283 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

Sometimes, I wish I could have Shepard sneak up behind Cerberus troopers and jam a regular knife into their necks. There will always be a place for a proper physical blade. 

 

That's certainly an option I'd be in favor of. 

[Killroy]

I just don't see why you can't have a pre-fabricated diamond hard blade that can cut through the advanced armor already.
 
It's not like one predates the other in terms of lore; they both debuted in ME3; the omni-blade showed up a few hours earlier before Kai Leng and the phantoms did, but they both debuted in the same game.

Neither should be able to cut through the armor. The armor in Mass Effect is rigid and designed to withstand impacts as hard as huge explosions. Even with the sharpest cutting edge possible it just doesn't make any sense for a blade to cut through it without being super-heated or vibrating so fast it separates molecular bonds. For a blade without one of those technologies to slash through the armor would require it to be fired out of a mass accelerator since no one could swing it with enough force.
Even the best Japanese katanas can't cut through the armor of today.
 

It is a bias, I'm not going to dispute that. I prefer melee weapons in fiction - even science fiction - to be physical objects instead of energy projections. Having physical swords and knives that have been manufactured and designed to the point of being able to cut through the armor makes more sense to me than something being instantly "nano fabricated" to spec, perfectly, every time, from nothing.

Your bias means you're arguing from a point of illogic. Trying to make sense of something that confronts your bias, however logical or lore-friendly it is, will obviously be hard for you.
 

I'm also just trying to wrap my mind around exactly how an omni-sword would work. Omni-blades are rigidly wrist-mounted weapons; you're either essentially punch-stabbing the enemy with it or flailing your arms to slash at them. Would an omni-sword generate from the standard omni-tool? If so, how do you adjust your grip, as it were, on the sword without having to completely refabricate it on the fly? Would an omni-sword have a separate hilt that it would generate from that you'd carry? Then that's just a light saber. Which is fine, but I don't want a light saber.

Why is a lightsaber-esque sword too much but a space-katana that cut through anything is just fine? Because your bias is illogical and your argument makes no sense because of it.
 

I'm fine with the omni-blades as they are, but extending them into swords just seems wonky to me. An omni-blade doesn't require much skill to use. You push a button when you pull your fist back for a punch, a blade comes out, and your punch has a little extra stab do it. Sword fighting would be something that requires a lot more training than that.

That's an argument against swords. Why would any military or combat-oriented organization spend the time and resources to train people to sword fight when guns are smarter and more effective? It would be like a modern army training soldiers to use slingshots to hurl small stones at enemies.
 

I don't know. I suppose it is hypocritical, but I never said I wasn't a hypocrite. I just prefer the physical blade.

Then just say that. Don't try to pretend you're arguing for something that makes more sense than alternatives.

[Former_Fiend]

My main argument throughout this has been any line we draw is arbitrary because it all comes down to preference, and the line where suspension of disbelief is crossed varies from person to person. My line is apparently omni-swords. 

 

But yeah, sure. Want to add super heating or vibro-blade technology to the sword to make it more believable for you, go ahead. I've never argued against that. In fact I've voiced 1) a belief that that was already kind of the case with these swords to start with, and 2) a support of them explicitly doing something like that. 

 

My only preference is that it be a physical blade that they do it with and not a lightsaber knock off. 

[Killroy]

Because lightsabers are played out but katanas are fresh and original?

[Former_Fiend]

Well, I'd also point out that I haven't been arguing in favor of katanas, specifically. Few pages back I said I wasn't married to the swords being katanas. 

 

Aside from that, I don't think that swords in general, katana's or otherwise, are indicative of trying to ape off of any one thing. I'm not going to dispute that they're popular to the point of overuse, but you see someone using a katana in a modern or futuristic setting and you can complain that they're cliched, but there isn't any one show or movie or game you can point to them trying to be based on that alone.

 

But any kind of laser sword, plasma sword, energy sword, that's very obviously homaging/ripping off Star Wars - which yes, I know, is not the first franchise to use the concept, but it's certainly the most prolific and iconic. And maybe you can argue a star wars shout out or homage is appropriate given that Mass Effect is Bioware's spiritual successor to the KotOR franchise, but still. 

 

Again, it's preference. An arbitrary preference maybe, and illogical preference maybe, but I just prefer a physical blade.

[wass12]

snip

Just out of curiosity: the lore on these blades are currently almost blank. If Bioware decides to further develop them in MEA, what sort of technobabble explanation would make you accept them?

[Laughing_Man]

wass12:

 

I would be able to accept a kind of warp-blade as an explanation as to why it is so effective Vs. armor when it's very easy to simply

make armor strong enough to withstand something like a sword, no matter how over-engineered it is.

(especially since it needs to be very tough anyway, to allow EVA in space, withstand hostile environments, and protect from other weapons.)

 

Even with something like this, closing to melee range is iffy.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Nope, the MP N7 classes were comic book level stuff, not something I want to see.

Yeah, because the rest of Mass Effect, as we all know, was grounded in realism.....

[Fixers0]

Yeah, because the rest of Mass Effect, as we all know, was grounded in realism.....

 

I can't remember ever making such a claim. I just don't want any sword slashing ninjas that can teleport through walls, because it's just pushing it too far and is thematicly inconsistent with the previous descriptions of combat.

[wass12]

wass12:

 

I would be able to accept a kind of warp-blade as an explanation as to why it is so effective Vs. armor when it's very easy to simply

make armor strong enough to withstand something like a sword, no matter how over-engineered it is.

(especially since it needs to be very tough anyway, to allow EVA in space, withstand hostile environments, and protect from other weapons.)

 

Even with something like this, closing to melee range is iffy.

 

Well, we have warp... I mean tech armor and warp rounds, so a warp field over the blade seems plausible. The eezo cores inside would also explain Biotic Slash. I like this theory. About closing in... there's Tactical Cloak, Biotic Charge, and other teleportation-esque abilities for that. Remember what I said about synergy?

[Laughing_Man]

About closing in... there's Tactical Cloak, Biotic Charge, and other teleportation-esque abilities for that. Remember what I said about synergy?

 

Yeah, still, that blade better be able to cut a Krogan in a half to justify the risk of getting in close with it.

[Killroy]

Just out of curiosity: the lore on these blades are currently almost blank. If Bioware decides to further develop them in MEA, what sort of technobabble explanation would make you accept them?

I think space-swords are a silly addition to the series, but if they were super-heated or vibrating so fast they could separate molecular bonds(like the Flash phasing through solid matter) that would make a little sense. But at the same time, what material could hold up to such heat or vibration and be used to slash through absurdly tough armor? It would have to be Unobtainium or some such nonsense.

[KaiserShep]

I think space-swords are a silly addition to the series, but if they were super-heated or vibrating so fast they could separate molecular bonds(like the Flash phasing through solid matter) that would make a little sense. But at the same time, what material could hold up to such heat or vibration and be used to slash through absurdly tough armor? It would have to be Unobtainium or some such nonsense.

You can basically just make up a "space-age" composite material that can do the job. It doesn't have to be any more detailed than that. It wouldn't even be close to the worst offender in terms of magical fictional material. To believe that any electronic device could stay active for centuries or even thousands of years is a much bigger stretch. Batteries in the MEU must contain puppies and magic

[Ahglock]

Yeah, still, that blade better be able to cut a Krogan in a half to justify the risk of getting in close with it.

Lol. I want my preferred style to be overpowered. Not only should they add something as stupid as a sword but it should be the best option when you have one choice in a pile of weapons. At least go with blunt weapons. I can buy a biotic mace in setting.

I can get in melee easily with any class it's not a big risk and for some classes like the vanguard it's where you are pretty much constantly at.

[Killroy]

You can basically just make up a "space-age" composite material that can do the job. It doesn't have to be any more detailed than that. It wouldn't even be close to the worst offender in terms of magical fictional material. To believe that any electronic device could stay active for centuries or even thousands of years is a much bigger stretch. Batteries in the MEU must contain puppies and magic

 

But then why not just make the armor out of the space-age material?

[wass12]

But then why not just make the armor out of the space-age material?

 

Because said material may provide a fantastic cutting edge, but is rather brittle when struck from its flat side (like, you know, an armor plate would be)? A similar example was brought up earlier in this topic, about ceramic knives.

[KaiserShep]

But then why not just make the armor out of the space-age material?

This isn't far from the joke about making the entire airplane out of the same material as the black box. Sure, you could, but provided it doesn't snap apart under any kind of stress, it'll never fly.

[DebatableBubble]

I can't remember ever making such a claim. I just don't want any sword slashing ninjas that can teleport through walls, because it's just pushing it too far and is thematicly inconsistent with the previous descriptions of combat.

You're right. Bring back ME1 combat. No drones, tech armor, shockwave, nova, or charge. The entirety of ME2/ME3 combat is thematically inconsistent with how combat was portrayed in ME1.

[KaiserShep]

It's too bad ME1's combat sucks quads, or as Immortan Joe would put it: Ah! Mediocre!

A hex on the fiend that takes my vanguard powers away.

[DebatableBubble]

I was being sarcastic. I think. My friends tell me I'm bad at sarcasm and conveying sarcasm through text is difficult anyway.

[KaiserShep]

I was being sarcastic. I think. My friends tell me I'm bad at sarcasm and conveying sarcasm through text is difficult anyway.

Never use the sarcmark. It's a sign of weakness!

[Killroy]

Because said material may provide a fantastic cutting edge, but is rather brittle when struck from its flat side (like, you know, an armor plate would be)? A similar example was brought up earlier in this topic, about ceramic knives.

 

This has already been addressed. The cutting edge is almost entirely irrelevant. No one could swing a blade hard enough to slash through the armor. 

[wass12]

You're right. Bring back ME1 combat. No drones, tech armor, shockwave, nova, or charge. The entirety of ME2/ME3 combat is thematically inconsistent with how combat was portrayed in ME1.

 

Technically, this is true. However, the general consensus is that this is a good thing, because ME1 combat was lame.

[Ahglock]

You're right. Bring back ME1 combat. No drones, tech armor, shockwave, nova, or charge. The entirety of ME2/ME3 combat is thematically inconsistent with how combat was portrayed in ME1.

Yes sarcasm. But I just disagree with your premise that most of that went against the thematic elements of ME1. Biotic charge I'll give you is a bit out of the scope of how biotics were described. The rest actually fit fairy well.

Jack wearing straps, Miranda's outfit, breather masks those were against the feel of the setting and also IMO against the feel of the characters but nova, shockwave are very fitting. Drones totally fit and are actually just a enhancement on what was in ME1.

That actually is a gameplay to lore issue where you can say the gameplay in ME1 just couldn't reflect what the setting wanted to accomplish. Swords(effective ones not their existence in history) though actually go against the setting and adding them to gameplay with phantoms or the shadow distorts the setting instead of being a better reflection of the setting that came with a better game engine.

[wass12]

This has already been addressed. The cutting edge is almost entirely irrelevant. No one could swing a blade hard enough to slash through the armor. 

 

This is why I prefer the warp blade theory. It makes the materials involved irrelevant.