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A clean cut with southern Thedas: No Inquisitor protagonist in DA4!


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#1
Ieldra

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People have listed a lot of reasons why they want the Inquisitor to be the protagonist in the next DA game. Here, I'm going to list the reasons why I do NOT want that. Basically, it comes down to this: the Inquisitor carries too much ballast around to work for me as a new protagonist. Here is why:
 
(1) A clean cut with Southern Thedas
I'm sick of southern Thedas and its problems. I'm sick of the Circles, the Orlesian Chantry, mages vs. templars and Orlesian Andrastianism. I was looking forward to playing in Tevinter, playing a native Tevinter citizen, encountering new people from there and immersing myself into a new culture. I want to leave southern Thedas behind as far as possible, and playing as the Ex-Inquisitor would be like a heavy chain binding me to everything I want to leave behind,
 
(2) Trespasser's ending makes for a lot of ballast I don't want.
I was happy after the ending of the game, before Trespasser. I like my Inquisitors, but I was quite happy to leave them behind as leaders of the Inquisition. It was the first ending of a Bioware game that I found unreservedly satisfying since DAO. Then came Trespasser and ruined everything, and now I'm considerably less happy. I'm quite prepared to start as a character with a low power level in DA4, but for an old protagonist to be hammered down, taking away everything they have gained and more, in order to make them feasible, that would be like a slap in the face by the writers. I do not like to be slapped in the face, and I'd rather not start the next DA game being angry. I'd rather start with the kind of pleasant anticipation I had with DAI. Playing the Ex-Inquisitor would make that impossible.
 
(3) Trespasser has weakened my connection to the Inquisitor
People have said Trespasser made the Inquisitor more relatable. This term may be important to a story you watch and read, but less to a roleplaying game. I guess some people experience Bioware's games as more of stories they watch than shape, and perhaps with some justification. I'm a roleplayer, however. I do not "relate" to my character, I automatically have a much closer connection to them than that, and I'm automatically invested in them as long as the writers don't put words into their mouths I would never have them say, or make them do things I'd never make them do. That almost never happened in DAI, and so my Inquisitor has been, right from the start, one of three Bioware protagonists I could connect to with no problem at all (the others are the Bhaalspawn and the Warden). Bioware's writers are the GM to me.
Now imagine if in a tabletop RPG campaign, your GM did to your character what was done to the Inquisitor with no input at all from you. I don't know about others, but in that situation, I consider it very likely I'd say "Not with me, I'll make a new character". In that way, Trespasser made the Inquisitor less my character - and thus less "relatable" as the protagonist of a game - than she had been before, and it would be an uphill battle to remake the connection. Again, I'd rather start the game without that kind of ballast.
 
So...I do NOT want the Ex-Inquisitor to be DA4's protagonist. I'm not saything such a setup couldn't be a success, but I rather suspect that Bioware's writers won't do any of the things that would make it palatable to me.

 

Edit:

Bhryaen has made a few additional points in this post. They're mostly technical considerations but not less important because of it. I lef them out because they weren't my primary concern.

 

Edit2:

For a more constructive approach, here's what I want instead (thanks to CardButton for asking the relevant questions):

 

(1) I want to play a Tevinter native and gain an inside perspective of this fascinating culture (fascinating in spite of the bad stuff, not because of it).

 

(2) I want a change of theme. There's been all too much about faith and religion and magic as a problem. I want to immerse myself into a culture that appreciates the potential of magic rather than only seeing the downsides, where the birth of a mageborn child to a non-mageborn family is a cause for celebration, not despair, where the dominant religious denomination isn't bound up with reactionary messages about "powers humans shouldn't aspire to", but where I can play a person who fights the abuses of the powerful while also embodying the idea that we may legitimately aspire to powers beyond the human norm. 

 

(3) I want to see Calpernia again, and I'd like to be able to ally with her in her attempts to free the slaves and reform Tevinter into "a crafter of wonders, a beacon for all", rather than the Evil Empire of slavery and human sacrifice it is now. I want to play a character who wants to do that because it's their home and they want it to be a good one - a little bit of down-to-earth motivation to supplement the high-and-mighty saving-the-world one can only benefit the story.

 

(4) And....I just got this idea, but it refuses to go away....I want Solas and his plans to be a threat that makes the qunari and Tevinter forget their rivalry for a while, because if his plans succeed. it will destroy both sides. That way, btw, the plot could focus on Solas' plans without making it appear that an important conflict is swept under the rug.

 

(5) In general, I like new characters in DA because they let me adopt new perspectives. However different my Wardens and Inquisitors were, they were all bound up in their roles. The Inquisitor specifically carries a lot of memetic ballast around that ties them to DAI's themes. A new character would make it possible to dispense with such memetic ballast.


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#2
Donk

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People have listed a lot of reasons why they want the Inquisitor to be the protagonist in the next DA game. Here, I'm going to list the reasons why I do NOT want that. Basically, it comes down to this: the Inquisitor carries too much ballast around to work for me as a new protagonist. Here is why:

 

(1) A clean cut with Southern Thedas

I'm sick of southern Thedas and its problems. I'm sick of the Circles, the Orlesian Chantry, mages vs. templars and Orlesian Andrastianism. I was looking forward to playing in Tevinter, playing a native Tevinter citizen, encountering new people from there and immersing myself into a new culture. I want to leave that behind as far as possible, and playing as the Ex-Inquisitor would be like a heavy chain binding me to everything I want to leave behind,

 

(2) Trespasser's ending makes for a lot of ballast I don't want.

I was happy after the ending of the game, before Trespasser. I like my Inquisitors, but I was quite happy to leave them behind as leaders of the Inquisition. It was the first ending of a Bioware game that I found unreservedly satisfying since DAO. Then came Trespasser and ruined everything, and now I'm considerably less happy. I'm quite prepared to start as a character with a low power level in DA4, but for an old protagonist to be hammered down, taking away everything they have gained and more, in order to make them feasible, that would be like a slap in the face by the writers. I do not like to be slapped in the face, and I'd rather not start the next DA game being angry. I'd rather start with the kind of pleasant anticipation I had with DAI. Playing the Ex-Inquisitor would make that impossible.

 

(3) Trespasser has weakened my connection to the Inquisitor

People have said Trespasser made the Inquisitor more relatable. This term may be important to a story you watch and read, but less to a roleplaying game. I guess some people experience Bioware's games as more of stories they watch than shape, and perhaps with some justification. I'm a roleplayer, however. I do not "relate" to my character, I automatically have a much closer connection to them than that, and I'm automatically invested in them as long as the writers don't put words into their mouths I would never have them say, or make them do things I'd never make them do. That never happened in DAI, and so my Inquisitor has been, right from the start, one of three Bioware protagonists I could connect to with no problem at all (the others are the Bhaalspawn and the Warden). Bioware's writers are the GM to me.

Now imagine if in a tabletop RPG campaign, your GM did to your character what was done to the Inquisitor with no input at all from you. I don't know about others, but in that situation, I consider it very likely I'd say "Not with me, I'll make a new character". In that way, Trespasser made the Inquisitor less my character - and thus less "relatable" as the protagonist of a game - than she had been before, and it would be an uphill battle to remake the connection. Again, I'd rather start the game without that kind of ballast.

 

So...I do NOT want the Ex-Inquisitor to be DA4's protagonist. I'm not saything such a setup couldn't be a success, but I rather suspect that Bioware's writers won't do any of the things that would make it palatable to me.

 

After seeing much discussion of people wanting the Inquisitor to return as the protag.. I don't think it's likely so you probably don't have anything to worry about. Besides, didn't the devs already say that there will always be a fresh protagonist? :huh:

 

I think the reason Trespasser was created was to give the fans closure to the inquisitor's story and give us a little hint of what's coming next.. rather than what they did with the Warden. To me, it seems like they were resolving the problem instead of leaving another loose end.

 

While I did love my canon inquisitor (took many playthroughs to connect with one) there were many things.. such as the VA's lines being a little off.. and some of the actual dialogue.. that made me think, "Oh hell no, I don't want my character to say this crap!" and much of it made me cringe. The only time I've ever really been happy with it really, was in Mass Effect and DA2, and DAO was easy because you had a range of different responses even if the protag was silent.

 

Anyway, I'm with you on the "no more southern Thedas/Orlesian". Currently reading through Asunder, and the Masked Empire is next.. I'm already sick of it so I can imagine the next book is gonna be a hard slog. I want to explore and find out other parts of Thedas and playing a game set in Tevinter sounds like my cup of tea.


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#3
leaguer of one

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1. It's a given based the ending of trespasser.

 

2. Short story-you're crazy. Long story, with the story that came up there was no way you can keep that power as you are with Solas around. It's a good conclusion, a far better one, then the vanilla game, because it move the story and it give consequences to your actions.

 

3.What are you taking about? If it's about the arm, you lost it from the time you got the mark on it. The power from the anchor destroyed it. Also, one would think you would have a stronger bond with the character after nearly dying and everything Solas has done to said character and tells them.



#4
Ieldra

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Also, one would think you would have a stronger bond with the character after nearly dying and everything Solas has done to said character and tells them.

Unfortunately, my disaffection exists on the meta-level and it has no in-world outlet. My Inquisitor would be not so much mad at Solas as mad at the vagaries of a cruel fate that brought her to this point - or maybe at the Maker, but she doesn't believe in him. Solas threatens the world as we know it, but he isn't responsible for her losing her arm, the Anchor and most of her political power. So in terms of making things personal with regard to Solas' plans, Trespasser was a complete failure, because the motivation I can relate to most closely at the moment, on an emotional level, is rather more of a villain's: "**** the world, I'm going to take back what was mine". Well, if I could play *that* out, it might actually work, but Bioware's games don't facilitate it as a rule.

The only Inquisitor who would work, apart from that, is one who romanced Solas.

#5
leaguer of one

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Unfortunately, my disaffection exists on the meta-level and it has no in-world outlet. My Inquisitor would be not so much mad at Solas as mad at the vagaries of a cruel fate that brought her to this point - or maybe at the Maker, but she doesn't believe in him. Solas threatens the world as we know it, but he isn't responsible for her losing her arm, the Anchor and most of her political power. So in terms of making things personal, Trespasser was a complete failure.

Yes he is. Who plan in the first place brought the orb to Cory and by mistake had it fall in the quis lap? Solas.

None of the conflict with Cory would of ever happened if Solas did no give him the orb.

 

Think about it this way, his first plan to destroy the world failed so he used the quis to clean things up all with the notion of later betray the quis after it done. He created both sides of the conflict and betrayed them both to get back the orb.

 

He manipulated the quis from the time they were discovered with the mark and then betrayed them and was the start of the conflict with millions of deaths. That makes it personal.


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#6
Ieldra

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After seeing much discussion of people wanting the Inquisitor to return as the protag.. I don't think it's likely so you probably don't have anything to worry about. Besides, didn't the devs already say that there will always be a fresh protagonist?

They say a lot of things in a long day. Most things they say have been changed at one time or the other, so that's little reassurance.

I think the reason Trespasser was created was to give the fans closure to the inquisitor's story and give us a little hint of what's coming next.. rather than what they did with the Warden. To me, it seems like they were resolving the problem instead of leaving another loose end.

I'm not so sure. It's hard to imagine that they were unaware of the giant loose end they ended up creating. The Inquisitor has lost her arm and can say "my adventuring days are over". That has weight. On the other hand, she tells Solas she'll kill him or show him there's a better way. That has weight, too. What are we supposed to think?

While I did love my canon inquisitor (took many playthroughs to connect with one) there were many things.. such as the VA's lines being a little off.. and some of the actual dialogue.. that made me think, "Oh hell no, I don't want my character to say this crap!" and much of it made me cringe. The only time I've ever really been happy with it really, was in Mass Effect and DA2, and DAO was easy because you had a range of different responses even if the protag was silent.

DA2? Really? I like my sarcastic Hawke, but almost 25% of her lines come across as parody. ME1 (as opposed to the sequels) was ok. Some lines were slightly off in DAI, and there were one or two conversations without a fitting response, but that was non-critical. As opposed to...ugh....Shepard in ME2/3.

Anyway, I'm with you on the "no more southern Thedas/Orlesian". Currently reading through Asunder, and the Masked Empire is next.. I'm already sick of it so I can imagine the next book is gonna be a hard slog. I want to explore and find out other parts of Thedas and playing a game set in Tevinter sounds like my cup of tea.

I'd probably react the same way if I read it now. I do like the books, it's DAI that created most of my aversion. It was interesting to deal with the setup on a roleplaying basis, and I really like my Inquisitors, but I've had enough of the dominant themes of the story, and of the Chantry, and of mages vs. templars.

#7
leaguer of one

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Anyway, I'm with you on the "no more southern Thedas/Orlesian". Currently reading through Asunder, and the Masked Empire is next.. I'm already sick of it so I can imagine the next book is gonna be a hard slog. I want to explore and find out other parts of Thedas and playing a game set in Tevinter sounds like my cup of tea.

The next book, Last flight, is more northern thedas but still not in tevintor.



#8
Ieldra

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Yes he is. Who plan in the first place brought the orb to Cory and by mistake had it fall in the quis lap? Solas.
None of the conflict with Cory would of ever happened if Solas did no give him the orb.
 
Think about it this way, his first plan to destroy the world failed so he used the quis to clean things up all with the notion of later betray the quis after it done. He created both sides of the conflict and betrayed them both to get back the orb.
 
He manipulated the quis from the time they were discovered with the mark and then betrayed them and was the start of the conflict with millions of deaths. That makes it personal.

Things didn't come across to me that way. Solas made a mistake with the orb. The Inquisitor ended up with the anchor by accident. Solas then showed her to survive it and how to close rifts with it. I count that as a benefit. I don't see any betrayal, he just didn't tell her everything. He was unwittingly responsible for the conflict, but that's not personal. So as far as I see it, Solas may be responsible, but I see little reason to blame him for anything that happened to the Inquisitor. Well, unless he made the anchor act up in Trespasser, which is possible, I guess, but again it didn't come across that way.
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#9
leaguer of one

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Things didn't come across to me that way. Solas made a mistake with the orb. The Inquisitor ended up with the anchor by accident. Solas then showed her to survive it and how to close rifts with it. I count that as a benefit. I don't see any betrayal, he just didn't tell her everything. He was unwittingly responsible for the conflict, but that's not personal. So as far as I see it, Solas may be responsible, but I see little reason to blame him for anything that happened to the Inquisitor. Well, unless he made the anchor act up in Trespasser, which is possible, I guess, but again it didn't come across that way.

Solas used the quis. That's it. Solas even admit that he did not see the quis as a person, at least it stay that way if he doesn't like them. It still is his fault and the quis would not of never need to learn to survive with it and to close rift with it if it was not for Solas. That like saying the person responsible for cutting off your leg in error is not at fault because they help you learn how to walk with a peg leg.

 

He's at fault plain as that.


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#10
Gileadan

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I have no strong feelings either way. I'm not particularly invested in my Inquisitor, but I also don't give a frig about Tevinter. I'll just wait and see where it goes...once it gets greenlighted.

#11
Heimdall

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I've gotten attached to the idea of a dual protagonist with the Inquisitor being controllable for relatively brief non-combat sequences while the new PC takes center stage.

 

But if forced to choose, I don't want the inquisitor as protagonist again either.


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#12
DarkAmaranth1966

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Had I not played Treaspasser, I would have wanted more with my Adaar but, having played it, the ending does break the desire to play him in DA4. Sad ending IMHO and, not one I will replay soon. Could have been bette3r and left Quisi more desireable to headcannon. Great story but, not my style of ending. Going out with a bang would have been better.


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#13
Donk

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They say a lot of things in a long day. Most things they say have been changed at one time or the other, so that's little reassurance.

I'm not so sure. It's hard to imagine that they were unaware of the giant loose end they ended up creating. The Inquisitor has lost her arm and can say "my adventuring days are over". That has weight. On the other hand, she tells Solas she'll kill him or show him there's a better way. That has weight, too. What are we supposed to think?

DA2? Really? I like my sarcastic Hawke, but almost 25% of her lines come across as parody. ME1 (as opposed to the sequels) was ok. Some lines were slightly off in DAI, and there were one or two conversations without a fitting response, but that was non-critical. As opposed to...ugh....Shepard in ME2/3.

I'd probably react the same way if I read it now. I do like the books, it's DAI that created most of my aversion. It was interesting to deal with the setup on a roleplaying basis, and I really like my Inquisitors, but I've had enough of the dominant themes of the story, and of the Chantry, and of mages vs. templars.


That's a good point, actually.

I think the major loose end you speak of there was intentional, though. It keeps the fanbase wanting more.

From what I could gather at the end of Trespasser.. I'm wagering that the Inquisitor will have a role in the game. But not as a protagonist.. Rather an advisor or something along those lines.

You know, the part about sarcastic Hawke being a parody for 25 percent of the time.. Reminds me of my first impressions of the DA series. I thought it was literally parodying other fantasy franchises.. Especially when DA2 came along. All that ridiculous bloodsplatter.. The story arc of chasing some serial killer and all of sarcastic Hawke's reminded me of some b grade gory horror comedy movie.. Set in a fantasy universe. Not that I'm complaining, I do love that genre.. I didn't really take DA seriously until Inquisition. The tone seemed much more.. Serious, despite some funny moments here and there.

#14
vbibbi

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They say a lot of things in a long day. Most things they say have been changed at one time or the other, so that's little reassurance.

I'm not so sure. It's hard to imagine that they were unaware of the giant loose end they ended up creating. The Inquisitor has lost her arm and can say "my adventuring days are over". That has weight. On the other hand, she tells Solas she'll kill him or show him there's a better way. That has weight, too. What are we supposed to think?
 

Bioware is in a no win situation with the format of new protagonists each game, but they have made their bed and now have to lay in it if they don't want to look like huge hypocrites. Some fans will want a new protagonist each game as promised, while others will want more of a beloved former PC for "reasons." When Bioware tries to make a reasonable excuse why the former PC will not reappear in a leading role (cure for the calling, armless, anchor-less, depowered Inquisition) fans still find a way to tenaciously ignore in game evidence and developer comments and twist their personal headcanon into "rational" justification. Emotional attachment to a PC does not equate reasonable excuse to have them repeat their role as PC.

 

That's a good point, actually.

I think the major loose end you speak of there was intentional, though. It keeps the fanbase wanting more.

From what I could gather at the end of Trespasser.. I'm wagering that the Inquisitor will have a role in the game. But not as a protagonist.. Rather an advisor or something along those lines.

 

Yes, I think it's entirely reasonable to have the Inquisitor in the game in some capacity, since they've shown the ability to do so with Hawke in DAI. Granted, this will probably upset many fans as Hawke's appearance did, but Bioware wrote themselves into a corner. If they had killed off the Inquisitor fans would be upset like ME3. If they had the Inquisitor go explore uncharted lands, fans would say they're leaving unfinished business here and it's not in character for their PC. If the Inquisitor makes it clear they will be a shadow organization fighting Solas, fans think that's undeniable proof they will be the PC in DA4. There is no good answer for Bioware.


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#15
KaiserShep

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Silly I know, but I'd like to get a Vint-born PC just to get a sexy new accent. I'm tired of the standard issue Ferelden/Marcher thing everywhere. Bonus points if we can swear in the native tongue.
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#16
trevelyan_shep

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I just want to play a Tevinter so badly.


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#17
Ieldra

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That's a good point, actually.

I think the major loose end you speak of there was intentional, though. It keeps the fanbase wanting more.

From what I could gather at the end of Trespasser.. I'm wagering that the Inquisitor will have a role in the game. But not as a protagonist.. Rather an advisor or something along those lines.

That would be ok. As long as they don't let her make out-of-character comments like they did with Hawke. Something has gone wrong if you leave your character to die for out-of-world reasons.

 

@trevelyan_shep, KaiserShep: (eh. too many sheps here. go away!)

Yeah, me too. Swearing in Tevene would be cool.


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#18
loyallyroyal

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Bioware is in a no win situation with the format of new protagonists each game, but they have made their bed and now have to lay in it if they don't want to look like huge hypocrites. Some fans will want a new protagonist each game as promised, while others will want more of a beloved former PC for "reasons." When Bioware tries to make a reasonable excuse why the former PC will not reappear in a leading role (cure for the calling, armless, anchor-less, depowered Inquisition) fans still find a way to tenaciously ignore in game evidence and developer comments and twist their personal headcanon into "rational" justification. Emotional attachment to a PC does not equate reasonable excuse to have them repeat their role as PC.

 

Yes, I think it's entirely reasonable to have the Inquisitor in the game in some capacity, since they've shown the ability to do so with Hawke in DAI. Granted, this will probably upset many fans as Hawke's appearance did, but Bioware wrote themselves into a corner. If they had killed off the Inquisitor fans would be upset like ME3. If they had the Inquisitor go explore uncharted lands, fans would say they're leaving unfinished business here and it's not in character for their PC. If the Inquisitor makes it clear they will be a shadow organization fighting Solas, fans think that's undeniable proof they will be the PC in DA4. There is no good answer for Bioware.

 

It would have been super easy to avoid this, leave the Inquisition intact but reduced, and the Inquisitor clueless to the fact Solas plans to essentially end the world as they know it. End it with a "Lets go home to Skyhold", both arms but no anchor, and let the Inquisitor and company ride off into the sunset.  

 

Next game Tevinter, carry over Dorian, an appearance from Iron Bull, some codices of what the Inquisition and company are up to and there you have it.

 

Unfortunately if they really wanted to have a clean cut and a new protagonist ending Trespasser in Haven stabbing the map and declaring lets save/stop Solas was a terrible way to accomplish this.

 

How they handled Hawk's cameo didn't got over well. I would prefer to never see my Inquisitor again compared to that.



#19
Dai Grepher

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Yeah but are the North's problem really any different than the South's?

 

As for Trespasser's ballast, I think the Veil coming down would make any problem in the North look like child's play.

 

I want a new protag as well, but the Inquisitor as a returning character is a must.


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#20
Serza

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*raises finger*

 

This particular Elven Master Race member would like to express his partial allegiance to the Kingdom of Ferelden.


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#21
Cobra's_back

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Yes he is. Who plan in the first place brought the orb to Cory and by mistake had it fall in the quis lap? Solas.

None of the conflict with Cory would of ever happened if Solas did no give him the orb.

 

Think about it this way, his first plan to destroy the world failed so he used the quis to clean things up all with the notion of later betray the quis after it done. He created both sides of the conflict and betrayed them both to get back the orb.

 

He manipulated the quis from the time they were discovered with the mark and then betrayed them and was the start of the conflict with millions of deaths. That makes it personal.

Well stated. I'm surprised so many have not figured this out. Solas has been playing this game over and over for a long time. The trickster is a good name for him. He did it to the Gods and the forgotten ones before he did it to Cory and quis.


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#22
Ieldra

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I want a new protag as well, but the Inquisitor as a returning character is a must.

I'd say it's a given, not just a must. It would be extremely odd to make her part ways with Solas as she did in Trespasser and then not appear at all. She'll return and that's perfectly fine. Just not as the protagonist.


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#23
loyallyroyal

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I'd say it's a given, not just a must. It would be extremely odd to make her part ways with Solas as she did in Trespasser and then not appear at all. She'll return and that's perfectly fine. Just not as the protagonist.

 

In my opinion dragging an old PC back is the exact opposite of a clean cut. I would prefer to never see them again if the only option is to have Hawke 2.0 either let them clean up their mess or go with a clean break and move on.


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#24
Abyss108

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We're definitely seeing then again, the only question is in what role. The writers have confirmed they plan to have more closure between the protagonist and Solas.



#25
SinisterSquash

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(1) A clean cut with Southern Thedas
I'm sick of southern Thedas and its problems. I'm sick of the Circles, the Orlesian Chantry, mages vs. templars and Orlesian Andrastianism. I was looking forward to playing in Tevinter, playing a native Tevinter citizen, encountering new people from there and immersing myself into a new culture. I want to leave southern Thedas behind as far as possible, and playing as the Ex-Inquisitor would be like a heavy chain binding me to everything I want to leave behind,
 
 

Particularly this! I cannot stand Medieval-themed fantasy. I feel Tevinter can be a setting that somewhat alleviates my disgust. I hope it will have a setting like HBO Rome, so less on the Medieval Europe. I could enjoy that.

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