39 réponses à ce sujet

[magic713]

I think that we should be able to see what an everyday life Qunari society looks like, outside of their military and espionage links. I'd like to see first hand how people live under the Qun. Mostly, we only see the soldiers and the spies of the Qun, which creates an antagonistic view since we only get an outsider perception, but I think it would be interesting to see how the non-military and non-espionage people live by the Qun and see why they admire it.

 

It would probably mean going to a place like Par Volen or some Qun society, but I would really like to remove some of this negative image created due to only see the soldiers and spies of the Qunari.

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

Iron Bull describes life in the Qun.

He stated that a baker in Val Reaoux(sp) is the same as in Seheron.

They both get up, worry about if eggs will be delivered on time, if the ppl will come early when it's fresh and buy a lot, or wait for hours until it's stale and not buy much if any.

Basically, other than the Military and Priesthood, I think the everyday life would be about the same. I'm not sure how money works in their culture as it seems pretty socialist.

[leaguer of one]

Iron Bull describes life in the Qun.

He stated that a baker in Val Reaoux(sp) is the same as in Seheron.

They both get up, worry about if eggs will be delivered on time, if the ppl will come early when it's fresh and buy a lot, or wait for hours until it's stale and not buy much if any.

Basically, other than the Military and Priesthood, I think the everyday life would be about the same. I'm not sure how money works in their culture as it seems pretty socialist.

They have no money. Every one are given rations. It's a need based society.

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

They have no money. Every one are given rations. It's a need based society.

I'm not doubting that, as it makes sense, but is that in a codex or World of Thedas book?

[The Baconer]

The negative image doesn't really have anything to do with the lifestyle of the average worker, scientist, historian etc. Sure, there are a lot of 'muh freedom' and 'blah blah Qun drone' arguments being made here but that rings pretty hollow in Thedas. 

 

On the other hand, the Triumvirate (or at least the Ariqun and Arishok) have gone to great lengths in justifying the demonization of the Qunari, primarily in how the Qun is conventionally spread to the uninitiated (by way of the Antaam or the plots of their own Gestapo), and other unwholesome practices, like the usage of Qamek and the treatment of mages... and breeding programs. I have no problem in hating that, and that isn't going to change. 

[QueenCrow]

I'm with you, magic713.  It's easy for the writers to write demonizing characters for players to recognize as blatantly bad then task players with killing them.  But I think it's more interesting and a better exercise of player individuality for the developers to let us see humanizing characters too.  It's one of the reasons I appreciated The Iron Bull.  I got to see a piece of Qunari culture that had been previously unavailable and I want more - non-military as you've suggested.

 

I hope the writers challenge us as players to assess and decide rather than stuff an answer down our throats by providing evil caricatures of military aggression without providing more than a dim glimpse of anything else.

 

P.S.  Likewise, I have not forgotten that monstrous Tevinter f*ckup Corypheus, and I haven't forgotten the number of Tevinter Venatori who swarmed south ready to kill and destroy the world in hopes of a higher rung on the supreme Tevinter ladder.  Most of DA:I was spent fighting them.  I'd like to see more humanizing Tevinter characters than just Dorian and Felix.  Otherwise, I don't think I can shake the feeling that it would be best if Tevinter and the Qunari destroyed each other.

[LightningPoodle]

I'd love to see it. Out of all of the different cultures, besides that of Rivain, I think Qunari Society would be the most fascinating place to experience.

[Big I]

It would probably mean going to a place like Par Volen or some Qun society, but I would really like to remove some of this negative image created due to only see the soldiers and spies of the Qunari.

 

Some people in Rivain practice the Qun (Isabella's mother converted to it). I think there's a city in northern Rivain that's still ruled by the qunari, Kont-ar I believe.

 

 

What I would really like is to sit down with a tamassran and actually have an in depth discussion about what the Qun is and how it works. Every qunari or tal vashoth we've ever come across, including two Arishoks and three high ranking Ben Hassrath, have rejected explaining the qun. It's very annoying. It's like Andrastians refusing to talk about the Chant of Light, or dwarves not talking about the Ancestors.

[straykat]

Iron Bull describes life in the Qun.

He stated that a baker in Val Reaoux(sp) is the same as in Seheron.

 

Except his name is basically "Baker". And so is the guy next to him. And so on.

 

While Orlais at least has a Gerard, Henri, and Louise. And they probably get to dress, crap, and sleep when and how they want to. Possibly even having friends, raising their own children, and having sex in somewhere other than a gloriied religious whorehouse. Perhaps even love, if they're lucky. And their children even get to run around and play and just generally enjoy life like most of the billions of real kids do. And they get to do all of this with the benefit of not having some towering social retard being a debbie downer acting like a Cop to every goddamn thing in their life.

 

Yeah, other than that. Not so different

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

Except his name is basically "Baker". And so is the guy next to him. And so on.

 

While Orlais at least has a Gerard, Henri, and Louise. And they probably get to dress, crap, and sleep when and how they want to. Possibly even having friends, raising their own children, and having sex in somewhere other than a gloriied religious whorehouse. Perhaps even love, if they're lucky. And their children even get to run around and play and just generally enjoy life like most of the billions of real kids do. And they get to do all of this with the benefit of not having some towering social retard being a debbie downer acting like a Cop to every goddamn thing in their life.

 

Yeah, other than that. Not so different

This sounds like a pleasant place.... especially the religious whorehouse!!

Hopefully they don't have ration cards or something for it!

[straykat]

This sounds like a pleasant place.... especially the religious whorehouse!!

Hopefully they don't have ration cards or something for it!

 

More power to you then. I wouldn't stop anyone from going there.

 

That's another thing that makes me not a Qunari fan btw. I wouldn't force you to accept my ways. I'd just laugh about it.

[SentinelMacDeath]

Communism always sounds good in theory and that's basically what the Qun is. Taking a peek behind the curtains of the not every day life of the Qunari leaders would be interesting 

[straykat]

Communism always sounds good in theory and that's basically what the Qun is. Taking a peek behind the curtains of the not every day life of the Qunari leaders would be interesting 

 

It's like a mix of Platonic idealism (in the sense that it has the same deluded need to categorize objects in their "true", metaphysical forms), along with Plato's proposed arrangement of citizens and classes..

 

Not to mention that Soviet hockey players still knew what having fun was. Or musicians. Or whatever. They still knew how to enjoy life, even under that system. Because they were still essentially human. While this is just alien. At best, the only humans like this have depleted serotonin levels where they have little affect at all. The types of people who act and stoic and scoff or bewilder when socializing around any kind of enjoyment. Too dry for their own good. They're broken. Sten was so confused he couldn't even understand kids running around playing "tag".

 

Anyone who wants to be like this is like that weird kid in the TNG episode that befriended Data and tried to imitate him. And then even Data started thinking he was an idiot.

[Ashagar]

I remember Solas noting a fade memory of a qunari baker secretly adding a ingredient a bakery item, something that would get them in major trouble because it was  against the Qun to do so. I always keep in mind that the Qunari are a fantasy counterpart version of 1984's society complete with thought police and the ministries of love and truth who's treatment of mages make the worse southern chantry and templar abuses look nice in comparison. So no I don't really care for seeing Qunari society unless it at the head of a army overthrowing it.

[KaiserShep]

I'd be curious about how exactly we'd see the inner workings of Qunari society, since foreigners are unwelcome. We'd have to be a spy or something, though this does provide an opportunity for our PC to play pretend, brush up on Qunlat and seem the part. That might actually be cool if done right.

[Heimdall]

I'd be curious about how exactly we'd see the inner workings of Qunari society, since foreigners are unwelcome. We'd have to be a spy or something, though this does provide an opportunity for our PC to play pretend, brush up on Qunlat and seem the part. That might actually be cool if done right.

That could be cool.

 

I was thinking there could also be a sequence where we get captured and a Tamassran comes to talk to us about it.

 

Though this is partly because I'm imagining a scenario where the qunari PC is a former slave that was taken from the Qun at a young age, and this would be his/her old Tamassran.

[Arvaarad]

That could be cool.

I was thinking there could also be a sequence where we get captured and a Tamassran comes to talk to us about it.

Though this is partly because I'm imagining a scenario where the qunari PC is a former slave that was taken from the Qun at a young age, and this would be his/her old Tamassran.

I was about to say "what about mages?", but then I considered how metal it would be to get stitch-scars as an ex-saarebas PC. It could be like choosing vallaslin or casteless tattoos... but way more badass. I can imagine various degrees, all the way from "tiny holes, almost closed" to "I straight-up ripped them out".

(and yes, I realize this would be moot if the PC left young enough that their magic hadn't developed, but let me dream)

[straykat]

I remember Solas noting a fade memory of a qunari baker secretly adding a ingredient a bakery item, something that would get them in major trouble because it was  against the Qun to do so. I always keep in mind that the Qunari are a fantasy counterpart version of 1984's society complete with thought police and the ministries of love and truth who's treatment of mages make the worse southern chantry and templar abuses look nice in comparison. So no I don't really care for seeing Qunari society unless it at the head of a army overthrowing it.

 

That's hilarious. I never caught much in this game.. but the baker's small rebelliion sums it all up for me. It goes back to the Platonic idealism I mentioned above. It's worse than anything communistic. Everything has to live up to some essential/metaphysical form.

 

I could even forget their mage issues, but that alone is what makes them a nightmare. I could just say this from own personal view as a musician. People who don't appreciate creativity and need strict definitions and guidance like this are fools. Like they live in a world where all chairs should look the same or something.

[Arvaarad]

That's hilarious. I never caught much in this game.. but the baker's small rebelliion sums it all up for me. It goes back to the Platonic idealism I mentioned above. It's worse than anything communistic. Everything has to live up to some essential/metaphysical form.

I could even forget their mage issues, but that alone is what makes them a nightmare. I could just say this from own personal view as a musician. People who don't appreciate creativity and need strict definitions and guidance like this are fools. Like they live in a world where all chairs should look the same or something.

I wouldn't say the Qunari are stifling creativity so much as pointing it at different things. They're more technologically advanced than any other Thedosian civilization, full stop. They invented gunpowder. They figured out ways of mining lyrium without needing dwarves. They've constructed larger ships than anyone else on the continent, marvels of structural engineering. You don't create that kind of stuff without, well, creativity.

There's this idea that creating something of practical value somehow poisons the creativity required to create it. There's beauty and elegance in "impractical" things. But we can acknowledge that without rejecting the beauty and elegance of practical things.

Engineers get the same rush from finding elegant solutions to difficult constraints, as a musician can get from composing a particularly beautiful bar of music. Engineering is as far from "just following instructions" as painting is from paint-by-numbers.

I would suggest that maybe, to them, inventors and engineers are valued the same way that musicians and artists are to us.

[straykat]

I wouldn't say the Qunari are stifling creativity so much as pointing it at different things. They're more technologically advanced than any other Thedosian civilization, full stop. They invented gunpowder. They figured out ways of mining lyrium without needing dwarves. They've constructed larger ships than anyone else on the continent, marvels of structural engineering. You don't create that kind of stuff without, well, creativity.

There's this idea that creating something of practical value somehow poisons the creativity required to create it. There's beauty and elegance in "impractical" things. But we can acknowledge that without rejecting the beauty and elegance of practical things.

Engineers get the same rush from finding elegant solutions to difficult constraints, as a musician can get from composing a particularly beautiful bar of music. Engineering is as far from "just following instructions" as painting is from paint-by-numbers.

I would suggest that maybe, to them, inventors and engineers are valued the same way that musicians and artists are to us.

 

It just shows their hypocrisy to me.

 

Somewhere along the way, someone broke the rules and had a creative "aha" moment.. but the Qunari are also utilitarian if it benefits their ability for conquest. Yet at the end of the day, they still act like little bitches about a loaf of bread. Or whatever it is that baker is churning out.

[Arvaarad]

It just shows their hypocrisy to me.

Somewhere along the way, someone broke the rules and had a creative "aha" moment.. but the Qunari are also utilitarian if it benefits their ability for conquest. Yet at the end of the day, they still act like little bitches about a loaf of bread. Or whatever it is that baker is churning out.

But... none of them gave a crap about the baker's extra-sugary bread. They didn't clap the baker in irons or send her to reeducation. The baker got a thrill out of breaking a trivial guideline that no one was going to punish her for anyway. More power to her. Sounds like everyone got to be happy.

And with respect to baking, in particular, how is "regulating the ingredients of bread" any more heinous than the ingredient specifications in any bread factory in the modern world? It's not like people who work at bread factories are having their creativity cruelly oppressed because they have an ingredient list to follow.

[Ashagar]

I wouldn't say the Qunari are stifling creativity so much as pointing it at different things. They're more technologically advanced than any other Thedosian civilization, full stop. They invented gunpowder. They figured out ways of mining lyrium without needing dwarves. They've constructed larger ships than anyone else on the continent, marvels of structural engineering. You don't create that kind of stuff without, well, creativity.

There's this idea that creating something of practical value somehow poisons the creativity required to create it. There's beauty and elegance in "impractical" things. But we can acknowledge that without rejecting the beauty and elegance of practical things.

Engineers get the same rush from finding elegant solutions to difficult constraints, as a musician can get from composing a particularly beautiful bar of music. Engineering is as far from "just following instructions" as painting is from paint-by-numbers.

I would suggest that maybe, to them, inventors and engineers are valued the same way that musicians and artists are to us.

 

There really isn't any indication though that the qunari have advanced since they arrived as they arrived with cannons, dreadnoughts and other technologies, its seems more likely to me they got their technology from the Kossith before they got kicked out by them. They certainly try to make sure the locals don't advance and lessen their advantage by sending out death squads to kill local inventors.

[straykat]

But... none of them gave a crap about the baker's extra-sugary bread. They didn't clap the baker in irons or send her to reeducation. The baker got a thrill out of breaking a trivial guideline that no one was going to punish her for anyway. More power to her. Sounds like everyone got to be happy.

And with respect to baking, in particular, how is "regulating the ingredients of bread" any more heinous than the ingredient specifications in any bread factory in the modern world? It's not like people who work at bread factories are having their creativity cruelly oppressed because they have an ingredient list to follow.

 

It doesn't matter if they got put in chains to me. It's just the fact that any of this is even considered.

 

I'm not going to bother with the last question. I used to not mind going back and forth with people on things like this, but I can tell now you're going to be exasperating.  So long. No hard feelings.

[DuskWanderer]

Would like to see Qunari society burn. 

[Lumix19]

It's like a mix of Platonic idealism (in the sense that it has the same deluded need to categorize objects in their "true", metaphysical forms), along with Plato's proposed arrangement of citizens and classes..

Not to mention that Soviet hockey players still knew what having fun was. Or musicians. Or whatever. They still knew how to enjoy life, even under that system. Because they were still essentially human. While this is just alien. At best, the only humans like this have depleted serotonin levels where they have little affect at all. The types of people who act and stoic and scoff or bewilder when socializing around any kind of enjoyment. Too dry for their own good. They're broken. Sten was so confused he couldn't even understand kids running around playing "tag".

Anyone who wants to be like this is like that weird kid in the TNG episode that befriended Data and tried to imitate him. And then even Data started thinking he was an idiot.

There's a mix of stoicism in there which I recall the Romans subscribing to.