185 réponses à ce sujet

[TevinterSupremacist]

I'd like to offer an objective and utterly unbiased opinion that Tevinter is better and those oxemen are only good for making cups out of their skulls.

 

That and cheesecake. Tamassran cheesecake. Enslaved Tamassran cheesecake.

[Daerog]

<------- Ya, I'll side with Tevinter. (If you don't know, the pic is a statue of Archon Hessarian with the Imperial Chantry symbol behind it.)

 

It's not much of a hard decision for me.

 

Now, Nevarra or Tevinter would be a difficult question, because the rest of Thedas is inferior to those two great nations. It broke my heart seeing those two almost go to war, and I was glad the Inquisitor could stop it.

[Mirrman70]

The Qun is about as extreme as a dystopian society gets. Chemically-induced indoctrination and a lifetime of bondage under pain of death for the entirety of its citizens is not easily surpassed. Tevinter is similar, but not nearly as unified.

 

yet there is order. I am pretty sure they lack poverty (as a result of abolishing economy), they have advanced scientific knowledge (on par with the dwarves). I mean if you really look at it, it is almost a perfect world. Does it restrict freedom? yes, however the more freedom people have the more chaos there will be. Order is better than chaos. Less fun, but better.

[IanPolaris]

yet there is order. I am pretty sure they lack poverty (as a result of abolishing economy), they have advanced scientific knowledge (on par with the dwarves). I mean if you really look at it, it is almost a perfect world. Does it restrict freedom? yes, however the more freedom people have the more chaos there will be. Order is better than chaos. Less fun, but better.

 

I question this.  Perfect order means stasis.  Nothing changes, nothing grow, nothing can improve for the better.  Reason enough to favor Tevinter.

[vertigomez]

I question this.  Perfect order means stasis.  Nothing changes, nothing grow, nothing can improve for the better.  Reason enough to favor Tevinter.

I dunno. Considering they've developed gunpowder and the most advanced medical care this side of magic, I'd say they're improving just fine. It's the rest of the world that hasn't changed in the last... ever.

Meanwhile, Tevinter's doing the exact same thing it was doing a thousand years ago, only less successfully.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

yet there is order. I am pretty sure they lack poverty (as a result of abolishing economy), they have advanced scientific knowledge (on par with the dwarves). I mean if you really look at it, it is almost a perfect world. Does it restrict freedom? yes, however the more freedom people have the more chaos there will be. Order is better than chaos. Less fun, but better.

Would YOU personally live in a society like that though.Think about it, THEY choose everything in your life for you, you don't even get a name you are a number or a job title at best. You are to all purposes a worker bee drone.

Order is an illusion,you can never have true order. This is why the Ben Hassarath spend so much time fighting Ex Qun soldiers turned Tal Valshoth,Qunari society balances on the point of a blade.I also think this is why they are so warlike,to distract the masses from the larger problems and give a common goal and enemy.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

As a player, I think the Qunari are the lesser of two evils, though that could change if Dorian succeeds. I think DAI makes it clear that the Ben-Hassrath care more that people do their jobs and stay generally loyal rather than enforcing the idea that the Qun is perfect among everyone. The Orwellian aspects of their society are the last resort, not the experience of the majority of Qunari.

 

Almost all of my characters would probably resolutely support Tevinter though. All human nations are traditional allies against Qunari domination, even if they are enemies in any other circumstances. And the same would apply to other Thedosian races too, only a Dalish PC might find that prospect iffy. 

[IanPolaris]

I dunno. Considering they've developed gunpowder and the most advanced medical care this side of magic, I'd say they're improving just fine. It's the rest of the world that hasn't changed in the last... ever.

Meanwhile, Tevinter's doing the exact same thing it was doing a thousand years ago, only less successfully.

 

The Qunari may have started with more advanced tech than others prior to the Qun.  For that matter, they may have simply been civilized for so much longer that they naturally developed more tech.  Also the general lack of magic in Qunari life would have an effect here as well.

 

I note that the Chinese were not exactly progressive for most of their history and it showed in the pace of change (esp when change was desperately needed), but for a long time the Chinese were the most technologically advanced society on earth even so.  Just because you have technological superiority DOESN'T mean you are able to change.

[Kurogane335]

I could never, ever side with the Qun.

 

Tevinter needs a revolution, but the Qun....needs to be eradicated, unmade as if it never existed and the last piece of scripture destroyed. Well, I wouldn't make it so even if I could, damn my conscience, but that's how I feel about it.

 

And that how I feel about Tevinter. Yet, we will help the mutants and aberrations ruling this atrocious contry and kill Qunari left and right in the next game, I'm sure of it.

[Almostfaceman]

yet there is order. I am pretty sure they lack poverty (as a result of abolishing economy), they have advanced scientific knowledge (on par with the dwarves). I mean if you really look at it, it is almost a perfect world. Does it restrict freedom? yes, however the more freedom people have the more chaos there will be. Order is better than chaos. Less fun, but better.

 

There is order in every society. Thedas isn't locked in chaos and lawlessness. Lack poverty? Based on what information? Advanced scientific knowledge? They have gunpowder... other than that, their technology is comparable to any other society. America has freedom and has not descended into destructive chaos. Instead, it's become the most powerful and prosperous nation on earth. Freedom =/= chaos, you have no valid argument for that. 

 

The Qunari are merely an Orwellian creepy atmospheric vague backdrop threat to Thedas.

[Ashagar]

I dunno. Considering they've developed gunpowder and the most advanced medical care this side of magic, I'd say they're improving just fine. It's the rest of the world that hasn't changed in the last... ever.

Meanwhile, Tevinter's doing the exact same thing it was doing a thousand years ago, only less successfully.

 

 

Except that apparently the Qunari arrived with that sort of technology but didn't have a effective answer to magic which is why they eventually got thrown off most of thadas once thadas got their act together from the shock and collectively counterattacked.

 

Also I would not that Thadas has technologically advanced if slowly since then and that slow process is to be blamed on he Qunari who send death squads to kill local inventors to try to prevent the locals from gaining any technological advantages. That dwarf inventor with the explosives from awakening, he's dead or in hiding from Qunari death squads now because of his work.

[vertigomez]

Also I would not that Thadas has technologically advanced if slowly since then and that slow process is to be blamed on he Qunari who send death squads to kill local inventors to try to prevent the locals from gaining any technological advantages. That dwarf inventor with the explosives from awakening, he's dead or in hiding from Qunari death squads now because of his work.

That's just incentive to try harder. If only Thedas had something that could give them a leg up... something like gigantic repeating crossbows that can shoot grenades. If only someone wasn't hiding the schematics for that one because it's "too dangerous".

[Arvaarad]

I note that the Chinese were not exactly progressive for most of their history and it showed in the pace of change (esp when change was desperately needed), but for a long time the Chinese were the most technologically advanced society on earth even so. Just because you have technological superiority DOESN'T mean you are able to change.

I'm straying off topic here, but which parts of their three to four thousand years of history are you referring to? "Most" means a couple millenia, at least.

[QueenCrow]

Seems almost a given that DA 4 is going to be focused heavily on the renewed conflict between Tevinter and Qunari. So, with that being the case and in light of recent events in Trespasser, which side would you support? 

 

The Tevinter magocracy or the Qunari triumvirate? 

 

I believe I'd like to decide this after getting a better look at Tevinter and Qunari culture as a whole.  Aside from Dorian and The Iron Bull/Hissrad, we've only seen the worst of both peoples - Tevinter slavers and magisters-turned-darkspawn-gone-wild - and only military arm of the Qunari.

 

And I hope that if this is the decision, that offering support to one side or the other comes with some real cost.  An example is - support offered to Tevinter would be something like 33% or more of all gold the player earns, 30% of companions sacrificed to war, and another 10% come back severely maimed and/or psychologically ruined by the horrors of battle.

 

Let's not "mary-sue/marty-stu" this. 

[Dabrikishaw]

The reason I don't have an issue with picking Tevinter is the fact that the Qunari plan to conquer the world and force everyone into their religion. It's one thing to choose on your own to join the Qun, it's another when, eventually, the Qunari will force you to pick between your (new) life and death.

[The Baconer]

and another 10% come back severely maimed and/or psychologically ruined by the horrors of battle.

 

I don't think that's ever going to happen unless they do a major tonal shift. 

 

PC and PC-parties are exclusive to psychopaths. 

[Cobra's_back]

I was thinking about how best to reply to your statement and just gave up.I can't take anyone seriously that uses LOL to end a sentence with. Knee-jerk reactions like yours mentioning religion when it was not even mentioned and adding in stabbing people because of that religion is silly.The Qun is not even a religion and the Black Chantry in Tevinter is not a devoutly followed as the Andrastrian one.

I am well aware a war will possibly be waged between the two, however it will be more ideology vs free will and the main focus will be more than likely be Solas.

I agree with your thinking. Tevinter reminds me of Rome. The Qun is the make believe Utopia mind control society. It rules by brain-washing people. Having someone else control your thoughts is not the ideal situation  for me at least.

 

Even without Trespassers, I would have said no to the Qun.

[straykat]

Great.. a choice between **** and ****. Oh wait, probably mix in Solas' elves in there too. So more ****. Three sided war. I'm so torn.

 

I don't like anything here so much that I'd just end up picking a favorite simply on artist/designer choices. So probably Tevinter. At least they don't look stupid.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I don't think that's ever going to happen unless they do a major tonal shift. 

 

PC and PC-parties are exclusive to psychopaths. 

 

Yeah...

 

When you really think about it our party is constantly killing people left and right with only the rare occurrence of anyone bring mad about it. And even then, their usually only angry because that particular murder was mildly related to them on a personal level. Combat stress and shell shock just don't exist. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Great.. a choice between **** and ****. Oh wait, probably mix in Solas' elves in there too. So more ****. I'm so torn.

 

I don't like anything here so much that I'd just end up picking a favorite simply on artist/designer choices. So probably Tevinter.

 

Or.

 

[Cobra's_back]

I think Bull and Dorian were introduced to make both sides more palatable to players for the future setting. Tevinter got sanitized the most, compared to how it was presented in DAO and DA2. Still, you have a bunch of slaving blood mages vs. a hybrid of North Korea and ISIS.   

Bull is not really a good follower of the Qun. Sten was the true Qun follower. Bull drops plenty of hints that he doesn't care for the Qun.

[straykat]

Bull is not really a good follower of the Qun. Sten was the true Qun follower. Bull drops plenty of hints that he doesn't care for the Qun.

 

It's not exactly a good intro for new players then (or the Vashoth PC). I don't like the Qun, but it's charm (and humor even) was the whole alien-ness of it all.

[QueenCrow]

I don't think that's ever going to happen unless they do a major tonal shift. 

 

PC and PC-parties are exclusive to psychopaths. 

 

Well, they could include a companion realistically showing the effects of being sent to war by a protagonist decision, if the developers chose.  The result might be as mild as Cullen's suggested post-torture PTSD.  It might be as quiet as Tolkien wrote Frodo's ruin in LoTR.  Or the results, if the devs so chose, might be as serious as a mage companion breaking and succumbing to demonic possession, or a warrior snapping and killing innocents.   Bioware has already danced around that social statement.

 

Or it may be that Bioware will shield all players because, while some are able to navigate a dark side of war, others are just here to have fun playing war.

 

P.S.  I'm going to go away now and think about PC and PC-parties as training grounds for psychopaths.  That's dark, but I can't deny you have a point.  Perhaps that's one of the reasons why, when some kid snaps and shoots up a school, people start pointing their accusatory fingers at the video gaming industry.

[Cobra's_back]

It's not exactly a good intro for new players then (or the Vashoth PC). I don't like the Qun, but it's charm (and humor even) was the whole alien-ness of it all.

True. New players wouldn't know about Sten.

[Cobra's_back]

Well, they could include a companion realistically showing the effects of being sent to war by a protagonist decision, if the developers chose.  The result might be as mild as Cullen's suggested post-torture PTSD.  It might be as quiet as Tolkien wrote Frodo's ruin in LoTR.  Or the results, if the devs so chose, might be as serious as a mage companion breaking and succumbing to demonic possession, or a warrior snapping and killing innocents.   Bioware has already danced around that social statement.

 

Or it may be that Bioware will shield all players because, while some are able to navigate a dark side of war, others are just here to have fun playing war.

 

P.S.  I'm going to go away now and think about PC and PC-parties as training grounds for psychopaths.  That's dark, but I can't deny you have a point.  Perhaps that's one of the reasons why, when some kid snaps and shoots up a school, people start pointing their accusatory fingers at the video gaming industry.

 

Psychopath- a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

Who in their right mind wants to play a Psychopath? I can't see this as enjoyable at all. I would quit the game.