527 réponses à ce sujet

[Paragonslustre]

I'm with a few people here.  If DA4 is about Solas, then I want the Inquisitor back as main protagonist - because whether he was romanced or not .... it is on.   Incidentally, if the Inquisitor had died at the end of Trespasser, I would have accepted that and the inevitable new PC.  I don't particularly want dual protag because I don't personally enjoy it - wouldn't stop me playing it though.

 

If it's not about Solas or that story is running in the background, I don't care who we get as I'll more than likely enjoy it regardless.

[renfrees]

Do you mean you wonder what percentage of people want the inquisitor back solely because they want a continued romance dynamic? Or do you wonder how many of the people who want the inquisitor back romanced Solas at some point, because those are two separate things.

The former of course. I wanted to know how many of pro-Inquisitors want them back to continue ill-fated relationship with Solas, and how many think the Inquisitor is the best candidate for adventures in Tevinter. Or if there any reasoning for wanting the Inquisitor back besides "I want a closure with Solas!!" (killing him counts too). So far I haven't seen other motivations.

[Aren]

 
(3) Trespasser has weakened my connection to the Inquisitor

I see......still disappointed for the anchor?

my Inquisitor instead was extremely happy to get rid of it.

The more of this " wonders" are lost  or destroyed the better.

 

[DWareFan]

I thought this was already a given.  The inquisitor can no longer fight and will no longer be the protagonist.

[Ieldra]

I see......still disappointed for the anchor?

my Inquisitor instead was extremely happy to get rid of it.

The more of this " wonders" are lost  or destroyed the better.

it's more symbolic really,as each time i see a powerful construct of the ancient world destroyed or lost i see the inevitable victory of the post veil world over the forgotten kingdom of the elves.

I'm on the opposite side, and it's also symbolic, in two different ways:

(1) I'm with Morrigan when she says that humanity blunders around, destroying what it doesn't understand, and if that's not stopped all that's left will be the mundane. I do not consider that desirable.

(2) Magic and technology are both tools of empowerment. One of the defining differences is that magic can't be taken away from those who have it while technology can, and thus technology empowers a civilization but increases dependence on the individual level, and enables systems of control, while magic empowers the individual, increases independence and enables autonomy - at least until technology gets to a point where it becomes like magic in that regard. Note how Tevinter and the Qun both symbolize that taken to the evil extreme. Tevinter's unbridled individual ambition vs. the Qun's total control. I might be opposed to those extremes, but I'm very strongly in favor of autonomy in this philosophical conflict. That's why within the constraints of the world of Thedas, I'm adamantly pro-mage - in fact, I'd favor a world where everyone has the kind of connection to the Fade that enables magic - that's why I tend to side with Tevinter against the Qun, and that's why I hated to lose the Anchor.

[Almostfaceman]

 i see the inevitable victory of the post veil world over the forgotten kingdom of the elves.

 

 

 

I see the Veil as a dam. It's an artificial construct designed to restrain the forces of nature. Such artificial constructs never last forever. "The Veil is thin here" is a common occurrence, indicative of the Veil's imperfection and impermanence.  It can't deal with the rigors of reality. The natural state of Thedas will wear on the Veil like water on a dam and it will crumble. The elves aren't going anywhere and the Veil is doomed. 

[Redemption2407]

whatever, it is gonna be awful anyway

and everything, literally everything done will have at least two groups of people wanting to go different directions so just one more to the list

 

I don't care which direction they go as long as combat is slow as hell, we have non combat skills and stats to distribute at character creation and levelup

story... it is Bioware, nothing good can come out of it, not even if they actually learned how to write

[Paragonslustre]

I'm on the opposite side, and it's also symbolic, in two different ways:

(1) I'm with Morrigan when she says that humanity blunders around, destroying what it doesn't understand, and if that's not stopped all that's left will be the mundane. I do not consider that desirable.

(2) Magic and technology are both tools of empowerment. One of the defining differences is that magic can't be taken away from those who have it while technology can, and thus technology empowers a civilization but increases dependence on the individual level, and enables systems of control, while magic empowers the individual, increases independence and enables autonomy - at least until technology gets to a point where it becomes like magic in that regard. Note how Tevinter and the Qun both symbolize that taken to the evil extreme. Tevinter's unbridled individual ambition vs. the Qun's total control. I might be opposed to those extremes, but I'm very strongly in favor of autonomy in this philosophical conflict. That's why within the constraints of the world of Thedas, I'm adamantly pro-mage - in fact, I'd favor a world where everyone has the kind of connection to the Fade that enables magic - that's why I tend to side with Tevinter against the Qun, and that's why I hated to lose the Anchor.

 

I appreciate your views but I do find your first point slightly ironic, don't we find out that the ancient elves brought about their own destruction?  Even the Evanuris weren't above killing one of their own and probably abusing their magics to the point where Solas thought it would be a good idea to create the veil and seal them away - and look where that got us  I have posted this before, but I really had to laugh when I came across this banter between Varric and Solas after I had finished the game (including Trespasser)  

 

Spoiler

 

But to keep on topic, I'm fine with what Bioware decides regarding the protagonist in DA4, I would just prefer it if the Inquisitor returned to deal with Solas.

[Hydwn]

I was actually happy with the Inquisition ending - body horror of having your arm removed aside.  Everything else felt like a good bookend.

 

I agree with your main point, however.  It's the assumed situation anyway - new protag, and done with the south was what they seemed to be hammering home throughout Trespasser, and they've said as much in social media.  Still, it helps to state that there are many of us who are fine with that and even prefer it, so they don't need to shoehorn the Inquisitor in.  

 

(Same engine and updated import system means they could likely import the face this time, but as an absolute maximum the Inquisitor should not show up in anything more than a brief advisory role.)

 

I like designing a new character each time.  I like the fresh backstory.  I like that protagonists that can die make it feel less like the persistent world of an MMO where nothing you do has a serious effect.  

Besides, In a game filled with genius loci - living places like the Fade and the insides of Titans - it's appropriate that the main character should be the setting itself.  Thedas is our hero, and our villain.

 

Also, I do find reading the BSN sometimes confusing.  Judging from thread titles, we want the Warden back, Inquisition is the worst game since E.T., but we want the next game to feature the inquisitor as protagonist.  That's a bit of a mixed message right there

[Ieldra]

I appreciate your views but I do find your first point slightly ironic, don't we find out that the ancient elves brought about their own destruction?  Even the Evanuris weren't above killing one of their own and probably abusing their magics to the point where Solas thought it would be a good idea to create the veil and seal them away - and look where that got us  I have posted this before, but I really had to laugh when I came across this banter between Varric and Solas after I had finished the game (including Trespasser)

This was about more than the elves, but about the things of the ancient world that evoke a sense of wonder, often creations of the ancient elves, rather than those elves themselves. It's probably good that the Evanuris are gone, but their creations shouldn't be. It's also about ancient life forms. Projecting myself to Thedas, I wouldn't want to live near a high dragon, but I'd want them to continue to exist somewhere.

But to keep on topic, I'm fine with what Bioware decides regarding the protagonist in DA4, I would just prefer it if the Inquisitor returned to deal with Solas.

I think we can expect the Ex-Inquisitor to play a role in that, regardless of who's the protagonist, but I'd prefer to see the Ex-Inquisitor in a supporting role, for instance as an ally. I would prefer it if they kept her completely off-screen except for one key scene around the end.

[Almostfaceman]

whatever, it is gonna be awful anyway

and everything, literally everything done will have at least two groups of people wanting to go different directions so just one more to the list

 

I don't care which direction they go as long as combat is slow as hell, we have non combat skills and stats to distribute at character creation and levelup

story... it is Bioware, nothing good can come out of it, not even if they actually learned how to write

 

[Xetykins]

whatever, it is gonna be awful anyway
and everything, literally everything done will have at least two groups of people wanting to go different directions so just one more to the list
 
I don't care which direction they go as long as combat is slow as hell, we have non combat skills and stats to distribute at character creation and levelup
story... it is Bioware, nothing good can come out of it, not even if they actually learned how to write

Have faith. Although cdpr dethroned Bioware for me personally in terms of writing, I still think they are one of the best out there. I think Andromeda is going to rock.

I'd love to see them without EA shackles and do what they do best.

[Ieldra]

Also, I do find reading the BSN sometimes confusing.  Judging from thread titles, we want the Warden back, Inquisition is the worst game since E.T., but we want the next game to feature the inquisitor as protagonist.  That's a bit of a mixed message right there

I didn't want the Warden back, I think DAI is the best Bioware game since DAO, and I don't want the Inquisitor back as the protagonist. I don't think I'm in a minority - should I make more threads to balance the general impression?

 

BTW, just because a thread named "Why is DAI a failure" (0 likes for the OP) remains on the first page, that doesn't mean the general impression is bad. First reply: "Excuse me. I thought DAI is mind-blowing" (100 likes).

 

Also, it's perfectly possible to like a character and their story and still to prefer not to see them again as the protagonist of a new game. For instance, if really liked the ending, then future instalments with the same protagonist are more likely to disappoint. My Warden's ending in DAO was perfect, so I'm glad they didn't given him a major role in DAI. In the Inquisitor's case, the new ending did disappoint as opposed to the original one, but any new story would be very unlikely to balance that out, given the source of my disappointment, so they'd better be gone as long as my annoyance level remains in non-ME3 bounds. A fresh start in Tevinter is just what I need.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I've gotten attached to the idea of a dual protagonist with the Inquisitor being controllable for relatively brief non-combat sequences while the new PC takes center stage.

 

I prefer the Inquisitor as the next protag, but I can settle for the above.^

[straykat]

I can barely care about Thedas in general now, let alone Southern Thedas. If this is the kind of fate for large political areas and landmasses, then why should I care about the world as a whole? I'm struggling with that. I want to like some of the game, but Southern Thedas just potentially got saved by a random, bland protagonist out of nowhere, who was handed the hero card quicker than when ME1 Liara thought she was Shep's soulmate. That's how it feels to me. Truly. Like it was written for someone so needy that they crave instant gratifaction and connection. No context, no real process or intrigue to any of it. Except it's not one Asari this time. It's all of Southern Thedas that wants crown you as their special savior. It says a lot what Bioware thinks of their fanbase when they do this. That we're all really that pathetic and immature and need that "importance" button pushed for us so quickly. I didn't see this coming.. I was a fan before.

 

So no.. I don't want to see the Inquisitor again. But probably for different reasons than some here.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I can barely care about Thedas in general now, let alone Southern Thedas. If this is the kind of fate for large political areas and landmasses, then why should I care about the world as a whole? I'm struggling with that. I want to like some of the game, but Southern Thedas just potentially got saved by a random, bland protagonist out of nowhere, who was handed the hero card quicker than when ME1 Liara thought she was Shep's soulmate. That's how it feels to me. Truly. Like it was written for someone so needy that they crave instant gratifaction and connection. Except it's not one Asari this time. It's all of Southern Thedas that wants crown you as their special savior. It says a lot what Bioware thinks of their fanbase when they do this. That we're all really that pathetic and immature. I didn't see this coming.. I was a fan before.

Playing a protagonist that gets blown up, accused of murder, and works their way out of that by risking their life constantly and helping people is immature instant gratification? Me thinks you might be projecting with your hyperbole here. Either that or we played different games. Which is possible, I suppose, as roleplaying can have a lot to do with the experience.

[straykat]

Playing a protagonist that gets blown up, accused of murder, and works their way out of that by risking their life constantly and helping people is immature instant gratification? Me thinks you might be projecting with your hyperbole here. Either that or we played different games. Which is possible, I suppose, as roleplaying can have a lot to do with the experience.

 

It isn't hyperbole. I just think the set up is childish. The Inquisition deserved something more intriguing and mature. Not a high fantasy plot in it's most bare bones form.

 

I'm not here to debate though. I don't really care if you change or not. That's not my purpose. Like it all you want. This is just me sighing and throwing my hands in the air a bit.

[Ieldra]

It isn't hyperbole. I just think the set up is childish. The Inquisition deserved something more intriguing and mature. Not a high fantasy plot in it's most bare bones form.

I wasn't all that thrilled with this "instant saviour" setup either - and it was that, since you got the Anchor in the prologue and people regarded you as the Herald of Andraste from that point onward - but I could live with it and came to like my Inquisitor in spite of it, since all of that was not intrinsic to herself. What others believe can be annoying, but ultimately it's of little importance to what you actually are. I'd have preferred a less simplistic plot, too, though opinions usually differ as to what "intriguing and mature" means. What would have been "intriguing and mature" for you?

[vbibbi]

Bolded for emphasis. That's what I've always said. The only final closure is death. As long as characters are alive, it's always possible to ask "what happened then"? For the same reason, I often propose that people stop asking, lest the writers listen too closely and make the characters die.

 

Having said that, with Trespasser the Inquisitor/Solas romance screams for some kind of continuance. After the original ending, it had ended in a defined state of death (of the romance, not the characters of course), but Trespasser re-opened the story between them. It should be, however, a story we watch, or a story we may be able to influence from the outside with the next protagonist, rather than being one of the participants. I see the choice at the end of Trespasser as a guideline from the player to the writers, as for how they should write her as an NPC in scenes related to Solas.

Personally, I think that prior to ME3, Bioware would have had Trespasser end with the choice of the Inquisitor dying or relinquishing the power of the Anchor to Solas (making him more powerful, so potentially the morally "wrong" choice). Since ME3's ending, Bioware has had to play it very safe with their characters and storytelling (see non-threatening Corypheus, no mentionable deaths for much of DAI, an "easy" out in the Fade by sacrificing Stroud, etc etc). So they didn't want to even have the possibility of killing the Inquisitor for fear of fan backlash. I still see people posting about how morally wrong it was to perform the dark ritual, and if they didn't, they or Alistair would have to die. Yeah I get it, it's a crappy situation, that's the whole point. But now, Bioware is in a position where they can't kill off the Inquisitor but have to have some reasonable way to prevent them from returning as PC. Hm, depower them, have the Inquisition disbanded or under the control of the Divine, mention that they need new agents outside of their chain of command in order to hunt Solas. I guess that's not clear enough that they aren't coming back as a PC.

 

Granted, I understand that if Inky appears as an NPC in the next game, there's a big risk of that appearance failing like Hawke did in DAI. And yes, the Inquisitor has a much stronger relationship to Solas than a new protagonist will. But unfortunately, that is how the situation has been written and it's a matter of making the best out of a suboptimal situation.

 

Antagonistic Inquisitors swore to kill Solas. They were manipulated by him for a year. He destroyed their arm, and then told them to their face that he was going to kill them. Solas himself refuses to tell the Inquisitor what his plans are because that would be giving the Inquisitor a weapon to use against him. Everything in that scene says the Inquisitor is going to stop Solas. None of that requires a positive relationship.

And none of that requires the Inquisitor to be the PC. There are other ways to fight a shadow war than to be on the front lines. I would argue that being on the front lines is probably less effective than being an opposing shadow leader directing the cold war.

 

A small cameo of the inquisitor even just to have closure specially for Solasmancers is ok. Also having the inquisitor back as protagonist brings complications. Fans would want their LI with them on the new game. And since there are at least 6 or 7 romancable characters in DAI.... ..then we can just forget getting fresh new companions. It will be DAI ;02.

I wouldn't mind if the PC in DA4 fights through Solas' forces, finally reaches the boss level, and then has to sit back and watch as the Inquisitor walks in and deals with Solas at the end. Not the best storytelling or gameplay in my opinion, but it's a realistic method of bridging the narrative gap from DAI.

 

And good point with the LIs. That is a big draw for a majority of people posting on this forum. If we either have them off screen like Hawke's LIs in DAI, kill them off and get new options, or just don't mention them, people will be upset.

 

I didn't want the Warden back, I think DAI is the best Bioware game since DAO, and I don't want the Inquisitor back as the protagonist. I don't think I'm in a minority - should I make more threads to balance the general impression?

 

BTW, just because a thread named "Why is DAI a failure" (0 likes for the OP) remains on the first page, that doesn't mean the general impression is bad. First reply: "Excuse me. I thought DAI is mind-blowing" (100 likes).

 

Also, it's perfectly possible to like a character and their story and still to prefer not to see them again as the protagonist of a new game. For instance, if really liked the ending, then future instalments with the same protagonist are more likely to disappoint. My Warden's ending in DAO was perfect, so I'm glad they didn't given him a major role in DAI. In the Inquisitor's case, the new ending did disappoint as opposed to the original one, but any new story would be very unlikely to balance that out, given the source of my disappointment, so they'd better be gone as long as my annoyance level remains in non-ME3 bounds. A fresh start in Tevinter is just what I need.

+1

[darkway1]

The thing is,when/if the next DA game comes out (3/4 years?),a large chunk of players will be new to the franchise,they will have no connection what so ever to the Inquisitor story,not to mention that the events that took place in Trespasser DLC for example are only relevant to those who bought the DLC,your average joe DA player hasn't got a clue about what happened and is still happy,running around,killing stuff with both arms.

 

Any direct follow up game would continually need to back track,having to explain relevant events in order to put everything in context,a process that just eats up time and money.

[straykat]

What would you have regarded as "intriguing and mature"?

 

I don't know.. There's a lot of things off the top of my head. A rise up in an existing Inquisition movement, like you might see in Warhammer or pretty much any fantasy based Inquisition. It's a pretty popular subject in fantasy. Or just something that plays directly from the setup of mage/templar conflict in DA2/Asunder. Which I thought was getting cool. It's a shame it just ends up in a big explosion only to setup Corypheus and elven lore. Entirely different subjects. Something that makes you better stand out in that war context.. and disillusioned enough to join Cass and want to "restore order". Or maybe a victim of the war. Anything to give you meaning to why you'd even be involved. And why others would hail you as well. The Circle mage works pretty naturally along these lines.. It's a decent way to propel the story.. I'll give it that. I just don't think they're as fun as DA2 mages, but that's another story.

[Hydwn]

I didn't want the Warden back, I think DAI is the best Bioware game since DAO, and I don't want the Inquisitor back as the protagonist. I don't think I'm in a minority - should I make more threads to balance the general impression?

 

We probably should - I don't want the Warden back, DAI is actually my favourite of the three, and yet I want a fresh start too.  

Though I suspect we've already entered the next phase in the natural life cycle for the fandom of a series with multiple instalments, the point at which we move from "this sequel is the worst thing ever" to "this sequel is a brilliant piece of art but the next one is going to suck."  That's why the sudden calls for the inquisitor to come back.  

 

I watched exactly the same thing happen to DA2 when the release date for DAI came out.  Suddenly one of the most hated sequels in video game history was suddenly appreciated on this board.  I had been defending DA2 for ages and suddenly found people in agreement with me.

 

(It was so sudden it almost seemed to happen overnight.)

[leaguer of one]

I think you misunderstood my point because I don't understand your response.

My point that in trespasser it did not just get started. It not that it did not suddenly happen. Also, Professor X and Magneto say hi.

[leaguer of one]

I can barely care about Thedas in general now, let alone Southern Thedas. If this is the kind of fate for large political areas and landmasses, then why should I care about the world as a whole? I'm struggling with that. I want to like some of the game, but Southern Thedas just potentially got saved by a random, bland protagonist out of nowhere, who was handed the hero card quicker than when ME1 Liara thought she was Shep's soulmate. That's how it feels to me. Truly. Like it was written for someone so needy that they crave instant gratifaction and connection. No context, no real process or intrigue to any of it. Except it's not one Asari this time. It's all of Southern Thedas that wants crown you as their special savior. It says a lot what Bioware thinks of their fanbase when they do this. That we're all really that pathetic and immature and need that "importance" button pushed for us so quickly. I didn't see this coming.. I was a fan before.

 

So no.. I don't want to see the Inquisitor again. But probably for different reasons than some here.

1. The hero card was not really handed untill after the fall of Haven.

2.At this point if you have no connection to the story and plot of da, there is nothing anyone can do to help you.

3.The hero's personality is under your control. If they are bland, that's your fault.

4. Also, instant gratification. You weren't truely the hero untill after the fall of Haven

[vbibbi]

The thing is,when/if the next DA game comes out (3/4 years?),a large chunk of players will be new to the franchise,they will have no connection what so ever to the Inquisitor story,not to mention that the events that took place in Trespasser DLC for example are only relevant to those who bought the DLC,your average joe DA player hasn't got a clue about what happened and is still happy,running around,killing stuff with both arms.

 

Any direct follow up game would continually need to back track,having to explain relevant events in order to put everything in context,a process that just eats up time and money.

That is a good point I hadn't considered. Financially, it would be safest to have a new PC. The percentage of people who played Trespasser is going to be tiny compared to the audience Bioware hopes will purchase DA4. In order to play Trespasser, a player has to finish the entire base game, which a lot of players don't, have played on current gen systems, and purchased an additional DLC to get this new information.

 

So there is no way that Bioware is going to design the PC in the next game with so much history and baggage from the previous game. That will alienate a large percentage of players.