75 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

 

 

 

We can consider 3 different scenarios:

 

1)Alistair king scenario 

Obviously  he can be a grey warden but then there is nothing to discuss,since Kieran is automatically disqualified as to be an heir

In this case Kieran is the son of a bastard king and a witch so he is more akin to a commoner rather than a noble ,also AListair didn't even know him and Morrigan can prove anything.

Also Morrigan is bound to her word,what she said and promised to Redclieffe, to never use the child as a possible heir.

 

 

2)Loghain scenario

Even if Anora is the queen and the sister of the boy Loghain is a traitor and does not possess any titles anymore,so Kieran is disqualified

 

 

3)King COusland consort scenario

This is the only scenario in which Kieran legitimacy could possibly came to be.

he is the son of the HoF which is also part of the crown with anora that in DAI as her codex entry stated is looking for a way to keep quiet the nobles of Ferelden possible with an heir,so she will use given the chance the boy for her own ends.

The king have the possibility to come to know the child unlike Alistair king,and also in this scenario Morrigan never promised anything like she instead did to Alistair.

So next ruler would be either Fergus or one of his child or either Kieran in this scenario.

[Sports72Xtrm]

What is important is not so much the Theirin line but the blood of Calenhad the founding father as it were of modern Fereldan- there is one other family with direct ancestry from that bloodline- the Couslands

Uh the Couslands aren't related to the Theirins or Calenhad in any way. They were just a really popular noble family who actually submitted to Calenhad long ago. Since Alistair is proclaimed a descendant of Maric, they owe him fealty. But with out Theirin blood, any arl or bann from the bannorn would just say "F*** Fergus, my ancestors didn't swear fealty to him and his heirs." He'll never keep Ferelden together, atleast Alistair whether the bannorn believe him to be Maric's son or not, if it comes to civil war many will prop him up just to stop the violence.

[Andromelek]

In this scenario you have also to consider 3 things
1)AListair is a bastard and if Eamon opted for him it is because there were no other alternatives,albeit i still thing that a noble male Cousland is more legitimated than him.
2)Kieran is the son of a of a bastard king and a witch so he is more akin to a commoner rather than a noble.
3)Either he is a mage or either Morrigan is  bound to her own word and he will never become an heir.
Maybe i can think of Kieran as an heir if he is the son of a King Cousland but still he remains the son of a witch.
In short it is more probabile that another noble will become king after the curent rulers,the Theirin dynasty is over regardless.

I said it would work to keep such useless bloodline living on Thedas, not to keep it in power, Alistair's hate towards Witches and the bad image Bannorn might have of magic make that impossible.

[Aren]

It is kind of a given that he will get someone pregnant before the taint destroys his body.

 

It would be too much of a slap to the face if the writers just let the bloodline die out even after making the decision of preserving it by picking Alistair as king.

Don't care i already have another king and h s new dynasty

Plus in all honesty i don't think that Weeckes will care about AListair of Ferelden,he would care more about Solas and possibly lavellan.

[loyallyroyal]

Ugh, yet he will dump any mage/non human if made king. Love doesn't much matter to him at that point IMO since his "duty" clearly matters more to him. "King Douchebag" is more like it. Hence why Alistair is never king in my canon. 

 

Anyway, OP, we don't actually know that Alistair is "fertile" since I think the dark ritual worked because it was a dark ritual. I'd like to think that the Maker cursed Alistair with infertility for being King Colossal Douchbag to romanced mage/non human ladies.

 

I will admit that whole it wouldn't be fair breakup stung. What made me so frustrated is you can discuss with Anora and Alistair before the Landsmeet about them getting married and your relationship not changing. He literally asks what does this mean for us, and you can respond  it doesn't change anything. It would of been a good time for him to mention that being king is a deal breaker. 

 

It would also have been nice to make Alistair meeting Keiran a bigger deal, would have loved to see Anora's response.  ​

[Aren]

Uh the Couslands aren't related to the Theirins or Calenhad in any way. They were just a really popular noble family who actually submitted to Calenhad long ago. Since Alistair is proclaimed a descendant of Maric, they owe him fealty. But with out Theirin blood, any arl or bann from the bannorn would just say "F*** Fergus, my ancestors didn't swear fealty to him and his heirs." He'll never keep Ferelden together, atleast Alistair whether the bannorn believe him to be Maric's son or not, if it comes to civil war many will prop him up just to stop the violence.

The theirin dynasty is nothing special they get to power thanks to the blood of a dragon near to his death, a dragon blood that was granted to them by Flemeth,Chalenad drink from that blood,other than that they have nothing special really.

Chalenad succede thanks to the power granted to him by FLemeth,Arland was a dictator

Maric get pretty much tutored by Loghain,Cailan was a failure while Alistair was just hiding behind the HoF back,so i would say that their history is full of peoples who did the hard work for them.

SO an HoF who is also king as way more power to rule without problem the entire Ferelden,with Bhele as a friend and Leliana the Divine as friend....more powerful than this...

also the only thing relationship between chalenad and the COuslands is that they both are from highever which is the place of wonders since that is the place of Mythal appearance

[Aren]

I said it would work to keep such useless bloodline living on Thedas, not to keep it in power, Alistair's hate towards Witches and the bad image Bannorn might have of magic make that impossible.

I don't really understand why Eamon  want to have AListair at any cost,oh yes he want to be chancellor... smart man 

[Sports72Xtrm]

 

The theirin dynasty is nothing special they get to power thanks to the blood of a dragon near to his death, a dragon blood that was granted to them by Flemeth,Chalenad drink from that blood,other than that they have nothing special really.

Chalenad succede thanks to the power granted to him by FLemeth,Maric get pretty much tutored by Loghain while Alistair was ust hiding behind the HoF,so i would say that their history is full of peoples who did the hard work for them.

 

Loghain said he would conquer the Fade for Maric if he asked him to, I say someone who inspires that kind of devotion is pretty special. Anyways it's a moot point, Fereldaners are stubborn headstrong people. Eamon's right, they'll descend to to civil war. All they care about is long ago, their ancestors swore an oath to the Theirin dynasty. No other noble will be able to hold the Ferelden throne because some commoner, bann, or arl will always have grounds to rebel and say "F*** the usurper". Whether people think Alistair is worthy to lead or not, it's the belief that Theirin blood runs through his veins that keeps Ferelden a nation instead of a bunch of squabling nobles.

[Andromelek]

I don't really understand why Eamon  want to have AListair at any cost,oh yes he want to be chancellor... smart man

Alistair: I'm tired of being a pawn.
Eamon: *facepalm* Lol, sure boy!

[Carmen_Willow]

Dynasties end, new bloodlines take the throne. Such is the way of kings and queens. Since my Alistair always does the dark ritual, his DNA continues though his royal bloodline fades into history.

 

Since my brother, Fergus, survives, and can remarry,  and the MacTir line is disinherited (and will probably die out altogether considering the fact that Anora may be infertile), the Couslands will probably be the next rulers of Ferelden (Unless Teagan stages a coup). Fergus or his son will make a finr ruler. He is my blood after all.

[NRO TYN]

I would love to see a dev comment on this post.

 

I remember back in the day they use to comment somewhat, what happen ??

[BansheeOwnage]

Pretty sure that Eamon died of a very severe case of facepalm in that timeline.

Well, it's obvious that's the case, since the nobility haven't managed to convince him to find someone in 10 years.

[Brass_Buckles]

Someone on the first page pointed out a very real possibility that has seemingly been ignored:

 

Cailin was evidently not all that faithful to Anora.  Although there is birth control available on Thedas (Witherstalk, and likely other options too), there's a pretty good chance that his mistress(es) would have wanted to have his bastard.  Having a bastard means he might offer financial support/gifts, and, of course, in the absence of any other heir, you could be the mother of the next king/queen.

 

Even barring that, accidents happen.

 

So... Kieran is possible, if he's the son of Alistair, and if he grows up and decides he wants to be king someday.  Fergus is also possible, but he'd have to inspire loyalty.  More likely, we're going to learn that Cailin had a bastard child, and that will be the next heir.

 

Unless the Warden cured the taint, and is able to administer that cure to King Alistair, Kieran or a bastard of Calin's are your only options.

 

However, I remember Gaider remarking that the Theirins are not known for having lots of heirs, and so there may be fertility issues with Cailin AND with Alistair.  As others pointed out, Anora might not be barren.  It's folly to always blame the woman--men have fertility issues too.  Even should Alistair marry, there's no guarantee that he, or his chosen wife, is fertile.  Some people would be deeply displeased if he didn't have a child with their HoF cured of the taint; others would be deeply insulted if he had a child with HoF if cured from the taint.  And that is assuming that Cured!HoF is female, fertile, and in a relationship with Alistair, and wants children.  Not everyone wants kids for their characters, and let's face it--that's another reason that it's unlikely for Alistair to have any child other than possibly Kieran.

 

So yeah... Cailin's bastard (assuming Cailin was not infertile, or "lucked out" with a mistress), or Kieran, once old enough to decide that he wants to be king (or someone else decides for him after figuring out his father is Alistair).

[Aren]

Loghain said he would conquer the Fade for Maric if he asked him to, I say someone who inspires that kind of devotion is pretty special. Anyways it's a moot point, Fereldaners are stubborn headstrong people. Eamon's right, they'll descend to to civil war. All they care about is long ago, their ancestors swore an oath to the Theirin dynasty. No other noble will be able to hold the Ferelden throne because some commoner, bann, or arl will always have grounds to rebel and say "F*** the usurper". Whether people think Alistair is worthy to lead or not, it's the belief that Theirin blood runs through his veins that keeps Ferelden a nation instead of a bunch of squabling nobles.

Only thing that i know is that the Theirin bloodline born thanks to the deal with a witch and it is because of this if their heir possessed some little remnants of the dragon blood

AListair i'm not sure since he his not even a noble,and he is also the son of an elf and it is because nobody know this that Eamon suggested him as candidate, but if the nobility will come to know the identity of her mother (which everyone think is a commoner yes but a human) he would be ruined.

As much as i like the elves the (half blood included) cannot be noble in context this would have disastrous consequences,if some nobles will come to know of enchanter Fiona ,and it is possible that maybe Eamon and Loghain already know this,since Maric was a friend with them.King Alistair will quickly lose his legitimity..

His blood is also tainted,infected.

 If the nobility will come to know about the truth of Chalenad

believe me from the informations you will get to know that he wasn't this super shining hero painted into the DAO codexes,just like Maric wasn't this brilliant tactician and hero ,it was Loghain who did the hard work while he used to jump from one bed to another.

For certain Anora is perfectly capable to handle the nation and preventing a civil war like she did ,10 years later of DAO the war was on Orlais not in Ferelden,plus a noble King Cousland  is not just a king also an HoF who eat those weak nobles for breakfast (as i did in DAA with Esmerelle and company)

[Ariella]

Just to toss something else out... Alistair was conceived when his mother was cured of the taint, iirc. Wonder if that did anything.

As for the epilogues, yes, they've been relegated to hearsay and rumor, because they weren't sure of DA's future and wanted to give some kind of closure. However, they really don't add that much to the story and considering how buggy they were, I'm just as happy they did ignore them (My Cousland married Alistair but for some reason Anora was pissy about us being together...)

[Aren]

 

 I also didn't particularly like or trust Anora after she betrayed the Warden and Alistair in the Arl of Denerim's estate.

 

 

Anora didn't betrayed the Warden,she asked to you to not reveal her presence to Cauthrien otherwise this would have endanger her life,  and yet you did the opposite by revealing her presence,this is the kind of situations in which players fail to see things and their choice is doomed by the narrative since also expert spies companions invested in politics like Leliana and Zevran talk about betrayal without recognize that the warden was a dolt in the situation in the first place.

i do not know what the writers of the game were drinking when they wrote the dialogues of Zevran and Leliana when they talk about betrayal,they know  how these things works unlike the others companions.

[Aren]

 

As the player of a mage Warden who romanced a hardened Alistair only to be relegated to the title of mistress for the sake of a legitimate prince or princess who will probably never be born, I don't like this situation at all, but I recognize the necessity of it.

Or more likely they forced him to be a king to let him avoid the nightmare demon(unless you don't care about Stroud),tbh seriously however only heir can be the scenario o f Kieran fathering by a King consort since Anora will have no problem in using the kid for her own ends "keep quiet the nobility" and after that the child lost the archdemon soul "if the player opted for that ending" Morrigan original plan and expectation will not interfere anymore.

[Secret Rare]

I'd also love some consequences for my Warden who did marry Alistair, knowing that they'd probably be infertile and the Thierin bloodline would end. It's hard to feel like that was a meaningful decision knowing that Ferelden will seemingly end up with no heir regardless of what anyone does. 

Not true if Kieran is the son of the HoF which is also a noble married to Anora it's easy to predict that the  queen would like to have him around,afterall the heir conceived by the consorts are legitimate if they have the approval of the regnant ruler (Anora this case) and give the fact that Anora seem to be genuinely caring for the Husband (unlike Alistair) in this scenario Ferelden can have an heir.

Also unlike Alistair ,Anora is made the queen directly by her husband,basically they become rulers together elected by the landsmeet,the whole consort things strike me particularly as an attempt from Anora to try to avoid what happened with Loghain who usurped her power.

The argument don't made sense to me since the landsmeet can easily pick a new ruler also among the nobles,like they did want to do with Bryce,even when Clailan was alive and well,most member of the nobility appreciate competence rather than the right of blood,and only few traditionalists like Eamon (who want to augment their influence)will say differently.

So maybe thwy will just elect the HoF f noble as the ruler,it is possible.

[Secret Rare]

I expect them to ignore anything from previous games that gets in the way of the story they want to tell, just as they've been doing all along (many of the DA:O epilogues are examples of this).

If, however, we go by current information, I think the Theirin bloodline will die out and the Landsmeet will elect a new ruling line (my money is on the Couslands). If they need a Theirin for the dragon blood thing (I'm not holding my breath), then some long lost cadet branch can be discovered.

Fergus or the HoF male,since the female scenario already have Alistair as king

[berelinde]

Folks, I know this will sound like heresy to some, but the HoF may not be Kieran's father. The HoF may very well be female. Alistair may be Kieran's father, or Loghain may. Kieran may not even exist. Your HN Anora-marrying Warden is absolutely no more "official canon" than anyone else's Warden. You don't have to accept that, but failing to do so will not make you right.

[Secret Rare]

 

 

 

***

 

 

Magic is an hereditary trait: Kieran always have Morrigan has his mother and may have another powerful mage as his father or paternal grandmother depending on who did the ritual. It's a fairly safe guess to assume that he's at least a latent mage.

 

***

 

not sure about this since Carver Hawke is the son of a skilled mage and also her mother was amell and yet he is no mage

[Secret Rare]

Folks, I know this will sound like heresy to some, but the HoF may not be Kieran's father. The HoF may very well be female. Alistair may be Kieran's father, or Loghain may. Kieran may not even exist. Your HN Anora-marrying Warden is absolutely no more "official canon" than anyone else's Warden. You don't have to accept that, but failing to do so will not make you right.

Is not official, my canon is Anora solo ruler,Loghain redeemed and a female city elf as HoF so i don't particularly care about Ferelden throne,the fact is that among all the possible variations there is one who can have the potential to have a ferelden heir,but it is not my worldstate.

Also without the landsmeet theirin or not an heir will not go anywhere.

[Nixou]

not sure about this since Carver Hawke is the son of a skilled mage and also her mother was amell and yet he is no mage

 

 

The games and lore all hint at Templars being themselves mages: the order comes from the mage-led inquisition, their Seekers cousins bound with spirits of faith to gain their abilities, templars negate the mages' spells by reinforcing the veil with their minds and their powers are reinforced by Lyrium: everything point toward the Templars being mages whose denial about their very nature as mages affects the way their powers manifest.

 

Carver specializes as a templar.

[TK514]

Fergus or the HoF male,since the female scenario already have Alistair as king

 

I'd say Fergus is the perfect man to take on the job.  Bryce Cousland, if memory serves, was considered for the throne by the Landsmeet, but declined the nomination because the Couslands are staunch royalists.  Highever is, itself, a kingdom within the larger Ferelden nation, being the largest of the internal provinces, and Fergus was raised to rule it, as firstborn son.  Plus there's no doubt he's able to produce heirs.

 

In the absence of a Theirin heir, he is extremely well placed to be elected to the throne, and that's not even taking into account that his sibling could be the HoF.

[Andreas Amell]

I think it would be amusing if something happens to Alistair and Anora and the fortune teller's reading comes true.