57 réponses à ce sujet

[renfrees]

Right now, slavery is the least of Dorian's problems.  The Qunari are attacking in full force and Dorian is working to increase the power of his political faction and stay alive while doing so.  It may sound harsh but the slavery issue is a problem for another day.  And the slavery issue is never omitted, I just don't see the point in talking about it every single time Dorian is mentioned.

He cannot claim to reform Tevinter without abolishing slavery. And these reforms must start with him, yet I've heard nothing about him freeing the slaves he inherited after his father. 

[Hazegurl]

He cannot claim to reform Tevinter without abolishing slavery. And these reforms must start with him, yet I've heard nothing about him freeing the slaves he inherited after his father. 

Freeing slaves in the middle of a war with a divided government would not be the smartest idea.   I actually made a post which goes a bit deeper into why I think it wouldn't be wise at this point in time.

 

 

The more I hear about Tevinter's problems the more I think that it's fall is inevitable.  They just have too many factors that remind me of when the Roman Empire fell. 

 

Too many invasions

Overly reliant on slave labor

Government corruption

Political instability and infighting

 

Not that I don't believe in Dorian and his group but that I think it may be far too late for them to do anything about it.  If they freed the slaves, how many would become citizens? Would making them citizens be a good thing?  Or cause the people of Tevinter to be further divided?  Will the country be able to financially support former slaves? With the loss of slave Labor, how many citizens would be able to financially support themselves?  If citizens can't financially support themselves, then how many will seek financial stability elsewhere causing a population decline. Which is another factor in Rome's collapse. 

 

Dorian's group could very well end up furthering the internal division and weakness of the country which will hasten Tevinter's end more than save it. 

 

The fall of Tevinter may not be the worse thing in the world, it's the oldest country in Thedas so it's time is simply at an end. 

 

But if Dorian really wants to save Tevinter then he's going to have to play dirty and perhaps make some very brutal decisions. He may have to forgive the men who murdered his father and work with them, Convince the other Magisters that they need to go on the offense with the Qunari... Or create a disease and infect the Qunari with, sort of like a Genophage.

 

Dangle freedom on a stick to the slaves by ending slavery officially, but not unofficially (ie Sharecropping). 

 

In other words they have to get the slaves invested in the well being of the country while still maintaining their slave labor to prevent a rebellion , create a united government while working toward severely weakening the Qunari threat once and for all.

 

But that may still not be enough.

[renfrees]

Freeing slaves in the middle of a war with a divided government would not be the smartest idea.   I actually made a post which goes a bit deeper into why I think it wouldn't be wise at this point in time.

You know, after reading this I don't think I want to continue this argument with you. I'm sorry, perhaps your views on Tevinter situation are practical from political and financial standpoint, but disgustingly reminds of a southern slave-owner's mentality. And if Dorian will follow your steps, it will end the belief that he's different from other magisters.

[BraveVesperia]

Thom Rainier. He's using his true name again and has dedicated his life to helping others. I wasn't sure what to make of him in the main game, but he's really risen in my estimation with Trespasser. I'm sure Cole is very proud of him too. 

[TK514]

Blackwall/Thom Rainier.

[Mlady]

Varric and Cole.

 

Varric took on some heavy responsibilities after saying he wasn't good at that stuff and also gifted the Inquisitor with some amazing stuff (especially if you are in elf and your clan is alive) and anyone who can put Bran on a leash is just awesome lol.

 

Cole if human because he's grown so much as a person and truly did become a real human, yet maintained his compassion as a spirit in small ways and found love.

[Hazegurl]

You know, after reading this I don't think I want to continue this argument with you. I'm sorry, perhaps your views on Tevinter situation are practical from political and financial standpoint, but disgustingly reminds of a southern slave-owner's mentality. And if Dorian will follow your steps, it will end the belief that he's different from other magisters.

Yeah, it's probably better to stop right there if you're going to pass personal judgements, make baseless assumptions, and get yourself worked up.  And yeah my thinking is practical moreso than "feels and because reasons" logic, because ending slavery in a country that relies on it for financial support is not going to be a simple matter, it wasn't simple for Ancient Rome and it wasn't simple for the Southern U.S.  Many other factors have to come into play and freedom is a gradual process, as many slaves learned when it was abolished (officially) in the U.S.  Dorian wants to save his country, not just go all yolo freedom fighter like that idiot Anders.  That requires a lot more than what you're expecting out of him.

 

If it makes you feel better, I think that if DA heads to Tevinter, they'll write the "feels and because reasons" story moreso than the practical one anyway.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Tbh, Cassandra and Varric (which was more due to residual like from Da2), were the only characters that managed to grow on me enough to care about. Most of the others were interesting, but I never really connected with them, so my feelings were mostly just "meh".

[Mlady]

Tbh, Cassandra and Varric (which was more due to residual like from Da2), were the only characters that managed to grow on me enough to care about. Most of the others were interesting, but I never really connected with them, so my feelings were mostly just "meh".

 

I also liked how they grew on each other too. When he gives her the book at the end, it just shows they finally started to let go of the past.

[KaiserShep]

Solas. Freeze those guddamn oxmen...with your mind.

[sonoko]

Solas. He has got cool new powers and is on his way to becoming the best antagonist in Bioware games.

[SweetTeaholic]

Sera for sure! How much her personally had grown between the two years and she matured as well made me smile so much. I always loved her character but she was a bit of a dick sometimes when it came to 'elfy things'. So suppose to be a huge dick over the info we learn about the eleven 'gods', she's pretty respectful to an Elf Inquisitor about it now and even goes out of her way to help them if there clan was killed in the main game. THAT'S a huge change from the Sera we knew in the base game.

 

Also seeing Iron Bull finally come to terms with being Tal Vashoth also got to me (his F you to the Viddalasa was perfect being it didn't need to be a big thing); even more so if you romanced him being in the epilogue he proudly wears the dragon tooth necklace so no matter how far he is from his Kadan, they're together. And I'm just sitting there like "Mai Feels!!"

 

And Cole. Oh my little son how much you've grown. Still unsure how I feel with him getting with the bard but still; I'm so happy for yooou.

 

But really, everyone (with the exception of Solas, Qun!Bull and Cullen if he kept talking lyrium) gets a happy ending for the most part, or at least grown as a person. 

[nOrio_26]

Romance Cassandra：I am not going anywhere, not even if the Maker himself tries to stop me.Believe that.

 

These words come from a devout person like her, It makes me very moved.She is the best!

[RoseLawliet]

Don't really get why people are proud of Dorian. He doesn't put in any effort to get where he is. He got his position because his father left it for him and Maevaris was the one who started the Lucerni faction. He basically rides on the coattail of others all his life, and people go crazy for him just because he's gay.

 

It doesn't matter to me how he got the chance to improve. What matters to me it that he really wants to try. So many people (in game and real life) got to where they are because of connections rather than skill or effort, but that doesn't mean they will be effective at doing good things, or even that they would want to. Yes, his father got him the ambassador position and left him his seat in the Magisterium. Yes, Maevaris started the Lucerni. That does not mean Dorian can't help improve. And it has nothing to do with him being gay.

[Ariella]

It doesn't matter to me how he got the chance to improve. What matters to me it that he really wants to try. So many people (in game and real life) got to where they are because of connections rather than skill or effort, but that doesn't mean they will be effective at doing good things, or even that they would want to. Yes, his father got him the ambassador position and left him his seat in the Magisterium. Yes, Maevaris started the Lucerni. That does not mean Dorian can't help improve. And it has nothing to do with him being gay.

This. I mean Queen Elizabeth the First recieved her position through birth, then went on to secure England's place in history.

I could probably come up with more, but it's too damned early.

As for leadintea's comment about his sexuality. I never romanced him so with the exception of his confrontation with his father it was never some looming factor in my character's relationship with Dorian. In fact I had been prepared to dislike him since the foppish noble has been done to death. And yet he became one of my favorite characters.

[Hazegurl]

 If people do like Dorian only for being gay then they are missing out on his character.  Sure Dorian's place was secured, that's the benefit of having wealthy parents and friends. However, Dorian is the one who left home, sold his family heirloom for money, traveled to the South, slept in the open, tried to seek help for his mentor, formulated a plan to stop him, stop him if he receives aid, reverses time and saves the IQ's a** in the process when he does get help, and asks to join the Inquisition to help stop an Ancient Magister.  These are the things Dorian does either on his own or with help.  And let's not forget that the IQ wouldn't even be the IQ without a bunch of people giving him/her the title.

[Mlady]

 If people do like Dorian only for being gay then they are missing out on his character.  Sure Dorian's place was secured, that's the benefit of having wealthy parents and friends. However, Dorian is the one who left home, sold his family heirloom for money, traveled to the South, slept in the open, tried to seek help for his mentor, formulated a plan to stop him, stop him if he receives aid, reverses time and saves the IQ's a** in the process when he does get help, and asks to join the Inquisition to help stop an Ancient Magister.  These are the things Dorian does either on his own or with help.  And let's not forget that the IQ wouldn't even be the IQ without a bunch of people giving him/her the title.

 

I couldn't care less about his sexual preference because it should not matter or make someone better or not. That does not make them a good or bad person. For me, what I love about Dorian is he shows us that all Vints are not bad people. Felix and Krem too show us that. It gives us an idea of what to expect in DA4 and to not believe everything we hear without seeing the proof for ourselves.

[HurraFTP]

 If people do like Dorian only for being gay then they are missing out on his character.  Sure Dorian's place was secured, that's the benefit of having wealthy parents and friends. However, Dorian is the one who left home, sold his family heirloom for money, traveled to the South, slept in the open, tried to seek help for his mentor, formulated a plan to stop him, stop him if he receives aid, reverses time and saves the IQ's a** in the process when he does get help, and asks to join the Inquisition to help stop an Ancient Magister.  These are the things Dorian does either on his own or with help.  And let's not forget that the IQ wouldn't even be the IQ without a bunch of people giving him/her the title.

 

This!

[leadintea]

 If people do like Dorian only for being gay then they are missing out on his character.  Sure Dorian's place was secured, that's the benefit of having wealthy parents and friends. However, Dorian is the one who left home, sold his family heirloom for money, traveled to the South, slept in the open, tried to seek help for his mentor, formulated a plan to stop him, stop him if he receives aid, reverses time and saves the IQ's a** in the process when he does get help, and asks to join the Inquisition to help stop an Ancient Magister.  These are the things Dorian does either on his own or with help.  And let's not forget that the IQ wouldn't even be the IQ without a bunch of people giving him/her the title.

 

This is actually one of the many problems I had with Dorian. For all his talk about saving Tevinter from itself, the guy basically dicks around for the entire time he was living there despite being born in a good position to help it, focuses on helping his mentor with his personal affairs which had nothing at all to do with helping the Imperium, sabotages his father's, and his own, vie for a position that could have been used to enact change, flees the very country he claims to love, and ends up volunteering to fight Corypheus for his own vainglory - wanting to prove that he's a "good Tevinter" and to make up for Tevinter's mistakes - rather than actually focusing on fixing the Imperium the way it is now. He's a very wishy-washy character and spends the majority of his time and effort in the Inquisition doing nothing to further his desire of helping Tevinter, as he himself says in one of the final conversations with him. Meanwhile, we see many other characters in the Inquisition who work their hardest to go after their goals, while also taking down Corypheus, like Vivienne who works toward her goal of restoring the Circles, and Blackwall, who we actually see making amends for his past and not just talking about it like Dorian does. To me, these are the characters we should be proud of, not someone like Dorian who threw away the many chances he had for bringing change to Tevinter, only to screw around in the south because of his own selfishness, before finally getting some common sense and realizing that he will only get what he wants by going after it. He's pretty much all breeding and no substance and seems to have been written to garner sympathy and likability from the audience rather than to be a strong, sensible character.

[Qun00]

I applaud Solas for his new choice of clothing.

No longer an apostate hobo.

[CuriousArtemis]

Right now, slavery is the least of Dorian's problems.  The Qunari are attacking in full force and Dorian is working to increase the power of his political faction and stay alive while doing so.  It may sound harsh but the slavery issue is a problem for another day.  And the slavery issue is never omitted, I just don't see the point in talking about it every single time Dorian is mentioned.

 

It's hard to ignore lol Especially if you're a Fenris fan like me Slavery is a massive issue for some people; people like me have trouble seeing past it. (Could be b/c I live in the southern US.) I find it personally hard to like a character who is even a little okay with slavery. However... obviously have nothing against those who love Dorian ^^ It really is just a very problematic part of his character for me. (Which does not make him a poorly written character AT ALL, though some of the fan worship does grate on my nerves, same with Alistair )

 

I couldn't care less about his sexual preference because it should not matter or make someone better or not. That does not make them a good or bad person. For me, what I love about Dorian is he shows us that all Vints are not bad people. Felix and Krem too show us that. It gives us an idea of what to expect in DA4 and to not believe everything we hear without seeing the proof for ourselves.

 

I love Krem and just assume he is part of a lower class that has nothing to do with slavery... please let that be so  

 

That is the thing about Tevinter though, so far, far as I can tell, everything Fenris said about it is true :-/

[Hazegurl]

@leadintea, You're well within your rights to see Dorian that way. I also dislike how he screwed up his family's position, a position that could have truly began Tevinter down the road to change, and yeah, he joined the Inquisition for himself moreso than for Tevinter's sake.  He's insecure, and only begins to actually make the strides toward changing his country when he joins the Inquisition, through the war table missions. And he starts to truly believe in himself when he becomes inspired by the IQ.  I don't for a moment believe the character is without flaws. He can seem too dependent and childish in some cases. And yes even selfish. Dorian is going to do Dorian whether it makes anyone else happy or not and if you're romancing him, you just have to support him as you have not much say in whether or not he stays with you, which is why I understand how some players felt almost dumped in Trespasser.  But I don't agree with the claim that he has done nothing at all or got to where he is by riding coattails and nothing else. He was proactive in the events that changed his life, just like the IQ. And like the IQ he received titles, money, and property from others as a result.   

 

It's hard to ignore lol Especially if you're a Fenris fan like me Slavery is a massive issue for some people; people like me have trouble seeing past it. (Could be b/c I live in the southern US.) I find it personally hard to like a character who is even a little okay with slavery. However... obviously have nothing against those who love Dorian ^^ It really is just a very problematic part of his character for me. (Which does not make him a poorly written character AT ALL, though some of the fan worship does grate on my nerves, same with Alistair )

 

lol! I love Fenris. He's my MHawke Mage's canon LI.  I feel for his character, he showcases the horrors of slavery in Tevinter.  So yeah I get people not liking him because of that and I wouldn't try to make anyone like him. I can't stand IB and I wouldn't care what any of his fans have to say about him.  But, this is a thread about listing the things that make you proud about a character and some people feel the need to come in and say "You can't feel proud about Dorian because [insert personal problem with Dorian here]." So, I feel compelled to defend him and my reasons for being proud of his character. But I'll stop, I've derailed the thread enough. lol!

[straykat]

I don't know how to be "proud" of people. It's not any compliment I'd want to hear in real life...Let alone something I do to characters. People who say it either assume a position of advantage or have maternal/paternal inclinations that I don't have, personally. I like character development, but that could be negative or positive. Leliana's probably my favorite there.

[CuriousArtemis]

Oh, and the character I'm probably most proud of is definitely Cullen. He's come so, so far. He seems such a stable and happy individual.

[RoseLawliet]

This is actually one of the many problems I had with Dorian. For all his talk about saving Tevinter from itself, the guy basically dicks around for the entire time he was living there despite being born in a good position to help it, focuses on helping his mentor with his personal affairs which had nothing at all to do with helping the Imperium, sabotages his father's, and his own, vie for a position that could have been used to enact change, flees the very country he claims to love, and ends up volunteering to fight Corypheus for his own vainglory - wanting to prove that he's a "good Tevinter" and to make up for Tevinter's mistakes - rather than actually focusing on fixing the Imperium the way it is now. He's a very wishy-washy character and spends the majority of his time and effort in the Inquisition doing nothing to further his desire of helping Tevinter, as he himself says in one of the final conversations with him. Meanwhile, we see many other characters in the Inquisition who work their hardest to go after their goals, while also taking down Corypheus, like Vivienne who works toward her goal of restoring the Circles, and Blackwall, who we actually see making amends for his past and not just talking about it like Dorian does. To me, these are the characters we should be proud of, not someone like Dorian who threw away the many chances he had for bringing change to Tevinter, only to screw around in the south because of his own selfishness, before finally getting some common sense and realizing that he will only get what he wants by going after it. He's pretty much all breeding and no substance and seems to have been written to garner sympathy and likability from the audience rather than to be a strong, sensible character.

 

People can't change their mind?