527 réponses à ce sujet

[vbibbi]

I found the Inquisitor to be a completely bland character that, even though I played him for 140 hours, never manged to really give a damn about. In fact, the entire game left me feeling oddly detached, despite my passion for the series. I never had that problem with the Warden, so I figure its either the lack of an Origin story, or the voice acting that leaves me cold. Either way, I definitely want a much more fleshed out protagonist than the Inquisitor, because DAI left me feeling profoundly "meh".

I've thought about it for a while, and for me, I think the main issue is that DAI's dialogue wheel mimicked DA2's wheel, leading us to believe the system would be similar. But DA2 had three very distinct responses, while DAI's three options did not vary so much in tone as the method of continuing the conversation. So top option was more affirming, middle option was more questioning, bottom option was direct and to the point (but not in a rude way).

 

So for me, the tone of the dialogue options remained the same in the dialogue wheel, which was jarring after my assumptions from playing DA2. I think instead, Bio gave us the emotion wheel, which is a closer analogue to DA2's system.

[vbibbi]

Idk about connection to the Inquisitor after finishing Trespasser. What it left me with is the strong vibe of Tallis from Solas. He leads them on, does whatever he wants, is literally untouchable and all the Inquisitor can do is flap their eyelashes, spout platitudes and look stupid.

True, and I don't feel a stronger connection to the Inky post-Trespasser than I did before, but that is the argument a lot of people are making.

 

An aside...if the Inquisitor vows to prove to Solas that people are worth saving, that not everything about the world is crap, wouldn't it be more objective to have different people show the good in the world rather than have the Inquisitor filter all proof to Solas? I would hope that Solas is smart enough to say "wait, so all of the good I'm seeing is coming from one source. That's rather skewed data"

[Ieldra]

Great. So you wrote your own story. I can do it too. But it flows best for me with a circle mage.

That *is* what we do in these games. As I see it, roleplaying is collaborative storytelling, not just passively experiencing a story. I agree that some backgrounds give themselves better to this story than others. I don't think I could play anything else but a human mage or an elf with as much identification.

[straykat]

That *is* what we do in these games. As I see it, roleplaying is collaborative storytelling, not just passively experiencing a story. I agree that some backgrounds give themselves better to this story than others. I don't think I could play anything else but a human mage or an elf with as much identification.

 

We're somewhat in agreement then.

 

Too bad I like how the warrior plays more than the mage though (liked the mage better in DA2).

[Darkly Tranquil]

Ironically, the Warden is the same as the Inquisitor in that regard, only with a few more options here and there. I certainly wouldn't mind if they took inspiration from that and added more character-defining options, but the voice-acting presents a limitation: with an unvoiced protagonist, you can always set the tone of a line in your mind, and so generic lines adapt themselves to your character as you read them and become specific.

As I see it "more characterization options in more conversations" is the only way to address this problem in a game with a voiced protagonist. Do anything else, and too many people won't find characterization options that suit them in too many situations, or even worse, unwanted characterization will result in many people just hating the protagonist - you recall that Hawke was hated by a significant subset of the playerbase, and still is.

I feel that the voice is a major hindrance (to me), particularly due to the neutral tone that they use for most lines. For me Hawke's voice worked much better because it had three distinct tones, which game Hawke more personality. By comparison, the Inquisitor often sounds like he is reading the evening news.

[Ryzaki]

By that same logic though, how can you expect them to do the Inquisitor any justice as a PC if you don't think they kept Shepard consistent? Shepard is a much more defined character than the Inquisitor is. If, in your mind, they couldn't keep Shepard straight, do you really think they can do that with the Inquisitor?

 

They can't but again I can control the reigns if their the PC.

 

If it's another Hawke scenario it's completely out of my hands.

 

?

Basically it's about being able to have at least some control over their character against not being able to, in case of them returning as NPC.

 

Yes.

[Heimdall]

I feel that the voice is a major hindrance (to me), particularly due to the neutral tone that they use for most lines. For me Hawke's voice worked much better because it had three distinct tones, which game Hawke more personality. By comparison, the Inquisitor often sounds like he is reading the evening news.

Hawke's voice only worked if you stuck to the same personality all the time.  Otherwise they sounded unstable and inconsistent.  That's why they opted for a more neutral tone.

 

I prefer it, I felt less restricted in how I could respond without sounding schizophrenic.

[Cobra's_back]

Hawke's voice only worked if you stuck to the same personality all the time.  Otherwise they sounded unstable and inconsistent.  That's why they opted for a more neutral tone.

 

I prefer it, I felt less restricted in how I could respond without sounding schizophrenic.

I noticed this. I had to play it snarky all the time and there were times it was just not appropriate. Like when the viscount's kid got murdered in the Chantry. Pretty bad timing for that one.

 

[AresKeith]

Hawke's voice only worked if you stuck to the same personality all the time.  Otherwise they sounded unstable and inconsistent.  That's why they opted for a more neutral tone.

 

I prefer it, I felt less restricted in how I could respond without sounding schizophrenic.

 

That's why I hated the dominant personality in DA2 and didn't have a problem with Hawke's personality in DAI
 

[Nefla]

I wish they'd stopped at more of a middle point between Hawke's extreme and often inappropriate emotions and the inquisitor's almost complete lack of emotions in most conversations.

[Regan_Cousland]

Hawke's voice only worked if you stuck to the same personality all the time.  Otherwise they sounded unstable and inconsistent.  That's why they opted for a more neutral tone.

 

I prefer it, I felt less restricted in how I could respond without sounding schizophrenic.

 

Agreed. The good thing about the inquisitor is that I can choose a noble response, then a witty response, then a harsh response, and all the while I still sound like the same individual talking.

If Hawke picked a noble, then a witty, then a harsh response in quick succession, the people in white coats would come and cart him away for being deranged, e.g.

NPC: "My child is missing. Can you help me, sir?"

Hawke (noble): "Of course, dear lady. I shall not leave you in distress for a moment longer than necessary."

NPC: "My son's name is Bedrik. He was playing tag with his friend near the forest. I think dalish elves might've snatched him."

Hawke (witty): "Yes, that's more than likely. Child slaves fetch a lot of money in Tevinter. They're easily trained. I've considered becoming a slaver myself."

NPC:   

Hawke:   

NPC: "Can ... c-can you help me find him?"

Hawke (harsh): "If the money is right, I'll find the little fool and knock some sense into him for you!"

NPC:   

Hawke:   

NPC: "Oh ... on second thoughts ... Do you know the Hero of Ferelden? I've heard she's not much of a talker, but by most accounts she's sane."

[Ieldra]

I wish they'd stopped at more of a middle point between Hawke's extreme and often inappropriate emotions and the inquisitor's almost complete lack of emotions in most conversations.

I can understand that, but it's easier to infuse emotions into neutral lines than to take them out of emotional lines if you don't want them. Most of my characters tend to be low in expressed emotion except in extreme situations, so the Inquisitor suited me very well. And the hint of snark I often got from the middle options were perfect. Maybe the DA team was a little *too* subtle at times, but hey, they've learned subtlety as last, that's something I've always wanted.

[Regan_Cousland]

I wish they'd stopped at more of a middle point between Hawke's extreme and often inappropriate emotions and the inquisitor's almost complete lack of emotions in most conversations.

 

I think Tresspasser showed the inquisitor can be interesting and emotive when she's involved in an exciting storyline.

She seemed so bland in the main campaign because most of the time she was standing around speaking to lifeless NPCs about dull things like ram meat.

Thus the real problem isn't with the inquisitor, per se; the problem is, once again, BioWare's new MMO approach to storytelling. If DA4 returns to the Mass Effect/Dragon Age 2 form of storytelling, I have a feeling that the inquisitor will become more interesting to match.

 

[Ieldra]

I think Tresspasser showed the inquisitor can be interesting and emotive when she's involved in an exciting storyline.

She seemed so bland in the main campaign because most of the time she was standing around speaking to lifeless NPCs about dull things like ram meat.

Thus the real problem isn't with the inquisitor, pe se; the problem is, once again, BioWare's new MMO approach to storytelling. If DA4 returns to the Mass Effect/Dragon Age 2 form of storytelling, I have a feeling that the inquisitor will become more interesting to match.

You may be onto something here. I didn't have a problem with the Inquisitor in Trespasser in spite of a higher level of emotion, so they may have found a sweet spot there.

 

As for the storytelling format, as long as they don't return to protagonists as defined as Hawke, or even worse, Shepard, I'd be ok with that. The balance between exploration for its own sake and story-relevant exploration is certainly off in DAI and needs some adjustment. Some maps are really nice, though, and I'd probably prefer an adjustment to the present setup with more story-relevant maps instead of a complete overhaul. And no Inquisitor protagonist of course.

[Heimdall]

You may be onto something here. I didn't have a problem with the Inquisitor in Trespasser in spite of a higher level of emotion, so they may have found a sweet spot there.

 

As for the storytelling format, as long as they don't return to protagonists as defined as Hawke, or even worse, Shepard, I'd be ok with that. The balance between exploration for its own sake and story-relevant exploration is certainly off in DAI and needs some adjustment. Some maps are really nice, though, and I'd probably prefer an adjustment to the present setup with more story-relevant maps instead of a complete overhaul. And no Inquisitor protagonist of course.

My impression is that Bioware understands this.

 

I just hope they've learned their lesson about setting most of the game in assorted slices of wilderness rather than letting us explore the places people actually live.

[Aren]

I'm on the opposite side, and it's also symbolic, in two different ways:

(1) I'm with Morrigan when she says that humanity blunders around, destroying what it doesn't understand, and if that's not stopped all that's left will be the mundane. I do not consider that desirable.

 

Me and Morrigan have a completely different definition of what is a wonder.

To see a World in a Grain of Sand

And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,

Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand

And Eternity in an hour

Silence is the sleep that nourishes wisdom.

Everything has its wonders, even darkness and silence.

The purpose of training and meditation is to tighten up the slack, toughen the body, and polish the spirit,but those who live of shorcuts end up like that,so powerful and yet  so full of  defects  and weaknesses

No wonder of why she ended up to be an eternal slave in the pursuit of power

(also gave birth to a child for "power" possibly with men of whom she didn't even cared for, a power  that she doesn't possess anymore),a fitting punishment for what i would define as pride

"what pride had wrought"

of course that i have nothing to learn from all of these failures,of whom i said at the beginning since DAO "this will end badly for you"

To quote Abelas:

Better that would be lost that fall into the hands of the undeserving

Had she have followed his advice (or the one of the Inquisitor) none of this would have happened,but you know she is the all knowledge and whoever disagree just a fool.

[Almostfaceman]

My impression is that Bioware understands this.

 

I just hope they've learned their lesson about setting most of the game in assorted slices of wilderness rather than letting us explore the places people actually live.

 

Meh, I liked exploring the wilderness, uncovering old elven ruins and other ancient history. There was also great mood music for a good portion. 

[Regan_Cousland]

You may be onto something here. I didn't have a problem with the Inquisitor in Trespasser in spite of a higher level of emotion, so they may have found a sweet spot there.

 

As for the storytelling format, as long as they don't return to protagonists as defined as Hawke, or even worse, Shepard, I'd be ok with that. The balance between exploration for its own sake and story-relevant exploration is certainly off in DAI and needs some adjustment. Some maps are really nice, though, and I'd probably prefer an adjustment to the present setup with more story-relevant maps instead of a complete overhaul. And no Inquisitor protagonist of course.

 

I was about to like your comment until I read that last line, which reminded me that your thread and mine are enemies, like the inquisitor and Solas. lol

(Obviously, my thread is the inquisitor in this scenario, because I support the inquisitor, and yours, by default, is the villain. )

[Heimdall]

Meh, I liked exploring the wilderness, uncovering old elven ruins and other ancient history. There was also great mood music for a good portion. 

Some of that is good, but I think if we're supposed to be saving half a continent's worth of people we should actually see those people and where they live.  We got very little of that compared to wildreness.

[Almostfaceman]

Some of that is good, but I think if we're supposed to be saving half a continent's worth of people we should actually see those people and where they live.  We got very little of that compared to wildreness.

 

I have no problem with seeing the people. I would have liked to have seen the cities like you can see them in Witcher 3 (and no, I don't like Witcher 3 more than Inquisition, I like them both like I like two different delicious flavors of ice cream). But I still think they did a lot right with the wilderness.

[Heimdall]

I have no problem with seeing the people. I would have liked to have seen the cities like you can see them in Witcher 3 (and no, I don't like Witcher 3 more than Inquisition, I like them both like I like two different delicious flavors of ice cream). But I still think they did a lot right with the wilderness.

I would agree, I just think there was too much of it and much of it could have used better storylines.

 

I'm just worried Minrathous, (The most historically significant city in all Thedas, arguably) will get the same lackluster treatment as Val Royeaux.

[Former_Fiend]

I stated in another thread that them mis-handling Minrathous and not showing it for all it could be would be a much bigger let down for me than if the Solas story doesn't get proper resolution.

[AresKeith]

I would agree, I just think there was too much of it and much of it could have used better storylines.

 

I'm just worried Minrathous, (The most historically significant city in all Thedas, arguably) will get the same lackluster treatment as Val Royeaux.

 

Hopefully Bioware would take note from the feedback of Val Royeaux and the wilderness 

[tehturian]

Knowing Bioware's record of extreme reactions to criticism. I wouldn't be surprised if the next game is primarily spent in urban environments  

[CardButton]

I stated in another thread that them mis-handling Minrathous and not showing it for all it could be would be a much bigger let down for me than if the Solas story doesn't get proper resolution.

Or they could do both. DUAL PROTAGONISTS WITH COMPETING STORIES (that slowly intertwine) I BELIEVE IN YOU!

 

Inquisitor's overarching story is pursuing Solas (and dealing with his Demi-Godness once he's found) and thus would probably find themselves in the Tevinter countryside and dungeon diving through Ancient Elvhen ruins for much of their early story.  The new Tevinter Protagonist deals with Slave Rebellion/Social Revolution of Tevinter which would work with a very Ground-Up approach to reform/revolution/ (or anarchism if you want it), situating them primarily in Minrathous; again, at least for much of the early game.  Later on it could (and should) open up and both characters could get exposed to both settings and also open up DA:I style exploration to its fullest capacity, but by doing it in this way (with a slow paced exposure to the Nation) it could allow for a richer overall "Tevinter".  We would get to know the country, the capital, deal with the major plot/political/social elements of Tevinter, issues of both modern AND ancient Tevinter/Ancient Elvhen kingdoms and still get to deal with Solas! Both characters get to work with what they are related to, but eventually (and far more naturally) get dragged into the concerns of the other PC as the game progresses.  

 

"Pro New Tevinter PCers" are absolutely correct.  It doesn't make that much sense for the Inquisitor to intrinsically worry about the social/political issues of Tevinter (even if they were close to Dorian, though they may still help him in some capacity).  Conversely the "Pro-Inquisitor PC" players are correct that any attempt to force a new PC to have a relation/issue with Solas would be really awkward (or require a heavy overhaul of Solas as a character) and could never hope to get even close to the "Potential" relationship he had with the Quizzy.  

 

Is it too much to ask for the best of both worlds?  While apprehensive, I still think Bioware has the narrative chops to pull it off.  It would just take a story structure reflective of Halo 2 (in regards on how to properly pull off "balanced" dual protagonists) and a DA game style somewhere in between the overly story centric DA2 and the overly wide open sandbox centric DA:I to have the best chance of success!