185 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

DAI has more than one Qunari that hopes that parts of the Qun will change.

[Arvaarad]

I would note that Tevinter at least has reformists and the possibility of reform, the same cant be said for the Qunari.

Looking for reforming Qunari in southern Thedas is a bit like looking for hippies in a warzone. Then finding none, and concluding that everyone back home is satisfied with the war.

If people are pushing for reform, they're busy doing it back at home. Reform, by definition, requires extended contact with your home country, which is why Dorian zipped back to Tevinter as soon as Corypheus died, and Maevaris never left.

[Illegitimus]

Looking for reforming Qunari in southern Thedas is a bit like looking for hippies in a warzone. Then finding none, and concluding that everyone back home is satisfied with the war.

If people are pushing for reform, they're busy doing it back at home. 

 

And not for long thanks to the re-education rooms.  

[Samahl na Revas]

// I would choose neither, I would choose knowledge. Magic in the south needs to be more civilized and more so in Tevinter in order to rebuff the Qunari ideology. Court systems and accountability for magic and science need to be established. The governing party of such establishments can not be mages alone. This is one of the outcomes I had wished for the inquisition because the south is divided, Seekers of truth and justice. What is done is done. Magic is dangerous. Solas's solution to be and act as the sole dispenser of judgment upon criminal/violent mages chains the generations to a particular path. Each generation is the possibility to uncover new freedoms and understanding within the system of their society. 

 

// Without reform in Tevinter and the South the Qunari ideology is not that bad. Plus I'm curious of how they dream and are able to use magic, poor saarebas.

 

 

What pride had wrought?  

 

"Age by age have men stood up and said to the world, 'From what has come before me, I was forged, but I am new and greater than my forebears.' And so each man walks the world in ruin, abandoned and untried. Less than the whole of his being."--Sten

 

Within the Qun, an individual exists to serve.--Sten  

 

"So long as they are willing to accept their place in the world."--Sten

 

It is better to live well, than to live.--Sten

[Arvaarad]

And not for long thanks to the re-education rooms.

And reformers in Tevinter regularly get assassinated.

If the mere existence of reeducation makes Qunari reform impossible, then Tevinter backstabbing would likewise make Tevinter reform impossible. But no anti-reform measure, whether it be death or reprogramming, is 100% effective. Maybe the reformer is lucky enough to have sympathizers among their superiors. Or subtle enough that people don't see them as a threat at first. Maybe, like the Lucerni, they manage to get outside assistance.

Reformers always face challenges. Doesn't make reform impossible.

[Heimdall]

And reformers in Tevinter regularly get assassinated.

If the mere existence of reeducation makes Qunari reform impossible, then Tevinter backstabbing would likewise make Tevinter reform impossible. But no anti-reform measure, whether it be death or reprogramming, is 100% effective. Maybe the reformer is lucky enough to have sympathizers among their superiors. Or subtle enough that people don't see them as a threat at first. Maybe, like the Lucerni, they manage to get outside assistance.

Reformers always face challenges. Doesn't make reform impossible.

Reformers face challenges, but Tevinter's system is not inherently bound to the facets that reformers wish to change.  I would say it has less rigidity and thus a greater chance for reform to be effective than under the Qun, which tolerates no dissent whatsoever.

[Illegitimus]

And reformers in Tevinter regularly get assassinated.

If the mere existence of reeducation makes Qunari reform impossible, then Tevinter backstabbing would likewise make Tevinter reform impossible

 

It might.  However the difference between Tevinter and the Qunari is that you can get away with a lot more in Tevinter because they have nothing approaching efficient internal policing.  

[ModernAcademic]

Seems almost a given that DA 4 is going to be focused heavily on the renewed conflict between Tevinter and Qunari. So, with that being the case and in light of recent events in Trespasser, which side would you support? 

 

The Tevinter magocracy or the Qunari triumvirate? 

 

That's a tough one. Tevinter at least allows for free thought, even though it's a system based on slavery.

The Qunari teach there's only one truth, and that resides in the Qun.

 

Tevinter is controlled by blood magic, while the Qunari abhor blood mages and other vile magical practices.

The problem is that under the Qun all magic is seen as a corrupting influence and mages have a miserable life as Saarebas, being blinded, gagged and kept in chains.

 

Tevinter has a rich culture and much knowledge recovered from the Ancient Elves. It has magical wanders unlike anywhere else. But the corruption of the Magisterium has made the Empire become decadent. 

The Qunari offer little in terms of culture, but much in terms of certainty, order and equality. Every vidathari is taught how to defend itself, the Law is clear, justice is applied with impartialty and there's no poverty. People benefit from the certainty and relative freedom under the Qun, something the slaves of Tevinter will never know in an unequal and unfair society.

 

 

So, tough decision. But knowing what it's like to live under a regime so similar to that of Tevinter -a highly hierarchized society marred with corruption, poverty, injustice and incompetent leaders who only think of themselves and resort to manipulation and deceit to keep their power -, I feel inclined to siding with the Qun. Nothing worse than feeling impotent to reverse all the injustice done to you. Or try to improve your life through hard work and dedication only to find out nothing has changed, for you and for others, but the corrupt keep getting richer after every year. 

[incinerator451]

Tevinter. Bad and for whqt it's worse, a negative Byzantine based magic culture that also is ironically the next stop for Qunari invasion.

[KumoriYami]

Definitely Tevinter. You have a nation and society that actually has people that show a willingness for change and reform, to help dispel the country's horrible perception across Thedas, while the Qun won't even let you think about changing anything without resorting to saraqamek or however it's spelt.

[Hinjo]

Neither. Unless the protagonist will be from Tevinter/Seheron (and thus they would fight for patriotic reasons), I really have no idea why should I meddle in politics and play a soldier boy.

 

Besides, if either Tevinter or Qunari will NEED protagonist's help to WIN the war... it DESERVES to fall. Or is our protagonist only competent and responsible person in whole Thedas?

[Frenetic Pony]

What if you're not for either but are instead for a third party? Tevinter is pictured as an ancient, rotting empire that hasn't so much kept up with the times as been fixated on its own past glory. The Qunari, or the Qun rather, bears a passing resemblance to a cross between communism and islam, which is to say a belief that puts itself above a system of government without actually being a system of government. EG Catholicism in Europe during the middle ages, where even Kings owed "loyalty" to the pope even though the pope didn't govern anything or help anyone.

 

So what if there's a third ending, where instead of "X or Y wins, and you choose." you end up reforming both? Heck, that would make for a more interesting series of choices along the way. You, random person thrown into conflict cause whatever, get to help shape an entire society! It would lend itself to far more interesting decisions than "be a saint/kick a puppy" anyway.

[Blood Mage Reaver]

And reformers in Tevinter regularly get assassinated.

If the mere existence of reeducation makes Qunari reform impossible, then Tevinter backstabbing would likewise make Tevinter reform impossible. But no anti-reform measure, whether it be death or reprogramming, is 100% effective. Maybe the reformer is lucky enough to have sympathizers among their superiors. Or subtle enough that people don't see them as a threat at first. Maybe, like the Lucerni, they manage to get outside assistance.

Reformers always face challenges. Doesn't make reform impossible.

 

The big difference is that reformers in Tevinter have influence while dissenters of the Qun have none.

 

Maevaris and Dorian are both rich people with allies and the power to fight back, in the ending were the latter romances Bull he even gets rescued by his lover.

 

Qunari dissenters have but one option, to become Tal-Vashoth and flee or get their brains melted by Saar-Quamek and serve as menial laborers.

 

It's the difference between a rich guy making anti-government protests in Russia and a peasant or soldier trying to voice dissent in North Korea. The former might get assassinated but the government will never officially attack him, the later will not only be killed or brutally re-educated but will be publicly made an example of as an enemy of all society.

[Kurogane335]

The big difference is that reformers in Tevinter have influence while dissenters of the Qun have none.

 

Maevaris and Dorian are both rich people with allies and the power to fight back, in the ending were the latter romances Bull he even gets rescued by his lover.

 

Qunari dissenters have but one option, to become Tal-Vashoth and flee or get their brains melted by Saar-Quamek and serve as menial laborers.

 

It's the difference between a rich guy making anti-government protests in Russia and a peasant or soldier trying to voice dissent in North Korea. The former might get assassinated but the government will never officially attack him, the later will not only be killed or brutally re-educated but will be publicly made an example of as an enemy of all society.

 You don't know any of that about the Qun. In fact, we don't know anything about that. Reforming may also be Tamassran like Hisrrad's, who slowly try to change things by the way they teach their pupils. Or there could be a whole current of people who, while perfectly performing their duties, also express a vision different from the likes of Sten, Viddasala or most of the Antaam that we have seen so far.

[Cute Nug]

If we have to ally with the Vents or the Qun or both I just hope they will allow the protag the option of suitable dialogue addressing our poor opinion of both.

In DAI if you disliked the Orlesian empire choices you still had to sickeningly join them in playing "the game" to bring back stability in Southern Thedas. Instead of seeming like a royal sycophant it would have to been nice for RP to verbalize your disgust at the current state of Orlesian politics.

 

If we have to ally with the Vents or the Qun in DA4 I hope they write meaningful dialogue that let's us address these issues.

 

In DAI we have a whole lot of epic stupid from mages, templars, seekers, grey wardens, the chantry, and Orlesian nobility. Seems like some important stuff the Quizzy would mention in conversations but other then some very basic comments the Quizzy seemed spinelessly silent in dialogue. Maybe it's too hard to do any real dialogue about ongoing events in game but it seemed like a missed opportunity that would have made for a more interesting game. Thedas is an interesting world and it would be nice to have ongoing dialogue from our protag that reflects that.

 

IMO the protag in DAI was way too bland. They did better in Tresspasser and I hope that continues in DA4. 

[ModernAcademic]

I would note that Tevinter at least has reformists and the possibility of reform, the same cant be said for the Qunari.

 

Somehow, I think DA 4 will present some fact or companion that will challenge that truth.

 

Remember how we all used to hate Magisters on principle? How Danarius was the confirmation of this much deserved hatred?

 

And then Dorian comes along and we are all charmed by the fun, clever and sassy Tevinter who happens to have a virtuous character, hate blood magic and come from a family of historical opponents to this oppressive system.

 

It's like the black swan theory. You think all swans in nature are white because that's the only color you see. But all it takes is for one black swan to exist to crush your theory.

 

Qunari politics are more complex than we think. As DA4 will be centered in Tevinter and the ending of Trespasser hints at the Qunari beginning their invasion, we'll undoubtedly learn just how complex it is. And a lot of players who oppose the Qun might end up reconsidering their position.

[Ashagar]

It would take a lot to make me reconsider my opinion of a society that's basically a fantasy version of 1984.

[Dabrikishaw]

Again, I wouldn't care about the Qun's existence if the Qunari weren't going to convert all of Thedas by force in the future. If that magically stops being the case then i'll stop defaulting to siding with Tevinter.

[Heimdall]

Somehow, I think DA 4 will present some fact or companion that will challenge that truth.

 

Remember how we all used to hate Magisters on principle? How Danarius was the confirmation of this much deserved hatred?

 

And then Dorian comes along and we are all charmed by the fun, clever and sassy Tevinter who happens to have a virtuous character, hate blood magic and come from a family of historical opponents to this oppressive system.

 

It's like the black swan theory. You think all swans in nature are white because that's the only color you see. But all it takes is for one black swan to exist to crush your theory.

 

Qunari politics are more complex than we think. As DA4 will be centered in Tevinter and the ending of Trespasser hints at the Qunari beginning their invasion, we'll undoubtedly learn just how complex it is. And a lot of players who oppose the Qun might end up reconsidering their position.

Here's the thing.  The Magisters are people.  Whatever evil they perform is their choice.  So of course they aren't all mustache twirling evil.

 

The Qun is a way of life, one that has an entire organization dedicated to reeducating those that stray from the approved path and policies.  In a system so singlemindedly dedicated to suppressing individual will and agency, I have a hard time imagining any meaningful reform movement getting off the ground.  The problem is that any Qunari that meaningfully rejects principles of the Qunari way, like Iron Bull, is straying into Tal Vashoth territory.  They would sooner execute them than let them into a position where they could change things.  Execution, not a shadowy assassination attempt from rivals that can't destroy you publicly or undermine your political influence, being declared an enemy of the state and killed.

 

So i don't see the terms of the Qun itself changing.  BUT, I could see a movement against the expansionist principle of the Qun from a part of the priesthood.

[ModernAcademic]

Here's the thing.  The Magisters are people.  Whatever evil they perform is their choice.  So of course they aren't all mustache twirling evil.

 

The Qun is a way of life, one that has an entire organization dedicated to reeducating those that stray from the approved path and policies.  In a system so singlemindedly dedicated to suppressing individual will and agency, I have a hard time imagining any meaningful reform movement getting off the ground.  The problem is that any Qunari that meaningfully rejects principles of the Qunari way, like Iron Bull, is straying into Tal Vashoth territory.  They would sooner execute them than let them into a position where they could change things.  Execution, not a shadowy assassination attempt from rivals that can't destroy you publicly or undermine your political influence, being declared an enemy of the state and killed.

 

So i don't see the terms of the Qun itself changing.  BUT, I could see a movement against the expansionist principle of the Qun from a part of the priesthood.

 

Same thing happened in Tevinter. Dorian's father was assassinated. I bet some Magisters would even say he had it coming.

 

And the Qun doesn't suppress individuals, it teaches and guides them ever since childhood so they can find their purpose and find fulfillment in what they do. They help people find who they truly are and they think of your personal needs. 

 

Tevinter has freedom of thought ONLY for those in power. A slave can't say what he thinks to his master, just as he can't choose how to live. The two systems are tyrannical, except that the Qun doesn't force you to sell yourself as work force and nobody is trying to exploit you.

You either live by the philosophy of the Qun or you get out. And if you do, you'll be taken care of. You'll be taught to defend yourself. They'll find you an occupation suited to your talents. If you are conflicted, you can seek help. Hell, even if you need sex, they have the means to satisfy you.

 

In the end, you have more personal freedom under the Qun than in Tevinter. If you're a Magister, you can enjoy many kinds of freedom. But if you are everybody else, one of the 99% enslaved, you can do NOTHING. They OWN you. Be prepared to be ritually abused by your master - physically, mentally or sexually -, to be ordered around like cattle and even to have your blood spilled if he needs fuel for his blood magic. Bear in mind Dorian's family supposed decent treatment of slaves was an exception to the norm.

 

You think most people care about freedom of thought? What they care about is having a good job, comfort, safety for their family and the means to have fun. Most people don't even care about politics. To them, whoever is in charge is fine, so long as taxes don't raise too much and he can pay his bills by the end of the month. The same can be said of most thedosians. Those that abandoned the old institutions and went to join the Inquisition only did so because their way of life wa threatened by this huge crisis. Soldiers don't fight for idealistic reasons. They fight so that their families will sleep safe at night and they'll get a decent pay by the end of the day.

 

It's not like the Qunari will cut your tongue for complaining that you can't be a painter or a fighter. There are limitations as to what you can do defined by your gender, age, etc. But they'll do whatever they can to see that every subject finds his real purpose living under the Qun. They CARE about your welfare. You don't have that in Tevinter. There, you have no rights but to bow your head and say 'Yes, master'. And if you don't, prepare to be severely whipped. 

 

 

I don't think either system is perfect, but the Qun can improve. They can learn from what the women in Southern Thedas have to teach them. And compared to Tevinter, it has MORE respect to an individual's needs - spiritual, mental and physical - than Tevinter ever will. So I like to think there are Qunari agents fighting for positive changes in the Qun, such as allowing women to have more career choices. 

Different cultures learn from each other. And this invasion will undoubtedly change the Qunari in more ways than they realise. 

[ModernAcademic]

If there are still any doubts as to how Tevinter is as (or more) oppressive than the Qun, just remember what Fenris once said:

 

Many Circle mages wish to flee to Tevinter, believing they'll gain their freedom when in fact, most mages there are slaves to the Magisters.

[Ashagar]

Same thing happened in Tevinter. Dorian's father was assassinated. I bet some Magisters would even say he had it coming.

 

And the Qun doesn't suppress individuals, it teaches and guides them ever since childhood so they can find their purpose and find fulfillment in what they do. They help people find who they truly are and they think of your personal needs. 

 

Tevinter has freedom of thought ONLY for those in power. A slave can't say what he thinks to his master, just as he can't choose how to live. The two systems are tyrannical, except that the Qun doesn't force you to sell yourself as work force and nobody is trying to exploit you.

You either live by the philosophy of the Qun or you get out. And if you do, you'll be taken care of. You'll be taught to defend yourself. They'll find you an occupation suited to your talents. If you are conflicted, you can seek help. Hell, even if you need sex, they have the means to satisfy you.

 

In the end, you have more personal freedom under the Qun than in Tevinter. If you're a Magister, you can enjoy many kinds of freedom. But if you are everybody else, one of the 99% enslaved, you can do NOTHING. They OWN you. Be prepared to be ritually abused by your master - physically, mentally or sexually -, to be ordered around like cattle and even to have your blood spilled if he needs fuel for his blood magic. Bear in mind Dorian's family supposed decent treatment of slaves was an exception to the norm.

 

You think most people care about freedom of thought? What they care about is having a good job, comfort, safety for their family and the means to have fun. Most people don't even care about politics. To them, whoever is in charge is fine, so long as taxes don't raise too much and he can pay his bills by the end of the month. The same can be said of most thedosians. Those that abandoned the old institutions and went to join the Inquisition only did so because their way of life wa threatened by this huge crisis. Soldiers don't fight for idealistic reasons. They fight so that their families will sleep safe at night and they'll get a decent pay by the end of the day.

 

It's not like the Qunari will cut your tongue for complaining that you can't be a painter or a fighter. There are limitations as to what you can do defined by your gender, age, etc. But they'll do whatever they can to see that every subject finds his real purpose living under the Qun. They CARE about your welfare. You don't have that in Tevinter. There, you have no rights but to bow your head and say 'Yes, master'. And if you don't, prepare to be severely whipped. 

 

 

I don't think either system is perfect, but the Qun can improve. They can learn from what the women in Southern Thedas have to teach them. And compared to Tevinter, it has MORE respect to an individual's needs - spiritual, mental and physical - than Tevinter ever will. So I like to think there are Qunari agents fighting for positive changes in the Qun, such as allowing women to have more career choices. 

Different cultures learn from each other. And this invasion will undoubtedly change the Qunari in more ways than they realise. 

No the Qunari don't cut your tongue out, instead they will either A. literally brainwash you or B. Permanently break your mind if they can't brainwash you as Iron Bull Flat stated would be done to Varric leaving the person a husk fit only for manual labor both of which are frankly vastly worse than blood magic or killing the person. Also those who leave the Qun are considered worse than criminals to be hunted down and killed like dogs even if they have done nothing to anyone other than leave. Also what they do to mages is frankly so evil and wrong even the more fanatical mage haters in the south are horrified by it.

 

Another thing is to keep in mind that the Magisters are not the only free people in Tevinter though Magisters rule there yes but are entire classes of people in Tevinter who are not slaves but are not Magisters, the population of Tevinter is simply not divided into slaves and Mages.

[mgagne]

Teviter of course.  Par Vollen sounds and feels like such a dreary place.  And I dislike big horned grew cows.  I had more sympathies for Sten in DAO then Bull in DAI as a matter of fact.

[Ashagar]

If there are still any doubts as to how Tevinter is as (or more) oppressive than the Qun, just remember what Fenris once said:

 

Many Circle mages wish to flee to Tevinter, believing they'll gain their freedom when in fact, most mages there are slaves to the Magisters.

 

Fenris, the trouble of what he states is colored by some by his missing memories, spending time as the servant of one of the more disturbed Magisters and his fanatical hatred which colors everything he sees and does to the point he was willing to murder his own kin who's freedom he had originally sought.

[Heimdall]

Same thing happened in Tevinter. Dorian's father was assassinated. I bet some Magisters would even say he had it coming.
 
And the Qun doesn't suppress individuals, it teaches and guides them ever since childhood so they can find their purpose and find fulfillment in what they do. They help people find who they truly are and they think of your personal needs.

I believe I adequately explained the significant difference between being declared an enemy of the state and a political assassination.

It absolutely suppresses individuals, it's entire philosophy is built around suppressing individual desire and agency, encouraging them to be complacent in their assigned roles and think no further. They analyze people and assign them jobs they think will suit their skills, they demand total submission to that ruling, to that role. The Qun helps people find purpose only in the sense that it assigns purpose for them. It encourages complacency in all things under the Qun. If there's anything Solas got right about the Qun, it's that it teaches people not to think, only to accept.
 

Tevinter has freedom of thought ONLY for those in power. A slave can't say what he thinks to his master, just as he can't choose how to live. The two systems are tyrannical, except that the Qun doesn't force you to sell yourself as work force and nobody is trying to exploit you.

A slave can be freed and struggle for more. It's not much, but it's more mobility and agency than those under the Qun are permitted. More importantly, most in Tevinter aren't slaves. The Soporati may not have political power (Though there is a non-mage house in the Imperial Senate beside the Magisterium, albeit a toothless one but that can change one day), but they have broad freedoms within society and potential options they can pursue. The magisters in the halls of power may practice blood magic beyond closed doors and mages may be a privileged class in Tevinter, but we haven't heard much evidence of oppression and abuse of the non-mages on a systematic level. Slaves are abused and many Magisters are corrupt, but those are things that can be addressed and possibly changed in the future. The problems most people have with the Qun are rooted in the basic tenets of its ideology.
 

You either live by the philosophy of the Qun or you get out. And if you do, you'll be taken care of. You'll be taught to defend yourself. They'll find you an occupation suited to your talents. If you are conflicted, you can seek help. Hell, even if you need sex, they have the means to satisfy you.

You mean you either live by the philosophy of the Qun or you die, or your mind is broken to make you a lobotomized automaton. If you're gonna talk about slaves, then you need to talk about them, and the ways they treat mages in full compliance with the Qun. Is teaching them to accept mutilation, chains and to immolate themselves for fear of contamination helping them find their purpose?

If someone is conflicted under the Qun, they seek help to make them stop feeling conflicted, to teach them not to question the system they live under, to not be burdened with difficult thoughts. That's not a positive in my book.  Those are precisely the kind of thoughts people need to be thinking if the Qun were ever to change for the better.
 

In the end, you have more personal freedom under the Qun than in Tevinter. If you're a Magister, you can enjoy many kinds of freedom. But if you are everybody else, one of the 99% enslaved, you can do NOTHING. They OWN you. Be prepared to be ritually abused by your master - physically, mentally or sexually -, to be ordered around like cattle and even to have your blood spilled if he needs fuel for his blood magic. Bear in mind Dorian's family supposed decent treatment of slaves was an exception to the norm.

Soporati compose the majority of society and they aren't slaves. Slaves don't compose a majority of the population, let alone 99% So while it sucks to be a slave, I don't see how its worse than being a Saarebas or a mind-broken Qamek thrall.
 

You think most people care about freedom of thought? What they care about is having a good job, comfort, safety for their family and the means to have fun. Most people don't even care about politics. To them, whoever is in charge is fine, so long as taxes don't raise too much and he can pay his bills by the end of the month. The same can be said of most thedosians. Those that abandoned the old institutions and went to join the Inquisition only did so because their way of life wa threatened by this huge crisis. Soldiers don't fight for idealistic reasons. They fight so that their families will sleep safe at night and they'll get a decent pay by the end of the day.

If ideals didn't influence human thought so strongly, a whole lot of human history wouldn't make sense. People do fight for ideals. People are motivated by material needs, of course, but its a bleak world where its all people care about. Besides, it it not ideology that motivates the Qunari? Freedom of thought is crucially important because as long as it is permitted then the possibilities for change, both personal and on a societal level, remain open. That's why the Qun (And totalitarian regimes throughout history) suppresses it, they want a society so stable as to be stagnant.
 

It's not like the Qunari will cut your tongue for complaining that you can't be a painter or a fighter. There are limitations as to what you can do defined by your gender, age, etc. But they'll do whatever they can to see that every subject finds his real purpose living under the Qun. They CARE about your welfare. You don't have that in Tevinter. There, you have no rights but to bow your head and say 'Yes, master'. And if you don't, prepare to be severely whipped

No, but if your persistent they will send you in for reeducation and possible break your mind with Qamek. The Qunari cares about your welfare as a cog in a machine, fulfilling your preassigned role. You aren't an individual, your a machine that they maintain so you can keep fulfilling your function. You start breaking, they fix you, hammer you back into place. You keep talking about them "guiding people to their purpose", but they don't let people find their purpose, they assign it according to aptitude tests regardless of personal goals and they far from guarantee satisfaction. If they did, the Ben Hassrath wouldn't have a reason to exist.

Yeah, Tevinter society really isn't like that. Some magisters may treat their immediate slaves that way, but the non-mages in tevinter vastly outnumber the mages and the majority of them aren't slaves.
 

I don't think either system is perfect, but the Qun can improve. They can learn from what the women in Southern Thedas have to teach them. And compared to Tevinter, it has MORE respect to an individual's needs - spiritual, mental and physical - than Tevinter ever will. So I like to think there are Qunari agents fighting for positive changes in the Qun, such as allowing women to have more career choices. 
Different cultures learn from each other. And this invasion will undoubtedly change the Qunari in more ways than they realise.

Neither system is perfect by a long shot, I agree, infact their both rather horrid but I just don't see how the Qun is likely to change. The Qun is too staunchly dedicated to complacency and suppression of free thought to accept much change. Like I said, they have a whole organization devoted to reeducating people who have unorthodox thoughts. That's what will happen to Qunari who start advocating for reform.

But in Tevinter, the mechanisms are already in place. Non-mages already have a house in the senate, the Publicanium (Which is composed of elected officials), if they can get real political power they can enact serious change. The scales could be balanced between mages and the mundane, though deposing the magisters might not be realistic, non-mages could get access to more authoritative positions. Abolishing slavery would take more work, but it could be done. If Dorian's movement gains traction then the abuses of masters could be curtailed a great deal.

I don't think I'll be taking any further part in this discussion. We clearly have very different priorities. I believe a government/system that believes it can give people all the happiness they need is fundamentally dangerous and harmful, so there will be no agreement and these types of back and forth consume a lot of time I can't afford at the moment.