (And probably talk to him at the end). Contact between the two would be mediated through Dorian.

A 50/50 split wouldn't work.

That I can see, though I'd go more 60/40 new pc/ IQ.

We all know by now that on BSN there is a group who believe that Bioware can do no right. I'd like to think said group is small but vocal, at the same time however some of them seem really good at whipping up a lynch mob.

So it becomes a question of whether such a system would be the new open world or not. It takes a really talented complainer to take on the idea that someone is doing a single protagonist system wrong.

Then again, this is the Bioware Social Network. I probably shouldn't bet the house on that.

[Nefla]

Why not from Tevinter?It's much simple

Because apparently players need their hand held at all times and if the PC is a foreigner then the PC can be treated like an ignoramus and have things blatantly explained to them without it being awkward. If the PC is a local then the information would have to be presented in a more clever way and probably be integrated visually and as part of the story and the dialogue would have to be written differently than "what is ____?" with the person explaining it to you like a Wikipedia article. 

[vbibbi]

Agreed.

 

This might seem like a hyperbolic statement -- a knee-jerk reaction to playing Tresspasser and speaking with like-minded people here on BSN -- but it isn't:

I honestly think that Solas is already the best villain we've encountered in a Dragon Age game, simply because of the slow and thoughtful way he's been introduced, and because of the complex interpersonal dynamic he shares with our hero.

Remove the inquisitor from the equation and Solas loses a lot of that uniqueness. To any new protagonist, he's a just another Logain or Meredith who needs to be stopped. And all of our positive feelings towards him become illogical, meta-game emotions that our new hero really shouldn't possess. 

That -- I've just realized -- is one of the main drawbacks of playing as new hero in a game whose narrative overlaps with the previous game's narrative ...

 

We, as players, are not capable of erasing our real-life memories and judging NPCs we already know through fresh eyes. That disrupts immersion, because it turns our newest PC into an omniscient being who can draw on the experiences and emotions of the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor when making decisions that she should be making blind.

For example -- how many people allowed Hawke to live instead of Stroud because of their real-life affection towards a past PC? And how many people saved Alistair so that he could continue to be happy with their female Warden? The latter being a person the inquisitor didn't even know and who shouldn't, therefore, have influenced her decision whatsoever. lol

Similarly, is our new PC supposed to be merciful towards Solas, during a crucial encounter, simply because she has the meta ability to re-live every event in the inquisitor's life and therefore perceive the good in him? 

(I hope I explained that clearly. It's quite a tricky topic, and I'm not entirely sure my use of the word "meta" was accurate. lol)

True, but it is hard (for me at least) to adequately restrict my meta knowledge when playing a game. The best I can do is choose an option I personally wouldn't want, because I knew the PC couldn't know that it's not the "best" option. I guess I'm not a great roleplayer, as meta knowledge affects how I play after the first run through. (My first game was Loghain as the Warden, but future games I changed it to Stroud, as I feel like he makes the most sense in relation to Hawke. But I can claim my Inquisitor saved Hawke for Varric's sake, not for my own attachment to him)

 

I really don't know how Bio will handle the PC's relationship with Solas. They have shown that they expect players to have some meta knowledge (TME providing much more characterization about Celene, Gaspard, and Briala than WEWH ever did, The Stolen Throne providing Loghain's background and making his in-game actions more understandable)

 

Because apparently players need their hand held at all times and if the PC is a foreigner then the PC can be treated like an ignoramus and have things blatantly explained to them without it being awkward. If the PC is a local then the information would have to be presented in a more clever way and probably be integrated visually and as part of the story and the dialogue would have to be written differently than "what is ____?" with the person explaining it to you like a Wikipedia article. 

I think there could be a few ways to keep the PC from Tevinter and still catch the player up to speed. If we start as a slave, we would most likely not know too much beyond our work in the house. Unless we are a tutor or scribe or some similar service, so Bio would just have to restrict our role to manual labor.

 

If we're Tal Vashoth, we could just recently have escaped Qun-controlled land and are learning about Tevinter.

 

If we're from the dwarven ambassadoria, we could be a recent hire from Orzammar, so we haven't interacted with Tevinter much yet.

 

Not saying any of these are better ideas than having a non-Tevinter PC, just that there are some options.

[Ariella]

I think there could be a few ways to keep the PC from Tevinter and still catch the player up to speed. If we start as a slave, we would most likely not know too much beyond our work in the house. Unless we are a tutor or scribe or some similar service, so Bio would just have to restrict our role to manual labor.
 
If we're Tal Vashoth, we could just recently have escaped Qun-controlled land and are learning about Tevinter.
 
If we're from the dwarven ambassadoria, we could be a recent hire from Orzammar, so we haven't interacted with Tevinter much yet.
 
Not saying any of these are better ideas than having a non-Tevinter PC, just that there are some options.

Actually dwarves would finally give Bioware the chance to do what some have been screaming about for a while. Kal-Shirok since they trade with Tevinter IIRC. It makes sense since Tevinter needs to get lyrium from somewhere, and I can't imagine that since the Chantry controls Orzammar's lyrium trade, at least on the surface, they'd be happy if the dwarves were selling to the Vints as well.

[CardButton]

Dual protagonist makes my head hurt. And more seriously it worries me about how much they could put into each narrative. They're aren't going to be able to do enough for both, imo, without sacrificing something because there are just too many options for the IQ and her background/sex/race, then there's the new character and its background/sex/race. As I understand it GTA V had three protagonists but they were set so there's not much branching in the way of story and background.

I think you grossly overestimating just how much DA:i choices are going to influence the Inquisitor's presence in DA4, assuming they were allowed to return as PC. Really it would boil down to two key decisions (Save/Stop Solas), (Disband/Perserve Inquisition) and their relationships with Solas and Dorian.  Tevinter is an isolated enough setting that very little else would come into play, and honestly if they wanted to deal with some of the other choices that the Inquisitor made (like LIs) they could implement a similar Mail system like the Dot//Hack Games had.  Mail for the Inquisitor would simply be addressed to Dorian, who the Inquisitor can keep in constant contact with due to the gem.  Text boxes/Codex's in game (even those allowing for limited responses back to sender) would not be that difficult or expensive to program. The Inquistor's introduction to Tevinter is simple enough, they are the Dorian households new one-armed wretch of a slave.  He has admitted his family owns some, no one would notice one more.  If your an elf your already a slave in Tevinter, if your another race (even a Vashoth) no one would question why a person with one-arm would sell themselves into slavery.

 

As for the new PC, I don't see them working as anything other than a Human.  The chief benefit of having a new Tevinter PC is being able to get access to an insiders perspective on the country (which we would have been denied with a sole PC Inquisitor).  If they simply replace an outsider Inquisitor with another outsider, the new PC serves no other purpose than having a new Protagonist simply for the sake of having a new Protagonist (which is terrible narrative reasoning). As such with the exception of maybe the rare Dwarf and Qunari slave both those races are out, because one is Carta (again) and the other is an enemy of the state.  Elves would present a somewhat lessened problem for a protagonist (though still a problem), because they are literally a slave race.  Their perspective on the nation is incredibly limited, they have even less influence than the "Indentured Servants" of Tevinter due to the fact that their form of slavery can be passed down through families (which it cannot if you simply sell yourself) and unless they happen to have the nicest (or dumbest) master in the world there is very little reason for an Elf to be "allowed" to have any sort of martial or magic training (even self teaching yourself would be immensely dangerous).  Objectively despite living and being suppressed in Tevinter, Elves of Tevinter are also primarily outsiders (because they are being forced to live in their own world, apart from the rest of society). Namely, for the new PC to work to the best of their ability (essentially for them to justify replacing the Inquisitor) they would need to be based around a more Hawke style character format than that of a Warden and thus be probably Human.

 

In a dual PC story this would mean that the Inquisitor would have the option of race, but have their origin already defined; while the new PC would have the option of Origin, but have their race already defined.

[Regan_Cousland]

Well, I'd like to see it done so that the Inquisitor's role is limited to specific non-combat but puzzle, wartable and dialogue driven gameplay sections that have an affect on the world the new PC is playing in, the new PC being the primary actor while the Inquistor still gets to work against Solas (And probably talk to him at the end).  Contact between the two would be mediated through Dorian.

 

Everyone here knows I'd prefer the inquisitor to be the sole protagonist should Solas return, but that's an interesting alternative, Heimdall. I could see it working if the story is sufficiently well-written to justify the constant back-and-forth between PCs.

 

I imagine the inquisitor's segments would be similar to Telltale games: extremely story-centric and packed full of difficult decisions that impact the adventures of the Tevinter PC, who may or may not be the inquisitor's number-one agent in the hunt for Solas.

 

[vbibbi]

Actually dwarves would finally give Bioware the chance to do what some have been screaming about for a while. Kal-Shirok since they trade with Tevinter IIRC. It makes sense since Tevinter needs to get lyrium from somewhere, and I can't imagine that since the Chantry controls Orzammar's lyrium trade, at least on the surface, they'd be happy if the dwarves were selling to the Vints as well.

I really hope Kal Sharok features in the next game. I was really disappointed after reading the entry in WoT2 about "the Stone lives beneath Orlais" as I thought that would be referenced in game. Unless it's a reference to titans...in which case it's still not resolved.

 

I don't know if playing as a Kal Sharok dwarf is feasible, though, because they are secretive outcasts from the rest of the world, so playing as one would remove a lot of their mystique. I guess I'm thinking if there is an origin portion to the game, which doesn't seem likely. But it seems like it would be difficult to roleplay an isolated, secretive culture without severely altering dialogue options. Much like if we could play as a Qun following kossith.

[Nefla]

I think there could be a few ways to keep the PC from Tevinter and still catch the player up to speed. If we start as a slave, we would most likely not know too much beyond our work in the house. Unless we are a tutor or scribe or some similar service, so Bio would just have to restrict our role to manual labor.

 

If we're Tal Vashoth, we could just recently have escaped Qun-controlled land and are learning about Tevinter.

 

If we're from the dwarven ambassadoria, we could be a recent hire from Orzammar, so we haven't interacted with Tevinter much yet.

 

Not saying any of these are better ideas than having a non-Tevinter PC, just that there are some options.

I agree, I've just lost faith in BioWare.

[Ann'Nonnie'Mus]

Because this has never been about one character. It's about Thedas and the Dragon Age. And I certainly wouldn't call Hawke saving the world, or having a holiday after. Hell, that was one of many complaints about DA2, that she didn't save the world, or Kirkwall.
 

Thedas is only part of what da is about. And that doesn't change AT ALL with a returning protag. Thedas doesn't suddenly become a different place due to a returning protag, its not suddenly 'oh look thedas because we have a new protag!' and then, 'oh we're no longer in thedas because we have a returning protag.' It's still called thedas and the history of thedas is still the same as is the culture and so forth. And when you play the game you still make decisions that change thedas for better or worse. That, in no way, changes when you bring back a protag. ABSOLUTELY makes no difference.  

[Ann'Nonnie'Mus]

Thing is, it's not an argument. It's fact.

Of course, with Dragon Age, we’ve always been committed to providing an experience that has chapters, with new protagonists and news stories being told, because we see it as a series about a time and a place rather than an individual character.-Mike Laidlaw

http://www.gameinfor...hSVeH9I.twitter

So this is not some fan argument. It's the Devs perspective on the series.

As for caring about the world, if I may point out you have more access to different people as new PCs than you would carrying over from established ones. There are types of characters who might join the new PC rather than the Inquisitor for whatever reason, including the fact that that they want nothing to do with the Inquisitor. I can see that being especially true in Northern Thedas.

And it's also a fact that a returning protagonist doesn't take focus from thedas. New stories being told can also be done with a returning protag. So, yes, it's a weak argument. And you have JUST as much access to different PC's with a returning protag as you do an old. The inquisitor even says they need to find new people and point out their going into a new place. So as they go they meet new PCs and change events around THEDAS just as a new pc does.  

[AWTEW]

Nope, Mr/Ms cardboard emotion needs to go.

[CardButton]

Nope, Mr/Ms cardboard emotion needs to go.

You really only have yourself to blame if you couldn't make your own character interesting to you.  

[Ann'Nonnie'Mus]

You really only have yourself to blame if you couldn't make your own character interesting to you.  

I get why this would be said, makes sense. But at the same time I don't think quizy being bland was solely based on how the character could be played. I think it also had to do with background and the fact that it has little to no effect in game. I mean, if you play as a dalish apparently you can kill your entire clan and afterward nothing is said by companions. You also have no quests regarding it outside the wartable and never got an origin story. Things like this contributed into making the quizy a bad character. However I still want to play them in Da4, because their potential as a seriously awesome character with an awesome story skyrocketed with trespasser. And I don't really trust, I mean I think its possible but not likely, but I don't really trust BW to do any better with a new protag than they did with quizy. So I'd rather play the bad character whose now potentially an amazing character than getting to know an entirely new bad character. 

[Ashaantha]

I think the reason people got the whole Inquisitor has no personality thing, is because the Inquisitor was written to be neutral especially in auto-dialogue conversation lines. so no dominant over-excessed personality is used, the personality comes from the dialogue choices the player chooses, and yes they aren't over the top. Which is a big thing I love about DAI. I still like my Inquisitor best of all 3 protagonists, for multiple reasons and none of those includes Solas (in before I get accused of saying that solely because of that ugly elf).. Yes I would love my Inquisitor to be the one to handle Solas after this, like she said she would, but it's not one of the reasons she's my favourite protagonist.

 

I'd love to play my Inquisitor again, but also not too fussed if they go a new protagonist route as usual. I see trespasser as introducing us the final stretch of the story and just excited to see how it continues now.. hopefully they got greenlighted for a 4th game.

[CardButton]

I get why this would be said, makes sense. But at the same time I don't think quizy being bland was solely based on how the character could be played. I think it also had to do with background and the fact that it has little to no effect in game. I mean, if you play as a dalish apparently you can kill your entire clan and afterward nothing is said by companions. You also have no quests regarding it outside the wartable and never got an origin story. Things like this contributed into making the quizy a bad character. However I still want to play them in Da4, because their potential as a seriously awesome character with an awesome story skyrocketed with trespasser. And I don't really trust, I mean I think its possible but not likely, but I don't really trust BW to do any better with a new protag than they did with quizy. So I'd rather play the bad character whose now potentially an amazing character than getting to know an entirely new bad character. 

Meh, headcannon for me goes a long way to fleshing out a character condemned by their own story (Though I actually did save clan Lavellan, Varric mentions he started up trade relations with them in Trespasser if you succeed.)  Anyway, assuming Solas will be returning as Antagonist and Tevinter is the setting, as I see it there are currently 4 routes Bioware can take in regards to the PC problem for DA4.

 

A. Inquisitor-PC (Strong connection to Solas, Weak Connection to Tevinter). I would be OK with this.

 

B. New-PC with an Insiders Perspective, so probably a Human (Strong Connection with Tevinter, Weak Connection with Solas). I would also be OK with this.

 

C. New-PC with an Outsiders Perspective (Weak Connection to BOTH Solas and Tevinter). THIS IS THE WORST THING THEY COULD POSSIBLY DO!

 

D. Dual-PC system using options A and B.  Inquisitor-PC Outsider (Strong Solas Connection) + New-PC Insider (Strong Tevinter Connection) = (2 different PC stories that slowly get intertwined).  This my preferred version.  

[Regan_Cousland]

Nope, Mr/Ms cardboard emotion needs to go.

 

The inquisitor was beautifully expressive in Trespasser because BioWare heard our feedback regarding story and dialogue, and they acted upon it.

They still have that feedback -- so there's no reason the inquisitor shouldn't continue to be expressive if she becomes the protagonist of DA4.

 

It's not as if the voice actors were at fault. They're good voice actors. So the inquisitor is as capable as any new hero of having a lively personality.

[Regan_Cousland]

The funny thing is that BioWare really did cause all of this debate. 

I think 99 percent of us were content to part ways with the inquisitor after the main campaign.

 

Then BioWare come along with Tresspasser, which shows us how good a protagonist the inquisitor can be, and they give us an "ending" which is actually the beginning of a much more interesting-looking story than the one involving Coryphysh!t. 

Hm. Maybe that was the plan! To get all of Inquisition's naysayers, like myself, passionate about the future of the franchise again. It kinda worked. lol

[Nefla]

The funny thing is that BioWare really did cause all of this debate. 

I think 99 percent of us were content to part ways with the inquisitor after the main campaign.

 

Then BioWare come along with Tresspasser, which shows us how good a protagonist the inquisitor can be, and they give us an "ending" which is actually the beginning of a much more interesting-looking story than the one involving Coryphysh!t. 

Hm. Maybe that was the plan! To get all of Inquisition's naysayers, like myself, passionate about the future of the franchise again. It kinda worked. lol

Clever bastards! It totally worked on me!

[Ann'Nonnie'Mus]

Clever bastards! It totally worked on me!

Worked on me as well lol.

I hope BW goes dual protag or just makes quizy protag at this point.