54 réponses à ce sujet

[hellbiter88]

The necro is an excellent class vs the base opponents, she is instantly useful with her opening two abilities that being horror and winters grasp.  However she is a joke vs the newer opponents, some of which are immune to both fear and cold making her garbage if you want to run any way other than walking bomb.

 

Does the frost armour of the despair staff sync up will with her other abilities?

 

WB + WG and virulence passive is still massively effective against both darkspawn and Qunari. I don't know about horror because I never use it. SM is still tons of fun to use; nothing like having a giant Sarebaas pet.

 

I don't know if Ice armor stacks with Heart of Despair but I doubt it.

[JohnnyQPublic]

If you're using Heart of Despair, your ice coat disappears if you get knocked unconscious and it never re-appears for the remainder of the match.  I don't know if it is just a visual glitch, or if the damage resistance is also permanently gone. 

 

As far as the Ice Armor passive, I haven't tested it but it seems to vanish when a teammate enters the AoE of the persistent ice spell giving me the ice armor (e.g. walking into the blizzard, or walking across the ice mine).

[hellbiter88]

If you're using Heart of Despair, your ice coat disappears if you get knocked unconscious and it never re-appears for the remainder of the match.  I don't know if it is just a visual glitch, or if the damage resistance is also permanently gone. 

 

As far as the Ice Armor passive, I haven't tested it but it seems to vanish when a teammate enters the AoE of the persistent ice spell giving me the ice armor (e.g. walking into the blizzard, or walking across the ice mine).

 

I believe it's just visual but I could be wrong

[Beerfish]

WB + WG and virulence passive is still massively effective against both darkspawn and Qunari. I don't know about horror because I never use it. SM is still tons of fun to use; nothing like having a giant Sarebaas pet.

 

I don't know if Ice armor stacks with Heart of Despair but I doubt it.

WB yes Winters grasp only vs the ones not totally immune to it.  My point was that there are at least two opponents that are immune to both fear and cold.  Play them with a lower level necro or god forbid a 1st level one and you better have good team mates because you will have to beat them by pew pew pew of your staff.

[ReadingRambo220]

I like WG,WB,FS and FC build.
Horror is OK,but those targetable spells suck with gamepad,even if I set up it on the fastest setting.

So I'm not the only one! I hate targeting spells with my game pad. Its fine in SP where it pauses. This is the only PC game I've ever played where I use a game pad because the controls on mouse/KB suck

[ThatBruhYouDK]

So I'm not the only one! I hate targeting spells with my game pad. Its fine in SP where it pauses. This is the only PC game I've ever played where I use a game pad because the controls on mouse/KB suck

I love my controls on KB/M. I moved them over to the arrow keys and num pad. Also have a 20 button mouse so it is really easy to control on that side of the KB

[lcneed]

So I'm not the only one! I hate targeting spells with my game pad. Its fine in SP where it pauses. This is the only PC game I've ever played where I use a game pad because the controls on mouse/KB suck

 

I love my controls on KB/M. I moved them over to the arrow keys and num pad. Also have a 20 button mouse so it is really easy to control on that side of the KB

 

What do you guys have against wasd?    Aren't those the moving keys for every game?   I mapped my mouse wheel click to "4".  So the abilities I used the most (like Dragon Rage, Elemental Bombs, Zither's Music Note, etc...) are mapped to "4".

[ThatBruhYouDK]

What do you guys have against wasd? Aren't those the moving keys for every game? I mapped my mouse wheel click to "4". So the abilities I used the most (like Dragon Rage, Elemental Bombs, Zither's Music Note, etc...) are mapped to "4".

I don't like the number bar lol. I like the pad more, nothing against wasd

[lcneed]

I don't like the number bar lol. I like the pad more, nothing against wasd

 

I guess that's one way to NOT accidentally hit the '~" key.  

[Yallegro]

You obviously suck at this game bro. People were using that build with 11 constitution and sub 50 cunning.

 

Soloing Perilous pre-armor buffs. Pre-walking bomb buff. Check this out if you want to be educated: Link

 

L2P issue.

 

 

Seriously outdated information

 

The dmg from a single Fade Cloak is the same as my damage from a single Shield Bash, no sunder.

 

Or a basic Mighty Blow with no knockdown buff

 

 

Being much harder to hit with and having less AoE than both (generally worse cooldown time too)

 

 

The dmg of Fade Step hitting one target is identical to the very first hit from 1 Immolate, which is also much easier to hit with

 

or an non-upgraded Payback Strike 

[Proto]

  

 

Nope, you don't get it at all...

 

Both frost step and fade cloak have short cooldowns...both provide invincibility frames...both take advantage of clean burn.

 

More often than not you are going to hit multiple enemies with both. 

 

L2P issue.

[nanotm]

well ever since the "fix" to fade cloak it hasn't worked right, not being able to detonate it and it not lasting longer make it nigh on useless for most people, worse if you have a barrier bot in party you no longer get the barrier if fade cloak is activated .....

[Drasca]

 is Fade Cloak (use it aggressively, every time you have it [learned the usefulness of that from Drasca wayyyyyyy back in the day]).

 

Be more aggressive!~ Be more aggressive! ... of course now a days its ooh-shiny. Greed is good.

 

Actually IM will trigger the IA proc if you don't move from it, but moving any step, including the abilities that force you forward like horror, will cause it to drop. That said,  you can still walk back onto it if need be as previously mentioned.

 

 

The necro is an excellent class vs the base opponents, she is instantly useful with her opening two abilities that being horror and winters grasp.  However she is a joke vs the newer opponents, some of which are immune to both fear and cold making her garbage if you want to run any way other than walking bomb.

 

They're either immune to cold or spirit damage, not both. Fade Cloak works fine blowing enemies up, so does the Horror upgrade dot.

 

The question you present is a good one though. WB, you look into it yet? I stopped investigating defenses thoroughly.

 

Necro remains lowest tier of the mages, but she's still interesting. The sad part is once her damage is jacked up, she's uber tier. She's nerfed so heavily because otherwise she'd be beyond OP.

[ReadingRambo220]

What do you guys have against wasd? Aren't those the moving keys for every game? I mapped my mouse wheel click to "4". So the abilities I used the most (like Dragon Rage, Elemental Bombs, Zither's Music Note, etc...) are mapped to "4".

I love wasd but after years of MMOs I'm so adapted to driving with the mouse, auto attacking with the mouse gives me a headache. Which is weird, because I don't have any problems with shooters. I don't know, it just feels really strange to me

[TheLeakestWink]

Alternatively if you find the new Heart of Pride Despair staff just use that in place of the ice armor passive--it applies the same, although more powerful buff, and works continuously without fading.

 

This brings up a question I've had for some time: The tooltip (and actual behavior of Ice Armor) make it seem as if Ice Armor reduces all damage by 50% (ie, not just physical damage). Heart of Despair clearly only reduces physical damage. Since they don't stack, I've found myself biased toward using Ice Armor so that I can equip Heart of Pride (instead of Despair) for the attack speed bonus (resulting in much shorter cooldown times due to Gathering Storm) or Kingfisher for the POTA to WB combo.

 

Of course, the entire purpose of Ice Armor or HoD is to equip the Belt of the Winter Pact and see how many times you can self-revive from the Fade in a single match (while not instantly dying if more than one enemy aggros you) 

[hellbiter88]

This brings up a question I've had for some time: The tooltip (and actual behavior of Ice Armor) make it seem as if Ice Armor reduces all damage by 50% (ie, not just physical damage). Heart of Despair clearly only reduces physical damage. Since they don't stack, I've found myself biased toward using Ice Armor so that I can equip Heart of Pride (instead of Despair) for the attack speed bonus (resulting in much shorter cooldown times due to Gathering Storm) or Kingfisher for the POTA to WB combo.

 

Of course, the entire purpose of Ice Armor or HoD is to equip the Belt of the Winter Pact and see how many times you can self-revive from the Fade in a single match (while not instantly dying if more than one enemy aggros you) 

 

I am pretty sure it reduces all damage: i.e., melee, arrows, and magic. Is it possible the numbers you're observing are because you have lower con than willpower or cunning? Con will impact melee damage resistance on all your characters.

[ottffsse]

Hakkon is still best staff for her as it crits on dots.

 

Fade step is good for mobility and speed on anything lower then nm where kill speed and moving forward should be really rapid. (Actually it is rapid on nm too now but unless you have over 100+ wil promotes fade step/ cloak will be doing more harm than good and even than energy barrage is better as it can be stacked for either double walking bomb + eb or double eb+ 1 wb depending what you want).

 

Superb amulet of accord helps with threat management. Just play at a distance and nuke stuff. Move away if things get close (they should be frozen by the ice mine giving you extra time to reposition, and with accord will mostly ignore you unless you attack them in their face, or you are at the end of a map area alone and units like archers start to focus on YOU instead of the other players). So yes play at a distance but not so far from the group that you are so isolated that enemies start to focus on you instead of first going for the others (due to amulet of accord). 

 

I find on nm + : wb - wg - im - eb to be pretty good. If you are more promotes like say 120+ in each stat sure drop im/ armour as death syphon and kill speed should sustain you at that point. For something like horror with upgrade (ever since dots began to crit it is vastly better than fade cloak). Anything lower than nightmare wb - wg - fs - skill of choice (my would be eb but by the time I get it I already move on to nm with her, so probably the starting horror spell)

 

Still problematic vs qunari as other mentioned because of enemy resistances as you can get in serious trouble if several stalkers decide to focus on you. So a distance eb/wb/wg build is still safer especially with accord amulet then one where you have to be in the face of the enemy with fc/fs. 

[ReadingRambo220]

Hakkon is still best staff for her as it crits on dots.

Fade step is good for mobility and speed on anything lower then nm where kill speed and moving forward should be really rapid. (Actually it is rapid on nm too now but unless you have over 100+ wil promotes fade step/ cloak will be doing more harm than good and even than energy barrage is better as it can be stacked for either double walking bomb + eb or double eb+ 1 wb depending what you want).

Superb amulet of accord helps with threat management. Just play at a distance and nuke stuff. Move away if things get close (they should be frozen by the ice mine giving you extra time to reposition, and with accord will mostly ignore you unless you attack them in their face, or you are at the end of a map area alone and units like archers start to focus on YOU instead of the other players). So yes play at a distance but not so far from the group that you are so isolated that enemies start to focus on you instead of first going for the others (due to amulet of accord).

I find on nm + : wb - wg - im - eb to be pretty good. If you are more promotes like say 120+ in each stat sure drop im/ armour as death syphon and kill speed should sustain you at that point. For something like horror with upgrade (ever since dots began to crit it is vastly better than fade cloak). Anything lower than nightmare wb - wg - fs - skill of choice (my would be eb but by the time I get it I already move on to nm with her, so probably the starting horror spell)

Still problematic vs qunari as other mentioned because of enemy resistances as you can get in serious trouble if several stalkers decide to focus on you. So a distance eb/wb/wg build is still safer especially with accord amulet then one where you have to be in the face of the enemy with fc/fs.

Interesting! I didn't realize the accord amulet was that helpful. I have the enhanced one (not superb) but I'll try it out with her. I'm currently using the amulet of renewal with her.

[ottffsse]

suberb amuet of accord sort of works that as long as that there are other players around and attacking stuff like they should spawning enemies will prioritize attacking them first as long as you are not blocking their paths to the other players/ attacking the enemies in their face that they notice you. if you are alone though and the rest of the players are somewhere in another area of the map and you have lstuff spawn near you of course  they will still go after you. but in general my experience with the superb version that it does what is stated and it drops aggro generation enough to make an impact.

 

renewal is great too, but with death siphon and use of certain mechanics like rapid ability casting of wb/ wg or eb I am more limited on her with cooldown time than mana. 

[Yallegro]

Hakkon is still best staff for her as it crits on dots.

 

Fade step is good for mobility and speed on anything lower then nm where kill speed and moving forward should be really rapid. (Actually it is rapid on nm too now but unless you have over 100+ wil promotes fade step/ cloak will be doing more harm than good and even than energy barrage is better as it can be stacked for either double walking bomb + eb or double eb+ 1 wb depending what you want).

 

Superb amulet of accord helps with threat management. Just play at a distance and nuke stuff. Move away if things get close (they should be frozen by the ice mine giving you extra time to reposition, and with accord will mostly ignore you unless you attack them in their face, or you are at the end of a map area alone and units like archers start to focus on YOU instead of the other players). So yes play at a distance but not so far from the group that you are so isolated that enemies start to focus on you instead of first going for the others (due to amulet of accord). 

 

I find on nm + : wb - wg - im - eb to be pretty good. If you are more promotes like say 120+ in each stat sure drop im/ armour as death syphon and kill speed should sustain you at that point. For something like horror with upgrade (ever since dots began to crit it is vastly better than fade cloak). Anything lower than nightmare wb - wg - fs - skill of choice (my would be eb but by the time I get it I already move on to nm with her, so probably the starting horror spell)

 

Still problematic vs qunari as other mentioned because of enemy resistances as you can get in serious trouble if several stalkers decide to focus on you. So a distance eb/wb/wg build is still safer especially with accord amulet then one where you have to be in the face of the enemy with fc/fs. 

 

So does all dot crit now or are there exceptions?

[ottffsse]

On necromancer in mp dots on horror and wb crit, but I think it depends on the first hit if you land a crit or not. On other classes and sp they do not.

[TheLeakestWink]

I am pretty sure it reduces all damage: i.e., melee, arrows, and magic. Is it possible the numbers you're observing are because you have lower con than willpower or cunning? Con will impact melee damage resistance on all your characters.

 

Re-reading my post, I don't think I clarified myself well 

 

Because Ice Armor reduces all damage (vis-a-vis Heart of Despair, which only reduces Physical Damage), isn't it better to use Ice Armor + (persistent ice spell of choice)? That's been my conclusion by comparing both approaches, but I haven't done eiher extensive or systematic comparisons, so I could be wrong about the mechanics.

[hellbiter88]

Re-reading my post, I don't think I clarified myself well 

 

Because Ice Armor reduces all damage (vis-a-vis Heart of Despair, which only reduces Physical Damage), isn't it better to use Ice Armor + (persistent ice spell of choice)? That's been my conclusion by comparing both approaches, but I haven't done eiher extensive or systematic comparisons, so I could be wrong about the mechanics.

 

The ice armor passive is buggy at best. I greatly prefer heart of despair, myself. And after having coined a sarebaas build around heart of despair and other damage resistant passives, I'm very confident that that staff reduces ALL damage, not just physical.

 

If it's only protecting you against physical damage then I wonder if your promotions or equipped gear have anything to do with the equation. For example, if you had really high con and low willpower, the staff would look like it protects against physical damage, but you would still take more damage from magic (willpower protects against magic). Also note that spirit damage bypasses typical resistances, and I'm unsure if this is true of the staff.

 

To your question though: Ice armor can be used effectively with pretty much all ice spells except ice mine. Ice mine is a toss up, because the ability seems to bug out even if you leave the area and come back. Winter's grasp, blizzard, and other chilling effects seem to trigger ice armor reliably. But the benefit of heart of despair is that it never wears off--even after death (it's a visual bug that causes your armor to disappear but the buffs are still there).

 

So, in short, I prefer Heart of Despair because it's more reliable, but ice armor can be made to work by taking abilities other than ice mine.

[TheLeakestWink]

The ice armor passive is buggy at best. I greatly prefer heart of despair, myself. And after having coined a sarebaas build around heart of despair and other damage resistant passives, I'm very confident that that staff reduces ALL damage, not just physical.

 

I mostly agree with you, except that Heart of Despair pretty clearly reduces only physical damage. Most damage is physical, so it may seem to be reducing all damage, but try walking over a glyph with the HoD and a Pact belt equipped and see how that goes 

 

As to your question regarding stats, my cunning is a good ways ahead of my con, but my con is high enough that I'm fine in NM with most of my characters. But my goal is to bring some mages (Necro, Ele) into NM with a Pact belt equipped, which is when my question about Ice Armor vs HoD becomes relevant. Also, I find Ice Mine to be pretty reliable for Ice Armor purposes. The trick is not to cast it underneath yourself, which works well with the targeting mechanic anyway, since it starts beneath an enemy rather than beneath your character.

[hellbiter88]

I mostly agree with you, except that Heart of Despair pretty clearly reduces only physical damage. Most damage is physical, so it may seem to be reducing all damage, but try walking over a glyph with the HoD and a Pact belt equipped and see how that goes 

 

As to your question regarding stats, my cunning is a good ways ahead of my con, but my con is high enough that I'm fine in NM with most of my characters. But my goal is to bring some mages (Necro, Ele) into NM with a Pact belt equipped, which is when my question about Ice Armor vs HoD becomes relevant. Also, I find Ice Mine to be pretty reliable for Ice Armor purposes. The trick is not to cast it underneath yourself, which works well with the targeting mechanic anyway, since it starts beneath an enemy rather than beneath your character.

 

Well if you can make IA reliable then go for it. Honestly, I'd just take both--best to double up where you can. But if you want a staff with more raw power like hakkon or something, then IA will work just fine. I would keep winter's grasp and/or frost step in your arsenal as well though, since the chilling effects (and freeze in WG's case) will trigger IA as well.