192 respuestas en este tema

[springacres]

I never saw that joke. Is it when you do the quest for Charade?

 

Then again, I've never done same sex romance either.

"I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl."  (Never mind that Hawke's lover, whether it's Anders or Fenris, could wipe the floor with Gamlen... as could any of Hawke's female companions.)

 

With Fenris, the "girl" remark is preceded by "So, you're into elves, huh?" which makes me wish there were an option to have either Hawke or Fenris punch him.

 

Gamlen's certainly realistic, and can be Hawke's only living relative besides Charade by that point, but that doesn't make him any less of a douchebag.

Editado por springacres, 16 abril 2016 - 02:46 .

[Catilina]

"I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl."  (Never mind that Hawke's lover, whether it's Anders or Fenris, could wipe the floor with Gamlen... as could any of Hawke's female companions.)

 

With Fenris, the "girl" remark is preceded by "So, you're into elves, huh?" which makes me wish there were an option to have either Hawke or Fenris punch him.

 

Gamlen's certainly realistic, and can be Hawke's only living relative besides Charade by that point, but that doesn't make him any less of a douchebag.

Eh, you are really cruel. Honestly, you would spare him from this sh*t joke!

[springacres]

Eh, you are really cruel. Honestly, you would spare him from this sh*t joke!

Not as cruel as Gamlen is. 

[Catilina]

Not as cruel as Gamlen is. 

Gamlen just a jerk, a lot of such waste exist, I think most they so stupid / insensitive, do not even realize that theirs joke are hurtful, not fun.

Well I finishing: He do not deserve more words

[straykat]

"I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl."  (Never mind that Hawke's lover, whether it's Anders or Fenris, could wipe the floor with Gamlen... as could any of Hawke's female companions.)

 

With Fenris, the "girl" remark is preceded by "So, you're into elves, huh?" which makes me wish there were an option to have either Hawke or Fenris punch him.

 

Gamlen's certainly realistic, and can be Hawke's only living relative besides Charade by that point, but that doesn't make him any less of a douchebag.

 

He is a douchebag. But he's funny. I think Bartrand is funny too. This game would be less without both of them.

 

It's the same reason I like, say... J Jonah Jameson in Spider-Man stories. He's a douche too, but the story would be less without him.

 

I guess I'm just looking at it from the general story pov. Not just Hawke's perspective.

[springacres]

He is a douchebag. But he's funny. I think Bartrand is funny too. This game would be less without both of them.

 

It's the same reason I like, say... J Jonah Jameson in Spider-Man stories. He's a douche too, but the story would be less without him.

 

I guess I'm just looking at it from the general story pov. Not just Hawke's perspective.

I don't find Gamlen all that funny, but you're right, he does add some realism to the overall story.  (Particularly for me, since he reminds me of some of my more conservative relatives - I love them, but some of the things they say... or post to Facebook... not so much.)

[straykat]

I don't find Gamlen all that funny, but you're right, he does add some realism to the overall story.  (Particularly for me, since he reminds me of some of my more conservative relatives - I love them, but some of the things they say... or post to Facebook... not so much.)

 

Well, to be fair, I used to despise him.. but I guess after 4 yrs or whatever since the game has been out, I'm a little detached.. and have many different types of Hawke who see Gamlen differently.

 

Somehow I started appreciating him. lol

[GoldenGail3]

Well, to be fair, I used to despise him.. but I guess after 4 yrs or whatever since the game has been out, I'm a little detached.. and have many different types of Hawke who see Gamlen differently.

Somehow I started appreciating him. lol

Gamlen is that one bad egg of an uncle who people want to smack in the head - my Hawke being the first to hit him for insulting Isaable a by calling her a uh... W***.

[Catilina]

Gamlen is that one bad egg of an uncle who people want to smack in the head - my Hawke being the first to hit him for insulting Isaable a by calling her a uh... W***.

...but well written dick, perfect to hate!

[Dean_the_Young]

He does have his uses, I'll give him that.  (He's also the only uncle Hawke has, that we know of anyway.)

 

But he's still the uncle who robbed his sister of her inheritance, then frittered it away, then took advantage of his family's plight to get some of his own debts paid off when said sister and children showed up in Kirkwall.  He's also a racist, homophobic SOB.

 

 

I have a rather hard time blaming Gamlen of 'robbing' his sister of her inheritance when, by all accounts, she not only fled it gladly, but he was jilted despite being the loyal son. Or 'taking advantage' of his family's plight when he didn't have any other way to help them.

 

Heck, if he hadn't had those particular debts and was just plain poor, he wouldn't have had the leverage to convince people to get the Hawke's into the city... when he really had no obligation to anyway, since, again, Leandra showed back up on the doorstep expecting help after abandoning the family long ago. And if he had had the money, there's no indication he wouldn't have spent it on them. Blaming a man for lacking the means to help family is bizzar to me.

 

Gamlen's certainly a racist (not sure about homophobic) SOB... but so what? The worst thing he does is be contemptible in character, and that alone doesn't hurt people. Compared to Hawk, who helped screw up the world, or Leandra, who ran away from home and will blame her own child for Darkspawn killing another, or half the companion cast of corrupt and occasionally murderous companions, he's a nobody on the morality scale of deserving damnation- and someone who repeatedly got shat on by the family he still went out of his way to help.

[Catilina]

I have a rather hard time blaming Gamlen of 'robbing' his sister of her inheritance when, by all accounts, she not only fled it gladly, but he was jilted despite being the loyal son. Or 'taking advantage' of his family's plight when he didn't have any other way to help them.

 

Heck, if he hadn't had those particular debts and was just plain poor, he wouldn't have had the leverage to convince people to get the Hawke's into the city... when he really had no obligation to anyway, since, again, Leandra showed back up on the doorstep expecting help after abandoning the family long ago. And if he had had the money, there's no indication he wouldn't have spent it on them. Blaming a man for lacking the means to help family is bizzar to me.

 

Gamlen's certainly a racist (not sure about homophobic) SOB... but so what? The worst thing he does is be contemptible in character, and that alone doesn't hurt people. Compared to Hawk, who helped screw up the world, or Leandra, who ran away from home and will blame her own child for Darkspawn killing another, or half the companion cast of corrupt and occasionally murderous companions, he's a nobody on the morality scale of deserving damnation- and someone who repeatedly got shat on by the family he still went out of his way to help.

Leandra disowned, dispossessed by her parents, not "fled gladly"... Okay, Gamlen gambled away the estate, no problem, he was at his parents alone.

 

And what happened with Gamlen's wife, and daughter? He did not know that he have a daughter! His wife also "fled gladly"?

 

Oh, I do not think that's a Gamlen-like man considers himself to be racist or homophobic; do not have the emotional intelligence to comprehend what he was saying. F***ing hell, he said into Hawke's face his stupid joke ... it is enough ill-manner.

 

Summa summarum: Gamlen are a dick. He have good moments, but does not absolve him exceptions to that fact.

 

(Nobody can blame Hawke because Kirkwall [and the world] bursting into flame.)

[Dean_the_Young]

Leandra disowned, dispossessed by her parents, not "fled gladly"... Okay, Gamlen gambled away the estate, no problem, he was at his parents alone.

 

Leandra was disowned and dispossed (though later willed anyway) because she wanted to elope with an apostate, and by all indications stayed happily in backwoods of Fereldne with no intention of returning. Unless I missed significant signs of marital strife, Leandra lived the love story.

 

 

And what happened with Gamlen's wife, and daughter? He did not know that he have a daughter! His wife also "fled gladly"?

 

 

Who said that? Certainly not I.

 

Not that it's particularly relevant to the inheritance, or to making a case against Gamlen since we don't know why she left. It could have been because it was a regretful one night stand, it could have been because she was trying to swindle him, it could have been because he farted in bed too much, but we certainly don't have an indication that she left because of some cruel, let alone criminal, abuse.

 

 

Oh, I do not think that's a Gamlen-like man considers himself to be racist or homophobic; do not have the emotional intelligence to comprehend what he was saying. F***ing hell, he said into Hawke's face his stupid joke ... it is enough ill-manner.

 

Summa summarum: Gamlen are a dick. He have good moments, but does not absolve him exceptions to that fact.

 

Sure it does. Actions matter more than words, and Gamlen's actions have generally helped others and only ruined himself.

 

Being a tosser is annoying, but a loser who supports family and offers his home as shelter to refugee despite being impoverished himself is doing far less harm than half the companion cast. Gamlen is not a corrupt officer of the law, a profession blackmailer, a terrorist, a murderous squatter, a slave dealer, a vengeful aristocrat, or consorting with demons for magical experiments in a crowded city.

 

The worst thing I can recall Gamlen doing that actually hurts anyone is acrue gambling debts with disreputable characters. He also had a failed investment in cheese at some point, so maybe some fellow investors got ruined. Be still, my bleeding heart.

 

 

(Nobody can blame Hawke because Kirkwall [and the world] bursting into flame.)

 

 

 

Sure they can. Hawke took actions- frequently for reasons of self-interest or bias on behalf of favored parties- that contributed to lighting things afire, and this is aside from the habitual corruption and criminal activity that Hawke enables and frequently participates in. Sole responsibility is hardly required to hold responsibility.

[Catilina]

[...]

Sure, poor Gamlen. Leandra was selfish, she deserved her fate. As Gamlen's wife. After all, she choose. Not to mention the fact that why M!Hawke in love with an (elf!) boy… (I dont know what Gamlen say to F!Hawke, if she love with Isabela or Merrill)  moreover, he even also a mage, not "normal, as Carver" (if you choose mage). Okay, no problem with Gamlen... (I said, he have good moments too but...)

 

Then let's move onto Hawke: S/he do ANYTHING, goes wrong. S/he stay on the mage-side? The result: chaos. S/he on the templar-side? The result: chaos. If s/he do nothing, even chaos would be the result. Or not? Maybe. (But this conversation has taken place between Varric and Cassandra – totally unnecessary return to it.)

Hawke was the hand of fate, not the fate.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

Sure, poor Gamlen. Leandra was selfish, she deserved her fate. As Gamlen's wife. After all, she choose. Not to mention the fact that why M!Hawke in love with an (elf!) boy…(I dont know what Gamlen say to F!Hawke, if she love with Isabela or Merrill)  moreover, he even also a mage, not "normal, as Carver" (if you choose mage). Okay, no problem with Gamlen... (I said, he have good moments too but...)

 

Uh... what?

 

This is incoherent to what I wrote. And factually wrong in that Leandra was never faced with the prospect of an incestuous marriage to Gamlen.

 

No one's saying Gamlen's the man of the year. But ugly remarks aren't the same as ugly actions, and the actions Gamlen does make- things that actually affect people other than himself for better or worse- tend to be for the better.

 

The guy wasted away money and lived in poverty- self-inflicted misery if there ever was any. But that's about all it was- self-inflicted, not inflicted on others. He wasn't making a living hurting other people, or doing it for his own jollies, or even risking the lives of others as a matter of principle (or for fun). That puts Gamlen above quite a few other, more sympathetic, characters of the game.

 

 

 

 

Then let's move onto Hawke: S/he do ANYTHING, goes wrong. S/he stay on the mage-side? The result: chaos. S/he on the templar-side? The result: chaos. If s/he do nothing, even chaos would be the result. Or not? Maybe. (But this conversation has taken place between Varric and Cassandra – totally unnecessary return to it.)

Hawke was the hand of fate, not the fate.

 

 

Also irrelevant to, well, anything being raised by me.

 

As amusing as the Pablo Escabar defense is, the world being a bad place without you does not exonerate you from any consequences of your own actions that make things worse.

[springacres]

Uh... what?

 

This is incoherent to what I wrote. And factually wrong in that Leandra was never faced with the prospect of an incestuous marriage to Gamlen.

 

No one's saying Gamlen's the man of the year. But ugly remarks aren't the same as ugly actions, and the actions Gamlen does make- things that actually affect people other than himself for better or worse- tend to be for the better.

 

The guy wasted away money and lived in poverty- self-inflicted misery if there ever was any. But that's about all it was- self-inflicted, not inflicted on others. He wasn't making a living hurting other people, or doing it for his own jollies, or even risking the lives of others as a matter of principle (or for fun). That puts Gamlen above quite a few other, more sympathetic, characters of the game.

I believe Catilina simply meant to compare Leandra to Gamlen's wife, not to insinuate that Leandra was faced with the prospect of incestuous marriage.

 

Gamlen's actions weren't entirely reprehensible, true.  But they also weren't entirely good.  It's heavily intimated during the prologue that Gamlen is taking advantage of the Hawke family's need to get into Kirkwall to help settle some of his own debts, or at least that's the impression I got from Athenril and Meeran.  As you said, however, he's not the only character in-game who takes advantage of other people.  (Looking at you, Anders and Isabela...)  It's his racist, sexist and (mildly) homophobic remarks in Act 3 that I feel land him in the category of "douchebag."  And even there, he's still a long way above Meredith and Bartrand in my view.

[straykat]

I like them all.

 

And despite the Amells being in the dumps, the First Act is still my favorite.

[Aren]

I think another thing to keep in mind is you have to try your hardest to make any of these seem like good romances. lol

 

They're all potentially bad in one way or another. Definitely not storybook at least. Once you settle with that, it's easier to enjoy and play around with the options. Instead of trying to make them ideal. imho

 

 

This applies to most DA romances,i really need to try the hardest to not see them as unhealthy for the protagonist but i never succeeded.

[straykat]

This applies to most DA romances,i do think that most of them are unhealthy.

 

I think they're unhealthy for unseen reasons. While in DA2, all the problems hit you in the face.

 

My Leliana romances are unhealthy because I usually do the sacrifice.. and it messes her up. Even though she tries to accept the idea of death.

 

No one saw the dark ritual coming exactly. Or the problems revolving around Alistair's crown.

 

Maybe the DAI ones are the most healthy.. outside Solas. lol. This might partly be why I let my Inquisitor be happy.. and it's the RIGHT thing to do to run away from duty in this case. Not embrace it further. The whole thing is a farce.

[Catilina]

 

Uh… what?

 

[...]

 

As amusing as the Pablo Escabar defense is, the world being a bad place without you does not exonerate you from any consequences of your own actions that make things worse.

 

Sorry, if i worded ambiguously.

___

 

Pablo Escobar and Hawke. Good analogy, congratulations! Nothing more to say lol.

[straykat]

lol... I always saw Hawke as Che Guevara. Pablo Escobar.. not so much.

 

Or at least, the male one.

 

I see my female Hawke as the daughter Flemeth wished she had.

[Catilina]

lol... I always saw Hawke as Che Guevara. Pablo Escobar.. not so much.

 

Or at least, the male one.

 

I see my female Hawke as the daughter Flemeth wished she had.

(Just what I thought – but only pro-mage Hawke...)

 

UPDATE: (Not that Che Guevara would have been not a political rogue...)

[Dean_the_Young]

Sorry, if i worded ambiguously.

___

 

Pablo Escobar and Hawke. Good analogy, congratulations! Nothing more to say lol.

 

Not an analogy, since the two characters aren't being compared.

 

The Pablo Escobar defense- or justification, if you will- was that if drugs were going to be sold regardless, why shouldn't he be the one selling them? It was a justification for criminal action on the justification that criminal action would occur regardless. Which was your line of argument for Hawke- that the world was screwed, so Hawke can't be responsible.

 

The only things being compared here are the arguments used (by you and Escobar), not the characters of Hawke and Escobar.

[Catilina]

Not an analogy, since the two characters aren't being compared.

 

The Pablo Escobar defense- or justification, if you will- was that if drugs were going to be sold regardless, why shouldn't he be the one selling them? It was a justification for criminal action on the justification that criminal action would occur regardless. Which was your line of argument for Hawke- that the world was screwed, so Hawke can't be responsible.

 

The only things being compared here are the arguments used (by you and Escobar), not the characters of Hawke and Escobar.

Me and Escobar. Hmm. Nice idea, I love you, too.

[Dean_the_Young]

I believe Catilina simply meant to compare Leandra to Gamlen's wife, not to insinuate that Leandra was faced with the prospect of incestuous marriage.

 

 

Then he really should make a clear argument, shouldn't he.

 

 

 

 

 

Gamlen's actions weren't entirely reprehensible, true.  But they also weren't entirely good.  It's heavily intimated during the prologue that Gamlen is taking advantage of the Hawke family's need to get into Kirkwall to help settle some of his own debts, or at least that's the impression I got from Athenril and Meeran. 

 

 

'Take advantage of' implies that Gamlen had some other alternative. Taking advantage of someone is the alternative to not taking advantage of someone- it is, by necessity, a contrasting position. If you don't have an alternative course of action available, you can't be taking the contrast.

 

Gamlen's arrangement does resolve one (and only one) of his debts, yes- because that debt is all that Gamlen has to offer. Gamlen is poor- he can't pay for the bribes himself. But he can convince someone else to, by framing the Hawke's services as the only way they could ever collect from him, effectively lying his ass off for someone he's never met before and has no reason to actually have faith in. The deal only work, and only occurs, and only really benefits the Hawkes because they are family, because when all is said and done Gamlen is still poor and in debt to the person you don't choose. And then he still lets his newly returned family stay in his home for a year without them even contributing to rent.

 

Gamlen isn't some mustache-twirling opportunist who goes 'I could let you in, but I'll make you work for it.' That would be taking advantage of the Hawke family's need to get into Kirkwall. The alternative to Gamlen making arrangements to get into Kirkwall is that the Hawke family doesn't get into Kirkwall.

 

 

 

 

As you said, however, he's not the only character in-game who takes advantage of other people.  (Looking at you, Anders and Isabela...)  It's his racist, sexist and (mildly) homophobic remarks in Act 3 that I feel land him in the category of "douchebag."  And even there, he's still a long way above Meredith and Bartrand in my view.

 

 

And his remark are, at the end of the day, words on the wind, not people murdered or slaves sold or lives risked.

 

Saying he's a long way above Meredith and Bartrand implies they're in sight of eachother. Gamlen's a long way above Anders and Isabella.

[Dean_the_Young]

Me and Escobar. Hmm. Nice idea, I love you, too.

 

 

The argument, dear. The argument.

 

No one is saying you're like Pablo Escobar. Try not to flatter yourself by making the comparison yourself.