24 réponses à ce sujet

[Redemption2407]

1st option in the 101% probability of Bioware awful endings scale is most likely ME3 ending like this person said:
http://dragonage.wik...ll_be_ME3_stile

But then I thought of another possibility: you kill Solas (even if you try to save him) but do not stop the veil collapsing resulting in a 100% chance of Sandal's prophecy happening which makes sense. DA5 will be a Brand New World...

..or a thousand years in the future where you have to prevent the Old Gods from creating a race of beings to find a solution for the organic x synthetic conflict in the galaxy.

BTW 100% fact DA5 will feature a Titan x Reaper fight. Discuss.

[thats1evildude]

What if DA4 doesn't involve Solas at all? He did sort of imply he was taking a break.

[Redemption2407]

What if DA4 doesn't involve Solas at all? He did sort of imply he was taking a break.

Jokes aside I actually think that's how it is going to be. BUT as a build up to DA5. I think chances are most of DA4 if not all will be focused on parallel quests (considering Solas the main, but they would be main quests when it comes to the next PC), a story that will make fighting Solas possible because it is no small task, not at all. AND we know Bioware won't make anything easy, DA stories are about the conflicts that are not "The Conflict", like DAO gathering armies and fighting Loghain is way more than fighting Darkspawn and the Archdemon. So yeah, I think it is almost clear we are not gonna fight Solas head on and we will probably not find him in DA4 at all.

[Ashagar]

I think the main focus will be on the renewed Tevinter-Qunari war especially if Tevinter falls, Thadas will be enslaved by the Qun. Countless people will be brainwashed in reeducation camps, countless others will have their minds permanently broken or will simply be killed as corrupt for being mages.

[Redemption2407]

I think the main focus will be on the renewed Tevinter-Qunari war especially if Tevinter falls, Thadas will be enslaved by the Qun. Countless people will be brainwashed in reeducation camps, countless others will have their minds permanently broken or will simply be killed as corrupt for being mages.

If they go with a clearly "evil" or "wrong" Qunari society it will be VERY disappointing. VERY. Thedas is made of shades of gray. Greywardens, Loghain, Templars, Mages, Solas, everything is blurred when it comes to who is friend or foe, who is savior and who is destroyer. If they REALLY present Qunari as an enemy to invade and conquer Thedas then Bioware is no better than americans promoting the end of musulims saying they brainwash people into servitude and stuff.
I hate the Qunari, for me they are 101% evil and wrong, but I like Bioware trying to make it look less awful than it is, like they did with templars or even Darkspawn (in Awakening). To an extent you can even symphatize with Corypheus or Solas so they better make a "likeable" Qun or at least a divided one, show that (like in Trespasser) some want the invasion but it is not as simple as it looks. Because seriously, can you picture a recent Bioware game with a "true villain"? An evil one, plain and simple? Not even the reapers.

[thats1evildude]

An evil one, plain and simple?

 

Corypheus.

[Neria]

Rendon Howe.

[thats1evildude]

Bann Vaughan from DAO. Ser Alrik from DA2. Imshael from DAI.

 

I'm pretty sure they're trying to step away from any morally ambigious depiction of the darkspawn. Regardless of how things finished out with the Architect, they've been solidly categorized as monsters over the last two games.

[Ashagar]

Well if nothing else sometimes people really are extremely evil and people would rather believe otherwise. I am reminded of the depiction of the Nazi commander in Schindler's list and how people complained he was over the top cartoonishly evil however the directors had actually vastly toned down how evil he compared to how he was in real life and gave him good traits he didn't have.

 

Me I find its nice to face down something that is really evil and not just shades of grey because sometimes the monsters in the dark really do exist.

[QueenCrow]

.

 

Me I find its nice to face down something that is really evil and not just shades of grey because sometimes the monsters in the dark really do exist.

 

 

• Solas: You fought the Tal-Vashoth for a long time, Iron Bull, did you not?
• Iron Bull: Every day. I’d kill some of them, they’d kill some of my guys and then I’d kill them some more.
• Solas: No man can kill so many people without breaking inside. To survive, those you fight must become monsters.
• Iron Bull: The ones that kill innocent people, yeah. The rest...I don’t know.
• Solas: The mind does marvelous things to protect itself. 

It seems as if people are anticipating who players might fight in DA4 and getting a jump on rationalizing why they're monsters.

[straykat]

The very minute I even spoke to Solas about spirits, I had flashbacks of Synthesis all over again. Kind of bummed me out. It doesn't seem like I was far off the mark (but I haven't played Trespasser). Seems like something like this could be an ultimate goal for the setting, and I dislike it. I was always attached to it's more mundane parts (like national conflicts and politics). To this day, Loghain stands out to me as one of the best things they've done. Yet it seems the real story of Dragon Age is just more magic.. and ultimately Sandal's prophecy. And big, sweeping themes revealing more and more of the Monomyth of the setting.

[Redemption2407]

Corypheus.

Really? Nope. Corypheus is a misunderstood powerful being who faced the despair of knowing that there is nothing ruling reality. He never made it "because he is evil", inhis mind he is doing good.
 

 

Bann Vaughan from DAO. Ser Alrik from DA2. Imshael from DAI.

 

I'm pretty sure they're trying to step away from any morally ambigious depiction of the darkspawn. Regardless of how things finished out with the Architect, they've been solidly categorized as monsters over the last two games.

 

Vaughan yes but he is not a villain, I mean, not a main enemy, evil people there are lots of them. Imshael is not a person, spirits are embodiments of concepts so obviously some are going to be evil and yes they tend to be more black and white but again, not "the enemy". Alrik well I think you got the idea. And no, I don't think so, they said themselves lots of times how this is a key to thedas the moral ambiguity.
 

 

Rendon Howe.

 

Again, not the enemy. And considering the families history nope I don't think so, some people could think it is fair when you go back to the origin of their "friendship". I don't, I love killing the guy, but I understand hating the Couslands.

[leaguer of one]

The very minute I even spoke to Solas about spirits, I had flashbacks of Synthesis all over again. Kind of bummed me out. It doesn't seem like I was far off the mark (but I haven't played Trespasser). Seems like something like this could be an ultimate goal for the setting, and I dislike it. I was always attached to it's more mundane parts (like national conflicts and politics). To this day, Loghain stands out to me as one of the best things they've done. Yet it seems the real story of Dragon Age is just more magic.. and ultimately Sandal's prophecy. And big, sweeping themes revealing more and more of the Monomyth of the setting.

That very different. Synthesis by itself is not be, it's how it's done. It being forced was the issue and how it was  presented. it would not be the case with da and spirits being that it can only be done with the willing. So if the veil goes down non-volently it would be an issue to people who don't want to be binded to a spirit. And Da has been all about magic and it's effect on the people of thedas from the start. This includes social and political.

[straykat]

That very different. Synthesis by itself is not be, it's how it's done. It being forced was the issue and how it was  presented. it would not be the case with da and spirits being that it can only be done with the willing. So if the veil goes down non-volently it would be an issue to people who don't want to be binded to a spirit. And Da has been all about magic and it's effect on the people of thedas from the start. This includes social and political.

 

I know magic has always been there. That's not what I mean. It's more that I like the elements that were pseudo-historical fiction and played with human dynamics and relationships and war. I dislike high fantasy and epic plots. Be it novels or games. But Bioware seesaws between the two. With DAI however, it's full gusto high fantasy. I was lured by the idea that this was going to be the former... a more political story with lots of intrigue.. but instead it's ultimately more big lore reveals about the Monomyth. Origin of elves and whatnot. And origin of dwarves in DLC. Anything that had something to do with the Chantry turned out to be a delusion and a footnote.

 

As for relating synthesis and spirits, I only relate them because it would change the nature of existence in this world.

[Redemption2407]

Veil collapsing probably means everyone will be mage, like Solas says about days of old, magic as natural as breathing and stuff. But, well, what does this mean? I don't think we know much about spirits back then. Were the elven spirits that became people? Perhaps... Were the humans spirits trapped out of the fade that "Cole'd"? We don't know... Were all the elvhen of old abominations (by the chantry standards)? So we are really in the dark here.

[leaguer of one]

I know magic has always been there. That's not what I mean. It's more that I like the elements that were pseudo-historical fiction and played with human dynamics and relationships and war. I dislike high fantasy and epic plots. Be it novels or games. But Bioware seesaws between the two. With DAI however, it's full gusto high fantasy. I was lured by the idea that this was going to be the former... a more political story with lots of intrigue.. but instead it's ultimately more big lore reveals about the Monomyth. Origin of elves and whatnot. And origin of dwarves in DLC. Anything that had something to do with the Chantry turned out to be a delusion and a footnote.

 

As for relating synthesis and spirits, I only relate them because it would change the nature of existence in this world.

It's still impossible to focus of a purely pseudo-historical plot with the blight around. Added, bw stated many time the  pseudo-historical plot was not the main goal, just a cog in the machine. It's all because of the blight and it's long term effect on the world of thedas politically and socially. Dai in a story more about the truth and what people do with it, that includes warping it around their belief or disdaining it.

[leaguer of one]

Veil collapsing probably means everyone will be mage, like Solas says about days of old, magic as natural as breathing and stuff. But, well, what does this mean? I don't think we know much about spirits back then. Were the elven spirits that became people? Perhaps... Were the humans spirits trapped out of the fade that "Cole'd"? We don't know... Were all the elvhen of old abominations (by the chantry standards)? So we are really in the dark here.

Not really. the current generation will not all be mages, anyone birth after would though.

[Redemption2407]

Not really. the current generation will not all be mages, anyone birth after would though.

Don't think so. If you dream you are connected to the fade, the only thing preventing you from using magic is the veil, isn't that the theory? The way Solas describes it as "a state of nature", using magic would be like touching water or breathing air, no need for specialness. But I understand your reasoning because of the whole "you are either born a mage or not", I just don't see it in a veiless world. But perhaps you are right since all elvhen post veil are mortals.

[leaguer of one]

Don't think so. If you dream you are connected to the fade, the only thing preventing you from using magic is the veil, isn't that the theory? The way Solas describes it as "a state of nature", using magic would be like touching water or breathing air, no need for specialness. But I understand your reasoning because of the whole "you are either born a mage or not", I just don't see it in a veiless world. But perhaps you are right since all elvhen post veil are mortals.

No. Everyone can dream. Not everyone can use magic. The issue is not the veil but environment. If it were true the the veil going down means people use magic no matter what then everyone around the breach would be using magic and well in the dark future in hushed whispers. that's not the case.

[Ariella]

Bann Vaughan from DAO. Ser Alrik from DA2. Imshael from DAI.
 
I'm pretty sure they're trying to step away from any morally ambigious depiction of the darkspawn. Regardless of how things finished out with the Architect, they've been solidly categorized as monsters over the last two games.

Ser Karras from DA2 as well, I'd add Quentin too. Denarius.

I'd also say the Mother was evil, and that pretty much anything Blight touched is corrupt.

The only reason I'd say the basic hurlock/genlock etc aren't evil is you need a mind and a will to be evil. The basic darkspawn popped out of a broodmother don't have those things.

The Architect was a huge mistake, and the faster we forget his existance the better off we'll be.

In fact, let the rest of the seven rot somewhere.

[Ariella]

And lo I had a realization...

The Architect is Dopey of the Seven Magisters.

[Redemption2407]

No. Everyone can dream. Not everyone can use magic. The issue is not the veil but environment. If it were true the the veil going down means people use magic no matter what then everyone around the breach would be using magic and well in the dark future in hushed whispers. that's not the case.

The fact that there were multiple rifts in the future means veil still existed, so, no veil collapsing. In fact rifts means veil stands, so that's why people weren't/aren't using magic everywhere. Solas, while still posing as a normal mage says that if he brings down the veil he can "reshape reality" as if it were nothing, so I'm pretty sure Cory's future has nothing to do with Solas'. But these mechanics we can't know for sure, I stand with my opinion that without the veil everybody will be mage because of two things: Sandal's prophecy and the way Solas talks about the past. But we don't have enough information to be 100% sure of what happens, neither me nor you. And perhaps not even the devs have decided (because in the end, it is whatever they decide with whatever explanation they give).

 

 

Ser Karras from DA2 as well, I'd add Quentin too. Denarius.

I'd also say the Mother was evil, and that pretty much anything Blight touched is corrupt.

The only reason I'd say the basic hurlock/genlock etc aren't evil is you need a mind and a will to be evil. The basic darkspawn popped out of a broodmother don't have those things.

The Architect was a huge mistake, and the faster we forget his existance the better off we'll be.

In fact, let the rest of the seven rot somewhere.

Wow you all have very "black and white" definitions of evil.
Mother was something I can totally relate to, take a being from the harmonious state of being into counsciousness, awareness and the idea of identity, will and purpose IS despairing, totally. So I support her 100%.
Corypheus on the other hand is classic religious -> atheist person that did so because their prayers weren't answered and not because they really understood the impossibility of the existence of a god, seen that in real life lots of times, comes with all the rage (some evolve and become "true" atheists, since the rageous ones end up cursing their gods proving they still believed, like Corypheus praying for Dumat again in the end... so sad).
These things are not evil things, so I don't see darkspawn as evil, not at all. They exist and their nature make them do things that hurt others, like a virus or a cancer, it is not intentional, it is just what they are. No different than a hurricane or an earthquake. Those who have self awareness have difficult struggles against their nature proving that the little will they receive is indeed strong and tend to good, most humans do evil even without compeling while darkpawn manage to resist the evil they are compelled to do.
I like them, in fact I would like to play a "redeemed" darkspawn, I really liked this idea (that started after I played Darkspawn Chronicles and Awakening in the same week back in 2010). A darkspawn race would be awesome, in fact could come easily as a "reskin" DLC. (Yeah I know it will never happen)
If slaughtering hundreds or even thousands of people are what make darkspawn unforgiveably evil than humans are as evil as they are, as are the elves, Solas and so on. In fact given how they lack will they are less evil than "normal" people. I'd rather try my luck with an architect freed darkspawn than with Loghain, Clarel, Duncan and other unblighted and untainted brings.
I THINK, though I'm not sure, that the blight is a natural enemy of life, like death incarnate or something like that. But death is not evil, it is just another state of being. I see a huge problem with the blight being evil, and that is that once you define evil the opposite is also defined so you have good. And if there is good and evil there is morality there and things start to get ugly. I prefer to see the blight and darkspawn as a cancer, it is not evil, but if you don't kill it, it kills you. But I'm pretty sure blighted creatures are not inherently evil except for the song that they hear.
(Did you have the curiosity to find out what the architect does in the books? Sh*t is crazy)

[Ashagar]

Nothing says you can't feel sorry for evil beings and evil characters but it doesn't make them any less evil no matter how sympathetic they are, some things are universally evil no matter the justifications behind their actions.

[thats1evildude]

Actually, it seems that intelligent darkspawn are no less irredeemably evil than their less intelligent brethren, if the Blighted Codex is correct.

[Ariella]

Actually, it seems that intelligent darkspawn are no less irredeemably evil than their less intelligent brethren, if the Blighted Codex is correct.

It's the whole scorpion and fox fable.

Scorpion goes to fox and asks to be carried across a river. Fox refuses initially because Scorpion will sting him but Scorpion promises not too. They get to the middle of the river and, of course, Scorpion stings Fox. Fox asks why because now they will both die as Scorpion will drown. His answer:

It in my nature.