283 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

Samara's personal quest featured swords. Morinth mentioned she'd actively duel people with them, apparently to the death.

[DebatableBubble]

The lore makes little-to-no sense, anyway. I'm all for swords. And Omni-bows. And Halo/Fallout power armor.

[Laughing_Man]

Samara's personal quest featured swords. Morinth mentioned she'd actively duel people with them, apparently to the death.

 

So? And? Therefore? The stories of an Ardat Yakshi are hardly a proof for anything.

[wass12]

So? And? Therefore? The stories of an Ardat Yakshi are hardly a proof for anything.

 

It's never established that Morinth is a compulsive liar, and this information is in accordance with everything else we know about swords in Mass Effect.

[Laughing_Man]

It's never established that Morinth is a compulsive liar, and this information is in accordance with everything else we know about swords in Mass Effect.

 

Not my point.

 

The fetishes of an ardat yakshi that liked to kill people in an elaborate and obscure fashion, say nothing about the effectiveness of a sword in modern combat.

 

And swords are a new addition to ME, what we "know" is almost purely from segregated gameply mechanics.

[Fredward]

The lore makes little-to-no sense, anyway. I'm all for swords. And Omni-bows. And Halo/Fallout power armor.

 

Omni-bows would be so much fun.

[wass12]

Not my point.

 

The fetishes of an ardat yakshi that liked to kill people in an elaborate and obscure fashion, say nothing about the effectiveness of a sword in modern combat.

 

And swords are a new addition to ME, what we "know" is almost purely from segregated gameply mechanics.

 

...and that sole source of information shows them to be effective, although very specialized weapons. So where's the contradiction?

[Fixers0]

...and that sole source of information shows them to be effective, although very specialized weapons. So where's the contradiction?

 

Really, I shoot Phantoms with and puny swords to kingdom come with my asssault rifle with ease.

[Laughing_Man]

...and that sole source of information shows them to be effective, although very specialized weapons. So where's the contradiction?

 

Gameplay is not very similar to actual canon most of the time. (at least in ME)

 

Example: Jack is supposedly a Biotic juggernaut, in a cutscene we see her blowing to bits three YMIR mechs with one biotic explosion.

In gameplay, she is completely lackluster, and her abilities are not very impressive to say the least.

 

Conclusion: Gameplay mechanics should be taken with truck of salt when it comes to their relation to canon.

[Fixers0]

Gameplay is not very similar to actual canon most of the time. (at least in ME)

 

Example: Jack is supposedly a Biotic juggernaut, in a cutscene we see her blowing to bits three YMIR mechs with one biotic explosion.

In gameplay, she is completely lackluster, and her abilities are not very impressive to say the least.

 

Conclusion: Gameplay mechanics should be taken with truck of salt when it comes to their relation to canon.

 

Not to mention when the majority of the examples come from multiplayer, which is at best of questionable cannonity. 

[wass12]

snip

 

This is an example of contradiction between Jack's power in cutscenes and gameplay. You still failed to show any contradiction regarding melee weapons.

[wass12]

Not to mention when the majority of the examples come from multiplayer, which is at best of questionable cannonity. 

 

The existence of MP-only classes, and by extension, their powers, is canon, as of Citadel DLC.

[Laughing_Man]

This is an example of contradiction between Jack's power in cutscenes and gameplay. You still failed to show any contradiction regarding melee weapons.

 

Here you claimed that gameplay is a proof to the effectiveness of swords.

 

\\//

 

...and that sole source of information shows them to be effective, although very specialized weapons. So where's the contradiction?

 

I simply proved that gameplay is not reliable as a proof for what makes sense / Lore correctness.

[wass12]

Here you claimed that gameplay is a proof to the effectiveness of swords.

 

\\//

 

 

I simply proved that gameplay is not reliable as a proof for what makes sense / Lore correctness.

 

You can argue that Codex entries or cutscenes should be prioritized over gameplay in matters of canonicity. Even then, in our case, there is no Codex entry or cutscene that would override the gameplay's depiction of swords. So my point still stands.

[Former_Fiend]

Omni-bows would be so much fun.

 

Oh, they are.

 

[Laughing_Man]

You can argue that Codex entries or cutscenes should be prioritized over gameplay in matters of canonicity. Even then, in our case, there is no Codex entry or cutscene that would override the gameplay's depiction of swords. So my point still stands.

 

Shepard punching that sword in a half is not enough?...

It's supposed to be able to cut through heavy armor, which would require an extremely strong material.

[wass12]

Shepard punching that sword in a half is not enough?...

It's supposed to be able to cut through heavy armor, which would require an extremely strong material.

 

Not neccessarily. Cutting power and brittleness is two different things. Also, Shepard is a superhumanly strong cyborg, whose pistol-whip causes comparable damage to a slash from said swords - so it is only established that said armor is weak against both slashing and blunt damage.

[The Real Pearl #2]

 

Oh, they are.

 

we get an omni bow and not an omni sword? Another reason why the katanas are nonsensical. 

[Former_Fiend]

Shepard punching that sword in a half is not enough?...

It's supposed to be able to cut through heavy armor, which would require an extremely strong material.

 

 

Sharper objects do tend to be breakable when you come at them from the side. That doesn't mean they can't cut. As it stands there are ceramic knives that can slice through human bone with ease, but a blow to the flat of the blade with any kind of force will shatter it. 

 

And so what if the swords are breakable. Guns break, jam, overheat, backfire and explode. Barrels melt and warp and have to be replaced  - a standard machine gun in real life can only fire for about thirty seconds to a minute before it needs a whole new barrel.

 

If we can accept that they can make guns that don't suffer from the same draw backs or at least don't suffer from them as often, why not accept that they can make a blade that can penetrate the armor that they can make?

 

 

we get an omni bow and not an omni sword? Another reason why the katanas are nonsensical. 

 

So essentially you just want a lightsaber, only with an orange shade and more of a holographic coloring?

 

I don't know. I suppose this is my hypocrisy shining through because I am a huge fan of the omni-bow, but a physical blade is less nonsensical to me than an omni-sword would be.  

[wass12]

So essentially you just want a lightsaber, only with an orange shade and more of a holographic coloring?

 

I don't know. I suppose this is my hypocrisy shining through because I am a huge fan of the omni-bow, but a physical blade is less nonsensical to me than an omni-sword would be.  

 

 

Well, the lore for these swords is an empty page. For all we know, the could use nanoscale fabricators to recreate the monomolecular edge for every swing... or contain warp field emitters along the edge that do the actual cutting.

[goishen]

I don't wanna cut anybody any undeserved slack here, but the canon is what BioWare says it is.

[Killroy]

So essentially you just want a lightsaber, only with an orange shade and more of a holographic coloring?
 
I don't know. I suppose this is my hypocrisy shining through because I am a huge fan of the omni-bow, but a physical blade is less nonsensical to me than an omni-sword would be.

It's hypocrisy and bias. An omni-sword that can cut through the advanced armor in ME makes much more sense. Omnitools can produce and launch super-hot fire. Why couldn't they produce a super-hot blade as hard as diamond? They already make small, diamond-hard blades in a fraction of a second.

[KaiserShep]

Really, I shoot Phantoms with and puny swords to kingdom come with my asssault rifle with ease.

If you're lucky or a good enough shot you can snap the sword with the gun.

[Former_Fiend]

It's hypocrisy and bias. An omni-sword that can cut through the advanced armor in ME makes much more sense. Omnitools can produce and launch super-hot fire. Why couldn't they produce a super-hot blade as hard as diamond? They already make small, diamond-hard blades in a fraction of a second.

 

I just don't see why you can't have a pre-fabricated diamond hard blade that can cut through the advanced armor already.

 

It's not like one predates the other in terms of lore; they both debuted in ME3; the omni-blade showed up a few hours earlier before Kai Leng and the phantoms did, but they both debuted in the same game. 

 

It is a bias, I'm not going to dispute that. I prefer melee weapons in fiction - even science fiction - to be physical objects instead of energy projections. Having physical swords and knives that have been manufactured and designed to the point of being able to cut through the armor makes more sense to me than something being instantly "nano fabricated" to spec, perfectly, every time, from nothing.

 

I'm also just trying to wrap my mind around exactly how an omni-sword would work. Omni-blades are rigidly wrist-mounted weapons; you're either essentially punch-stabbing the enemy with it or flailing your arms to slash at them. Would an omni-sword generate from the standard omni-tool? If so, how do you adjust your grip, as it were, on the sword without having to completely refabricate it on the fly? Would an omni-sword have a separate hilt that it would generate from that you'd carry? Then that's just a light saber. Which is fine, but I don't want a light saber.

 

I'm fine with the omni-blades as they are, but extending them into swords just seems wonky to me. An omni-blade doesn't require much skill to use. You push a button when you pull your fist back for a punch, a blade comes out, and your punch has a little extra stab do it. Sword fighting would be something that requires a lot more training than that. 

 

I don't know. I suppose it is hypocritical, but I never said I wasn't a hypocrite. I just prefer the physical blade. 

[KaiserShep]

I don't know. I suppose it is hypocritical, but I never said I wasn't a hypocrite. I just prefer the physical blade. 

 

Sometimes, I wish I could have Shepard sneak up behind Cerberus troopers and jam a regular knife into their necks. There will always be a place for a proper physical blade.