633 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

I think you grossly overestimating just how much DA:i choices are going to influence the Inquisitor's presence in DA4, assuming they were allowed to return as PC. Really it would boil down to two key decisions (Save/Stop Solas), (Disband/Perserve Inquisition) and their relationships with Solas and Dorian.  Tevinter is an isolated enough setting that very little else would come into play, and honestly if they wanted to deal with some of the other choices that the Inquisitor made (like LIs) they could implement a similar Mail system like the Dot//Hack Games had.  Mail for the Inquisitor would simply be addressed to Dorian, who the Inquisitor can keep in constant contact with due to the gem.  Text boxes/Codex's in game (even those allowing for limited responses back to sender) would not be that difficult or expensive to program. The Inquistor's introduction to Tevinter is simple enough, they are the Dorian households new one-armed wretch of a slave.  He has admitted his family owns some, no one would notice one more.  If your an elf your already a slave in Tevinter, if your another race (even a Vashoth) no one would question why a person with one-arm would sell themselves into slavery.

They did do a "mail" system in DAA, did not go over so well. People are going to want and expect interaction with their LIs at least. Bad things happened when Alistair showed up for 3 minutes and everyone else sent letters in DAA.

As for the "one armed wretch". It would NEVER fly. We've had more than a few people here who complained that the Inquisitor was doing menial crap through the whole game, and now you want one of the most powerful people in the game world posing as a slave? The screaming would probably bring down mountains.

As for the new PC, I don't see them working as anything other than a Human.  The chief benefit of having a new Tevinter PC is being able to get access to an insiders perspective on the country (which we would have been denied with a sole PC Inquisitor).  If they simply replace an outsider Inquisitor with another outsider, the new PC serves no other purpose than having a new Protagonist simply for the sake of having a new Protagonist (which is terrible narrative reasoning). As such with the exception of maybe the rare Dwarf and Qunari slave both those races are out, because one is Carta (again) and the other is an enemy of the state.  Elves would present a somewhat lessened problem for a protagonist (though still a problem), because they are literally a slave race.  Their perspective on the nation is incredibly limited, they have even less influence than the "Indentured Servants" of Tevinter due to the fact that their form of slavery can be passed down through families (which it cannot if you simply sell yourself) and unless they happen to have the nicest (or dumbest) master in the world there is very little reason for an Elf to be "allowed" to have any sort of martial or magic training (even self teaching yourself would be immensely dangerous).  Objectively despite living and being suppressed in Tevinter, Elves of Tevinter are also primarily outsiders (because they are being forced to live in their own world, apart from the rest of society). Namely, for the new PC to work to the best of their ability (essentially for them to justify replacing the Inquisitor) they would need to be based around a more Hawke style character format than that of a Warden and thus be probably Human.
 
In a dual PC story this would mean that the Inquisitor would have the option of race, but have their origin already defined; while the new PC would have the option of Origin, but have their race already defined.

And we get the worst of both worlds. People hated the Hawke style format, which is why we got the race selection in the first place. We were going to get a just human PC here, but there was a furor over it and we got four races instead. Do you think it'll be any different this time around?

Elves can be emancipated in Tevinter. Fenris' sister was free. In fact it was Fenris volunteering for the experiment is what freed her and his mother. And it wouldn't be carta. Carta is Orzammar. Any dwarves in the area would be Kal Sharok.

The best I can think of is that the Inquisitor is working with Dorian et al without doing any skulduggery, and making choices as controlled by the player which would then affect quest availability for the central PC, because said PC is a grunt at first.

[Darkly Tranquil]

And we get the worst of both worlds. People hated the Hawke style format, which is why we got the race selection in the first place. We were going to get a just human PC here, but there was a furor over it and we got four races instead. Do you think it'll be any different this time around?

Yes, because (hopefully) the devs will have learned from DAI and will plan for a multi race protagonist from the outset, rather than making a decision to add it late in development.

[vbibbi]

They did do a "mail" system in DAA, did not go over so well. People are going to want and expect interaction with their LIs at least. Bad things happened when Alistair showed up for 3 minutes and everyone else sent letters in DAA.
 

Plus imagine if Dorian turns out to have an important role in the game, but he is the only returning DAI companion. People would claim that Bioware is "shoving the gay agenda down our throats" again by only having the homosexual male LI be the only returning LI.

[Ariella]

Yes, because (hopefully) the devs will have learned from DAI and will plan for a multi race protagonist from the outset, rather than making a decision to add it late in development.

My honest belief was they really wanted to get this right by the fans, and in doing so bit off more than they could really chew. But if they would have just resolved the war, we would have heard screaming they were just recycling what they were going to do with EM, which would have been true to an extent, but it would have had the virtue of not having to try and build a bridge from both ends, hoping it meets in the middle.

How this connects to the race select, if course, is in the priorities they thought they needed vs player feedback. If they'd had them from the outset, I think we would have had much greater interaction (ex. A dwarf might get a bonus quest with Varric to deal with Merchant Guild stuff. Guild being worried about the whole Herald thing.) I don't think they should try to do origins anymore, at least not like in DAO, but have quests etc that come up because you are so and so background.

Plus imagine if Dorian turns out to have an important role in the game, but he is the only returning DAI companion. People would claim that Bioware is "shoving the gay agenda down our throats" again by only having the homosexual male LI be the only returning LI.

If Dorian doesn't have a big role, I'm going to Edmonton and breaking down doors. I love him and I never expected to. The whole fop thing, but I got surprised.

And yes, there would be screaming. Lots and Lots of screaming.

For me it would be like ME 2 or DAA all over, though I'd hope my li wouldn't be as pissy as Kaiden was.

And as I think someone pointed out, we really don't want a situation like ME 2, where when you first picked up the game and imported your character you either had to cheat or forgo totally because your li was pissed if the were the VS. Liara still got some though.

No let's either keep things self contained or if we do somehow end up with a repeat pc, grow the relationship further, which I think might be hard to do in a computer/console game.

[vbibbi]

My honest belief was they really wanted to get this right by the fans, and in doing so bit off more than they could really chew. But if they would have just resolved the war, we would have heard screaming they were just recycling what they were going to do with EM, which would have been true to an extent, but it would have had the virtue of not having to try and build a bridge from both ends, hoping it meets in the middle.

How this connects to the race select, if course, is in the priorities they thought they needed vs player feedback. If they'd had them from the outset, I think we would have had much greater interaction (ex. A dwarf might get a bonus quest with Varric to deal with Merchant Guild stuff. Guild being worried about the whole Herald thing.) I don't think they should try to do origins anymore, at least not like in DAO, but have quests etc that come up because you are so and so background.

If Dorian doesn't have a big role, I'm going to Edmonton and breaking down doors. I love him and I never expected to. The whole fop thing, but I got surprised.

And yes, there would be screaming. Lots and Lots of screaming.

For me it would be like ME 2 or DAA all over, though I'd hope my li wouldn't be as pissy as Kaiden was.

And as I think someone pointed out, we really don't want a situation like ME 2, where when you first picked up the game and imported your character you either had to cheat or forgo totally because your li was pissed if the were the VS. Liara still got some though.

No let's either keep things self contained or if we do somehow end up with a repeat pc, grow the relationship further, which I think might be hard to do in a computer/console game.

I wish Shep had had the option to pull a Friends on Horizon in ME2 "We were on a break!...and I was dead for a while."

[Ann'Nonnie'Mus]

My honest belief was they really wanted to get this right by the fans, and in doing so bit off more than they could really chew. But if they would have just resolved the war, we would have heard screaming they were just recycling what they were going to do with EM, which would have been true to an extent, but it would have had the virtue of not having to try and build a bridge from both ends, hoping it meets in the middle.

How this connects to the race select, if course, is in the priorities they thought they needed vs player feedback. If they'd had them from the outset, I think we would have had much greater interaction (ex. A dwarf might get a bonus quest with Varric to deal with Merchant Guild stuff. Guild being worried about the whole Herald thing.) I don't think they should try to do origins anymore, at least not like in DAO, but have quests etc that come up because you are so and so background.

If Dorian doesn't have a big role, I'm going to Edmonton and breaking down doors. I love him and I never expected to. The whole fop thing, but I got surprised.

And yes, there would be screaming. Lots and Lots of screaming.

For me it would be like ME 2 or DAA all over, though I'd hope my li wouldn't be as pissy as Kaiden was.

And as I think someone pointed out, we really don't want a situation like ME 2, where when you first picked up the game and imported your character you either had to cheat or forgo totally because your li was pissed if the were the VS. Liara still got some though.

No let's either keep things self contained or if we do somehow end up with a repeat pc, grow the relationship further, which I think might be hard to do in a computer/console game.

Yeah the quests for the different backgrounds would be a good idea. I would just hope they don't do it like in DaI where its all wartable. That'd be a terrible idea... because it kind of was. Half the fun of starting a new character is getting to have your own personal quests and seeing how your new companions would react to your past life would be cool.

As for origin stories I would still like to see that happen. I understand why it wouldn't but it'd still add to the story and I think it might keep the entire game from feeling like an origin to the character. Which Da2 and DaI definitely felt like the origins of Hawke and Quizy. Warden not so much and I think the origin's had a help in that, and also that their story concludes with dying an such.

 

And if inquisitor returns it wouldn't be any harder to progress their relationships than what they've already done. It's basically like world states and how previous characters reacted depending on how you played Da2 and DaO. In some world states the warden was an enemy of their companions and some they were dead and some they were romance options. It'd be about the same.

[Ariella]

And if inquisitor returns it wouldn't be any harder to progress their relationships than what they've already done. It's basically like world states and how previous characters reacted depending on how you played Da2 and DaO. In some world states the warden was an enemy of their companions and some they were dead and some they were romance options. It'd be about the same.

The war table was supposed to tie in more but...

Consider how large the li cast was sans Solas.

That's seven characters? And unless they have short cameos that's going to eat into voice actor budget, and potentially limit new characters.

If they show up, people are going to want more relationship, but with seven possibilities then however many new companions. That's a large cast of actors.

[Homeboundcrib]

Alright I have said that I want the inqusitor back again 100%. I have been playing assassins creed: syndicate and halo 5 which both have dual protags, witcher 3 also. They all work crazy and give different points of view from each protag. If Bioware could pull this off it could be good and also would keep some fans semi happy.

But I don't want to see my inquisitor pushed to some desk job and just pointing the finger. If there were going to be dual protags, I want the inquisitor to be able to fight, I don't want 15 seconds screen time, select a dialogue then see you later. Because that wasn't my inquisitior, they would never do that, they would continue to fight one hand and all. I want full control over them, I want to be able to move them around and all that.

I would rather the inquisitior back straight up but that will not happen. Dual protags at least will keep some semi happy. Romances would be the hardest but not every romance works, marriages fall apart. I think we could have a new set of companions while playing as the inquisitor again. Not everyone romanced a companion, there's also the keep to play with and change things up.

But this is all for nothing cause it's not going to Happen.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Alright I have said that I want the inqusitor back again 100%. I have been playing assassins creed: syndicate and halo 5 which both have dual protags, witcher 3 also. They all work crazy and give different points of view from each protag. If Bioware could pull this off it could be good and also would keep some fans semi happy.

Halo 5: Guardians is a great example of how Bioware could go with the dual protagonist style in my opinion. Most of the game follows one protagonist who is in the dark(Locke, new PC) while occasionally going to other protagonist who is more in the know(Master Chief, Inquisitor).

[AresKeith]

Worked on me as well lol.

I hope BW goes dual protag or just makes quizy protag at this point.

 

Bolded part is the likely scenario of the two 

[Ariella]

But this is all for nothing cause it's not going to Happen.

No, it's really not.

Yes, marriages fall apart, but I sure as hell don't want to be told it fell apart in the interm with handwaving. I'm certain any number of other people feel the same.

And the two games you named both have set protagonists. A lot easier to switch between since you can't deviate all that much.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Bolded part is the likely scenario of the two 

 

Well, since Inquisition was supposed to borrow from Skyrim I suppose it only makes sense DA 4 is probably going to borrow from the Witcher 3. 

[CardButton]

Halo 5: Guardians is a great example of how Bioware could go with the dual protagonist style in my opinion. Most of the game follows one protagonist who is in the dark(Locke, new PC) while occasionally going to other protagonist who is more in the know(Master Chief, Inquisitor).

Heck Bungie did a remarkable job with a different style of Dual Protagonists in Halo 2 (with Master Chief and Arbiter) and honestly that is still my favorite Halo game in terms of story.    In that style. both characters pursued their own goals and eventually those goal clashed and turned into a single story.  Bioware could conceivably do something like this as well for a Dual-PC style narrative. 

[AresKeith]

Well, since Inquisition was supposed to borrow from Skyrim I suppose it only makes sense DA 4 is probably going to borrow from the Witcher 3. 

 

That's what the usual suspects will call it atleast

[CardButton]

They did do a "mail" system in DAA, did not go over so well. People are going to want and expect interaction with their LIs at least. Bad things happened when Alistair showed up for 3 minutes and everyone else sent letters in DAA.
 

You haven't played Dot//Hack: Infection through Quarantine have you?   Those games had a remarkably cool system when it came to doing "Email" in that the allowed the player to choose from a list of options how to respond to one.  In fact it's almost exactly like an early version of DA:O's dialogue wheels.  The idea is just like the spoken dialogue options for a DA, you choose a response (or set of responses) and those in turn create the return mail (just as your dialogue choices would create a conversation); the only difference is, they are unvoiced (therefore it is all not all much more expensive to produce than a Codex).

 

See the neat thing is for a returning Inquisitor PC in Tevinter, the LI's that are left behind are those very ones that already have gotten their happy endings.  These type of Letters would only need to serve as an occasional reminder for those Inquisitors who left a loved one behind what it is they are fighting for (along with saving the world of course); and eventually what it is they will return to.  If done correctly you would only need a few of them in the game at certain down points in the story to serve this intended function and retain emotional impact.  For those who are LI Dorian (he's in Tevinter, good for you ), for those who LI Solas (well you are in Tevinter trying to save/stop him after all), letters would be unneeded. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

The main argument as to why Inky should be coming back as protag in DA 4: Wolf Hunt is because they have a previous relationship with Solas that cannot be done for a new protag. Couldn't I say the same thing for bringing back Inquisition's companions? They also have an unique relationship with Solas that new companions wouldn't have. You could even argue that there stories with Solas haven't concluded either, I'm sure Cassandra feels rather betrayed by Solas. Why shouldn't Bioware continue that story line DA4? 

 

Also, as people who know just how dangerous Solas is and can be why wouldn't they drop whatever they were doing and help the Inquisitor save the world, again? You could argue that Solas knows them to well and have counters if they were involved, but the exact same thing could be said about the Inquisitor. 

[Nefla]

The main argument as to why Inky should be coming back as protag in DA 4: Wolf Hunt is because they have a previous relationship with Solas that cannot be done for a new protag. Couldn't I say the same thing for bringing back Inquisition's companions? They also have an unique relationship with Solas that new companions wouldn't have. You could even argue that there stories with Solas haven't concluded either, I'm sure Cassandra feels rather betrayed by Solas. Why shouldn't Bioware continue that story line DA4? 

 

Also, as people who know just how dangerous Solas is and can be why wouldn't they drop whatever they were doing and help the Inquisitor save the world, again? You could argue that Solas knows them to well and have counters if they were involved, but the exact same thing could be said about the Inquisitor. 

So the inquisitor can be a secret squirrel and go to Tevinter under cover while a decoy stays with the companions

[Homeboundcrib]

No, it's really not.

Yes, marriages fall apart, but I sure as hell don't want to be told it fell apart in the interm with handwaving. I'm certain any number of other people feel the same.

And the two games you named both have set protagonists. A lot easier to switch between since you can't deviate all that much.

For those of us who want the inquisitior back are probably not going to get it that's what I meant it's all for nothing lol . I know that people will be angry if they just got letters and that's why I said it would be hard. But there is always a way.

I can only imagine how hard it would be for Bioware to do the dual protags, they could how ever have a look and try to implement the idea to DA:4. This way some fans will be semi happy. They have said they like the idea of this, hopefully they explore it.

[ComedicSociopathy]

So the inquisitor can be a secret squirrel and go to Tevinter under cover while a decoy stays with the companions

 

And deprive our Inquisitor of companions that actually know who Solas is a personal level...

 

Sounds like a waste of a story potential to me. 

 

Besides, as threads like these have shown the Inquisitor is only really worthy of coming back if they get the chance to talk to an old companion again. 

[vbibbi]

Yeah the quests for the different backgrounds would be a good idea. I would just hope they don't do it like in DaI where its all wartable. That'd be a terrible idea... because it kind of was. Half the fun of starting a new character is getting to have your own personal quests and seeing how your new companions would react to your past life would be cool.

As for origin stories I would still like to see that happen. I understand why it wouldn't but it'd still add to the story and I think it might keep the entire game from feeling like an origin to the character. Which Da2 and DaI definitely felt like the origins of Hawke and Quizy. Warden not so much and I think the origin's had a help in that, and also that their story concludes with dying an such.

 

And if inquisitor returns it wouldn't be any harder to progress their relationships than what they've already done. It's basically like world states and how previous characters reacted depending on how you played Da2 and DaO. In some world states the warden was an enemy of their companions and some they were dead and some they were romance options. It'd be about the same.

I wonder if the war table will be brought back in any capacity in DA4. It is such a specific game mechanic that only makes sense if we're leading an organization, and I doubt we'll play that role in the next game. It was a good concept that I don't feel was implemented optimally and I wouldn't mind having a similar mechanic used again, but it doesn't seem likely.

 

I would like more race specific content played out, as well.

[loyallyroyal]

And deprive our Inquisitor of companions that actually know who Solas is a personal level...

 

Sounds like a waste of a story potential to me. 

 

Besides, as threads like these have shown the Inquisitor is only really worthy of coming back if they get the chance to talk to an old companion again. 

 

Well Cassandra can be divine, and/or rebuilding the Seekers that takes her out of the picture.

 

Solas was the Inquisitor's nemesis. It makes sense, especially with a character that directly says they will either redeem or stop him that people would want that character to return. Technically Solas is responsible for the breach, so the purpose of the Inquisition to find those responsible and hold them accountable hasn't been finished.

 

Personally, give me LI letters, throw some new ones in for the new people and be happy. The only companions I can see coming back are Dorian and possible Bull/Chargers cameo if they lived.

[CardButton]

And deprive our Inquisitor of companions that actually know who Solas is a personal level...

 

Sounds like a waste of a story potential to me. 

 

Besides, as threads like these have shown the Inquisitor is only really worthy of coming back if they get the chance to talk to an old companion again. 

And they would ... Dorian and Solas; maybe Bull if he survived and romanced either the Inquisitor or Dorian.  

 

The Inquisitor bringing more of their old friends and companions with them would just draw more attention if they were to go in "Secret Squirrel".  Their companions are competent enough to realize this fact and know well enough that someone needs to hold down the fort until the Quizzie's return.  Their presence would be a hindrance (or a dead giveaway) to where the Inquisitor is and what they are doing.  One person (even one that's famous) disappearing is far easier than a related group of big name people (just take a look at the Warden and Hawke after DA:2).  It would not be the companions "having more important things to do other then save the world" its "they have important things to do and have faith in a friend (who has already done so many miraculous things) to finish the job".  Their absence actually gives the Inquisitor a better chance.

[Ariella]

You haven't played Dot//Hack: Infection through Quarantine have you?   Those games had a remarkably cool system when it came to doing "Email" in that the allowed the player to choose from a list of options how to respond to one.

No, haven't played it, but the last time we got mail/email from love intetests it was bad. Very bad (glares at daa and me2)

The problem is, if they'd go the return of IQ route, people will want their live interest back completely. Not in mail, but face to face.

You've seen what the accomplished bitchers here can do to the smallest nitpick. You really think they'd stay quiet if all they had were letters and no face time? People got upset about not being able to kiss their li whenever in DA2 like the did in DAO.

Honestly, trying to come up with ways around the objects has given me a headache, so I can't imagine what it does to the poor developers. Now barring Ras Al Ghul er Solas dumping the IQ in a pit of primordial goo, the arm is going to be a problem too, since we've got no mechanism for the kind of replacement people are talking about.

The closest is golems, but that's infusing a soul into stone or metal, not connecting a limb to a mind. We don't know if lyrium can do so, and remember it can play hell on the memories. Fenris' tattoos come to mind.

[Super Drone]

No, haven't played it, but the last time we got mail/email from love intetests it was bad. Very bad (glares at daa and me2)

The problem is, if they'd go the return of IQ route, people will want their live interest back completely. Not in mail, but face to face.

You've seen what the accomplished bitchers here can do to the smallest nitpick. You really think they'd stay quiet if all they had were letters and no face time? People got upset about not being able to kiss their li whenever in DA2 like the did in DAO.
 

 

To say nothing of the storm that will rise if they don't offer new LI on top of the old ones.  

[vbibbi]

The closest is golems, but that's infusing a soul into stone or metal, not connecting a limb to a mind. We don't know if lyrium can do so, and remember it can play hell on the memories. Fenris' tattoos come to mind.

Oh don't give people ideas. We're going to start hearing an idea to have the Inquisitor get a golem arm and then lose their memory, allowing us to start at level one again and have to relearn everything