45 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Well, 65% of missions, anyway.

The problem is that a guy with an assault rifle isn't going to be able to actually harm a 2-kilometer-long robot starship. It's not like the dopey Saren-hopper fight or that assuming control business were anything but cheap contrivances.

[CYRAX470]

Well they could have made our encounters with Harbinger a bit smaller, and save the big stuff for the end.

Say it goes like this.

Shepard leaves Earth before Harbinger arrives, Harbinger crafts a small custom made body, to go after Shepard. Across the story, Harbinger in this new body, does battle with Shepard several times. Treat it as a recurring boss. Like they did with Kai Leng. Eventually we beat Harbinger in this body, and at the end, with the support of the galactic fleet, we fight him in a giant space battle.

[AlanC9]

I guess that would have worked as well as the earlier contrivances did, if you think having Harbinger running around would have been a good thing in the first place.

[CYRAX470]

Well if they did keep him as the primary antagonist, wouldn't it be right to fight him? In some shape or form for the last time?

[gothpunkboy89]

I would've had Cerberus send bad information to the salarians. Instead of fighting Cerberus, Shepard is fighting the salarians, not all of them, because of bad information
 

If there are reaper ground forces on the Citadel that means the reaper themselves would be in the area and most likely would destroy any ship entering the area. They destroy the Normandy. Reapers win. I can go for that.

 

Why would the salarians listen to cerberus? Why would they ignore a direct statement from a dalatrass?  Who holds a position similar to President/Prime Minister.

 

Reapers were in the area in Thessia. You got in and out without being killed.

 

And be honest wouldn't killed a reaper by crushing it between the arms of the citadal while it closes be the most awesome reaper death in game?

[themikefest]

Why would the salarians listen to cerberus? Why would they ignore a direct statement from a dalatrass?  Who holds a position similar to President/Prime Minister.

Why couldn't Cerberus interrupt the transmission and then send a different message using a copy of the dalatross voice?
 

Reapers were in the area in Thessia. You got in and out without being killed.

So because the Normandy was able to get in and out on Thessia it would've at the Citadel? And if the arms are closed, Shepard would never of been able to stop the councilors from being killed. Ashley/Kaidan most likely would be dead. Later Shepard would never of been able to talk with the asari councilor about the beacon on Thessia.
 

And be honest wouldn't killed a reaper by crushing it between the arms of the citadal while it closes be the most awesome reaper death in game?

No.

[gothpunkboy89]

Salarians are the most memomic species in the galaxy. During Casnino a guy talks off hand how Salarians are able to pick up conversations a year old as if they only met last week.  Like wise they are impressed with the current Dalatrass at birth to ensure loyalty to her over family or friends. At least in practice. Combine the two and I don't think Cerberus could copy anything and get away with it.

 

If reapers struck hard enough with ground forces they would be forced to keep arms open to allow support ships to drop troops in. C Sec is ready for most things but not an all out invasion force of reapers.  Particularly with the size of the place.

 

Oh why? Reaper trying to retreat to avoid destruction and shepard orders the arms closed to crush him. Reaper things he escapes till he gets stuck on the tip of the arm. Screams once before being slowly crushed to death.

[CYRAX470]

I rewatched that cinematic Take Back Earth trailer, anyone remember that? I thought back to this thread and how Haringer was replaced by the Catalyst as the leader. It's a shame that they portrayed the Reapers as truly awful things, only to give their motivation a "noble" cause, preserving life.

Here you have these things killing trillions of innocent people across the entire galaxy, turning friends and loved ones into horrific abominations for soldiers. They're causing untold levels of devastation and are ruining EVERYTHING.

Yet they do it to preserve life. That's the reason for all the horror?

Ultimately, I feel that's the main reason I disliked the ending so much. I didn't feel like some grand epic hero stopping the worst villain of all time. I came into conflict with something else's "noble" cause, and put what I wanted this whole time into doubt.

[gothpunkboy89]

I rewatched that cinematic Take Back Earth trailer, anyone remember that? I thought back to this thread and how Haringer was replaced by the Catalyst as the leader. It's a shame that they portrayed the Reapers as truly awful things, only to give their motivation a "noble" cause, preserving life.

Here you have these things killing trillions of innocent people across the entire galaxy, turning friends and loved ones into horrific abominations for soldiers. They're causing untold levels of devastation and are ruining EVERYTHING.

Yet they do it to preserve life. That's the reason for all the horror?

Ultimately, I feel that's the main reason I disliked the ending so much. I didn't feel like some grand epic hero stopping the worst villain of all time. I came into conflict with something else's "noble" cause, and put what I wanted this whole time into doubt.

 

 

That is the best part of the whole series. Any idiot can make a game were bad guy shows up. Does bad things then good guy shows up and defeats/kills him. Hell that is 90% of all games are like that. But to build up the main enemy as the horrors of horror only to find out that while their actions are horrific they are actually working towards a noble goal. Making you question if they might be right or not.

 

Love games that make you question if the actions you have taken are really the correct one.

[CYRAX470]

I guess that's just the type of hero/villain quest I like best. The simple stuff. Stopping the forces of evil.

*shrug* Can't help what you like, right? Though I suppose I got what I wanted at the end of ME2. So there is that.

[AlanC9]

Here you have these things killing trillions of innocent people across the entire galaxy, turning friends and loved ones into horrific abominations for soldiers. They're causing untold levels of devastation and are ruining EVERYTHING.
Yet they do it to preserve life. That's the reason for all the horror?

Note that this was also going to be the case in the Dark Energy plot. I guess this is something Bio just wanted to do, whether it was Drew doing the writing or Mac taking over.

[CYRAX470]

Note that this was also going to be the case in the Dark Energy plot. I guess this is something Bio just wanted to do, whether it was Drew doing the writing or Mac taking over.

Yeah I'm aware of that plot, wasn't into that one either. Any plot where the Reapers are trying to "help" or stop something wouldn't do it for me. But that's just me.

[Get Magna Carter]

I rewatched that cinematic Take Back Earth trailer, anyone remember that? I thought back to this thread and how Haringer was replaced by the Catalyst as the leader. It's a shame that they portrayed the Reapers as truly awful things, only to give their motivation a "noble" cause, preserving life.

Here you have these things killing trillions of innocent people across the entire galaxy, turning friends and loved ones into horrific abominations for soldiers. They're causing untold levels of devastation and are ruining EVERYTHING.

Yet they do it to preserve life. That's the reason for all the horror?

Ultimately, I feel that's the main reason I disliked the ending so much. I didn't feel like some grand epic hero stopping the worst villain of all time. I came into conflict with something else's "noble" cause, and put what I wanted this whole time into doubt.

there's an old joke slogan "Preserve Wildlife.  Pickle a squirrel"

 

to me, for preservation means preserving (more or less) as is.  Transforming people into gunk, mixing them up into a single monstrous being and brainwash (or whatever) the resulting entity into doing the same to other people isn't preserving life but rather destroying everything about life which makes it meaningful and worthy of existing 

 

And pretty much every war that ever happened was against someone else's "noble cause".  End of the day, we have to decide whether we believe their cause is truly as noble as they think (or at least noble enough to justify their actions) when we choose whether to oppose it.  Many wars seem to be simply oversized feuds with both sides constantly retaliating and blaming the other side for starting it.

 

To me, the whole Reaper cause was fundamentally wrong and horrific and should be opposed no matter now noble the catalyst thinks it is.

To get me to think otherwise the game would have to SHOW (note:Show don't tell) a greater threat - something worse than the reapers ..and that is something hard to imagine.  The game failed to do so.  It didn't come close.

The A.I./Organic situation was a story arc which started in the first game with organics and A.I.s in conflict and ended halfway through the third game with A.I.s and organics putting their differences aside and uniting against their common enemy .. the Reapers.  So not a problem by the end of the game. 

[CYRAX470]

I know that despite the motivation, what they did is still absolutely horrible. But it's the fact it all comes from a "good" place. I just wanted their methods to be the caused by something just as evil. That's just the type of villain I like. And after how Harbinger was portrayed in ME2, I was so sure it was going to be that. Oh well.

[Kalas Magnus]

Good question. One I would like to hear an answer to, as well. This guy spent ME2 hounding us and harassing us and talking all high and mighty and yet it barely exists at all within ME3. Disappointing.

he was two timing shepard

[Vanilka]

he was two timing shepard

 

That bastard. I knew something was wrong once he stopped trash talking me. The nerves he has.

[CYRAX470]

Found this confession from Tumblr, gotta say I agree with pretty much all of it.

 

I hate the fact that Harbinger barely appeared in Mass Effect 3. You’d think being the first Reaper would be the main threat right? “LOLNOPE YA’LL GET CERBERUS” My problem with Cerberus and no Harbinger is Too many Cerberus, too few Reaper forces in plot. We fight Cerberus more often than the reapers. Hardly any boss fight and the one with Reaper Destroyer on Rannoch was more an interactive movie than fight. During the Horizon mission in Mass Effect 2, Harbinger was solidified as the Big Bad. It was menacing and ominous, with just the right amount of annoying. It taunted us throughout the game, telling us how insignificant we were, and how our actions were pointless. It was willing to posses drones through the Collector General to fight us personally, and when we killed the host, it tossed them aside. Harbinger even gave the typical “You haven’t seen the last of me!” villain rant. It made any fire fight frustrating, and that made me want to kill it even more; I hated Harbinger. Many games fail to do that. Harbinger was an enemy which I looked forward to defeating. I had the desire to annihilate.  In Mass Effect 3, I got a codex entry and a cameo. Harbinger just swoops in at the last second and blows my friends and I to hell, then flies off. Personally, I would have loved to hear Harbinger’s menacing monologue, it drove me on. I would have felt a deeper motivation to take the fight back to Earth if it told me how much destruction the Reapers were causing, how many lives were lost. I felt cheated when I got to the final mission, only to suddenly realise it was largely absent from the game. Harbinger has been replaced. Replaced by the Illusive Man and Kai Leng. The former is an old acquaintance, albeit one now controlled by the Reapers. The latter is a space ninja from a terrible book.

 

I feel your frustration friend.

 

Lately I compare Harbinger's appearance in ME3 to the Joker tease at the end of Batman Begins. Only instead of being the main antagonist throughout the The Dark Knight, he didn't show up until The Dark Knight Rises at the very end and does nothing.

[countofhell]

Why was he missing in action for nearly the entire game?

Because he got a lot of puppets, indocrinated agents ( Kai Leng, TIM, Lawson etc. ) so he does not need to act directly anywhere. He only adress Shepard, specifically on Rannoch. Cerberus is the Reapers right hand and the Geth but Shepard acts quickly and screws up the Harbringers plan.

[Applepie_Svk]

Spoiler

In that rush to the relay in the end of Mass Effect 3 the Reaper that descends onto the relay and wounds Shepard is Harbinger

Its a damn shame that he was severely reduced as an antagonist and replaced by starchild.

It´s more shame that his beam guns were reduced from cruiser-tearing hellhounds into very weak grill like Sheppard - medium crispy edition... 

[KotorEffect3]

I get that people thought there were too many missions in which we fought cerberus forces instead of reaper forces.  But since cerberus was indoctrinated anyway it is still fighting against the reapers in a sense.  That said would have liked to have seen more missions with direct confrontations with reaper forces.

[CYRAX470]

I wish the Retaliation MP maps had a single player equivalent. So Harbinger gets focus on MP, but not SP? Lame.