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Are the people that turn into Husks dead or aware and concious as a husk?


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#26
SwobyJ

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Nothing left of the people.

 

Replaced entirely (as far as we can tell, or at least 99%) with technology.

 

Maybe something of 'genetic essence' left in organic material, but nothing conscious.

 

Husks are but low-intelligence extensions of a particular Reaper's will.

 

THEORY: Whatever 'code' of the 'original person' might still be uploaded into a Reaper and/or their consciousness, but we're unable to know how it works and what it results in, as we're not allowed closer understanding of Reapers. But if Reapers really have a mentality of only 'harvesting' people and 'saving' them, I find it hard to think that they're 'waste' any lives outside of from direct 'warfare' when all other methods to funnel people into the harvest fails. Or maybe not.

In any case, whether those people are real people would also depend on similar thinking on whether Control Shepard is the real thing.

 

 

In any contemporary popular opinion, the person is dead when their body is huskified. More and more is replaced until its not just some parts of thinking and feeling and doing what are replaced, but everything we'd consider essential to being an alive, organic, human. Husks are left to terrify a population into quick compliance and be material that is fodder to distract enemy forces so they can't commit as much to freeing civilians and destroying Reapers. There is very likely no 'trapped person' in there screaming to get out. When its in full husk phase, there's nothing left of that single person to save, in terms we'd normally consider. Maybe in another way inside those Reapers we're blowing up though.

 

 

A Synthesis Husk is not the old person, but I'd say its possible that they may have an element of themselves that could recall, in a way, some part of being of humanity. Especially if Synthesis Reapers shared all information on the harvested, husks might even regain a sort of neo-sentience and work from there.

 

 

Of course, on initial viewing of the endings, it all looks and sounds horrific. I totally admit this. But we only get to see the initial outcome of Synthesis, not possible later futures of husks regaining their 'selves' and modifying themselves 'back' into a neo-version of what they were as humans.

 

 

TLDR; person dead and not aware when they get to the husk phase. There just might be more to it than that, especially if you're willing to entertain concepts of trans/posthumanist immortality. At least, the Reapers do.

 

Regardless of anything else and having an open mind, the Reapers force themselves on us without any permission. That's what Shepard, no matter the form of him/her, fights for. The freedom to choose. Choose something. Just anything past this extermination cycle. He succeeds at that so we'll at the very least never see mass 'reaping' ever again. Everything up to it, maybe, but not this. No more mass huskification and puppeteering of dead bodies.



#27
iM3GTR

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Dragon's teeth were definitely not a Geth invention based on Reaper tech. During Mass Effect 1's 'UNC: Missing Survey Team' mission, it says

 

"How this technology came to be buried so far from Geth Territory is a mystery."

 

It must be the Reapers who put it there. Plus, in the Trailer for ME3, husks can be seen descending and rolling off Dragon's teeth.

 

(This has probably been said, seeing as I haven't read all the replies yet)



#28
KaiserShep

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I'd like the conversation a cannibal's humans arm has with its batarian body.


Batarian: I've always wanted to do this.

Human: Wait, what are you do[scratches crack of ass]mmfffffgraughfmmkrraugh!

Batarian: So good.
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#29
rossler

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They are alive, but mindless. Unable to think for themselves or perform actions by their own choosing. Essentially under Reaper control.



#30
Abedsbrother

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As far as I'm aware, those that indoctrinated forcefully and quickly (eg via dragon's teeth) are basically killed and their body used as a host for all the synthetic material.  Paul Grayson was kind of in between normal indoctrination and a husk by the end of the books and he was alive and aware for most of it - he had nannites injected and the process accelerated using red sand.

Yay, someone who has read the books!

 

The OP's question is answered in Mass Effect Retribution. Grayson is fully aware of what is happening from the beginning to the end of Retribution (no story spoilers). I don't think the indoctrination process kills per se - Grayson is proof of that - but (I speculate) the speed at which it happens on the spikes kills the subject's consciousness and renders them useless as anything but a mindless husk. But it is possible that is not true. Grayson's slow indoctrination left him mentally lucid. The speedy indoctrination of the spikes may not have killed, it may simply have left its victims prey to a thousand howling terrors in their head as their minds try to grasp what is happening. The more unstable the husks are, the more easily a Reaper can control them (hence the use of red sand on Grayson to destabilize him and make him more exposed to the indoctrination).

 

The Synthesis ending would have had a lot more impact if the husk's apparent sudden awareness were accompanied by a time-lapsed re-transformation into a normal organic. (Well, normal except for the glowing green eyes.) 

Though this raises all kinds of problems for the Reaper constructs. 

Cannibal (its arm flies away): "wtf" 

Arm: "sorry, I'm off to re-join my human who is two systems away"

Could have been cathartic to see a Praetorian self-destruct as all the victims inside it are resurrected. #ShepardIsSpaceJesusConfirmed


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#31
Dantriges

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Is there actually any indoctrination in the huskification process? Thing sounds more like throw someone onto a spike/chamber, inject with stuff, whatever, let him die, reanimate with nano



#32
Abedsbrother

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Is there actually any indoctrination in the huskification process? Thing sounds more like throw someone onto a spike/chamber, inject with stuff, whatever, let him die, reanimate with nano

In Retribution, the husk conversion process is started, and because of that, indoctrination commences - almost simultaneously. Huskification makes indoctrination possible, but obviously it's not the only path to indoctrination.



#33
Undead Han

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Also consider the fact that some humans were melded together by the Collectors/Reapers to form Scions and Praetorians.  If I remember, Scions had at least 3 humans fused together and Praetorians had up to 20.  Imagine each human gaining individual awareness and being forced to live like that.

Human Centipede **** to the max right there.

 

...and yet the two lead writers apparently thought Synthesis was the best ending.

 

:blink:



#34
Abedsbrother

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...and yet the two lead writers apparently thought Synthesis was the best ending.

 

:blink:

Because I believe Synthesis was written to specifically be Shepard's ending. Which imo displays a fundamental misunderstanding of Shepard.

(Like Destroy is Anderson's solution, and Control is the Illusive Man's solution)



#35
fraggle

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Because I believe Synthesis was written to specifically be Shepard's ending. Which imo displays a fundamental misunderstanding of Shepard.

(Like Destroy is Anderson's solution, and Control is the Illusive Man's solution)

 

I thought it's rather the Catalyst's ending. Of course Shepard was "ready" for it, but I think they considered it as best ending because technically it is supposed to be a happy end. It drops ideas like peace, understanding, everyone being able to co-exist without threat or fear of annihilation. The ultimate solution for both organic and synthetic life. I can see why they figured it'd be the best ending. I just don't agree :D



#36
Abedsbrother

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I thought it's rather the Catalyst's ending. Of course Shepard was "ready" for it, but I think they considered it as best ending because technically it is supposed to be a happy end. It drops ideas like peace, understanding, everyone being able to co-exist without threat or fear of annihilation. The ultimate solution for both organic and synthetic life. I can see why they figured it'd be the best ending. I just don't agree :D

Reason I said it was supposed to be "Shepard's ending" is because of how the endings are portrayed prior to choosing them. I always choose Destroy, because f**k the Catalyst. 



#37
aegof

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For Synthesis, I choose to believe that all the Reaper troops are mentally fully restored, but remain exactly as Reapery.  Husks, Brutes, Banshees, Cerberus troops, Praetorians and Collectors and all the others, trapped forever in perfect, horrible forms with exact memories of everything they ever did to the still-living.

 

I choose to believe this because it is a perfectly valid speculation based on the ending presented, and because I think it's funny to picture a Cannibal and his human arm going out to complain about those Reaper jerks over drinks.



#38
SwobyJ

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Is there actually any indoctrination in the huskification process? Thing sounds more like throw someone onto a spike/chamber, inject with stuff, whatever, let him die, reanimate with nano

 

It is super rapid, relatively crude, cybernetic indoctrination.

 

AKA metal puppet making. Puppets that are not directly controlled, but made into entities that passively work exactly as to what the Reapers would have wanted them to do, as far as mindless husks can.

 

For most of the series, it can be assumed that this is purely to make fodder to stop/distract organic forces.

 

But I do look at Leviathan DLC and wonder if instead, one's consciousness is being 'saved'/'uploaded' into a Reaper, making the Reapers still 'feel good' about what they're doing to people.



#39
SwobyJ

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Reason I said it was supposed to be "Shepard's ending" is because of how the endings are portrayed prior to choosing them. I always choose Destroy, because f**k the Catalyst. 

Synthesis is the 'do all the things for ME1 and ME3, max reputation, huge War Assets, max characters alive, expressing not just ideals of fighting and saving but improving' Shepard path.

 

Quite specific, but I'm sure one can wiggle around a bunch of those unnecessary qualifiers I listed.

 

Or Breath Destroy is the path. Especially if you're an ITer or something. Haha.

 

Almost all basic game/trilogy is Destroy. Lots of lore on top, and secondary content adds up to nearly or equal Control. Synthesis is... certainly barely covered prior to ME3, and back then, almost never in a remotely good light, but only, barely, conceptually.

 

Leap of faith.


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#40
SwobyJ

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For Synthesis, I choose to believe that all the Reaper troops are mentally fully restored, but remain exactly as Reapery.  Husks, Brutes, Banshees, Cerberus troops, Praetorians and Collectors and all the others, trapped forever in perfect, horrible forms with exact memories of everything they ever did to the still-living.

 

I choose to believe this because it is a perfectly valid speculation based on the ending presented, and because I think it's funny to picture a Cannibal and his human arm going out to complain about those Reaper jerks over drinks.

 

lol

 

Somehow, it seems like Synthesis would bring a great understanding between all peoples and new-peoples and oneness of all, at least on the technological level, so organics would 'get' the motivations of the cycle and Reapers would 'get' how much organics resist it and husks would 'get' how to exist as more than a husk.

 

But in order for this interpretation to seem more correct, there might have had to be a slide showing the farther future of 'husks' (all entities really get ''s around their designation now; everything is some 'Synthesized' whole really) coming into new, and possibly better aesthetic forms. That organics may be getting more neo-husky but husks may be getting more neo-humany.



#41
Madfox11

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Doesn't Sheppard run across miners in ME1 and ME2 who found a Reaper artifact and were turned into husks without the Dragon's Teeth? The logs certainly suggest indoctrination first. Mind you, I vaguely recall banter suggesting they look different. So if technology had been as advanced when those were made as with ME3 we might have had them look like the Cerebrus soldiers in ME3.



#42
oddball_bg

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Think of them as cyber zombies imo.