Aller au contenu

Photo

What can Bioware and ME:A learn from Life is Strange? (Oh, spoilers within)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
183 réponses à ce sujet

#151
RoboticWater

RoboticWater
  • Members
  • 2 358 messages

I can appreciate that many people liked it, and felt it was fitting. I persnally felt very hollow, more than ME3. I felt they changed the meaning and there are many signs leading up that kinda showed they were going to do something else. I wanted that story, and while they sold it fine, and you can't blame dontnod because they were in huge debt, but I am glad they were able to save it. Personally for me it felt very weak, and established I don't like episodic content.

 

To you it read into the themes, for me, it went with a cliche for ease of use and ruined the game instead of going with their original idea. 

I'm curious: what do you think their original idea was, and what signs indicated that they were going there?


  • AlanC9 aime ceci

#152
Ariella

Ariella
  • Members
  • 3 693 messages

That time travel causes nosebleeds and should never be introduced into the ME universe.

 

It would also be nice if he didn't rip a hole in time. There's already a hole in the sky.-Dorian Pavus


  • Jeffonl1, Danadenassis, Hadeedak et 1 autre aiment ceci

#153
Vapaa

Vapaa
  • Members
  • 5 028 messages

I'm curious: what do you think their original idea was, and what sings indicated that they were going there?

 

And more importantly, how could you figure it would have given a better conclusion ? Because on this forum there are people who still lament the "original dark energy ending" even though it would have resulted in a bigger clusterfuck than what we got.



#154
Dabrikishaw

Dabrikishaw
  • Members
  • 3 243 messages

I don't personally believe the endings are about "accepting reality or living in a fantasy" but rather "Letting go VS Accepting responsibility". I'm going to quote a post from another forum that will explain this in more depth than I have the energy too.

 

Spoiler

  • mat_mark aime ceci

#155
Seraphim24

Seraphim24
  • Members
  • 7 447 messages

Oh we're talking about the ending? Sorry but

Spoiler

  • Danadenassis et mat_mark aiment ceci

#156
o Ventus

o Ventus
  • Members
  • 17 255 messages

Which is a terrible reason.

 

I never said it was a good reason, only that it is a reason.

 

Just because most other characters in the Borderland franchise are crazy does not excuse a character that has been portrayed as sane and normal to suddenly behave outlandishly.
 
A. Rhys and Fiona are only as well adjusted as you play them. 
 
B. How dare Telltale be consistent with the source material?
 

But it wasn't a Borderlands game, was it?
 
Tales from the Borderlands.
 

It was Tales From The Borderlands, a spin-off of the main Borderland games.
 
And right here you contradict yourself. It being a spin-off does not preclude it from being a "Borderlands game".
 

It didn't need to follow the exact same pattern as they did. And I would say that there can be more to the Borderlands franchise than having the ending always culminate in fighting a big creature.
 
And it doesn't follow the *exact same* pattern. It deviates from that pattern quite a bit. I'm just going to assume that you've never actually played any Borderlands games before. Your posts consistently point to that being the case, and you still haven't confirmed or denied if you do.
 
Also, what was Telltale thinking, trying to be consistent with the other games in the series? What monsters.

It's not that there can't be any action or fight scenes at all. But Tales was a story about a company man and a con-artist and it was a story about greed and ambition, a mecha vs. monster fight is a far cry as possible from this. If the episode did need to have a big fight at the end they had a perfectly reasonanable villain in the form of the crime lord Vallory who not only had a connection to our band of heroes, she also represented themes of the story better.
 
Yeah, because the sign of a good villain is when they're introduced more than halfway through the story with literally zero buildup before their introduction. The Traveler at least has foreshadowing dating back as far as episode 1 when Rhys, Fiona and co.  enter the Gortys facility and see the Vault emblem on the map of Pandora. Anyone who is even the least bit familiar with these games should have been able to tell that the Traveler would have been the end enemy.
 

Fiona could still have gotten character development without needing to become a vault hunter.
 
This isn't even a complain so much as it's incessant whining. They *could have* done anything. That fact that they *did* do something does not make it bad.

Yes, exactly. Rhys and Fiona had given up, doesn't matter what the reason were. They gave up and the only reason there is a final battle at all is because Loaderbot desires to bring back Gortys, a goal that overshadows finding the vault and turns it into a secondary priority.
 
They need Gortys TO find the Vault. That's the entire reason Gortys even exists. Now I'm convinced that you not only don't play Borderlands, but that you haven't even played Tales.

 


  • mat_mark aime ceci

#157
rapscallioness

rapscallioness
  • Members
  • 8 039 messages

I think BW could learn from LiS about the difference between big choice/consequence and impactful choice/consequence. It feels like BW thinks that big, galaxy spanning choices necessarily equate with impactful, intense choice/consequence.

 

Personal choice/consequence can be just as, if not more, intense than galaxy spanning things. For example, the end of Episode 2 of LiS was very intense for me, although it had no impact on the community at large. Nothing really changed either way, but it was intense.

 

So, it does not have to be these huge, setting changing choices to be powerful moments.


  • Will-o'-wisp, Danadenassis, karushna5 et 3 autres aiment ceci

#158
goishen

goishen
  • Members
  • 2 427 messages

No, I meant that the developers put a high slant toward one or the other. One choice was much shorter, and kinda goes against logic (as Chloe herself has a preference) one has a more tied up conclusion while the other does not. I am not the first person who found the two endings having very different content. Morally it is a choice, but it is obvious the studio felt there was a correct answer.

 

 

That possibility is there, but I don't think so. 

 

Spoiler

 

So, I mean, tell yourself that if you must. 


  • ComedicSociopathy aime ceci

#159
N7 Shadow 90

N7 Shadow 90
  • Members
  • 1 428 messages

As Life is Strange is up there with Mass Effect as one of my favourite games of all time (never would have guessed from my avatar), I thought I'd chip in with a few things I think Bioware could take notes on.

 

- How natural and real the character interactions felt, on the whole.

- The character development was very well done.

- Romance felt natural and more complex than simply picking romance options.



#160
von uber

von uber
  • Members
  • 5 520 messages

- Romance felt natural and more complex than simply picking romance options.

 

That was something I felt Bioware improved on with DA:I.



#161
Jaison1986

Jaison1986
  • Members
  • 3 315 messages

 

- Romance felt natural and more complex than simply picking romance options.

 

There was barely any. At most a kiss with Warren and two with Chloe.

 

With Warren, it felt a bit abrupt, since Max is pretty firm in her stance that Warren is only a friend and nothing more. But then she suddenly starts to treat him romantically by episode 4 ownards. Like writing a lame flirt on his board or outright calling him a potential boyfriend to Kate. At least I wish they gave more insight on Max change of mind.

 

Wereas with Chloe, their relationship is treated mostly in a platonic way. Even if they kiss, both shrug it off as a joke, only to suddenly act all romantic by the final choice in EP5. Again, little insight on the relationship, with their relationship jumping from friendship to love with little notice.

 

It all reminded me of getting ninja-manced by Liara in Mass effect.


  • fraggle aime ceci

#162
Seraphim24

Seraphim24
  • Members
  • 7 447 messages

I think BW could learn from LiS about the difference between big choice/consequence and impactful choice/consequence. It feels like BW thinks that big, galaxy spanning choices necessarily equate with impactful, intense choice/consequence.

 

Personal choice/consequence can be just as, if not more, intense than galaxy spanning things. For example, the end of Episode 2 of LiS was very intense for me, although it had no impact on the community at large. Nothing really changed either way, but it was intense.

 

So, it does not have to be these huge, setting changing choices to be powerful moments.

 

Almost forgot about Episode 2, that was when the series really turned it up a notch to be honest, not just at the ending for me per se but just the whole experience.

 

Episode 3 felt like an experiment that they eventually more completely implemented in 4, and 5 despite the ending felt like a bit of a mix between the high points and low points.

 

Overall it was quite a ride really, not going to knock it too much, it's strange when some of the most compelling experiences aren't video games but just kind of Visual Novels with lots of game like elements.



#163
Vapaa

Vapaa
  • Members
  • 5 028 messages

Wereas with Chloe, their relationship is treated mostly in a platonic way. Even if they kiss, both shrug it off as a joke, only to suddenly act all romantic by the final choice in EP5. Again, little insight on the relationship, with their relationship jumping from friendship to love with little notice.


Did you read Max's journal ?
  • mat_mark aime ceci

#164
TheChris92

TheChris92
  • Members
  • 10 631 messages

How not to write dialogue

 

Tune in tomorrow and find out what BioWare can learn from Rise of the Tomb Raider and other upcoming titles that have about as much common with each other as a small yappie dog with that of a dangerous pittbull terrier.

 

In all honesty though, there's one thing I believe BioWare or Telltale for that matter can learn from this game. It's how to utilize the dialogue system in unique intricate ways, for example in the form of puzzles -- One noteworthy example was the one where protagonist, Max, has to showcase her time travel powers to Chloe by guessing what she has in her pocket. The idea is to reverse at the part where Chloe reveals it -- The player is required to memorize very certain details which is kinda neat. The whole concept of dialogue being compressed into simply paragon and renegade in recent years with BioWare as an excuse to make CINEMATIC STORYTELLING is jarring.

Inquisition has been an improvement in regards to characterization and everything, as far as I'm concerned, while still stumbling five feet behind the bandwagon.

 

There's a lot to be done with dialogue beyond streamlining into this pretense of a CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE.

 

But, whatever, Mass Effect doesn't interest me, anyway.



#165
TheChris92

TheChris92
  • Members
  • 10 631 messages

I think they could learn to never ever incorporate stupid teen lingo in their dialogue.

 

Next up: What can Bioware and MEA learn from Tales from the Borderlands?

How to do humor right -- Or how to be awesome in general. The game is awesome.


  • Iakus aime ceci

#166
o Ventus

o Ventus
  • Members
  • 17 255 messages

How to do humor right -- Or how to be awesome in general. The game is awesome.

 

It's tied with The Wolf Among Us for my favorite Telltale game.


  • Iakus aime ceci

#167
Ahglock

Ahglock
  • Members
  • 3 660 messages

And more importantly, how could you figure it would have given a better conclusion ? Because on this forum there are people who still lament the "original dark energy ending" even though it would have resulted in a bigger clusterfuck than what we got.


Maybe. It was a concept with no flesh on it, I'm not even sure if had bones yet to put flesh on. If they had stuck with dark energy we have no idea of where it would go after dozens of rewrites.

I'll admit from what I've heard it sounded pretty bad. But broken AI trope isn't any better. Don't get me wrong I loved I-Robot because will smith is an entertaining action movie guy but it's been done to death.

#168
General TSAR

General TSAR
  • Members
  • 4 384 messages

I had to dig this thread up just to comment on this.

- How natural and real the character interactions felt, on the whole.

 

"Holy sh.t, are you cereal? I'm you, dumbas.."

"Why look. There's an otter in my water."

"I see the real max is back...so, how was your time trip, dude?"

"You're Max-Fuking-Caufield, Time Warrior."

"Those were my beans, Max...those were my fuking beans!!!"

"Wowser."

 

Who the hell talks like that?



#169
o Ventus

o Ventus
  • Members
  • 17 255 messages

I had to dig this thread up just to comment on this.

 

"Holy sh.t, are you cereal? I'm you, dumbas.."

"Why look. There's an otter in my water."

"I see the real max is back...so, how was your time trip, dude?"

"You're Max-Fuking-Caufield, Time Warrior."

"Those were my beans, Max...those were my fuking beans!!!"

"Wowser."

 

Who the hell talks like that?

 

Teenagers, apparently. 

 

Though, speaking as someone who graduated high school last year, I can assure you that teenagers don't actually say "cereal" or "wowsers" or "dude". Not anywhere on the East coast anyway. Dontnod did their research for LiS in Washington and Oregon, so maybe the inbreds in the hills over there talk like that, but not people from actual civilization.



#170
AresKeith

AresKeith
  • Members
  • 34 128 messages

I had to dig this thread up just to comment on this.

"Those were my beans, Max...those were my fuking beans!!!"

 

Best line in the whole game tbh

 

"I was eating those beans!" :P



#171
goishen

goishen
  • Members
  • 2 427 messages

Teenagers, apparently. 

 

Though, speaking as someone who graduated high school last year, I can assure you that teenagers don't actually say "cereal" or "wowsers" or "dude". Not anywhere on the East coast anyway. Dontnod did their research for LiS in Washington and Oregon, so maybe the inbreds in the hills over there talk like that, but not people from actual civilization.

 

 

I say wowsers and dude all the damn time.  I guess that says something for aging middle aged gamers then, no?



#172
o Ventus

o Ventus
  • Members
  • 17 255 messages

I say wowsers and dude all the damn time.  I guess that says something for aging middle aged gamers then, no?

 

I guess it would say that you're trying really hard to be hip and one of the kids.



#173
goishen

goishen
  • Members
  • 2 427 messages

No, not really.   I would say that I've been saying it for years, and it just kind'a stuck.



#174
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 297 messages

Teenagers, apparently. 

 

Though, speaking as someone who graduated high school last year, I can assure you that teenagers don't actually say "cereal" or "wowsers" or "dude". Not anywhere on the East coast anyway. Dontnod did their research for LiS in Washington and Oregon, so maybe the inbreds in the hills over there talk like that, but not people from actual civilization.

To be fair, it got better with later episodes.  And made "hella" to be an affectation specific to Chloe.


  • KaiserShep aime ceci

#175
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 815 messages

Teenagers, apparently. 
 
Though, speaking as someone who graduated high school last year, I can assure you that teenagers don't actually say "cereal" or "wowsers" or "dude". Not anywhere on the East coast anyway. Dontnod did their research for LiS in Washington and Oregon, so maybe the inbreds in the hills over there talk like that, but not people from actual civilization.


Can't speak on cereal or wowsers, but I do hear dude on occasion when stuck with a bunch of highschoolers on commute, at least here in NYC.