147 réponses à ce sujet

[wass12]

So the Claymore requires a skilled user. How is this argument in favor of the Claymore? Because it means that the Claymore is so bad that it requires tremendous amount of user skill to compensate for its badness.

[Fuenf789]

So the Claymore requires a skilled user. How is this argument in favor of the Claymore? Because it means that the Claymore is so bad that it requires tremendous amount of user skill to compensate for its badness.

Now, this, is truely a fresh angle after 72 pages of repetition. Hat off to u wass12.

[Kenny Bania]

Skilled minority? What's so hard about reload cancelling?

[PatrickBateman]

Skilled minority? What's so hard about reload cancelling?

About as hard as spamming snap freeze with the Paladin.

[Kenny Bania]

About as hard as spamming snap freeze with the Paladin.

 

You're dead wrong. Now that is something that's for the skilled minority.

[physiolosopher]

Are there really that many people that hate the claymore? Claiming the wraith is better is one thing but this feels like celebrities on social media shouting out to their "haterz".

[Fuenf789]

You're dead wrong

Shouldn't u increment the BSN victories in ur signature =580 by 1, then?
How does that counter work btw?

[Best VolusSupport NA]

So the Claymore requires a skilled user. How is this argument in favor of the Claymore? Because it means that the Claymore is so bad that it requires tremendous amount of user skill to compensate for its badness.

 

It's true to an extent.

 

Aim is sh**t then go use the wraith.

 

Your aim is on point and reload cancelling is 2nd nature to you, then the claymore is easy to use, at least from my stand point as long time user of the claymore, at the same time would not claim to be the best obviously.

 

Also the claymore isn't bad lol, the only answer I'll take would be the pre buffed claymore at level 1 with no attachments. 

 

And yes the claymore did get buffed a long time ago back then believe it or not if you wanna look at the balance changes if you don't believe me. 

 

More or less the better term wasn't because it was "bad" but rather the difficulty of using it, is that much higher if your not on the ball with your aiming and reload cancelling as opposed to a wraith with it's forgiving 2 shot magazine and faster reload (I think is faster than the claymore), which takes away the need to reload cancelling out of the equation and the fact that it's less punishing. 

[Kenny Bania]

Shouldn't u increment the BSN victories in ur signature =580 by 1, then?
How does that counter work btw?

 

I keep a log. I update the sig when I have the time.

[Teh_Ocelot]

It's difficult to comprehend why this took 4 pages to show up..

 

[Fuenf789]

^ if it was true, Michelango, in his sheer talent, as the greatest artist, would've drawn it like that.
But it isn't.

In fact there is nothing inbetween - which meant Michelangelo already knew hundreds of years before, there are no "best" gun in me3.

[Tupari]

Even after playing the game for three years I still have yet to get the hang of using a highly accurate shotgun that one hit bodyshot kills most mooks and then pressing a button to cancel an animation. Please give me some tips and pointers so that I can better use this gun. 

[Deerber]

It's difficult to comprehend why this took 4 pages to show up..

 

 

Eh, bsn isn't what it used to be

[Deerber]

Also, all the people who say the Claymore OHK mooks with bodyshots... Are we even playing the same game? With the same gun?

[FasterThanFTL]

The real truth:

 

[Teh_Ocelot]

The real truth:

 

Truly, I'm 100% on board with your edit of that picture.

 

The Wraith is absolutely where it belongs, tiny and stuck in a corner

[Quarian Master Race]

So the Claymore requires a skilled user. How is this argument in favor of the Claymore? Because it means that the Claymore is so bad that it requires tremendous amount of user skill to compensate for its badness.

That's like saying a Moto GP bike is worse than a Vespa because it takes more skill to not kill yourself on the former when you put the hammer down despite it obviously being better in every way than a moped except boring shіt like "practicality"

Scrub argument is scrub.

[GruntKitterhand]

That's like saying a Moto GP bike is worse than a Vespa because it takes more skill to not kill yourself on the former when you put the hammer down despite it obviously being better in every way than a moped except boring **** like "practicality"

Scrub argument is scrub.

 

Don't mention Moto GP bikes and scrub arguments in the same post, my nerves can't stand it. Not sure Rossi was right to actually voice his allegations against Marquez but he certainly has a point. Overheating front tyre my arse.

 

Um, yeah, sorry.... CLAYMOAR!!!

[._.]

Also, all the people who say the Claymore OHK mooks with bodyshots... Are we even playing the same game? With the same gun?

honestly. I can only 1hk bodyshot some mooks with the human soldier and that's with disruptor rounds, most mooks require a headshot.

[Fuenf789]

...in that specific sport Tyres r a black art -ie sachsenenring has 10 left and 3 right, the tyres are cut asymmetric for the track that they'll be driven on. Etc etc pp. But you right, we should not mix a ***motorcycle*** championship with a ***scooter*** brand in the same post

[Deerber]

honestly. I can only 1hk bodyshot some mooks with the human soldier and that's with disruptor rounds, most mooks require a headshot.

 

Of course you can kill mooks with a bodyshot. You just need a metric shitton of weapon damage bonus, which pretty much means you're using an infiltrator. So is that it, everyone talking down the High Lord only ever used it on a lolfiltrator? That would explain a lot, I guess...

[Quarian Master Race]

Also, all the people who say the Claymore OHK mooks with bodyshots... Are we even playing the same game? With the same gun?

Unshielded gold mooks obviously do, but they also die to the Wraith with bodyshots. For shielded mooks, both Wraith and Claymoar will reliably kill with bodyshots given damage buffs like Tactical Cheat or Adrenaline Rush, so that's a zero sum game (though it must be noted that it is much easier to accurately fit 2 wraith shots into Cloak's 2.5 second damage duration). For other builds with the Claymoar, it depends. Let me use the example of one of our favourite builds, the QFE, vs a simple gold Centurion

So, Mr. Centurion has 1860 health and 1637.5 shields for a total of 3497.5 hitpoints

Using This build (full passives with weapon damage at 6, level 3 amp and level 4 ammo) we can already tell the claim is bullshіt at least for a single shot with no other buffs. It takes 4.8 (so 5) pellets to break the shield, leaving just 3 pellets to do 1325.75 damage (no I didn't bother to account for the 25% damage from the 5th pellet that will get through shieldgate because OTOH it is like 50 damage and would make no difference). Mr Centurion is still standing there for a full 3 seconds after you fire in order to take all this damage too, mind you.

What about with Cryo Blast? This brings Claymoar's damage up by 25%. It will now take 3.8 (4) pellets to break shieldgate, leaving you with 4 other pellets to kill. Assuming they all hit, it will be good for a combined total of 1842 impact damage. So basically, he still isn't dead until a single tick of the remaining 515 damage worth of incendiary DOT kills him after a full second.

Keep in mind that the Centurion is the weakest of the 4 common shielded mooks (Marauder has another 200 hitpoints, Captain has around 400 more before being possessed, nevermind after, and the scumbag Hunter has 900 more). Also keep in mind that the only way you can OHK Mr. Centurion with a bodyshot is by hitting him with cryo blast and all 8 pellets. So, if he dodges your projectile, you aren't killing him at all. If you are beyond a few meters when you take the shot and a single pellet goes wide, you aren't killing him at all. If you are out of sequence with Cryo debuff (because its cooldown assuming weight glitch is working properly is 2.54, incinerate's is 4.06 and both have travel time as well, while Claymoar reload cancel duration is 1.97 seconds IIRC) or used it to freeze a nearby unshielded mook (which is the smart thing to do when facing multiple opponents for the extra CC and a faster kill rate), you aren't killing him at all with that bodyshot.

But yeah, with about 50 strings attached you can kill some mooks in one bodyshot on gold with some builds that the Wraith can't do the same against. 

[Teh_Ocelot]

After I cloak > PM > shoot your ass, it's a OHK. That's really all that matters, right?

[wass12]

That's like saying a Moto GP bike is worse than a Vespa because it takes more skill to not kill yourself on the former when you put the hammer down despite it obviously being better in every way than a moped except boring shіt like "practicality"

Scrub argument is scrub.

Practicality is an important, if not the most important aspect of a weapon's quality. High damage or awesome animations don't matter too much if you can't hit the enemy or keep getting killed while trying to reload. Lack of practicality makes using the weapon, at best, a novelty or a self-imposed challenge.

That is, unless you rate weapons not by how efficiently/quickly/safely/conveniently they can kill enemies, but by some loosely defined "awesomeness" factor. Even then, that brings the Claymore up against the Reegar carbine. And while the Claymore can kill lesser enemies in a single trigger press, the Reegar can evaporate them with armor-piercing incendiary lightning. ARMOR-PIERCING INCENDIARY LIGHTNING! (Oh, and it's DPS blows the Claymore out of the water too.)

 

To be fair, these two require a very different skillset and playstyle. The Claymore is all about twitch aiming and executing what is basically a very boring QTE. The Reegar doesn't give a flying f*** about the player's reaction time. Instead it rewards knowledge (and prediction) of enemy behavior, proper positioning and use of tactics to "juggle" enemies. You may consider these skills lesser to twitch aiming, but if you really think that reaction time is the pinnacle of all skills gaming related... well, I consider that the real scrubbery.

[Erik the Quarian 3.0]

Claymore and Wraith are both easy to aim and score headshots with, they deal huge damage, are not susceptible to bad effects of lag like the projectile weapons, and accurate even at range. Shotguns in general are some of the least skill intensive and easiest guns in this game to use. I like both, and will use both, though I'd be far from calling either my favorite and in fact think they both can get quite boring if I use them across a wide range of kits. 

 

That aside, even if using the Claymore were some great exercise in  "skill", the vocal minority that hates the Claymore or generally prefers the wraith contains some of the best players of this game. I don't think not being "skilled" enough to use the Claymore is the problem.