249 réponses à ce sujet

[laudable11]

Cool. You guys are buying Fallout 4. I'll just hang back for a few months while you guys report all those bugs.

Thanks!

[Ahglock]

Cool. You guys are buying Fallout 4. I'll just hang back for a few months while you guys report all those bugs.

Thanks!

Never really bumped into any worth reporting and I've bought at launch since dagger fall.

[FKA_Servo]

Never really bumped into any worth reporting and I've bought at launch since dagger fall.

Occasionally it requires creative application of the dev console, but my experience is similar.

[straykat]

Cool. You guys are buying Fallout 4. I'll just hang back for a few months while you guys report all those bugs.

Thanks!

 

I don't mind beta testing for you. I'm jonesing for a big budget RPG...(or RPG lite).

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Considering that DAI had about 60,000, I feel that MEA will probably have the same amount as DAI. What I'm disappointed in is that Fallout 4 will probably have more dialogue than MEA meaning more narrative. I hope it isn't the case.

 

 

Considering that narrative has never been Bethesda's strong suit I would guess a lot of those lines will be useless like those in Fallout 3, Oblivion, and Skyrim.  Many of those lines said by the same characters and will offer NOTHING to the overall story and/or character. How many talented voice actors will those other than 4 and and couple of big name actors for nothing more than a glorified cameo. 

 

You don't need a 60,000, or 120,000 lines of dialogue to get info across good character animation and rendering can tell you a lot more than 1 million lines of dialogue ever could and that is something BOTH BioWare and Bethesda need to greatly improve on. 

[straykat]

 

 

Considering that narrative has never been Bethesda's strong suit I would guess a lot of those lines will be useless like those in Fallout 3, Oblivion, and Skyrim.  Many of those lines said by the same characters and will offer NOTHING to the overall story and/or character. How many talented voice actors will those other than 4 and and couple of big name actors for nothing more than a glorified cameo. 

 

You don't need a 60,000, or 120,000 lines of dialogue to get info across good character animation and rendering can tell you a lot more than 1 million lines of dialogue ever could and that is something BOTH BioWare and Bethesda need to greatly improve on. 

 

I just don't see how I can even measure their writing here by the past. They're going for voiced protagonist now.. That in itself is a radical departure. It's totally unlike Bethesda to do it. So what else do they have in store?

[rashie]

In my experience, Bethesda bugs aren't so often about CTD problems or performance issues, as much as things working in unintended ways in regards to physics etc. the skyrim physics engine absolutely cannot handle high frame rates, once you get past a certain point it starts to effect things like gravity on objects etc.

 

It'd take a stab in the dark that is part of why people find it more acceptable and funny than outright frustrating.

[Ahglock]

Occasionally it requires creative application of the dev console, but my experience is similar.

Most people don't bump into significant bugs in Bethesda games. But with millions maybe 10s of millions of people playing an open world game on multiple systems with a wide range of graphics cards with a huge range of powers and abilities bugs will happen. Outside the PlayStation fiasco most of the game breaking ones get fixed quick.

[Ahglock]

In my experience, Bethesda bugs aren't so often about CTD problems or performance issues, as much as things working in unintended ways in regards to physics etc. the skyrim physics engine absolutely cannot handle high frame rates, once you get past a certain point it starts to effect things like gravity on objects etc.

It'd take a stab in the dark that is part of why people find it more acceptable and funny than outright frustrating.

I wish I bumped into more of those. I see them on YouTube but rarely get them myself. I fell through the floor teleporting to the sky and then falling to my death in Skyrim but that was after mods. Pre mod not zany fall from the sky stuff, le sigh it looks really funny on the Internet.

[Sanunes]

Most people don't bump into significant bugs in Bethesda games. But with millions maybe 10s of millions of people playing an open world game on multiple systems with a wide range of graphics cards with a huge range of powers and abilities bugs will happen. Outside the PlayStation fiasco most of the game breaking ones get fixed quick.

 

Most of the time I am forgiving for bugs because like you said they can be fixed, but when playing Fallout 3 I had two patches that corrupted all my saves and another one that damaged about 40 hours worth of saves.  If they could have fixed that corruption I don't think I would be nearly as frustrated with the issues, but having to start over multiple times after spending weeks playing got frustrating.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Ah, the hype train for Bethesda games...

 

Who wants to bet people won't be as upset at Bethesda the same way they would be upset at any other company?

 

 

My money is that gamers will complain about something in Fallout 4 that is all they do now of days.

 

Mostly it'll be:

"It's too buggy!"

"It's too long!"

"It's too ugly looking!"

"The story sucks!"

"The voice acting sucks!"

"The gameplay sucks!"

"It's too short!"

"It's too hard!"

"It's too easy!"

"The combat is too console!"

"The combat is too PC!"

"The inventory sucks!"

"The camera sucks!"

"Bethesda sold out and now sucks!"

 

If you think gamers won't complain about Fallout 4 then I got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale for you and if buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate Bridge in for free. 

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I just don't see how I can even measure their writing here by the past. They're going for voiced protagonist now.. That in itself is a radical departure. It's totally unlike Bethesda to do it. So what else do they have in store?

 

Better writing, character modeling/animation, voice acting, and a new kind of storyline that isn't: "You are freed/escaped prisoner tasked with saving the world from some big bad villain." would be a nice start.    

[straykat]

I think if someone is going to complain that Bethesda "sold out", they were already the ones complaining during it's announcement months back.

 

 

I don't doubt people will complain about most of the others though.

[Ahglock]

Most of the time I am forgiving for bugs because like you said they can be fixed, but when playing Fallout 3 I had two patches that corrupted all my saves and another one that damaged about 40 hours worth of saves. If they could have fixed that corruption I don't think I would be nearly as frustrated with the issues, but having to start over multiple times after spending weeks playing got frustrating.

That would suck. And it would frustrate me as well. Those things do happen. Heck I've had large issues in ME3 multiplayer where for hours and hours of games I got no xo or credits. After a match it would talky the do and credits but it just wouldn't stay around. It damn near stopped me from playing. I have no idea why it suddenly started working again.

I don't want to diminish the issue for the people who get hit by game breaking bugs, just want to point out its not the norm.

[Fidite Nemini]

 

 

If you think gamers won't complain about Fallout 4 then I got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale for you and if buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate Bridge in for free. 

 

Must been expensive digging all that California and Mexico coastline away, but I'd take it.

I presume delivery expenses for the Golden Gate Bridge are covered?

[Ahglock]

Better writing, character modeling/animation, voice acting, and a new kind of storyline that isn't: "You are freed/escaped prisoner tasked with saving the world from some big bad villain." would be a nice start.

That's my list for Bioware. Well except the voice acting, they already are good at that.

For Bethesda, that's not what i get the games for so I don't care. For me it's about more options. As a quick example the lack of spell making in Skyrim made it the worst elder scrolls so far on the magic front. The perks were a awesome touch, dual wielding cool. Loss of athletics and real hand to hand sucked, streamlining to 3 attributes sucked.(though yes the juggling skill use to maximize attribute points when leveling thing needed to go) So when they add options it's good when they take away options it sucks. There are gameplay things as well like better at scaling enemies, more powerful enemies for end game, stealth gameplay etc.

[Fidite Nemini]

You guys know which line is going to be the most important, right?

 

Spoiler

I used to be a Wanderer like you, but then I took a teddy bear to the knee!

 

You guys know it's going to happen. You'll cringe, you'll rage, but you KNOW it's going to happen sooner or later, even if it requires a voice-acted mod!

[Mr.House]

That's my list for Bioware. Well except the voice acting, they already are good at that.

For Bethesda, that's not what i get the games for so I don't care. For me it's about more options. As a quick example the lack of spell making in Skyrim made it the worst elder scrolls so far on the magic front. The perks were a awesome touch, dual wielding cool. Loss of athletics and real hand to hand sucked, streamlining to 3 attributes sucked.(though yes the juggling skill use to maximize attribute points when leveling thing needed to go) So when they add options it's good when they take away options it sucks. There are gameplay things as well like better at scaling enemies, more powerful enemies for end game, stealth gameplay etc.

Bethesda removed skills in FO4, enjoy?

[Fidite Nemini]

Bethesda removed skills in FO4, enjoy?

 

Assuming the new SPECIAL and perk based version offers more depth, then hell to the yes. The recent skill system was nothing more than a brainless point sink that you'd inevitably nearly max out as you reach max rank because even without maxed INT you get enough skillpoints (plus skill books or momentary boosts from drugs/magazines) that it's effective impact on gameplay was a boring, linear progression as you levelled up.

 

I even had to install a mod for FO3 because with a high INT build I ended up having too many skill points to spend and with every single skill maxed out at 100 I still had points left to allocate and the menu wouldn't let me leave.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Bethesda removed skills in FO4, enjoy?

 

Attributes + perks - skills sounds fine to me.

 

Skills in TES, another Bethesda series, have always been problematic, since they're usually farmed like crazy to raise level. Attaching XP to quests and dungeons and enemies offers exploits for farming, but as long as dungeons don't have super-fast respawn rates and the wilderness isn't crawling with mobs, there's relatively little to exploit.

 

In Morrowind, the point of skills was that they affected the chance of attacks, spells and other actions working correctly. A Daedric Katana at 1 Long Blade hit has hard as a Daedric Katana at 100 Long Blade, just not as often. Strength and weapon condition were all that mattered for damage output. Since Oblivion, RNG combat is done, it's over, it's through, forget about it, go home. So what did they do with the skills? Attached them to damage. But since skill and strength both factored in, damage at high levels could get pretty crazy. Then they junked attributes in Skyrim. This offered a lot of versatility for characters, but also discouraged playing a specific style. Also since all skills contributed to leveling, you could really screw up if you farmed skills like pickpocket. The "learn by doing" made Alchemy useless for making healing potions (which in most RPGs should be the #1 use of a potion-crafting skill) since Alchemy would get in the way of Restoration leveling.

 

Most perks in Bethesda games just make actions better anyway, so they're functionally just like skills. And I like Attributes a whole lot more because they can relate to a variety of things that affect the game mechanics. Being charged by a Clannfear in Oblivion and hitting it with a Damage Speed spell so it slows to a crawl was so satisfying. Likewise was draining someone's magical skills and magical cap with a Damage Intelligence or Damage Willpower spell. In Skyrim, it was about doing damage, and doing more damage. Skills were there, but it was linear.

 

To Bioware's credit, I really like the old attribute systems as used in KOTOR and DA:O. DA:O's attribute prerequisite to use more powerful items was an excellent way to stop a player from getting too overpowered just because they got a great sword or something. They could plug all their attribute points into strength to get that sword more quickly, but it meant missing out on the sweet defense and attack offered by dexterity, or the magic that could help them get Crushing Prison or Cone of Cold just a little more easily.

 

 

 

TL;DR, Attributes are much more important than skills and much better for use in RPGs.

[Mr.House]

Assuming the new SPECIAL and perk based version offers more depth, then hell to the yes. The recent skill system was nothing more than a brainless point sink that you'd inevitably nearly max out as you reach max rank because even without maxed INT you get enough skillpoints (plus skill books or momentary boosts from drugs/magazines) that it's effective impact on gameplay was a boring, linear progression as you levelled up.

 

I even had to install a mod for FO3 because with a high INT build I ended up having too many skill points to spend and with every single skill maxed out at 100 I still had points left to allocate and the menu wouldn't let me leave.

There is no proof this will bring depth, what this will be doing however is heavily restricting people unless people can max SPECIAL points which will make this system a waste of time.

 

SPECIAL, perks and skills have always been part of Fallout and worked fine in FO1,2 and NV. Bethesda pulled a Bioware, plain and simple. Instead of improving skills they removed it.

[katerinafm]

Quality over quantity.

 

DAI had a bunch of gigantic maps but the quality/content was low. It'll be the same for Fallout 4. Just because you have a huge amount of lines in the game (which doesn't mean they are all important, quest related or character lines) doesn't mean that their quality will be superior.

[Isendur]

[Fidite Nemini]

There is no proof this will bring depth, what this will be doing however is heavily restricting people unless people can max SPECIAL points which will make this system a waste of time.

 

SPECIAL, perks and skills have always been part of Fallout and worked fine in FO1,2 and NV. Bethesda pulled a Bioware, plain and simple. Instead of improving skills they removed it.

 

Erm, no?

 

Considering the last system had both SPECIAL and Skills restrict access to perks, with it now only requiring SPECIAL, players are objectively less restricted.

Sure, skills could've been completely reworked into something other than a plain point dump, but that's mechanically no different from making leveling a different game mechanic in the first place as Bethesda is doing now. The only difference would be keeping skills for the benefit of having them. That might ring nice to the ears of people accustomed to it but amounts ultimately to the same gameplaywise, so in the end it's cosmetics.

[Fredward]

Considering the last system had both SPECIAL and Skills restrict access to perks, with it now only requiring SPECIAL, players are objectively less restricted.

 

Just a small caveat to that: the higher tiers of the perks also have level requirements.