185 réponses à ce sujet

[myahele]

Tevinter is ultimately run by Magisters. Tevinter can slowly change it's politics/ laws (like it did in the past); already there's a growing party of Magisters that share the same view as Mae and Dorian. The most important thing is that Tevinter is also Chantry and like what Josephine says "one thing that unites/ have in common all Thedosian nations despite differences is the Chantry"

 

If push comes to shove I can see Tevinter adopting Southern Chantry beliefs if it means it'll save itself and gain Southern Allies like what Hessarian did

 

.... the Qun don't care

[Bigdoser]

They're violent savages tainted by dragon blood, so they require the fascist and Orwellian structure of the Qun to keep them in line.

 

No, seriously, I think that's exactly why Koslun came up with it and why it was accepted by the Kossith, as sad, simplistic and stupid as it sounds.

 

Both Iron Bull and Sten mention the need to maintain self control and both went through psychotic episodes, with Bull needing brainwashing to fix himself. If the Bull is right about the Qunari having dragon blood in them then that would mean that their a race of Reavers. And we all know how dragon blood leads people to go crazy with the benefit of extra strength and power. 

Funny enough if you are friends with solas and you are a Qunari he actually gives this exact reasoning on why they follow the Qun. Minus the dragon blood but I think he already knows that but simply chooses not to tell you. 

[Arvaarad]

Funny enough if you are friends with solas and you are a Qunari he actually gives this exact reasoning on why they follow the Qun. Minus the dragon blood but I think he already knows that but simply chooses not to tell you.

That's such an entertaining bit of dialogue. The way he looks straight in your face while going "their savage natures held in check only by the Qun" (it was something like that, working off memory here). And Adaar just placidly smiling back at him.

I imagined that beneath that placid smile my Adaar was going sweet Maker, this again. Just let the nice man finish and pat him gently on his bald dome. It was... actually pretty accurate to how people react to outrageous racism in real life. Just smile and nod, if you argue you'll be here for hours.

[ComedicSociopathy]

That's such an entertaining bit of dialogue. The way he looks straight in your face while going "their savage natures held in check only by the Qun" (it was something like that, working off memory here). And Adaar just placidly smiling back at him.

I imagined that beneath that placid smile my Adaar was going sweet Maker, this again. Just let the nice man finish and pat him gently on his bald dome. It was... actually pretty accurate to how people react to outrageous racism in real life. Just smile and nod, if you argue you'll be here for hours.

 

Well, he is a god after all. Not caring or thinking about how mere mortals react to what he says is kind of second nature to him.

 

Another reason why Sera Andruil theory is probably true. All elven gods are terribly racist. Fact. 

[Qun00]

They're violent savages tainted by dragon blood, so they require the fascist and Orwellian structure of the Qun to keep them in line.

No, seriously, I think that's exactly why Koslun came up with it and why it was accepted by the Kossith, as sad, simplistic and stupid as it sounds.

Both Iron Bull and Sten mention the need to maintain self control and both went through psychotic episodes, with Bull needing brainwashing to fix himself. If the Bull is right about the Qunari having dragon blood in them then that would mean that their a race of Reavers. And we all know how dragon blood leads people to go crazy with the benefit of extra strength and power.

I think it is no coincidence that in the same game this idea was introduced, the high dragons design changed and they were given Qunari horns.

https://encrypted-tb...0mB4pXT8mVt_u8j

The devs being subtle as usual.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I think it is no coincidence that in the same game this idea was introduced, the high dragons design changed and they were given Qunari horns.

https://encrypted-tb...0mB4pXT8mVt_u8j

The devs being subtle as usual.

 

[TobiTobsen]

Well...Sten was already a Reaver back in the Darkspawn DLC days. Coincidence?

 

I also would like to know if the Qun is actually helping and not just somehow manifesting the problem in the first place. The Vashoth we read and hear about don't seem to be prone or famous for spontaneous fits of homicidal rage. Sten and the Iron Bull, maybe even the Arishok with his table flipping, on the other hand... and don't get me started on the Tal-Vashoth. Going off the deep end seems to be the entire point of them.

[Almostfaceman]

I think it is no coincidence that in the same game this idea was introduced, the high dragons design changed and they were given Qunari horns.

https://encrypted-tb...0mB4pXT8mVt_u8j

The devs being subtle as usual.

 

Maybe a bit sooner than that, say, DA2? 

 

 

[Arvaarad]

Well, he is a god after all. Not caring or thinking about how mere mortals react to what he says is kind of second nature to him.

The best part is, that's what he says if your Adaar is friends with him. So he considers them at least semi-real.

When he's talking to other people, I bet he says "No, I can't be racist against vashoth! I have friends* who are vashoth."



* "one friend" always somehow gets upgraded to "friends" in these situations.

[Heimdall]

They're violent savages tainted by dragon blood, so they require the fascist and Orwellian structure of the Qun to keep them in line.

 

No, seriously, I think that's exactly why Koslun came up with it and why it was accepted by the Kossith, as sad, simplistic and stupid as it sounds.

 

Both Iron Bull and Sten mention the need to maintain self control and both went through psychotic episodes, with Bull needing brainwashing to fix himself. If the Bull is right about the Qunari having dragon blood in them then that would mean that their a race of Reavers. And we all know how dragon blood leads people to go crazy with the benefit of extra strength and power. 

This is exactly my theory.  It fits with the idea that they could have been a Tevinter experiment (Implied by Corypheus' dialogue about them being mistakes), that was erased from their history and fled.

[vertigomez]

Both Iron Bull and Sten mention the need to maintain self control and both went through psychotic episodes, with Bull needing brainwashing to fix himself. If the Bull is right about the Qunari having dragon blood in them then that would mean that their a race of Reavers. And we all know how dragon blood leads people to go crazy with the benefit of extra strength and power.

To be fair, Bull spent almost a decade in a warzone where two years is considered the upper limit of time one can spend there without losing their mind. I would've lost my **** waaaay before the dude with dragon blood, but maybe that's just a credit to Bull's character.

I get your point, though.

This is exactly my theory.  It fits with the idea that they could have been a Tevinter experiment (Implied by Corypheus' dialogue about them being mistakes), that was erased from their history and fled.

And OGB Kieran's comments as well.

[Arvaarad]

Well...Sten was already a Reaver back in the Darkspawn DLC days. Coincidence?

 

I also would like to know if the Qun is actually helping and not just somehow manifesting the problem in the first place. The Vashoth we read and hear about don't seem to be prone or famous for spontaneous fits of homicidal rage. Sten and the Iron Bull, maybe even the Arishok with his table flipping, on the other hand... and don't get me started on the Tal-Vashoth. Going off the deep end seems to be the entire point of them.

 

The Arishok is kind of a special case, because he had a wee bit of a problem with alcoholism. No, seriously:

 

 

The Arishok never drinks in front of Hawke, but he keeps a Fenris-worthy pile of wine bottles hidden beside his throne.

 

I was so intrigued the first time I saw this, because the game designers put them in a place that 99% of players wouldn't see. He's an intimidating figure, so we would be unlikely to tromp all into his space. And the stairs in front/the throne's design meant that you had to invade his space to see them. But go around the back, and there they are, plain as day. It's such a neat little detail, and it added a whole new dimension to the Arishok when I saw it.

[straykat]

The Qunari needing the Qun for some sense of control is thrown out the window. The Inquisition can potentially have two Qunari who are clones and seemingly don't need it. It might've been something worth pondering if it was just Bull and tied to his personal trauma. But the Inquisitor just makes it even more of a stupid idea. They can be cheeky and look like some poncey noble going to ballroom dances with Celene, of all people. Among many other things.

[Riftwalker]

Well...Sten was already a Reaver back in the Darkspawn DLC days. Coincidence?

 

I also would like to know if the Qun is actually helping and not just somehow manifesting the problem in the first place. The Vashoth we read and hear about don't seem to be prone or famous for spontaneous fits of homicidal rage. Sten and the Iron Bull, maybe even the Arishok with his table flipping, on the other hand... and don't get me started on the Tal-Vashoth. Going off the deep end seems to be the entire point of them.

 

This is why I said I don't think we've seen the full force of the Qun. Not at all. Not a bit. We've seen one guy in Origins who went a little crazy after losing his sword, but the Warden helped him find it again. Not really much of an example of the Qun. We saw the Arishok and his men in Kirkwall, but they weren't acting right. Not as the Qun dictated. Think about it - after his death, apparently the qunari renounced his actions. To me, that says that he wasn't representing the Qun the way he was supposed to be - the way the Qun demanded. Then we have the Iron Bull, who is already teetering on the line between Tal Vashoth and qunari when we first meet him and dealing, in his own, personal way, with the idea that perhaps the Qun isn't for him. And then we have the events in Trespasser, and according to a piece of correspondence you find, those weren't sanctioned by the qunari, either.

 

What this says to me is that the qunari and the Salasari have precious little hold over their people. The events that we hear about, the parts of the Qun we hear about are through the eyes and ears of people whose judgment is already altered or clouded in some way. Sten was perhaps the closest we had to a "real" qunari, as he warranted a promotion to Arishok upon his return, but that was after his exposure to the Warden, traveling with said Warden as a companion, and figuring out what the Blight was. And he might have been made Arishok for exactly that reason - because he went out into the world of other people, and came back relatively unscathed. Not only unscathed, but with useful information and observations about the humans, elves, and dwarves on top of it.

 

We haven't seen the full force of the Qun because that appears to only exist in Par Vollen, and things are really, really different in Par Vollen, according to the few bits of lore we've gotten about it. We haven't seen the full force of the Qun because all we've seen are pieces of its army, and that's only one facet of the triumvirate. So I can't really make that decision about which side to side with, because I don't think we really know either side, not completely - we know a bit more about Tevinter, but I think there's still plenty to learn in that aspect, too.

[Kurogane335]

I think it is no coincidence that in the same game this idea was introduced, the high dragons design changed and they were given Qunari horns.

https://encrypted-tb...0mB4pXT8mVt_u8j

The devs being subtle as usual.

 

Actually... even some hornless dragons were added so... maybe the hornlessness also comes from them. So far, we have seen three kind of Dragons :

-those with horns looking like The Iron Bull horns

-those with no horns and a prominent brow (which kinda remind me of the Hornless Qunari brow in the game, since both seems more larger than usual for dragon/humanoid)

-the horns of the Guardian of Mythal, which looks very close to the Viddasala horns

 

So, it is plausible that the Qunari were actually created through the mix of various dragons's subspecies. We don't really know what kind of effects it could have had on their physiology, especially since their ancestors probably never drank blood in great quantities but were probably infused magically with it.

[vertigomez]

I read a theory that the "hornless qunari are destined for something special" superstition comes from being one-step further removed from their dragon ancestors than their horned brethren. The idea being that that would make them appear less dragony, so less violent and overall more ideal according to Qunari society.

Probably still a superstition, since Sten can be as violent as anybody, but it's a thought.

[Heimdall]

I read a theory that the "hornless qunari are destined for something special" superstition comes from being one-step further removed from their dragon ancestors than their horned brethren. The idea being that that would make them appear less dragony, so less violent and overall more ideal according to Qunari society.

Probably still a superstition, since Sten can be as violent as anybody, but it's a thought.

Most likely the Tamassrans are trying to breed out the aggressive dragon traits, which would explain why the Qunari we meet don't always seem to need such strict order and why they believe hornless Qunari are special, less dragonny.

[Kurogane335]

Most likely the Tamassrans are trying to breed out the aggressive dragon traits, which would explain why the Qunari we meet don't always seem to need such strict order and why they believe hornless Qunari are special, less dragonny.

That's probably true, but the question is... can they ? After all, they need strong warriors, and the dragon traits probably help a lot to do just that. So perhaps they have reached a dead-end : they can't breed out the dragon traits without greatly weakening the Qunari and they don't know how to get out of this mess. After all, after centuries (at the very least) of selective breeding, they should have improved the number of horn-less Qunari, but it doesn't appear to be the case.

[Heimdall]

That's probably true, but the question is... can they ? After all, they need strong warriors, and the dragon traits probably help a lot to do just that. So perhaps they have reached a dead-end : they can't breed out the dragon traits without greatly weakening the Qunari and they don't know how to get out of this mess. After all, after centuries (at the very least) of selective breeding, they should have improved the number of horn-less Qunari, but it doesn't appear to be the case.

I don't think they want to eliminate it, exactly, but render it more manageable.

According to Bull, they admire dragons as expressions of raw uncontrolled power. They just want to control the power. Qunari like Sten don't actually seem to be weaker than other Qunari, so they must be doing something right.

[Blood Mage Reaver]

Guys, the origin of the Qunari and the history of their religion is not the topic of this thread.

 

All I can say here about that is that the kossith probably invented the Qun to control the urges of their barbaric past but as time went on and their dragon blood thinned out it lost it's original purpose and became a rigid dogmatic system with no signs of improving.

 

Tevinter on the other hand started outright satanic with barbarians forming a kingdom of dragon worshippers with systematic slavery and sacrifices, however, as time went on they became increasingly progressive with sacrifices being outlawed and slavery becoming increasingly shunned.

 

When choosing between Tevinter and Qunari, it boils down to choosing between a corrupt but progressively reforming institution and one which is clean but absolutely immovable in their system. I'd rather stay with a villain who is struggling to change her ways than with an anti-hero whose zealotry guarantees he will stab me in the back.

 

Important to notice, however, it's that Qunari are either not as unified as they claim or simply retcon their failures as unsanctioned actions to save face.

 

The Arishok I can understand but this whole deal of trying to blow you up then dismissing it as the actions of a splinter faction sounds just too Cerberus for me to believe.

[The Baconer]

You can't really call Tevinter as it is progressive. They've really moved backwards since Hessarian's reforms, but maybe that can be changed. 

[vertigomez]

I wonder just how bad Tevinter has to get before people start leaning towards the Qun. Have they not exceeded the quota for maximum bastardry yet, or is being a cog in the machine so wholly off-putting that no one's even willing to consider it?

I'm struggling to think of something myself. What wouldn't I tolerate for free will..?

[Ashagar]

It would have to get as least as bad as the ancient Imperium at the time of the first blight I would imagine because rightfully so given the Qun is a oppressive Orwellian society complete with thought police and ministries of love and truth.

[The Baconer]

I wonder just how bad Tevinter has to get before people start leaning towards the Qun. Have they not exceeded the quota for maximum bastardry yet, or is being a cog in the machine so wholly off-putting that no one's even willing to consider it?

I'm struggling to think of something myself. What wouldn't I tolerate for free will..?

 

They both practice slavery, which is the most distasteful characteristic a person will generally associate with any given society. Tevinter, how ever, is clearly going to collapse if it keeps carrying on the way it is... so you can't expect that to be a problem for much longer, one way or the other. 

 

The Qunari, on the other hand, are as strong as ever, with no inclination to change (as far as we know). Then there's always breeding programs and the Gestapo. 

[Ashagar]

I would note that Tevinter at least has reformists and the possibility of reform, the same cant be said for the Qunari.