183 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

What can Bioware learn from the character development and emotional payoff of Life is Strange?

Spoiler

Now that was an ending - the feels man. The goddam feels.

[wolfhowwl]

Plenty.
 

 

[Lyrandori]

Don't make episodic content?

[BabyPuncher]

Don't choose an incredibly lame title for your product?

[Display Name Owner]

Just how strange life is.

 

That was lazy, sorry.

[slimgrin]

Everything's better with lezzies. 

[von uber]

Don't choose an incredibly lame title for your product?

 

True, Andromeda is really quite unimaginative.

[Ashii6]

I need my own Chloe in Andromeda. That's all.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

How about no Time Travel? 

 

And since were going to show case Max kissing peeps!

 

 

Yeah I went there >!

[Navasha]

Well.   I guess the lesson would be that if you sell your games in an episodic fashion that most people will skip playing your game.     Maybe once all of the chapters are released and the game falls into the next sale, then people might pick it up if they still remember it.  

 

I bought Walking Dead when it first came out... never bought another episodic game again until all chapters were done and they were usually 70% off by that time. 

[Eelectrica]

Well.   I guess the lesson would be that if you sell your games in an episodic fashion that most people will skip playing your game.     Maybe once all of the chapters are released and the game falls into the next sale, then people might pick it up if they still remember it.  

 

I bought Walking Dead when it first came out... never bought another episodic game again until all chapters were done and they were usually 70% off by that time. 

I pretty much agree with that.

I'm done with episodic games until all chapters are out. I did buy LiS on a Steam sale and will check it out now that all chapters are released. I wouldn't mind episodic content if they stuck to a regular release schedule I suppose, like one episode/month or something, but it never seems to happen like that.

[von uber]

How about no Time Travel? 

 

And since were going to show case Max kissing peeps!

 

 

Yeah I went there > !

 

 

Deviant!

[goishen]

Well.   I guess the lesson would be that if you sell your games in an episodic fashion that most people will skip playing your game.     Maybe once all of the chapters are released and the game falls into the next sale, then people might pick it up if they still remember it.  

 

I bought Walking Dead when it first came out... never bought another episodic game again until all chapters were done and they were usually 70% off by that time. 

 

 

I bought LiS when episode four was out, thinking that five would come pretty soon.  Still had to wait two weeks for the thing.  Started playing through four, realized it, shelved it, then picked it up two weeks later.

 

Back on topic :   What they can learn from LiS --  People will ****** about your game no matter how you end it, if you write it well. 

[Seboist]

Well.   I guess the lesson would be that if you sell your games in an episodic fashion that most people will skip playing your game.     Maybe once all of the chapters are released and the game falls into the next sale, then people might pick it up if they still remember it.  

 

I bought Walking Dead when it first came out... never bought another episodic game again until all chapters were done and they were usually 70% off by that time. 

 

It really defeats the purpose of their wannabe tv show format when they release episodes MONTHS apart from each other. Smh

 

Capcom of all people did the episodic thing right with Resident Evil Revelations 2 by releasing them weekly.

[taeyeonn]

 

 

did someone say character development?

[ColorTheSky]

How about no Time Travel? 

 

And since were going to show case Max kissing peeps!

 

Yeah I went there > !

No, no, no! Warren belongs in the friend zone.   But I do agree, no time travel.

 

LiS was a good game and the ending(s) were worth the episodic waits. And, pretty much this, BW: 

 

What they can learn from LiS --  People will ****** about your game no matter how you end it, if you write it well. 

[Hiemoth]

While I normally avoid threads like this, I did actually finish Episode 2 two hours ago and it still haunts me how utterly beatiful I thought the ending to be. I also thought that how great of a job they did with both Chloe and her relationship with Max as the whole ending choice to matter requires the player to care about that relationship. While I felt that there was only one correct choice there, from a personal point of view, I was still in tears after it.

 

As a game it is so different from ME games that I don't think there is really anything to be taken from it, but on a more general tone I would argue that the more tightened focus on select group of characters benefits the story in a larger sense. By focusing so deeply on Max, Chloe, Kate, Victoria and even Nathan, I felt that they were able to enhance those core interactions to an impressive degree, while having them be such deep characters aids in fleshing out the more minor characters. For example Taylor works a lot better once you see the depth of Victoria. Warren was a weird one for me as for a major character, I felt he was very shallow, the science geek in love with Max. That was why I was so surprised to see that 66% chose the kiss.

 

I think similar benefits are visible in the ME games as well. ME1 really lacked focus on almost all the main characters, making more infodumps. ME2 had, in turn, a large cast of characters, which ended up hurting them a lot as while they had great loyalty missions, they as a group really lacked focus. ME3, I felt, did the best in that regard by really tightening the group and having them constantly react and be present for those larger storybeats. That built them up as people in the story and allowed depth to those interactions.

[Sifr]

Even though I overall liked LiS, I'm not that much of a fan of what I call the "Donnie Darko" rule;

 

Spoiler

It's basically when a movie, film or game tries to emotionally manipulate you into thinking it's deeper than it really was, often using mindscrews and some form of time travel, when it's really a fatalistic plot that railroads the protagonist to a single ending.

 

I mean, when you break them down to their individual plots, Donnie Darko, Life is Strange and even the Final Destination movies all have roughly the same basic premise, where the protagonists are granted some kind of supernatural ability that allows them to change fate, but that's never the right thing to do and they are always set up to fail by the end of the story.

 

In all three, the story only exists because of some supernatural force intervened to change the way an event unfolded, thus preventing a death (or deaths) that would have occured with no interference. As a result of fate being cheated in that way, it ends up leading to events spiralling out of control as the universe tries to find some way to course-correct itself, eventually either forcing the protagonist to undo that initial event to set things back on track or end up accepting the futility of trying to alter their destiny.

 

This then raises one question... why did this story really even need to occur at all?

 

Sure the characters can be fun, the story enjoyable and even the journey entertaining, but ultimately, the overall driving plot seems to just boil down to the universe finding some poor schmuck to screw around with for a while and put through the ringer.

 

I mean, in Life is Strange, was Max spending a couple days reconnecting with Chloe (who she didn't even recognise prior to the bathroom), worth all the pain of being forced to watch her perish numerous times, finding dead bodies, watching a suicide, finding numerous dead animals, being drugged and assaulted, psychic nosebleeds and witnessing the near or total destruction of an entire town, all because the universe is mad at you for using a power it gave you in the first place?

 

Obviously Max's answer would be "Yes!", but factoring all the misery that both the story contains and the ending we are guilted into picking brings, that seriously makes me beg the question of "Why?!"

 

[RoboticWater]

Even though I overall liked LiS, I'm not that much of a fan of what I call the "Donnie Darko" rule;

 

Spoiler

It's basically when a movie, film or game tries to emotionally manipulate you into thinking it's deeper than it really was, often using mindscrews and some form of time travel, when it's really a fatalistic plot that railroads the protagonist to a single ending.

 

I mean, when you break them down to their inidivudal plots, Donnie Darko, Life is Strange and even the Final Destination movies all have rougly the same basic premise, where the protagonists are granted some kind of supernatural ability that allows them to change fate, but that's never the right thing to do and they are always set up to fail by the end of the story.

 

In all three, the story only exists because of some supernatural force intervened to change the way an event unfolded, thus preventing a death (or deaths) that would have occured with no interference. As a result of fate being cheated in that way, it ends up leading to events spiralling out of control as the universe tries to find some way to course-correct itself, eventually either forcing the protagonist to undo that initial event to set things back on track or end up accepting the futility of trying to alter their destiny.

 

This then raises one question... why did this story really even need to occur at all?

 

Sure the characters can be fun, the story enjoyable and even the journey entertaining, but ultimately, the overall driving plot seems to just boil down to the universe finding some poor schmuck to screw around with for a while and put through the ringer.

 

I mean, in Life is Strange, was Max spending a couple days reconnecting with Chloe (who she didn't even recognise prior to the bathroom), worth all the pain of being forced to watch her perish numerous times, finding dead bodies, watching a suicide, finding numerous dead animals, being drugged and assaulted, psychic nosebleeds and witnessing the near or total destruction of an entire town, all because the universe is mad at you for using a power it gave you in the first place?

 

Obviously Max's answer would be "Yes!", but factoring all the misery that both the story contains and the ending we are guilted into picking brings, that seriously makes me beg the question of "Why?!"

 

When considering time traveling or even prequels or stories that start in media res not necessarily to consider the events themselves as important, but to consider the meaning of the events as such.

 

Spoiler

I don't think it's a certainty that Max would answer yes to the question you posed. In my opinion, LiS was an attempt to take the internal conflict of grief and present it externally. If you consider the situation where Max never gets powers (essentially what one of the endings was), you would have a girl who figures out her best friend just got shot. Grief has a tendency to make people ask "what could I have done to fix it?" LiS gives the player a way to actually figure that out. All of the crazy dead animals and apocalypse imagery is just a metaphorical reflection of a sad girl's inner turmoil.

 

Ultimately, I think LiS was trying to say that you can either accept reality and move on, or you can cling to one of the infinite things you could have done leave reality behind.

 

I think the game also makes some interesting statements about wanting to fit in. Max seems to always be hitting herself for not having so many friends and not jumping at the opportunity to make them. Again, her power is the perfect indulgence of her regrets; she can now have the witty comeback and know just the right way to start a conversation. She has perfect insight and is free from the fear of failure. The awkward teen's dream.

 

As to your 'why,' I think that LiS makes it pretty clear that the universe has no agenda. There was no will that gave Max her powers, she just randomly got them. Similar to how Max's best friend she hadn't seen in years just so happens to barge into the same bathroom and get shot. I apologize profusely in advanced, but life is indeed strange. Stuff just happens.

[sjsharp2011]

I pretty much agree with that.

I'm done with episodic games until all chapters are out. I did buy LiS on a Steam sale and will check it out now that all chapters are released. I wouldn't mind episodic content if they stuck to a regular release schedule I suppose, like one episode/month or something, but it never seems to happen like that.

Yeah I've bought Life is Strange and it is a good game but I don't think I'd buy episodic games that often if at all really. I didn't actually byu it until episode 4 came out and I've only just really started playing it because i wanted to wait till all 5 came out before going through it. I've just finished playing Episode 3 I played episodes 1 and 2 yesterday it's a good game and a well written story but I'd rather have access to the whole package from the off. If they want to build on the experience and expand the story through DLC's is a better option. The best thing to do for Bioware is story wise keep doing what they'er doing because when it comes to telling a good story Bioware don't really get much wrong.

[Neoleviathan]

That if they ever go with a Telltale style game, they gotta steal the rewind mechanic. Unashamedly, no apologies, no in-game explanations, just take it. Other games of the style just feel so bleh without it. I didn't know I needed it so bad until I finally had it. & I never want to be without it again.

[goishen]

Spoiler

 

Cool. 

 

Screw that.  I chose for the whole town to die.   I didn't feel any connection to Warren (even though he was trying).  I did kind'a feel bad for Joyce, but...   She's about it.  I'm not one of these "lez be friends *wink wink*" kind'a guys either.  So, no, Chloe and Max didn't have that kind'a relationship.  Hell, I didn't even kiss her the first time she asked.

 

Anyway, my point here being, is that it's not directing you to any kind'a specific ending.  Hell, if you took a look at the endings, it was like 47% decided to save Chloe and 53% decided to save the town.   Well, I'm sorry, but 47% of anything is damn near a majority.

 

EDIT :  Oh yah, if you remember, she had the vision of the storm before she even saw Chloe in the bathroom.  So, what's to say that she doesn't get herself killed along with the town?

 

 

[KaiserShep]

That sacrificing dozens if not hundreds of people for just one person is hella worth it. 

[Broganisity]

That this entire problem could have been solved with nova-cancelling.

[von uber]

I think bioware can learn a lot from the character interaction too. I actually think that a 'less is more' approach would benefit them (especially after the casts of thousands by me3).
With regards endings

Spoiler

choosing the sacrifice chloe ending really hit hard and yet felt like a perfectly rational decision, especially after pushing max towards a relationship with chloe. Interestingly enough the other half decided to sacrifice the town even though she leant towards warren - her logic of Joyce (who was one of the reasons I chose to sacrifice her) would want chloe to live instead of her was something I hadn't considered.

.
This game is also one of the few that the other half enjoyed playing - mass effect she bounced right off. A real elusive audience to capture there, yet dontnod managed it.