527 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

You're the herald of andraste almost as soon as you got out of the clap irons. Complete with soldiers and advisors and an instant seat on the war room. The difference between before and after the fall of haven is that : before the fall they worship you, and after (almost immediately), everyone's noses were practically brown. IMHO.

[Cobra's_back]

The Inquisitor is not the best candidate to handle Solas. Solas knows everything about the Inquisitor. I think you need a new hero that is written to be smart and crafty. 

 

Dorian has the sending crystal so that you can communicate with the Inquisitor. Let the Inquisitor advise through the sending stones or let the Inquisitor play the Duncan role as a recruiter.

 

The Inquisitor doesn't have to fight if he/she is an advisor or recruiter. If the action is in Tevinter, the sending stone makes perfect sense. 

 

DAI is my favorite game. I like the Inquisitor, but the writers need a really smart protagonist up against Solas or they risk making Solas look lame. They have spent several games and books telling us how clever the trickster was. Now you need a person to outwit him.

[Cobra's_back]

The thing is,when/if the next DA game comes out (3/4 years?),a large chunk of players will be new to the franchise,they will have no connection what so ever to the Inquisitor story,not to mention that the events that took place in Trespasser DLC for example are only relevant to those who bought the DLC,your average joe DA player hasn't got a clue about what happened and is still happy,running around,killing stuff with both arms.

 

Any direct follow up game would continually need to back track,having to explain relevant events in order to put everything in context,a process that just eats up time and money.

Excellent point! I remember some game critic did comment that new gamers had a hard time with the history. Not everyone will have played DAO, DA2, DAI and all the DLCs.

 

That is another good reason for new location and new Hero.

[darkway1]

That is a good point I hadn't considered. Financially, it would be safest to have a new PC. The percentage of people who played Trespasser is going to be tiny compared to the audience Bioware hopes will purchase DA4. In order to play Trespasser, a player has to finish the entire base game, which a lot of players don't, have played on current gen systems, and purchased an additional DLC to get this new information.

 

So there is no way that Bioware is going to design the PC in the next game with so much history and baggage from the previous game. That will alienate a large percentage of players.

 

 

Exactly,in reality not one single Bioware game has ever directly continued a story,each game resets the playing field because addressing the "player choice" mechanic from game to game can't really be done,it's not practical or financially worth spending the time and effort creating content that only small chunks of the player base will ever see.

[vbibbi]

You're the herald of andraste almost as soon as you got out of the clap irons. Complete with soldiers and advisors and an instant seat on the war room. The difference between before and after the fall of haven is that : before the fall they worship you, and after (almost immediately), everyone's noses were practically brown. IMHO.

 

Yes, we need a new special snowflake for all of the magisters and the Qunari triumvirate to brownnose!  

 

The Inquisitor is not the best candidate to handle Solas. Solas knows everything about the Inquisitor. I think you need a new hero that is written to be smart and crafty. 

 

Dorian has the sending crystal so that you can communicate with the Inquisitor. Let the Inquisitor advise through the sending stones or let the Inquisitor play the Duncan role as a recruiter.

 

The Inquisitor doesn't have to fight if he/she is an advisor or recruiter. If the action is in Tevinter, the sending stone makes perfect sense. 

 

DAI is my favorite game. I like the Inquisitor, but the writers need a really smart protagonist up against Solas or they risk making Solas look lame. They have spent several games and books telling us how clever the trickster was. Now you need a person to outwit him.

Exactly. The epilogue put a lot of emphasis on Dorian's sending crystal. Why include this detail if the Inquisitor is going to be right there in Tevinter anyway? And Dorian's worldstate remains the same regardless of our actions. Except for Varric and Josephine, he seems to be the only one in the epilogue whose status isn't variable.

 

And yes to needing a new, clever PC to trick the trickster. There is nothing the Inquisitor can personally do that Solas can't anticipate now. He knows them too well to be fooled by them. It needs to be a new person, even if they're getting support from the Inquisitor or Dorian.

 

Exactly,in reality not one single Bioware game has ever directly continued a story,each game resets the playing field because addressing the "player choice" mechanic from game to game can't really be done,it's not practical or financially worth spending the time and effort creating content that only small chunks of the player base will ever see.

I ran out of likes or you would get one.

[Heimdall]

Excellent point! I remember some game critic did comment that new gamers had a hard time with the history. Not everyone will have played DAO, DA2, DAI and all the DLCs.

 

That is another good reason for new location and new Hero.

A lot of reviewers commented on that.

 

DAI drops you into the action, but for a new player with no understanding of the world (Especially the mage-templar issue), its quite bewildering as prologues go.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

They should do a better job of setting up the prologue in DA4, agreed. I still say there should have been a playable section of the Temple of Sacred Ashes before it went boom that let you talk to people and get some of the world building up and running. But an informative prologue and a returning protagonist are not mutually exclusive. See ME2, for example.

[Nefla]

The former of course. I wanted to know how many of pro-Inquisitors want them back to continue ill-fated relationship with Solas, and how many think the Inquisitor is the best candidate for adventures in Tevinter. Or if there any reasoning for wanting the Inquisitor back besides "I want a closure with Solas!!" (killing him counts too). So far I haven't seen other motivations.

So wanting a hero and a villain with a personal history and grudge isn't a legitimate reason? It's more interesting to me than the same old "this evil guy is trying to kill the world so I guess I will kill him" that we'd get with a new protagonist.

[Arvaarad]

Personally, I think that prior to ME3, Bioware would have had Trespasser end with the choice of the Inquisitor dying or relinquishing the power of the Anchor to Solas (making him more powerful, so potentially the morally "wrong" choice). Since ME3's ending, Bioware has had to play it very safe with their characters and storytelling (see non-threatening Corypheus, no mentionable deaths for much of DAI, an "easy" out in the Fade by sacrificing Stroud, etc etc). So they didn't want to even have the possibility of killing the Inquisitor for fear of fan backlash. I still see people posting about how morally wrong it was to perform the dark ritual, and if they didn't, they or Alistair would have to die. Yeah I get it, it's a crappy situation, that's the whole point. But now, Bioware is in a position where they can't kill off the Inquisitor but have to have some reasonable way to prevent them from returning as PC. Hm, depower them, have the Inquisition disbanded or under the control of the Divine, mention that they need new agents outside of their chain of command in order to hunt Solas. I guess that's not clear enough that they aren't coming back as a PC.

I'm pretty sure the Inquisitor was always going to lose their arm, actually. It's likely a nod to the Norse legend of Tyr, a warrior who got his arm bitten off while stopping the giant fire-breathing wolf Fenrir. The peace is only temporary, and the wolf eventually plays a large role in Ragnarok. During Ragnarok, there's a huge battle, a bunch of gods die, the foundations of the world shake, and the heavens split in two. It's an apocalypse... kind of. Most of the earth is destroyed, but a few people survive, and the land comes back more fertile than before.

Anyway, we never know which pieces of legend will be relevant to Thedas, since they act as influences rather than source material. But for what it's worth, Tyr doesn't die until Ragnarok happens.

And, by the way, Fenrir is also notable for swallowing the sun. However, the sun has a daughter before that happens, and her daughter takes her place in the sky.

[vbibbi]

A lot of reviewers commented on that.

 

DAI drops you into the action, but for a new player with no understanding of the world (Especially the mage-templar issue), its quite bewildering as prologues go.

Agreed!

 

They should do a better job of setting up the prologue in DA4, agreed. I still say there should have been a playable section of the Temple of Sacred Ashes before it went boom that let you talk to people and get some of the world building up and running. But an informative prologue and a returning protagonist are not mutually exclusive. See ME2, for example.

It's tough. With each successive game in the DA universe, there is going to be more history and lore and recent events to catch players up on. So new players become more and more disadvantaged with each game. Now, I am not saying Bioware should be catering to new fans, but we have to realize that as a business, they have to design the game to be as easily accessible to the largest audience possible. And people who post on these forums are the vocal minority; we might be the "hardcore" fans whom Bioware can rely on to purchase their games, but they can't rely on a minority to finance the game. They need to include casual players and new players.

 

It wasn't quite as difficult for ME2 since it was the second of a trilogy, and I think the starting comic did a good job of catching the new player up to speed. But if DA is not advertised as a sequential game series, they can't assume people who purchase DA4 will be longtime fans. That's part of the issue with DA2, where people expected the Warden to return at the PC, or for the game to be very similar to its predecessor. I don't think Bioware is going to ever make that false advertising mistake again and lead buyers to believe the game is a direct sequel.

[Ieldra]

Yes, we need a new special snowflake for all of the magisters and the Qunari triumvirate to brownnose!

I could do with a lot less brownnosing. It became outright annoying at times. Meanwhile, I could also do with less de-powering at the end. I prefer tangible benefits over the meaningless adoration of the masses

 

So, next time I want to start as a mageborn slave who has just been freed (because we need to act independently as the player character), and I want everyone to treat me like sh*t until I have actually achieved something that deserves respect. Meanwhile, if I get a cool magical extra in the course of the story I want to keep it, and combat abilities don't count.

[Gwydden]

So wanting a hero and a villain with a personal history and grudge isn't a legitimate reason? It's more interesting to me than the same old "this evil guy is trying to kill the world so I guess I will kill him" that we'd get with a new protagonist.

Problem is, I fail to see how it is any different this time.

[vbibbi]

I could do with a lot less brownnosing. It became outright annoying at times. Meanwhile, I could also do with less de-powering at the end. I prefer tangible benefits over the meaningless adoration of the masses

 

So, next time I want to start as a mageborn slave who has just been freed (because we need to act independently as the player), and I want everyone to treat me like sh*t until I have actually achieved something that deserves respect. Meanwhile, if I get a cool magical extra in the course of the story I want to keep it, and combat abilities don't count.

I haven't read through the entire conversation, but there is another thread on here about how the Inquisitor is no longer special without the Anchor. And I get the feeling this fuels some of the desire to have them return as protagonist. The Anchor was what made the Inquisitor special and standout. Warden and Hawke didn't have this, so fans had other connections to them. But now that the uniqueness of the Inquisitor is gone, fans have to adjust their connection and reevaluate the Inquisitor. Solution? Replace their unique special snowflake status by giving them a magical unique special snowflake prosthesis which will allow them to continue on saving the world from armageddon. Phew! No mental readjustment needed!

[straykat]

The start of ME2 was terrible too.

 

Hilarious actually. It grew on me. Jacob and his lines. "The best scientists money could buy".

 

Ah, I see.. Jacob. Resurrection isn't a big deal. The best scientists. Gotcha.

 

But it grew on me as the game moved on. Loved the characters. And the hodgepodge nature of the group fit that better than Inquisition trying to touch all bases.

[Gwydden]

I could do with a lot less brownnosing. It became outright annoying at times. Meanwhile, I could also do with less de-powering at the end. I prefer tangible benefits over the meaningless adoration of the masses

 

So, next time I want to start as a mageborn slave who has just been freed (because we need to act independently as the player character), and I want everyone to treat me like sh*t until I have actually achieved something that deserves respect. Meanwhile, if I get a cool magical extra in the course of the story I want to keep it, and combat abilities don't count.

I don't care much for political power and if we end up getting any I'd rather get rid of that by the end of the game.

 

But when it comes to artifacts, be they magical or technological? I agree; finders keepers!

[Nefla]

Problem is, I fail to see how it is any different this time.

We don't know for sure that it would be. For me, my faith in BioWare's writing ability is at an all time low and if I hadn't played Trespasser, I would see no hope for DA4 at all. That being said, I DID play it and it sparked my imagination. I see a lot of potential there for a game with the inquisitor squaring off against Solas. If made, it may not turn out well but I'd have a lot more faith than the same old "new protagonist with no connections materializes out of thin air and stops evil people because they are trying to destroy the land." Also if they brought back a ton of characters as they like to do then it would make sense and not be jarring like it is when they do it with a new protagonist that has never met those characters.

[darkway1]

The start of ME2 was terrible too.

 

Hilarious actually. It grew on me. Jacob and his lines. "The best scientists money could buy".

 

Ah, I see.. Jacob. Resurrection isn't a big deal. The best scientists. Gotcha.

 

But it grew on me as the game moved on. Loved the characters. And the hodgepodge nature of the group fit that better than Inquisition trying to touch all bases.

 

 

Yeah ME2 is a good example of blatantly nuking the plot line in order to create a clean fresh start.

[Gwydden]

We don't know for sure that it would be. For me, my faith in BioWare's writing ability is at an all time low and if I hadn't played Trespasser, I would see no hope for DA4 at all. That being said, I DID play it and it sparked my imagination. I see a lot of potential there for a game with the inquisitor squaring off against Solas. If made, it may not turn out well but I'd have a lot more faith than the same old "new protagonist with no connections materializes out of thin air and stops evil people because they are trying to destroy the land." Also if they brought back a ton of characters as they like to do then it would make sense and not be jarring like it is when they do it with a new protagonist that has never met those characters.

But that's the thing, I don't see the difference. We're still stopping evil people trying to destroy the land, only the Inquisitor comes with the corollary "oh, he may possibly, potentially, maybe, quizas have a personal stake in this conflict. It is just as likely he is indifferent to it and only wants to stop the bald elf because of the whole destroying the world stuff, duh, but let's ignore that fact and pretend he feels strongly about him one way or the other and no matter what."

 

If you want a protagonist with a personal connection to Solas a new one can be made to fit the bill way better than the Inquisitor. But the thing is, no amount of drama will make the Solas plot interesting, because of its inherent suckiness. The best they can do is pull a DAO/ME2 and minimize its influence on the story.

[straykat]

But that's the thing, I don't see the difference. We're still stopping evil people trying to destroy the land, only the Inquisitor comes with the corollary "oh, he may possibly, potentially, maybe, quizas have a personal stake in this conflict. It is just as likely he is indifferent to it and only wants to stop the bald elf because of the whole destroying the world stuff, duh, but let's ignore that fact and pretend he feels strongly about him one way or the other and no matter what."

 

If you want a protagonist with a personal connection to Solas a new one can be made to fit the bill way better than the Inquisitor. But the thing is, no amount of drama will make the Solas plot interesting, because of its inherent suckiness. The best they can do is pull a DAO/ME2 and minimize its influence on the story.

 

The connection with Solas can be said to be as bad as some characters' connection with the Chantry. Only it's worse.. that person can actually change the Chantry. Not the same for Solas, who is more autonomous and untouchable and has his own mind.

 

Which brings me back to another reason I don't like Thedas as much anymore. That such a huge faction can be tampered with by any random character. It's OK to hate the Chantry, but I think it's kind of a sad to change religion in this way. Nothing like this ever happens. It's like grabbing a guy from the local supermarket and giving him the power to change billions of Muslims, Catholics, or Buddhists. It's kind of that level of ridiculous to me. I don't exactly want to live in worlds like this.

[darkway1]

If you want a protagonist with a personal connection to Solas a new one can be made to fit the bill way better than the Inquisitor. But the thing is, no amount of drama will make the Solas plot interesting, because of its inherent suckiness. The best they can do is pull a DAO/ME2 and minimize its influence on the story.

 LOL,I agree,Solas just doesn't generate the levels of threat needed to a super villain.I kinda see Solas as Mass Effects Reapers,he's out to end life as we know it but he can scheme and plan in the background just like the reapers did,which free's up the story to go pretty much any where it likes.

[Nefla]

But that's the thing, I don't see the difference. We're still stopping evil people trying to destroy the land, only the Inquisitor comes with the corollary "oh, he may possibly, potentially, maybe, quizas have a personal stake in this conflict. It is just as likely he is indifferent to it and only wants to stop the bald elf because of the whole destroying the world stuff, duh, but let's ignore that fact and pretend he feels strongly about him one way or the other and no matter what."

 

If you want a protagonist with a personal connection to Solas a new one can be made to fit the bill way better than the Inquisitor. But the thing is, no amount of drama will make the Solas plot interesting, because of its inherent suckiness. The best they can do is pull a DAO/ME2 and minimize its influence on the story.

I feel like the two have a strong connection either through love or hate and always betrayal so obviously I'd want it explored. I know some people don't care about the Solas/inquisitor dynamic, it didn't click with them or what have you but it clicked with me (also I really like the idea of playing a protagonist with a missing limb). I feel like if they tried to make a new protagonist connected to Solas in some way they'd pull a "he destroyed my village" scenario in the beginning of the game.

[Ieldra]

Personally, I think that prior to ME3, Bioware would have had Trespasser end with the choice of the Inquisitor dying or relinquishing the power of the Anchor to Solas (making him more powerful, so potentially the morally "wrong" choice). Since ME3's ending, Bioware has had to play it very safe with their characters and storytelling (see non-threatening Corypheus, no mentionable deaths for much of DAI, an "easy" out in the Fade by sacrificing Stroud, etc etc). So they didn't want to even have the possibility of killing the Inquisitor for fear of fan backlash. I still see people posting about how morally wrong it was to perform the dark ritual, and if they didn't, they or Alistair would have to die. Yeah I get it, it's a crappy situation, that's the whole point. But now, Bioware is in a position where they can't kill off the Inquisitor but have to have some reasonable way to prevent them from returning as PC. Hm, depower them, have the Inquisition disbanded or under the control of the Divine, mention that they need new agents outside of their chain of command in order to hunt Solas. I guess that's not clear enough that they aren't coming back as a PC.

I agree that Bioware has played it safe in that regard, but perhaps they've finally understood that it's almost impossible to do a heroic sacrifice right in a crpg. The basic problem is this: a sacrifice is only valid if it's made freely, based on the player character's perception that something is worth giving their life for, and the player must never feel they're pushed into it by presenting a bad alternative. In fact, the only way I've ever seen this work even in tabletop rpgs is when the decision for the sacrifice was made spontaneously, without the GM setting you up for it. Because if you're set up for it, then this comes across as heavy-handed messaging, an anvil dropped on your head about the virtue of sacrifice, and everyone hates that.

It might actually have worked in ME3 - you didn't have an alternative choice with no sacrifice, but you had three futures that overcame an existential threat, and it's quite plausible that most Shepards would consider at least one of them worth giving their life for, except that the Catalyst poisoned all three alternatives and invalidated the whole scenario.

Anyway, I think you're right and they were in a bind about what to do: It wouldn't be plausible for most Inquisitors to walk away from this problem after everything they've done before, so they couldn't simply make them go away like the Warden. On the other hand, they'd be too powerful if they stayed in the story with all their powers intact. If your reasoning is right, we won't see the Inquisitor as the PC again, and that would be good. I detest the depowering, but I can live with it if I'm not reminded of it by playing the Inquisitor again in the next game.

Granted, I understand that if Inky appears as an NPC in the next game, there's a big risk of that appearance failing like Hawke did in DAI. And yes, the Inquisitor has a much stronger relationship to Solas than a new protagonist will. But unfortunately, that is how the situation has been written and it's a matter of making the best out of a suboptimal situation.

One can hope. I would need several aspects of my main Inquisitor to be respected if she appeared as an NPC and the topic comes up: She didn't believe in the Maker, she rejected her role as Andraste's Herald, she was pro-mage, and she told Solas she'd try to show him a better way.

[renfrees]

So wanting a hero and a villain with a personal history and grudge isn't a legitimate reason? It's more interesting to me than the same old "this evil guy is trying to kill the world so I guess I will kill him" that we'd get with a new protagonist.

No, since Solas/Fen'Harel isn't the hero nor the villain of the series. Thedas is. What you want is an extended expansion, not a new game. Solas' conflict has next to nothing to do with Tevinter, Qunari or Northern Thedas.

[Fredward]

I only really agree with the first point but that's enough for me, southern Thedas is sooo 2014 it's time to CAVORT in Tevinter!

[Nefla]

No, since Solas/Fen'Harel isn't the hero nor the villain of the series. Thedas is. What you want is an extended expansion, not a new game. Solas' conflict has next to nothing to do with Tevinter, Qunari or Northern Thedas.

I only want it because of what BioWare did with Trespasser. If they hadn't made that then I'd have gladly dismissed DA4 and gone about my merry way. BioWare said DA is about Thedas but then they continue plotlines from one game to another, and bring returning companions, NPCs, cameos, etc...to another country to be with a new protagonist they don't know. If it's about Thedas then they should make each story separate with different protagonists and different companions in different locations. I don't feel that I learned anything new about Thedas in DA:I.