130 réponses à ce sujet

[correctamundo]

Loghain is just a scabbard. Who cares about its motivations?

[Illegitimus]

I consider Loghain the villain as well. And it seems I can find find multiple 100 page threads about that guy around here. There's plenty to fight over and talk about with him.

 

Corypheus and his broken faith are interesting concepts, but just about everything dealing with the subject of faith (his or yours) is a farce in this game. Not worth talking about compared to Loghain's motivations.

 

Loghain is a villain, but his counterpart in Inquisition is Calpernia.  And she's kind of an interesting woman although we've yet to see the end of her story.  

[sylvanaerie]

I enjoyed all three games on their own merits.  Each has flaws, but I think overall Bioware is continuing to grow and improve.  It's okay to change things around sometimes, see what works, what doesn't.  

I thought combat in DAO was boring and slow paced, to the point where I was /killallhostiles in the console just to get through to the story part, because I loved the story and the characterizations of the NPCs.  Loghain is one of a handful of my favorite characters I love to hate.  Alistair is still my favorite Bioware romance story.  Poor and limited CC options offset by having a separate program that could be downloaded to make and save characters, and having tons of mods and a toolset to make more sophisticated characters helped a lot here.

 

DA2 had much improved (to my viewpoint) combat, with fast pace and action oriented.  And still, for slowpokes like me, completely doable.  It felt less fleshed out in background, but the characters were still interesting and fun to interact with.  The ending was a bit unsatisfying, but knowing that the intended end (Exalted March) didn't get made for DA2 helped me understand why it felt that way.  I wish Hawke had more time to feel like a family.  The only one she could potentially have left by Act 3 is Gamlen who wasn't particularly close to my Hawke. I also (though it had some flaws) really enjoyed the rivalry/friendship system.  It added to replays when the change was marked enough to make the NPC into someone completely different.  

 

DAI had the best bunch of companions (as a group) yet.  I have favorites in each game, but this time I enjoyed every single one of them.  Even the ones who annoyed me I still liked when all was said and done.  I enjoyed the open world exploration.  Never has Thedas felt so alive to me before.  Not just the people but the land around my characters.  And the CC amazed me (except for the way hair was handled, crappy styles and some color/textures looked like straw or rope).  The story felt a little bare-bones for the amount of game we got, but Trespasser has been my favorite DLC yet, and really finishes off the tale of the Inquisitor well.

[CoM Solaufein]

[Dr. rotinaj]

 

When a RPG game no longer has healing spells, it is a clear sign that combat is not only easy but no longer a challenge.

 

Agree with everything you said except this. I'll heap tons and tons of criticism on the barrier/guard system because I don't think the implementation is as fun and tactical as BW thought it would be, but I'll defend the idea of removing heal spells as long as people say it's un-RPG. Healing in DAO was a low-level spell with a short cooldown. Couple that with the basically unlimited quantities of health poultices and you have a combat system were you rarely need to think about preparation because you always have ways to instantly regenerate health. The fact that this "system" is considered integral the "old-school" or "classic" RPG paradigm is evidence that the genre needs to evolve.

 

DA2 lengthened the cooldown of healing and gave us cross-class combos, better specs, and a more robust Tactics menu. This made for a much more tactical and deep combat system than DAO (they really screwed up with encounter design though). But still, DA2 suffered in the preparation area just as much as DAO did. Preparation in DAO and DA2 was just buying/crafting as much potions as you could. Making a combat system where preparation is key was the motivation for almost every change in DAI's combat. We cannot change equipment mid-fight, we have limited abilities/spells, we cannot change abilities mid-fight, we have limited potions/grenades, and we have no heal spell. This was supposed to add a whole layer of strategic depth to combat but BW horribly misfired in implementing it.

 

They got rid of healspam but replaced it with the even spammier guardspam and barrierspam. Almost every buff or passive is about guard or barriers. They removed glyphs and replaced it with the (until Trespasser) useless fire and ice mines. There are very few useful debuffing and crowd control abilities. The tactics menu is inexcusably bad. The controls (on PC) are not great, playing it on PC gives me the feeling that the game wants to make me play as one character instead of controlling my whole party.

 

So yeah, just because DAI's combat is not good doesn't mean some of the ideas aren't good.

[Nefla]

I didn't like the combat in any of the three games but at least DA:O and DA2 let me automate the tedious basic stuff by letting me set customized and detailed tactics and also have access to all my abilities whenever I wanted.

[Cantina]

Agree with everything you said except this. I'll heap tons and tons of criticism on the barrier/guard system because I don't think the implementation is as fun and tactical as BW thought it would be, but I'll defend the idea of removing heal spells as long as people say it's un-RPG. Healing in DAO was a low-level spell with a short cooldown. Couple that with the basically unlimited quantities of health poultices and you have a combat system were you rarely need to think about preparation because you always have ways to instantly regenerate health. The fact that this "system" is considered integral the "old-school" or "classic" RPG paradigm is evidence that the genre needs to evolve.

 

DA2 lengthened the cooldown of healing and gave us cross-class combos, better specs, and a more robust Tactics menu. This made for a much more tactical and deep combat system than DAO (they really screwed up with encounter design though). But still, DA2 suffered in the preparation area just as much as DAO did. Preparation in DAO and DA2 was just buying/crafting as much potions as you could. Making a combat system where preparation is key was the motivation for almost every change in DAI's combat. We cannot change equipment mid-fight, we have limited abilities/spells, we cannot change abilities mid-fight, we have limited potions/grenades, and we have no heal spell. This was supposed to add a whole layer of strategic depth to combat but BW horribly misfired in implementing it.

 

They got rid of healspam but replaced it with the even spammier guardspam and barrierspam. Almost every buff or passive is about guard or barriers. They removed glyphs and replaced it with the (until Trespasser) useless fire and ice mines. There are very few useful debuffing and crowd control abilities. The tactics menu is inexcusably bad. The controls (on PC) are not great, playing it on PC gives me the feeling that the game wants to make me play as one character instead of controlling my whole party.

 

So yeah, just because DAI's combat is not good doesn't mean some of the ideas aren't good.

 

Go on an MMO...which has no healing spells and replace it with endless pointless barriers and guard and see how much fun a raid can be. Many raids I've been in no healer means your raid party will be being eating lots of dirt. Crunchy. 

 

Replacing healing spells with guard and barriers it pointless. To me that screams laziness and a lack of knowledge based on how fights can be and should be for an RPG.

 

Healing potions have and always will be in any RPG. For a variety of reasons. One being the obvious if the healing spell is on a cool-down at least you have a pot to keep you going. Among other reasons.

 

Being a mage should allow him/her to RP a healer like in the previous two games. Truth be to told I felt a mage in DAI was just as pointless as a rogue. Whereas the previous games having a mage and a rogue in your party was vital.

 

You could pretty much deck your party out in DAI with just fighters from the start to the end of the game and be just fine.

[SentinelMacDeath]

a lot of MMOs tried to get away from the holy trinity though... not very successfully most of the time but they tried 

[IanPolaris]

I enjoyed all three games on their own merits.  Each has flaws, but I think overall Bioware is continuing to grow and improve.

 

I wish I could agree with this.  Unfortunately I can't.  If you want to examine on their own merits the story-telling, and characterization of story-based CRPGs, Bioware has been declining in quality steadily (if not uniformally) and has been for a long time...yes even prior to its acquisition by EA (although IMHO EA has hastened it).  I find that if I look at the roleplaying, storytelling, and quality characterization of BG, BG: SoA, BG: ToB, Neverwinter Nights, KOTR, ME, DAO, DAA, ME2, DA2, ME3, and finally DAI we see a steady and worrying decline in quality in those areas.  [That's not to say that each subsequent game was worse than the prior ones.....I regard DAO as better than NWN for example, but the trend is there.]  It's not just "nostalgia" glasses either (and that's a cop-out critique that I wish would die in a fire btw).  This view was reinforced by my experience (and unpleasant surprise) when I played KOTR for the very first time in 2015 and actually got to compare that first-time experience to that of DAI, Witcher-3 and other modern CRPGs.

 

I hate to say it but a ten+ year old game blew the modern games away.  I also don't think it's just a bioware problem either (but IMHO bioware has been the one of the most afflicted lately) but an industry wide problem.  IMHO there is too much emphasis and worry about getting the details right on every blade of grass and getting the latest and greatest combat animation and almost no worry about the underlying AI which ultimately is the heart and soul of a good RPG experience and the main limitation of roleplaying games.  Frankly today's AI IMHO is no better and in many cases WORSE than that we had fifteen years ago....and that's criminal in platforms that are (literally) magnitudes more powerful both in processing speed and memory storage.

[sniper_arrow]

Another "I hate DAI" thread. How original.

[Dr. rotinaj]

Go on an MMO...which has no healing spells and replace it with endless pointless barriers and guard and see how much fun a raid can be. Many raids I've been in no healer means your raid party will be being eating lots of dirt. Crunchy. 

 

Replacing healing spells with guard and barriers it pointless. To me that screams laziness and a lack of knowledge based on how fights can be and should be for an RPG.

 

Healing potions have and always will be in any RPG. For a variety of reasons. One being the obvious if the healing spell is on a cool-down at least you have a pot to keep you going. Among other reasons.

 

Being a mage should allow him/her to RP a healer like in the previous two games. Truth be to told I felt a mage in DAI was just as pointless as a rogue. Whereas the previous games having a mage and a rogue in your party was vital.

 

You could pretty much deck your party out in DAI with just fighters from the start to the end of the game and be just fine.

 

I never said that the current implementation of guard/barriers is a good alternative from healing spells. Quite the contrary, I said that BW really dropped the ball.

 

Regardless of your feelings on the combat system in DAI, the last thing you can call BW is lazy. Especially after they added toggleable upgrades to every skill in Trespasser. As for "lack of knowledge", what are you talking about? Have you ever thought that maybe the idea of the holy Warrior-Mage-Rogue trinity is getting stale? Or that the idea of requiring a healer is a limitation that restricts diverse tactical decisions rather than creates them? Or that genres can evolve? BW obviously has, they certainly know RPGs.

 

At the end of the day, combat should be fun, tactical, and intense. There is nothing tactical about making a Warrior-Mage-Rogue party if the game is barely playable otherwise. There's nothing tactical about being able to healspam or down unlimited pots at any time. DAI wanted to bring depth where there was none. It wanted to make preparation important. It wanted to make the combat more tactical than the typical RPG tropes we've been seeing for decades. Sure it really cocked it up, but just because the motivation doesn't match your antiquated notion of what "fights should be for an RPG" doesn't make the motivation any less valid.

[Verfallen]

I know this is a mad thought, but if you don't like a game, rather than devoting even more time to it by going on the forums to whine, find a game you do like and Go. Play. It.

[sylvanaerie]

I wish I could agree with this.  Unfortunately I can't.  If you want to examine on their own merits the story-telling, and characterization of story-based CRPGs, Bioware has been declining in quality steadily (if not uniformally) and has been for a long time...yes even prior to its acquisition by EA (although IMHO EA has hastened it).  I find that if I look at the roleplaying, storytelling, and quality characterization of BG, BG: SoA, BG: ToB, Neverwinter Nights, KOTR, ME, DAO, DAA, ME2, DA2, ME3, and finally DAI we see a steady and worrying decline in quality in those areas.  [That's not to say that each subsequent game was worse than the prior ones.....I regard DAO as better than NWN for example, but the trend is there.]  It's not just "nostalgia" glasses either (and that's a cop-out critique that I wish would die in a fire btw).  This view was reinforced by my experience (and unpleasant surprise) when I played KOTR for the very first time in 2015 and actually got to compare that first-time experience to that of DAI, Witcher-3 and other modern CRPGs.

 

I hate to say it but a ten+ year old game blew the modern games away.  I also don't think it's just a bioware problem either (but IMHO bioware has been the one of the most afflicted lately) but an industry wide problem.  IMHO there is too much emphasis and worry about getting the details right on every blade of grass and getting the latest and greatest combat animation and almost no worry about the underlying AI which ultimately is the heart and soul of a good RPG experience and the main limitation of roleplaying games.  Frankly today's AI IMHO is no better and in many cases WORSE than that we had fifteen years ago....and that's criminal in platforms that are (literally) magnitudes more powerful both in processing speed and memory storage.

 

I have the opposite feeling.  I wasn't a fan of NWN or KotoR.  I enjoyed BG2, and still have it on my PC, but think Thedas is far more interesting than Faerun.  I'm sorry, though, I should have said "IMO...." but I thought saying "I think" was the same thing.  My post is of course, my own opinion.  Others may not share it, I'm cool with that. I just wanted to say that I enjoyed all three games--flaws and all--and think each has been an improvement in some way over it's predecessor.  

 

As for AI...I can't answer for that.  I found on the settings I play on, the AI was more than sufficient to handle any combats in the game.  In fact, DAI required less hand holding and micromanaging of my party than Origins and DA2 did.  Admittedly, I played on the most casual settings on all three, but I'm not as skilled at the combat part of the game as others are.

 

*Edit* I have seen others with more knowledge of the AI and the combat complain about it, so there must be some merit to that argument, I just can't see that perspective because I play in the most basic, untactical (for the most part) fashion.

[IanPolaris]

AI isn't just about combat (although AI in general including combat AI really hasn't improved in at least ten years or so), but the primary limiter in how reactive the game can be to your choices.  How often have we seen situations where our character and those around him or her ought to behave one way, but behave another because of the limitations of the scripting?  That goes back to AI.  The better your AI, the more reactive (and less hard-coded) the various personas in the game can be.

[Nefla]

I know this is a mad thought, but if you don't like a game, rather than devoting even more time to it by going on the forums to whine, find a game you do like and Go. Play. It.

So we shouldn't hope that a company we once loved will improve? We should just go "well, I used to love their games but the recent ones have been a letdown so I just won't buy anything from them ever again?"

 

Besides, the same could be said of your reply to a thread with a title that clearly says what it's about. If you don't like this person's opinion, don't read it or reply.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Besides, the same could be said of your reply to a thread with a title that clearly says what it's about. If you don't like this person's opinion, don't read it or reply.

 

On the contrary, the holding of an opinion is one thing, the sharing of it on a message board is another. It invites replies, response. 

 

And critique. The OP is as useful as teets on a boar. When providing critique it should be constructive, not juvenile and uninformative. 

[Qun00]

Here we go again.

[Realmzmaster]

The point is that what one sees as improvement, another does not. So whom is Bioware suppose to listen?

 

For example I like the barrier/guard system in DAI. The implementation needs improvement. I also like the ability to change attributes via equipment and abilities rather than being permanently stuck with whatever attributes I roll at character creation. IMHO, it is a far more flexible system.

 

Actually DAO was one of the first games that I played (and I have been playing since Akalabeth (1979) and D & D before that)  where a party could carry an almost unlimited supply of healing potions. The party could have 99 of each level of health potion. And unlimited resources to make more.

 

That just allows for spamming of health potions and can really take the tactical out of a tactical rpg.

 

Early cRPGS (especially those based on D & D) had weight restrictions and a limit of the number of potions that could be carried at anytime. Also healing spells were limited (vancian spell casting system)  and restricted only to the priest type classes (cleric, druid etc) and certain holy warriors (paladin) or druid offshoot (ranger). Wizards had no healing ability. Therefore a healer of some type was essential in the six party member makeup unless you have a playstyle (like some posters on this forum) that specs characters for damage avoidance and/or reduction.

 

Compared to Wizardry, Bard Tales, Baldur's Gate and Ultima series DAO was a health potion spamfest. A healer was not essential even on Nightmare.

 

Why should Bioware or any developer for that matter continue to use the same old tropes without any variation or improvement? Why should the developer not try something new?

 

So to what posters does Bioware listen? Some posters seem quite pleased with the game other do not. Many suggestions from posters will be at odds with other posters suggestions.

 

So I simply state to Bioware or any developer make the game they want to make and incorporate suggestions that make sense from a story and gameplay point of view that meshes with that vision. Let the chips fall where they may.

[Animechick69]

So we shouldn't hope that a company we once loved will improve? We should just go "well, I used to love their games but the recent ones have been a letdown so I just won't buy anything from them ever again?"

 

Besides, the same could be said of your reply to a thread with a title that clearly says what it's about. If you don't like this person's opinion, don't read it or reply.

 

Problem is, if a majority of the people enjoy the game and see no faults where others do, who are the devs most likely to listen to?

[Ash Wind]

Technically, both games weren't made by the same people. DAO was made by BW and lead designer Brent Knowles. Awesome game. DAI was made by EA/BW with an eye on sales and Mike Laidlaw who 2 games in, hasn't proven he has any particular talent for making games.

[Al Foley]

Go on an MMO...which has no healing spells and replace it with endless pointless barriers and guard and see how much fun a raid can be. Many raids I've been in no healer means your raid party will be being eating lots of dirt. Crunchy. 

 

Replacing healing spells with guard and barriers it pointless. To me that screams laziness and a lack of knowledge based on how fights can be and should be for an RPG.

 

Healing potions have and always will be in any RPG. For a variety of reasons. One being the obvious if the healing spell is on a cool-down at least you have a pot to keep you going. Among other reasons.

 

Being a mage should allow him/her to RP a healer like in the previous two games. Truth be to told I felt a mage in DAI was just as pointless as a rogue. Whereas the previous games having a mage and a rogue in your party was vital.

 

You could pretty much deck your party out in DAI with just fighters from the start to the end of the game and be just fine.

But this is the point.  DA I, as an entire game, drove player choice through the roof.  Not to go on ad naseum about it but if you wanted to run four mages.  Fine.  If you wanted to fun four rogues.  Fine.  If you wanted to run four warriors fine.  You weren't punished because you did not have a mage or a rogue in your party and could effectively play the game without one.  If you set it up right.  On the other hand mages fill the same basic role they did in the previous game, support, damage mitigation, buffing and saving party.  

 

And I don't know where this bizarre idea of healing spells not being in DA I came to be since there are healing spells in the game.  They just made it a little (well actually a lot) more consistant with the Lore considering in DA, healing spells aren't supposed to be easy.  

[Al Foley]

Saying there aren't healing spells in DA I is like saying there aren't swords.

[Tidus]

I don't use the combat system in any of the DA games other then my PC skills or if need be I click on my companion mage and use a skill like group heal.. I let my companions  fight as they will. This works quite well for my style of game play. Maybe that's why I enjoy all three DA games?

 

How many of you tank three rogues and a mage in DA:O?  In DA:2 I tank the characters I plan to use in the game.. DA:I I just tank my PC. Three different games three different playing styles that works for me.

 

Don't like the DA series? Trying finding a play style that fills your needs since you start with blank characters and can build them to fit your game style.

[Lord Raijin]

Interesting, I say that Origins is tedious. 

 

Dragon Age Origins is the porn of all Dragon Age series.

 

Those who call themselves true Dragon Age fans would never use such derogatory word to describe the game. If it wasn't for the success of Origins the franchise of the series would of never taken place. Their would of never been Inquisition without the success of Origins.

 

Calling Origins a tedious game is a great insult to the franchise.

[BSpud]

I HATE THIS THING I'VE SPENT MULTIPLE HOURS WITH OF MY OWN VOLITION. -The Internet