185 réponses à ce sujet

[Mirrman70]

Psychopath- a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

Who in their right mind wants to play a Psychopath? I can't see this as enjoyable at all. I would quit the game.

 

Trevor (GTA5), The Boss (Saints Row franchise), Team Fortress 2, The Joker (Batman), Wario (Mario franchise), The Elder Scrolls series, Fable 1,2 and 3, Prototype, Fallout and the Halo Franchise.

 

just to name a few (popular) games....

[Cobra's_back]

Trevor (GTA5), The Boss (Saints Row franchise), Team Fortress 2, The Joker (Batman), Wario (Mario franchise), The Elder Scrolls series, Fable 1,2 and 3, Prototype, Fallout and the Halo Franchise.

 

just to name a few (popular) games....

Skyrim, the comedy, not to be taken seriously. More like a collection of faction quest and not ALL factions evil. I like Skyrim but I wouldn't put them in the same league as Bioware when it comes to story telling. Skyrim didn't have companions. Those were luggage handlers. 

 

I wouldn't want to play a game where I'm a psychopath murdering my companions too creepy.

[The Baconer]

Well, they could include a companion realistically showing the effects of being sent to war by a protagonist decision, if the developers chose.  The result might be as mild as Cullen's suggested post-torture PTSD.  It might be as quiet as Tolkien wrote Frodo's ruin in LoTR.  Or the results, if the devs so chose, might be as serious as a mage companion breaking and succumbing to demonic possession, or a warrior snapping and killing innocents.   Bioware has already danced around that social statement.

 

It's a damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario. A person couldn't really handle all the death and bloodshed that will inevitably occur in a combat-heavy RPG and still be well-adjusted. 

 

But... it's a video game. Unless they intend to make that kind of game with that kind of message, it just has to fall under suspension of disbelief for the sake of convenience. 

 

 

P.S.  I'm going to go away now and think about PC and PC-parties as training grounds for psychopaths.  That's dark, but I can't deny you have a point.  

 

I wouldn't think about it that way. It's more of a tongue-in-cheek thing or a necessary lack of self-awareness regarding the PC and their companions. 

[Navasha]

Oh Tevinter without a doubt.    The Qun is pretty much everything I despise all rolled up into one philosophy/religion.    I find nothing more abhorrent than a society that devalues individuality and thinks it has the right to determine what its citizens do, act, and even think.  

 

Yes, Tevinter has maybe a third of its population as slaves.   Well, the Qun has 100% of it.   The lesser of two evils by far.  

[Vaseldwa]

Spoiler

To me its more of  "Qunari/chantry" vs "Tevinter/Dorians faction" and that's if we are even given a choice. From the slides at the end of trespasser, the qunari allie with the chantry regardless of what you do with IB and his personal quest. From a few hints through out the game I feel there will be people on both sides that want change. Maybe they will form a group that will fight to change both sides or may choose to fight both or just choose one to side with idk. Maybe we can be part of this "middle faction" and choose between the "Qunari/chantry" or "Tevinter/Dorians faction". But to be more on topic I too would side with Tevinter, why? cuz well Dorian   and I am for change.

  

[QueenCrow]

It's a damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario. A person couldn't really handle all the death and bloodshed that will inevitably occur in a combat-heavy RPG and still be well-adjusted. 

 

But... it's a video game. Unless they intend to make that kind of game with that kind of message, it just has to fall under suspension of disbelief for the sake of convenience. 

 

 

 

I wouldn't think about it that way. It's more of a tongue-in-cheek thing or a necessary lack of self-awareness regarding the PC and their companions. 

 I believe I understand what you're saying. I understand as person who buys combat-heavy games and enjoys them can, when there is no doubt that I would not enjoy an actual combat-heavy reality.

 

Still, I hope that if there is a choice given such as the OP has suggested, there is a cost to engaging.  War is expensive monetarily.  And people die and are broken.  In DA:I, we could lose the Chargers - as a result of a choice made, they died.  Making that person who doesn't come back a companion is upping the stakes slightly, certainly.  In DA:I the Inquisitor looses a limb.  Admittedly that isn't the result of a choice made by the player, but it can be considered an event that lets us step away from suspension of disbelief for a moment.  Perhaps a step up from those feels might be knowing that a companion lost a limb, or was forever changed, because of a decision to send them to war.

 

If the cost is tangible, perhaps the choice is made more interesting without ruining the video game, or leaving the game to tongue-in-cheek psychopathic level of inappropriate cause/effect, risk reluctance, and emotional response.

 

Of course, I do think it would be wise to provide an option stay out of the conflict between Tevinter and Qunari, perhaps limit focus to Solas if he's to be a part of DA4.  And realistically there will be a cost to that too.  

 

P.S.  Thank you for the thought-food.  Necessary lack of self-awareness has me fascinated and will probably keep for the day.

[Arvaarad]

We should all keep in mind, we haven't seen many "normal" people from either empire. On the Qunari side, we've only had contact with their soldiers and their spies, people who would have a more regimented, tightly-controlled life no matter what country they hail from. We have seen exactly zero Qunari civilians.

And it's a moot point regardless, because my protagonist would choose based on their conscience and background, not mine. If they grew up in the north, they'd have prejudices one way or the other that would color their view. For example, a Rivaini, even a mage Rivaini, might have quite positive impressions of the Qun, since Rivain contains both seers (spirit-possessed hedge mages) and a peaceful settlement of Qunari.* A soporati might feel strongly the other way. An ex-slave might have no situations under which they'd support the magisters, even reformers.



*as a sidenote: I wonder if this is why Isabela took the Tome of Koslun job and got in over her head? Her childhood exposure to Qunari would be the peaceful community in Rivain, not the aggressive invaders most Thedosians come to fear.

[The Baconer]

*as a sidenote: I wonder if this is why Isabela took the Tome of Koslun job and got in over her head? Her childhood exposure to Qunari would be the peaceful community in Rivain, not the aggressive invaders most Thedosians come to fear.

 

Her experience was certainly not like that, going by the comics. 

[Statare]

We should all keep in mind, we haven't seen many "normal" people from either empire. On the Qunari side, we've only had contact with their soldiers and their spies, people who would have a more regimented, tightly-controlled life no matter what country they hail from. We have seen exactly zero Qunari civilians.

And it's a moot point regardless, because my protagonist would choose based on their conscience and background, not mine. If they grew up in the north, they'd have prejudices one way or the other that would color their view. For example, a Rivaini, even a mage Rivaini, might have quite positive impressions of the Qun, since Rivain contains both seers (spirit-possessed hedge mages) and a peaceful settlement of Qunari.* A soporati might feel strongly the other way. An ex-slave might have no situations under which they'd support the magisters, even reformers.



*as a sidenote: I wonder if this is why Isabela took the Tome of Koslun job and got in over her head? Her childhood exposure to Qunari would be the peaceful community in Rivain, not the aggressive invaders most Thedosians come to fear.

 

Isabela reveals in The Silent Grove and the other comics of that series that the Qunari were not that great in Rivain and a great deal of Rivaini probably share her negative experiences with them.

 

Edit: It's implied, that even if Isabela's arranged marriage was punishment from her Qun-convert mother and not the demands of the Qun, that Isabela's mother vanished at the hands of the Qunari, for reasons unknown, and that it is unclear if she is alive, dead, or brainwashed.

[Illegitimus]

We should all keep in mind, we haven't seen many "normal" people from either empire. 

 

I sincerely don't care about the normal people from either empire.  It isn't the normal people who are going to invade my homeland (assuming the bog standard Fereldan/Free Marcher) and either troop me into re-education camps where I will be force fed a mix of Stoicism and Legalism, and then assigned a job for the rest of my life and be prohibited from ever romancing an emotionally disturbed girl with short black hair again, or enslave me until they run short of magic and then as good as eat me.  The normal people will just be bakers or street cleaners underneath the guys who scare me.  Sucks to be them and I don't want to be one of them.  

[Ashagar]

And the reducation camps assume the Qunari don't decide to simply break your mind like Iron Bull stated would be done to Varric or your not a mage which means you get a fate that makes the worse southern chantry abuses look saintly in comparison.

[Heimdall]

Spoiler

To me its more of  "Qunari/chantry" vs "Tevinter/Dorians faction" and that's if we are even given a choice. From the slides at the end of trespasser, the qunari allie with the chantry regardless of what you do with IB and his personal quest. From a few hints through out the game I feel there will be people on both sides that want change. Maybe they will form a group that will fight to change both sides or may choose to fight both or just choose one to side with idk. Maybe we can be part of this "middle faction" and choose between the "Qunari/chantry" or "Tevinter/Dorians faction". But to be more on topic I too would side with Tevinter, why? cuz well Dorian   and I am for change.

  

The Chantry and the Qunari only ally if you make the alliance in IB's quest.  It doesn't show up in the slides if you never made the alliance.

[Arvaarad]

Isabela reveals in The Silent Grove and the other comics of that series that the Qunari were not that great in Rivain and a great deal of Rivaini probably share her negative experiences with them.

Edit: It's implied, that even if Isabela's arranged marriage was punishment from her Qun-convert mother and not the demands of the Qun, that Isabela's mother vanished at the hands of the Qunari, for reasons unknown, and that it is unclear if she is alive, dead, or brainwashed.

True, I forgot about that. Although, it still wasn't the warlike conquering aggression that people from other areas would expect. If I'm deciding whether to steal from someone, I'd be more likely to steal from "people who use their status in local government to be a-holes" than "people who use dreadnoughts and spears to be a-holes." The former would have been more dangerous for her in Rivain, but not super threatening to her as a seafaring pirate.

[thats1evildude]

And the reducation camps assume the Qunari don't decide to simply break your mind like Iron Bull stated would be done to Varric or your not a mage which means you get a fate that makes the worse southern chantry abuses look saintly in comparison.

 

Well, to be fair, they only chain mages born under the Qun.

 

All other mages are killed. Already corrupted.

[Vaseldwa]

The Chantry and the Qunari only ally if you make the alliance in IB's quest.  It doesn't show up in the slides if you never made the alliance.

 

Oh yea, my bad. But even if they aren't allied, the southern chantry will no doubt pose a problem for the next protagonist in some way. imo

[Heimdall]

Oh yea, my bad. But even if they aren't allied, the southern chantry will no doubt pose a problem for the next protagonist in some way. imo

I doubt it.  The Chantry doesn't have any presence in Tevinter and I doubt they'd go out of their way to help the Qunari.  They have to know that they're next if the Qunari win.

[straykat]

I get the feeling the next DA will be similar to my viewing of that show "How to Get Away with Murder". There is literally no interesting character there, and I want them to all to die. Better yet, I stopped watching after the first episode.

 

Sorry if not directly relevant. First thing on my mind. I can't find a reason to get stoked. Awhile back, I thought it'd be cool to be an elf in a big city there, but even that sounds lame now. It'll probably be tied to Solas' plot. Making me hate city elves as much as the Dalish now (and Qunari and Tevinter).

[IanPolaris]

Well, to be fair, they only chain mages born under the Qun.

 

All other mages are killed. Already corrupted.

 

Well, that makes it SOOO much better (sarcasm on).

[Arvaarad]

I think part of my perception of Qunari is full-on wishful thinking. Some part of me really, really wants the ultimate message to be something other than "your fear of people who don't look like you or share your religion is 1,000,000% justified. They're perfectly organized, they're hidden among us, they're advancing a secret agenda right under our noses, and their ultimate goal is to convert or kill everyone in their path. Your grandad's incoherent dinner table rant was correct after all!"

I'd love to see more nuance in the Qun, schisms within the philosophy. I mean, looking directly into Koslun's writing, the aggression and war seems tacked on. Koslun was all about mastering oneself, proselytization, even peaceful proselytization, seems so opposed to that. Not that this has ever stopped religious leaders in real life.

And I would be esctatic if some of their "oops, disavowing time" moments are genuine screwups, rather than their shadowy network of sleepers behaving exactly as planned. I would love if their pushes for invasion are either (1) mostly for show or (2) reflective of some scarcity in Par Vollen, a way of dressing up resource grabs in the Qun to make the aggression look more palatable to their own citizens. I want to see incompetence and corruption, rather than vast, well-planned conspiracy of fanatics.

That's what I'd like to see, and I'll admit that colors my view of their culture. I look for the traits I want to see, and emphasize them.

[Illegitimus]

I think part of my perception of Qunari is full-on wishful thinking. Some part of me really, really wants the ultimate message to be something other than "your fear of people who don't look like you or share your religion is 1,000,000% justified. They're perfectly organized, they're hidden among us, they're advancing a secret agenda right under our noses, and their ultimate goal is to convert or kill everyone in their path. Your grandad's incoherent dinner table rant was correct after all!"

I'd love to see more nuance in the Qun, schisms within the philosophy. I mean, looking directly into Koslun's writing, the aggression and war seems tacked on. Koslun was all about mastering oneself, proselytization, even peaceful proselytization, seems so opposed to that. Not that this has ever stopped religious leaders in real life.

And I would be esctatic if some of their "oops, disavowing time" moments are genuine screwups, rather than their shadowy network of sleepers behaving exactly as planned. I would love if their pushes for invasion are either (1) mostly for show or (2) reflective of some scarcity in Par Vollen, a way of dressing up resource grabs in the Qun to make the aggression look more palatable to their own citizens. I want to see incompetence and corruption, rather than vast, well-planned conspiracy of fanatics.

That's what I'd like to see, and I'll admit that colors my view of their culture. I look for the traits I want to see, and emphasize them.

 

When I got my virtual hands on the Dragon Age tabletop game, the first character concept I came up with was a member of a heretical Qunari group who rejected the dictatorial approach that the culture had taken and chose to follow what they imagined the original philosophy was devoid of the coercive elements that they claimed had been added later.  Not that this makes them popular with anyone...

[straykat]

I like the Qunari how they are.

 

I just think they're shitty and need to be the setting's punching bag. I don't want them to change though. I dislike the attempts at trying them make them more approachable. And I don't care for outliers or unique snowflake Qunari who have a better way.

 

In the same way, I liked, for example, the portrayal of the Chantry originally. I stuck in this setting after DAO because of how it was. Not how I wanted it to be.

 

Nor do I want elves to rule everything. In Sten's words, they excel at poverty. It made DA unique. And it made me love the CE Origin more than others.

 

edit: Or at the very least, I don't want it all to change in the "Dragon Age". Leave it for major spinoffs.

[Arvaarad]

I like the Qunari how they are.

I just think they're shitty and need to be the setting's punching bag. I don't them to be change though. I dislike the attempts at trying them make them more approachable. And I don't care for outliers or unique snowflake Qunari who have a better way.

In the same way, I liked, for example, the portrayal of the Chantry originally. I stuck in this setting after DAO because of how it was. Not how I wanted it to be.

Don't darkspawn fill the punching bag role, though? They've got a dash of nuance, but they're mostly the embodiment of evil and annhilation.

[straykat]

Don't darkspawn fill the punching bag role, though? They've got a dash of nuance, but they're mostly the embodiment of evil and annhilation.

 

I just completely dehumanize them though. Qunari at least press my buttons in a real way. They "trigger" me, to use a popular word. lol. Like one of those cops at parades in mirrored sunglasses, who can't be bothered to say hello and constantly acts like his **** doesn't stink. Like some of my stoic family. Like any totalitarian regime. lol.. Among other things.

 

The Darkspawn are more like a swarm of locusts. A force of nature. Not a conflicting personality.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, it's more fun when the fictional punching bag faction is a group of people, not a horde of insidious walking plague monsters. 

[straykat]

Yeah, it's more fun when the fictional punching bag faction is a group of people, not a horde of insidious walking plague monsters. 

 

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

 

Probably.

 

I don't know. Zombies just don't do anything for me. Not fear, not hate, not digust. Just sounds like a dirty chore. Hell, it's why Walking Dead is so interesting -- the people are the enemies. Not the zombies.