56 réponses à ce sujet

[vbibbi]

I completed it 19 times and am working on another one.  I think the numbers are not correct.  Every person I know who has played it loved it so much that they played it multiple times.

https://en.wikipedia...e_determination

[robertthebard]

It has been intimated that he/she is an extremely powerful individual, a force of nature (Wynne in Asunder).
 
One of the lies of Solas/Fen'Harel tells the inquisitor is that elven immortality isn't due to magic, but in Trespasser we learn that the creation of the Veil weakened magic and the elves began to age.
 
If Fen'Harel succeeds in tearing down the veil, magic will become stronger and the extremely powerful warden mage HoF could become as powerful as the Evanuris or more so because they are already extremely powerful before the veil falls.
 
Opinions??

Let's see, if we're going to use Asunder for the basis of your theory, then the HoF wasn't a mage at all. She was a Dalish rogue, emphasis on "was", since she died to the US. Once again, a theory that requires us to ignore established lore in order to be relevant. Here's a hint, theorycrafters: If you have to change the lore we have available, your theory can't be right.

[sylvanaerie]

They weren't: they claimed to be, and had enough armed loyal lackeys to force everyone else to play along... Had they been as divine as they pretended, I seriously doubt that a pointy-eared Robespierre would have succeeded in demolishing their civilization by mistake

 

He said "akin to" not "were".  Meaning they were powerful, far more powerful than the rank and file elves they enslaved who could all do magic in the elder times.  And they had centuries to perfect that power.  HoF has lived maybe 3 decades so far and only about 10-20 more years depending on how fast the taint spreads since it varies from warden to warden.  Duncan had been a warden only 20 years before he could feel his Calling coming on him.

 

HoF is not even close to that power level, and lowering the Veil isn't going to suddenly change them into god-powerful.

[Nixou]

He said "akin to" not "were".  Meaning they were powerful, far more powerful than the rank and file elves they enslaved who could all do magic in the elder times.  And they had centuries to perfect that power.

 

 

Which was a point I already made:

 

The Evanuris' (Evanurises? Is there a plural form for the term) specificity being that they were immortal, which gave them time to increase their mastery of magic to civilization-shaping levels but more importantly allowed their rule to go from "leadership by victorious generals" to "rule of decadent god-kings" without going through the dynastic phase.

[kimgoold]

All good points, thanks for sharing. Would love to see a dwarf legionnaire take Solas down if I'm being totally honest (perhaps Harding is one?)

A side note my HoF learnt shape changing from Morrigan and could in time learn to change into a dragon as they look for a cure to the taint/calling.

Will elves regain immortality if Solas destroys veil, and would this lead to future Elven Mages increasing in ability as they age to the point of the Evanuris?

Would the ancient elves we assume Solas knows even share the knowledge with shems they don't even see as people little own their own descendants.

[Incantrix]

All good points, thanks for sharing. Would love to see a dwarf legionnaire take Solas down if I'm being totally honest (perhaps Harding is one?)

A side note my HoF learnt shape changing from Morrigan and could in time learn to change into a dragon as they look for a cure to the taint/calling.

Will elves regain immortality if Solas destroys veil, and would this lead to future Elven Mages increasing in ability as they age to the point of the Evanuris?

Would the ancient elves we assume Solas knows even share the knowledge with shems they don't even see as people little own their own descendants.

 

Scout harding is just a surface dwarf girl from the hinterlands...who just so happened to know how to fight. Nothing special about her and she doesn't even like anything dwarven related. Neither does Varric. 

[Dai Grepher]

The mage Warden, mage Hawke, mage Inquisitor, already completed the first steps toward Evanuris status: they all were instrumental in winning wars they fought at the forefront (Blight, Qunari invasion, War against Corypheus), and they all achieved Elder statesman status (Arl(esa) of Amaranthine, Champion of Kirkwall, leader of the Inquisition), the only difference being that since they are mortals, none has the time to go through the long process of "ascending" to Godhood through centuries of unbroken rule.

 

Power of Blood likely increases a Warden's lifespan, like Avernus'. Also, I think "Evanuris" is both the singular and the plural. If not, then I would guess that "Evanuri" is plural.

 

But even Avernus' lifespan doesn't compare to the Evanuris. So instead I would consider Champion's of the Just, and how the Herald went through a roughly 10 minute or longer quest all in a tiny fraction of a second, and gained power while doing so. This might be the Hero's way to gain centuries of training in just a few minutes in the real world.

 

This concept reminded me of an anime/manga called Bleach, where the fighter could communicate with the soul of his sword, and when he did he went into the sword's "world" and trained. When he awoke a moment later he was multiple times more powerful and skilled. I think something like this could be done with Vigilance.

[Dai Grepher]

Can the HoF turn into a dragon? No? Well, that's what Flemeth can do, and she just holds a fragment of Mythal's soul.

In a time when magic was as natural as breathing, the Evanuris were akin to gods.

 

If he romanced Morrigan, then perhaps she will teach him as well as Kieran.
 

[Dai Grepher]

No infusion of magic is ever going to equalize the disparity in power.  And that assumes that the HoF would change all that much, or change in a positive fashion, once the Veil came down.  It is entirely possible that they are already at their upper limit, and all that extra power floating around is of minimal use to them.  It is also entirely possible that they die along with everyone else, or that the sudden change from Veil to no-Veil drives modern mages (and everyone else) insane from trying to process the new reality.

 

The Hero won't break under that pressure though. Most Heroes have been through the Fade twice, if not three times.

 

As for combating the Evanuris' magic, Andruil went mad from being exposed to the Void. Perhaps the taint will have a similar effect on the other Evanuris.
 

[Dai Grepher]

All good points, thanks for sharing. Would love to see a dwarf legionnaire take Solas down if I'm being totally honest (perhaps Harding is one?)

A side note my HoF learnt shape changing from Morrigan and could in time learn to change into a dragon as they look for a cure to the taint/calling.

Will elves regain immortality if Solas destroys veil, and would this lead to future Elven Mages increasing in ability as they age to the point of the Evanuris?

Would the ancient elves we assume Solas knows even share the knowledge with shems they don't even see as people little own their own descendants.

 

Harding was born and raised in Redcliffe. Sigrun can be a LS though, if she's still alive... er... "dead", that is.

 

True, if he's a mage.

 

My impression was that they will regain everything they lost, and Solas will become the utopia's watchdog in case any malicious elves arise within the population.
 

They will if they want to survive his wrath. I would think the old gods would pose a stronger threat to him though.

[The Baconer]

Actually, imo a Rift mage Inquis before his/her hand was cut was probably the most powerful mage in thedas (barring Solas). There's extreme power in being able to pull raw magic from the fade and since the Inquis was the only mortal mage capable of opening rifts to allow such magic,  

he was unique. Plus I'm very sure rift magic was a common thing back in the Evanuris days when the veil didn't exist.

 

Reading this, the Rift Mage description, and the codex...

 

I still don't know what exactly this means, beyond using fancier words to describe what mages already do by default, if not aggrandized. Surplus energy spilling out of the Fade from the Breach or Tears is absorbed and... used to cast spells that already exist? 

[Dai Grepher]

Reading this, the Rift Mage description, and the codex...

 

I still don't know what exactly this means, beyond using fancier words to describe what mages already do by default, if not aggrandized. Surplus energy spilling out of the Fade from the Breach or Tears is absorbed and... used to cast spells that already exist? 

 

I think it's a difference between slurping a few drops through a straw vs. chugging a liter in one breath without stopping. Or something like that. Where common mages have to coax energy from the Fade, a Rift Mage has to exert energy against it in order to redirect it into a powerful spell. I would think Rift Magic is also different from normal spells.
 

[The Baconer]

I think it's a difference between slurping a few drops through a straw vs. chugging a liter in one breath without stopping. Or something like that. Where common mages have to coax energy from the Fade, a Rift Mage has to exert energy against it in order to redirect it into a powerful spell. I would think Rift Magic is also different from normal spells.

 

It really comes down to "show, don't tell". The power and uniqueness is all implied, but in practice it was just a bucket of orphaned spells from the previous games. 

[Almostfaceman]

re: Almostfaceman

 

I didn't say the HoF was or is an Evanuris but could be considered one after the veil falls due to their magical ability being increased by increased magic afterwards.  As the Evanuris were exceptionally powerful Mages. And I do think the side effects of the loss of magic could have been an unforeseen side effect, Solas even hints as much in Trespasser, but I really think he does lie a lot.

 

"The Evanuris" is a historical description. It applies to a certain set of ancient elven mages who set themselves up as gods over the ancient elves. It's improper to use it to describe any and all potential powerful elven mages. 

 

Of course he lies a lot, that doesn't mean he lies about everything. Like I've shown, there are reasons to believe he was telling the truth about the state of the ancient elves and their natural state with magic/The Fade. 

[Dai Grepher]

It really comes down to "show, don't tell". The power and uniqueness is all implied, but in practice it was just a bucket of orphaned spells from the previous games. 

 

They were repetitive in effect, but different in origin. Instead of forming a stone fist from the ground, you form it from the Fade. Instead of your own telekinetic energy, you use energy from the Fade. Same with Pull of the Abyss. And the Firestorm spell is new, I think.
 

[Ariella]

They weren't: they claimed to be, and had enough armed loyal lackeys to force everyone else to play along... Had they been as divine as they pretended, I seriously doubt that a pointy-eared Robespierre would have succeeded in demolishing their civilization by mistake

God does not mean lacking in flaws, especially when presented in these terms. Any number of the old pagan gods were not presented as being perfect, and in fact where very human.

And akin means like, not are. And they were akin to gods. Consider the pharaohs of Egypt or any number of other god-kings in ancient history. They were much the same, but they were perceived as gods because of that very power: they had followers who believed.

[Aren]

I already defeated Mythal and Urthemiel without help (always a 1 vs 1),and if the others will return from the fade,my super king archer-warrior will know on how to deal with them..an arrow from the heaven

Spoiler

[Aren]

Can the HoF turn into a dragon? No? Well, that's what Flemeth can do, and she just holds a fragment of Mythal's soul.

In a time when magic was as natural as breathing, the Evanuris were akin to gods.

and? My Hof Slaughtered her without problems just as he  buried the old god forever with the Loghain's soul final attack.

My Inquisitor killed so many dragons that he lost count,if anything i would say that dragons are pretty much overrated.

those who can die are not gods,the old gods aren't gods because they can die,just like mythal and every other Evanuris.

[Dai Grepher]

 

and? My Hof Slaughtered her without problems just as he  buried the old god forever with the Loghain's soul final attack.

My Inquisitor killed so many dragons that he lost count,if anything i would say that dragons are pretty much overrated.

those who can die are not gods,the old gods aren't gods because they can die,just like mythal and every other Evanuris.

 

 

That was just Mythal's vassal though. The true Mythal is much more powerful.

[ModernAcademic]

I'm still trying to figure out why you couldn't be a legit Dalish Mage in DA:O... Makes no real sense to me...

 

Because that would make you apprentice to the Keeper and Merrill already occupied that position in your clan.

 

It's a stupid reason if you think about it, but the only one I can think of.

[Akiza]

If he romanced Morrigan, then perhaps she will teach him as well as Kieran.
 

The shape shifting ability is pure garbage both for gameplay and lore history,a mage need to use energy and will to become something that it is not in the nature of his/her body,and so they will always be more weak compared to the original animal of whom they take the form.

The high dragon of the temple in DAO was stronger than Flemeth,a corrupted spider is stronger than Morrigan's spider form,Corypheus dragon is by far stronger than Morrigan's dragon form,simply because these are their original form and they do not lose power to maintain and sustain the magic.

let us not forget that with the templars ability of the purify area ,the shapeshifter return to the original form.so they are pretty much a no match for expert templars hunters.

Flemeth never used this ability against templars she merely use her dragon form to travel fast,since her others ability are much stronger as she demonstrate in DAI in both the altar (she use a teleport) and the fade(she absorb a dragon soul).

shapeshifters are the weakest class in DAO as far as i'm concerned,i also do not like the bard spec but at least it can be used to improve the group.

[Ariella]

The shape shifting ability is pure garbage both for gameplay and lore history,a mage need to use energy and will to become something that it is not in the nature of his/her body,and so they will always be more weak compared to the original animal of whom they take the form.
The high dragon of the temple in DAO was stronger than Flemeth

Just to point out that Flemeth had already sent a piece of herself off to the Free Marches, so we don't know how truly 'powerful' Flemeth's dragon form is from one encounter where she was literally not completely herself.

[Dai Grepher]

 

The shape shifting ability is pure garbage both for gameplay and lore history,a mage need to use energy and will to become something that it is not in the nature of his/her body,and so they will always be more weak compared to the original animal of whom they take the form.

The high dragon of the temple in DAO was stronger than Flemeth,a corrupted spider is stronger than Morrigan's spider form,Corypheus dragon is by far stronger than Morrigan's dragon form,simply because these are their original form and they do not lose power to maintain and sustain the magic.

let us not forget that with the templars ability of the purify area ,the shapeshifter return to the original form.so they are pretty much a no match for expert templars hunters.

Flemeth never used this ability against templars she merely use her dragon form to travel fast,since her others ability are much stronger as she demonstrate in DAI in both the altar (she use a teleport) and the fade(she absorb a dragon soul).

shapeshifters are the weakest class in DAO as far as i'm concerned,i also do not like the bard spec but at least it can be used to improve the group.

 

 

Shapeshifter does seem like more of a camouflage/evasion/travel mechanism, but the combat value of Shapeshifter is clear. Is the new form stronger than the base form? That's all there is to it. Yes, theoretically the Shapeshifter dragon isn't as strong as the original, but is the Shapeshifter stronger as a dragon than as a mage?

 

Plus, the way to use Shapeshifter is to exhaust your mana first, and then make the change. Only some forms like the Stinging Swarm require mana to sustain.

 

As for Morrigan's strength, I'd say she was on par with the Guardian dragon. I'm not sure, but I think the battle with the Red Lyrium Dragon goes pretty much the same regardless. Or maybe the Guardian flies off, while Morrigan changes back and collapses, don't remember. But even in that case I'd say Morrigan did well for her first time.

 

The real question is if the dragon form would be stronger than Solas' magic. As far the templar abilities, I don't think it works on the dragon form. Though this may have merely been a gameplay mechanic.

[Kakistos_]

No. Beyond the fact that they were Dreamers, which the Hof Mage is not, the Evanuris are unique beyond our current understanding. Mythal was slain yet her essence or soul lived on for a millennia. So far as we know, no other Ancient Elvhen endures. Flemeth hints at Mythal, and possibly the other Evanuris, being something "more". Fen'harel also states: "The first of my people do not die so easily.", hinting that the Evanuris are different compared to other Elvhen in more than that they were powerful Mages and even powerful Dreamers.

[straykat]

Elven mage HoF? Isn't that a mod?

 

Or am I missing something?

 

 

I liked my Dalish Warden. I kind of play around with the symbolism, but never thought of any of this. I thought at best he related to Falon'Din and Dirthammen with Tamlen's story. Alternatively, they could be a Dalish who symbolically kills their heritage by attacking Mythal/Flemeth and converting to Andrastian. Lots of cool possiibiities, but never considering anything like the OP.

 

Also the name Mahariel was named after the angel guardian of heaven. Which is similar to Falon'Din's role. Or the role of a Halla.

 

While Tabris is named after the Angel of Free Will. And they get Fen'Harel's fang as a family item. So I see them with more potential tricker personality traits.