That sacrificing dozens if not hundreds of people for just one person is hella worth it.
Giving the fact that Arcadia Bay was actually a corrupt hellhole, then it wasn't really that hard. Plus, you didn't sacrifice anything.
Nothing really I guess.
Walking animation, but then that's something a lot of games do better than BioWare's last set of offerings.
I think all the characters in BioWare games have flaws. Some are just more apparent. Or am I misunderstanding "properly" flawed?
I think all the characters in BioWare games have flaws. Some are just more apparent. Or am I misunderstanding "properly" flawed?
I think she's saying Frank was believable as a real person. He was someone you could meet in real life, and nothing about his character needed to change for that.
I think all the characters in BioWare games have flaws. Some are just more apparent. Or am I misunderstanding "properly" flawed?
I bought Walking Dead when it first came out... never bought another episodic game again until all chapters were done and they were usually 70% off by that time.
I'm kind of glad that I didn't get into LIS until about a month ago so that everything was still fresh in my mind when the last episode came out. One problem I had with Walking Dead S2 was that I'd sometimes forgotten who some of the characters were or what motivated them by the time the next episode came out. (Though I also think that the S2 characters just weren't as interesting as the ones from S1, at least on average.)
Too many of them have superficial flaws, like jack for example. There's no way on this planet in the space of 6 months she'd end up being a teacher responsible for kids (and that happens even without the curative penis).
Frank for example is an amoral drug dealer. At no point does he stop being that, and the only time he might possibly see the ramifications of his actions areSpoiler. But even then he doesn't start up an orphanage as if he was a bioware charachter - like the criminal you can let go in me1 who becomes a social worker on omega.
Yeah, I'd prefer that some characters don't make sudden changes that make them go from sinner to total saint. Like, with Helena Blake, it would've been better if she remained a crime boss if left alone, and became a lackey for Aria if forced to disband her group. It's not like Helena suddenly learned anything when dealing with Shepard. Shepard goes off to wipe out crime bosses based solely on the word of yet another crime boss.
Over on the Steam forum a few days ago, there seemed to be quite a few people who were upset about the ending to Life Is Strange, saying that it ends up making most of your decisions irrelevant and even some comparisons to ME3's ending.
I'm not sure how applicable the lessons of games like LIS or Walking Dead are to the world of action RPGs, in any case. The choices and consequences in those games are mostly personal (at least up until the end of LIS, I suppose) - you can change your character's personality and relationships, but you can't actually stop the zombie apocalypse in TWD or the general sci-fi-ish weirdness in LIS.
Mass Effect's choices are partly about Shepard's personality and relationships but they also sometimes have a much bigger scope in determining the fate of entire groups or even civilizations. While I thought there should have been *more* choices at the end than just the RGB explosions and Refuse, it didn't surprise me that all paths led to a single decision for Shepard rather than having the story go in completely different directions depending on past choices. Plus, part of the problem pre-EC and pre-Leviathan, IMO, was just that the whole thing felt like it came from completely out of the blue.
Over on the Steam forum a few days ago, there seemed to be quite a few people who were upset about the ending to Life Is Strange, saying that it ends up making most of your decisions irrelevant and even some comparisons to ME3's ending.
Spoiler
I'm not sure how applicable the lessons of games like LIS or Walking Dead are to the world of action RPGs, in any case. The choices and consequences in those games are mostly personal (at least up until the end of LIS, I suppose) - you can change your character's personality and relationships, but you can't actually stop the zombie apocalypse in TWD or the general sci-fi-ish weirdness in LIS.
Mass Effect's choices are partly about Shepard's personality and relationships but they also sometimes have a much bigger scope in determining the fate of entire groups or even civilizations. While I thought there should have been *more* choices at the end than just the RGB explosions and Refuse, it didn't surprise me that all paths led to a single decision for Shepard rather than having the story go in completely different directions depending on past choices. Plus, part of the problem pre-EC and pre-Leviathan, IMO, was just that the whole thing felt like it came from completely out of the blue.
This is why I said Bioware didn't have anything to learn of Life is Strange in the choice department. Both it and Mass Effect have the same ending issues.
Mind you, I like the endings to Life is Strange.
This is why I said Bioware didn't have anything to learn of Life is Strange in the choice department. Both it and Mass Effect have the same ending issues.
Mind you, I like the endings to Life is Strange.
Yes, as do I. Which is curious isn't it if the have the same issues.
Well, at least LiS's conclusion didn't feel like incongruous nonsense.
true. Although the Chloe ending could've used a bit more love and attention.
Well, at least LiS's conclusion didn't feel like incongruous nonsense.
That's just the thing, isn't it. I hear many criticisms regarding how "predictable" LiS's ending was, and I can't help but wonder why people think that's an incredibly valid criticism. Sure, the game had already had more than a couple interesting twists that formed their expectations, but I still think it's completely reasonable for a game to address the problem it poses in its beginning directly and predictably.
Would they have preferred it if Chloe started to regale Max about the troubles with Synthetics and Organics? It'd certainly come as a surprise.
I think the "your choices matter..." disclaimer gives people the wrong impression about this game: like it's supposed to be about choices at its core rather than simply uses choices to make a different point. LiS had a clear message it was trying to send, and it did that. I don' think adding in extra choices or crazy twists would have helped.
How not to make a game.
Over on the Steam forum a few days ago, there seemed to be quite a few people who were upset about the ending to Life Is Strange, saying that it ends up making most of your decisions irrelevant and even some comparisons to ME3's ending.
Spoiler
I'm not sure how applicable the lessons of games like LIS or Walking Dead are to the world of action RPGs, in any case. The choices and consequences in those games are mostly personal (at least up until the end of LIS, I suppose) - you can change your character's personality and relationships, but you can't actually stop the zombie apocalypse in TWD or the general sci-fi-ish weirdness in LIS.
Mass Effect's choices are partly about Shepard's personality and relationships but they also sometimes have a much bigger scope in determining the fate of entire groups or even civilizations. While I thought there should have been *more* choices at the end than just the RGB explosions and Refuse, it didn't surprise me that all paths led to a single decision for Shepard rather than having the story go in completely different directions depending on past choices. Plus, part of the problem pre-EC and pre-Leviathan, IMO, was just that the whole thing felt like it came from completely out of the blue.
LiS had a clear message it was trying to send, and it did that. I don' think adding in extra choices or crazy twists would have helped.
Actually, yes, I think that's it. Reading the last entry of the journal makes it very clear the status between the two, and all the minor choices you make throughout make the last choice fairly clearcut.
Edit for spoilereenos I just realised.
Actually, yes, I think that's it. Reading the last entry of the journal makes it very clear the status between the two, and all the minor choices you make throughout make the last choice fairly clearcut.
Edit for spoilereenos I just realised.
Spoiler
That's partly why MEHEM is preferred by many people. Simply getting rid of the Catalyst scene makes the ending more palatable.
It doesn't fix all of the problems that the main plot of ME3 had already, but at least there's no utter nonsense to top it off.
That's just the thing, isn't it. I hear many criticisms regarding how "predictable" LiS's ending was, and I can't help but wonder why people think that's an incredibly valid criticism. Sure, the game had already had more than a couple interesting twists that formed their expectations, but I still don't think it's unreasonable for a game to address the problem it poses in its beginning directly and predictably.
Would they have preferred it if Chloe started to regale Max about the troubles with Synthetics and Organics? It'd certainly come as a surprise.
I think the "your choices matter..." disclaimer gives people the wrong impression about this game: like it's supposed to be about choices at its core rather than simply use choices to make a different point. LiS had a clear message it was trying to send, and it did that. I don' think adding in extra choices or crazy twists would have helped.
While I almost began a truly impressive rant on why I hate MEHEM and consider insulting to a insane degree, I mostly agree with you here. Especially on the predictable part, except I would really like them to explain how they were able to predict the path to that point so well.
I also think you are on the point about the incorrect, for me, perception of what it means for the choices to matter. Each choice you make in that game defines Max as the game is ultimately about her, and to some degree Chloe's, growth in to adulthood and as a person. Various characters in the game comment on how different Max seems as a person due to those choices. Ultimate, for me, a happy ending where everything goes great would have been extremely disappointing, not because I want things to be sad, but because one of the central points of the game is that there are rarely easy choices and being an adult is to do what you think is for the best and carry the responsibility for that. Having a 'you win' ending would have hurt it so badly.
By the way, which again ties it to ME games as it raises the fair question in that is a 'you win' ending truly the best solution for all stories/
While I almost began a truly impressive rant on why I hate MEHEM and consider insulting to a insane degree, I mostly agree with you here. Especially on the predictable part, except I would really like them to explain how they were able to predict the path to that point so well.
I also think you are on the point about the incorrect, for me, perception of what it means for the choices to matter. Each choice you make in that game defines Max as the game is ultimately about her, and to some degree Chloe's, growth in to adulthood and as a person. Various characters in the game comment on how different Max seems as a person due to those choices. Ultimate, for me, a happy ending where everything goes great would have been extremely disappointing, not because I want things to be sad, but because one of the central points of the game is that there are rarely easy choices and being an adult is to do what you think is for the best and carry the responsibility for that. Having a 'you win' ending would have hurt it so badly.
By the way, which again ties it to ME games as it raises the fair question in that is a 'you win' ending truly the best solution for all stories/
I certainly don't advocate for MEHEM as "the definitive ending." It's got problems of its own and honestly, if someone wanted to fix ME3's ending, they'd need to fix a lot more than just the ending.
I didn't mean that the choices were completely irrelevant to the story. It just seems like people get the impression that the mechanic of choice needs to have its own climax (or at least, it's own very specific climax), i.e. every decision culminates in a single scene opening up myriad different ending choices and outcomes (one of which would probably be the "ideal ending"). If LiS was mainly about the exact nature of interweaving cause and effect, then I might expect that, but this game is more about the difficulty of certain choices and perceptions others have of you. Within this context, it makes total sense that the final decision doesn't lead to some crazy smorgasbord of options and outcomes, but rather a direct binary ultimatum.
what can bioware learn from life is strange
never do a episodic game ever ! 
I certainly don't advocate for MEHEM as "the definitive ending." It's got problems of its own and honestly, if someone wanted to fix ME3's ending, they'd need to fix a lot more than just the ending.
I didn't mean that the choices were completely irrelevant to the story. It just seems like people get the impression that the mechanic of choice needs to have its own climax (or at least, it's own very specific climax), i.e. every decision culminates in a single scene opening up myriad different ending choices and outcomes (one of which would probably be the "ideal ending"). If LiS was mainly about the exact nature of interweaving cause and effect, then I might expect that, but this game is more about the difficulty of certain choices and perceptions others have of you. Within this context, it makes total sense that the final decision doesn't lead to some crazy smorgasbord of options and outcomes, but rather a direct binary ultimatum.
While we heavily disagree on ME3, I was actually agreeeing with your point about LiS and choices in it and apparently failed to explain it. Although within the game, it did actually do a pretty good job in carrying forward those decisions and having them constantly present in interactions.
For me, the answer to the complains about choices and their impacts would be that did players feel the choice at the beginning of Chapter 4 was meaningless? If not, then how can any choice be meaningless in the game. Max was changed by the events, they defined her and made understood who she was. And even the last choice is narratively the result of all the previous choices and how they define the Max who makes that choice.
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