267 réponses à ce sujet

[BatarianBob]

You can't out-Bethesda Bethesda. They do their thing, and it's awesome, but that doesn't mean everyone else should ape it.

[spinachdiaper]

How about story and exploration as a masterfully interwoven experience?

[IAmNotHere]

I like story as much as I like exploration but if I have to choose one over another, give me the story.

 

What I think Andromeda needs is side quests like in ME1. If you look really close, ME1 side quests are just like ME2 side quests: go there and kill everybody. Except ME1 side quests actually had a story related to them (and some of them had a good story, related to the main story) while ME2 side quests were go-there-and-kill-everybody quests and nothing else, which I consider very boring

 

What I'd like to see in ME:A are good side quest with good stories, some of them with choices that will influence the ending, plus some nice exploring (and hopefully the Mako, because I loved to throw myself out of the top of a big big hill with the Mako. And killing thresher maws with the Mako. And those turrets. And the enemy camp down the hill. So much fun)

[wright1978]

Sorry no. Less exploration, more story.

[spinachdiaper]

ME:A shouldn't be 100% railed and linear story areas.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

BioWare's biggest strength has always been in their stories, characters and lore, though. And I dare say they know it very well. (David Gaider said himself that what he thought BW could do best were characters.) Shooting is nice but it wouldn't be a BioWare game if it didn't have something else going on. Multiplayer wasn't even part of BW games until recently. At least not in the traditional sense. In Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2, you could join or open a server to play the official campaign and other modules. It's not what the games became famous for, however. It's not what made BW famous. And I don't think I would be half as obsessed with BW games if they didn't put all that emphasis on world-building, story and characters, either. I have other games that serve well when I just want to spend my time shooting space zombies and the like. But I expect more from BioWare.

 

Moreover, games are an art form and it's up to their makers what they want to make them into. They can focus on different things. Games can consist of different things. Like making the stories good. Saying games aren't about stories is throwing all the games with great stories that we've already had out of the airlock. I think that BioWare offers something not every company does and that's exactly what makes their games unique, fresh and fun to play. Take away the stories, characters, the colourful worlds and you have yet another generic shooter/dungeon crawler. I can pick among dozens of such titles already.

 

I disagree. I think that Bioware's biggest strengths are their characters, their gameplay and their soundtracks. KOTOR, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins all have excellent gameplay that encourage various builds and playstyles. The Mass Effect series has stellar soundtracks, and KOTOR's soundtrack was great, too.

 

Their lore and their stories are generally not very good. KOTOR's was quite good (not revolutionary in this day and age, but when it came out, people were flabbergasted by the plot twists). Mass Effect had enormous turnover in the lore department that caused subjects to constantly get retconned and replaced, to say nothing of a story that still doesn't make a whole lot of sense even after their second, third and fourth chances to fix the endings that they got with Extended Cut and DLCs. Bethesda on the other hand delivers great lore and great stories. Morrowind had a wonderful story. Fallout 3, Oblivion and New Vegas each had good stories. Skyrim's was very simple, but it was good for this reason. Very basic stuff, but it wasn't a baffling slog. The narrative is very clear about who you are and what you must do.

 

Of course, Bethesda doesn't do characters like Bioware does. No one really does. If you want a strong, character-focused game experience, you'll be hard-pressed to do better than Bioware games, and I'm just fine with that. I think that element is the one they need to focus on the most, because that's one that has attracted and maintained a dedicated, loyal, niche following of gamers. It's kind of their signature, so if there's anything that gets inordinate attention, it should be fleshing out the characters even more.

[Keitaro57]

Excuse me but somebody in this thread says that DAI is a GOTY? Probably not the PS360 versions whose buyers get totally screwed, paying a fullprice pile of crap who will never be patched. They aimed to ripoff money of the oldgen fans and succeed at taking their customers as ***holes, yeah. But this game is so bad for me that the only version of MEA that I will get will come from Pirate Bay : EAware will never see again my money.

[Vanilka]

I disagree. I think that Bioware's biggest strengths are their characters, their gameplay and their soundtracks. KOTOR, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins all have excellent gameplay that encourage various builds and playstyles. The Mass Effect series has stellar soundtracks, and KOTOR's soundtrack was great, too.

 

Their lore and their stories are generally not very good. KOTOR's was quite good (not revolutionary in this day and age, but when it came out, people were flabbergasted by the plot twists). Mass Effect had enormous turnover in the lore department that caused subjects to constantly get retconned and replaced, to say nothing of a story that still doesn't make a whole lot of sense even after their second, third and fourth chances to fix the endings that they got with Extended Cut and DLCs. Bethesda on the other hand delivers great lore and great stories. Morrowind had a wonderful story. Fallout 3, Oblivion and New Vegas each had good stories. Skyrim's was very simple, but it was good for this reason. Very basic stuff, but it wasn't a baffling slog. The narrative is very clear about who you are and what you must do.

 

Of course, Bethesda doesn't do characters like Bioware does. No one really does. If you want a strong, character-focused game experience, you'll be hard-pressed to do better than Bioware games, and I'm just fine with that. I think that element is the one they need to focus on the most, because that's one that has attracted and maintained a dedicated, loyal, niche following of gamers. It's kind of their signature, so if there's anything that gets inordinate attention, it should be fleshing out the characters even more.

 

I guess we see it differently then, but that's fine. You make some interesting points, however. I agree that the gameplay in BW games is usually a lot fun and offers tons of variety and different approaches. I also agree that the soundtracks are excellent. Soundtrack has never really been a selling point for me, however. I can't say that "I've bought this game and like it a lot mainly because I like the music," I don't think. Do I think BW can do it very well and do I think it's important for overall experience? Sure! Gameplay is also not the main reason why I buy BioWare games exactly, although I do consider it very important. It's just that it's not something that drags me in first and foremost. Do I hope the gameplay will be good? Yes! Always. But the characters, stories and lore are simply what stands out for me the most. It's something I consider a signature element in BW games. If you don't see it that way, well, I can respect that.

 

I also wasn't speaking strictly Mass Effect because I don't believe especially ME2 and ME3 have such great writing when it comes to the story and perhaps lore. They liked stomping on ME1 way too much, there's a lot of nonsense moments, etc. They still have quite enjoyable, colourful stories and a lot going on, in my opinion. I've still had a great time with them. Skyrim, in comparison, feels rather... meh... to me. I completely lost interest in it after picking up Mass Effect. But perhaps that's just me. Either way, we still have Neverwinter Nights (Especially Hordes of the Underdark.), Dragon Age: Origins, etc. as examples of BioWare's world-building, characterisation, and storytelling. I'd point those out first and foremost. Sure, NWN is old, but it's what got me into BW games and their way of handling things in the first place.

 

I admit I've never played all of The Elder Scrolls games so I can't compare. Not yet anyway. I randomly picked up Skyrim some time ago and while I liked the game and had fun with it for quite a while, it just felt like it didn't have much going on. Even when I followed the main storyline, it just felt sort of bland. Like, visit a town to warn the jarl about a dragon, go kill some dragon, climb a mountain to talk to a few dudes, then run from one side of the map to the other in order to kill a dragon... I enjoyed just slashing my way through enemies for some time and staring at the scenery, there were a few interesting quests here and there like Blood on the Ice, but I could never bring myself to actually finish the main storyline and I don't currently see myself getting back to any of it. I've heard the other games are better in the terms of story, though.

 

Either way, thanks for your opinion. It's interesting to see another point of view.

[CYRAX470]

If that leak will be anything to go by. It sounds like story and exploration are going to focused on immensely.

[Kierro Ren]

Don't be serious.... because HELL NO!!!

[ExoGeniVI]

We all know what happened when BioWare tried to do that... Inquisition *cough* *cough*

[In Exile]

Because exploration in its self is a story. Traversing alien planets in different galaxy opens more story opportunities that the player can create for themselves than just go here and kill this. Inquisition did this perfectly as the area had a story of their own, you could tell just looking at them. Hopefully the main story takes a backseat.

Bioware please add more emphasis and exploring planets than adding side quest/filler just to pad out the game.

Sending a pad of paper with the game would also allow the player to invent a lot of stories. In fact, if they just sent an empty box (or if downloading the game just opened a blank screen blaring white noise) the imagination possibilities would be near endless!

I don't see why "more exploration" would require "less story". We can talk about having a story that's less on rails to explore more - TW3 does this versus TW2 and it works well. But why specifically would you need LESS story?

[katerinafm]

 Inquisition did this perfectly as the area had a story of their own, you could tell just looking at them.

 

Seriously? I mean I'm not saying that this wasn't done to some degree, but ALL their maps relied on this and we basically ended up with huge maps with not much to do or interesting quests. A couple of maps were nice to run through, but the rest were pretty dull.

 

Now,  Mass effect has the chance to do this to some degree and do it better, since we would be exploring new planets and large spaces with a couple of interesting bits would make more sense. If THAT is done like in Mass effect 1, then okay. But that doesn't mean I want less story, no way.

[JamieCOTC]

In Skyrim you are invited to make your own stories through exploration. BioWare's idea of exploration is to gain experience points.

[In Exile]

In Skyrim you are invited to make your own stories through exploration. BioWare's idea of exploration is to gain experience points.

I wouldn't say you're "invited". You can invent reasons for doing whatever it is you're doing, but that's also true in DAI. I'm willing to bet any sum of money that this niche view of Skyrim isn't really why it's exploration is a success, anymore than it explains the success of other open world games like GTA.

[deuce985]

Bioware's obvious strength has always been their characters and their development. Exploration has always been something they've done off to the side and rarely feels like a priority in their games. Even DAI which has a lot of emphasis on exploration you end up with zones that feel lifeless in parts. They should stick to what they're good at and improve on it. Basically, DAI was a good idea but poorly executed in the exploration area and side content. I loved it but I'm expecting ME:A to improve on everything DAI did and vastly improve on side content. If it doesn't, I'll be extremely disappointed especially when you consider how long it was in development.

 

If they were to improve only one area I'd hope they learned their lessons in DAI on how to tie a big open world and narrative together. Best game for inspiration on that is obviously Witcher 3 and possibly their older game Baldur's Gate 2. The villain was way too much in the background in DAI and the overall story was incredibly weak. It didn't lack character development and very good writing on the characters which should always be a priority in a Bioware game, IMO.

[wolfsite]

I wouldn't say you're "invited". You can invent reasons for doing whatever it is you're doing, but that's also true in DAI. I'm willing to bet any sum of money that this niche view of Skyrim isn't really why it's exploration is a success, anymore than it explains the success of other open world games like GTA.

The Reason for the Elder Scrolls games success is the mods.  Lets be honest,  this is the main reason why the games have such a strong community is because you can actively add and change things within the game with your own created content or the content of others.  This is probably why the main stories tend to be so simple and repetitive (name a main Elder Scrolls game were you don't start out as a prisoner that coincidentally has a great destiny that has you face off against a Daedra in some form).

 

Hell the running joke is that Bethesda doesn't bug check there games is because the community can fix that stuff for them.

[In Exile]

The Reason for the Elder Scrolls games success is the mods.  Lets be honest,  this is the main reason why the games have such a strong community is because you can actively add and change things within the game with your own created content or the content of others.  This is probably why the main stories tend to be so simple and repetitive (name a main Elder Scrolls game were you don't start out as a prisoner that coincidentally has a great destiny that has you face off against a Daedra in some form).

 

Hell the running joke is that Bethesda doesn't bug check there games is because the community can fix that stuff for them.

 

It can't be mods - Skyrim sold more on console than PC. Sure they have a strong following and community, and I think their overall positive buzz is a big part of their success, but the actual sales on 360/PS3 etc. were a huge part of that sales success, as is the case for NV and FO3. Hell, Skyrim is straight up unplayable after a time on PS3. 

[ShadyKat]

Because exploration in its self is a story. Traversing alien planets in different galaxy opens more story opportunities that the player can create for themselves than just go here and kill this. Inquisition did this perfectly as the area had a story of their own, you could tell just looking at them. Hopefully the main story takes a backseat.
 
Bioware please add more emphasis and exploring planets than adding side quest/filler just to pad out the game.

No thank you.

Story is far more important than 80 hours of exploring the same damn caves!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If I want a game with beautiful environments, a half-assed plot (?) a lot of "lore" and great game play, I'll play Destiny.

 

If I want a game with a solid plot, beautiful environments and crappy gameplay, I'll play The Witcher 3.

 

But this time I want a game with a solid plot, great characters, beautiful environments, and solid game play. So how about it, Mass Effect: Andromeda?

[AlanC9]

Excuse me but somebody in this thread says that DAI is a GOTY? Probably not the PS360 versions whose buyers get totally screwed, paying a fullprice pile of crap who will never be patched. They aimed to ripoff money of the oldgen fans and succeed at taking their customers as ***holes, yeah. But this game is so bad for me that the only version of MEA that I will get will come from Pirate Bay : EAware will never see again my money.

If you want to take a principled stand here, shouldn't you not play ME:A at all?

[X Equestris]

Because it failed miserably in outselling its competitors, and it did so to such a degree that, despite being "BioWares most succesful launch", EA still refuses to release actual sales numbers.

EA doesn't release sales numbers for ANYTHING anymore. Not even flagships like FIFA and Battlefield

[themikefest]

For me, Biowares strength is making games that has replay value

[sjsharp2011]

For me, Biowares strength is making games that has replay value

yeah I agree as all the games Biowaer have done at least all the ones I've bought I've wanted to do moer than 1 playthrough of even DAI falls into that categpory as I have a 5th playthrough planned which I'l be doing soon after I've done DA2 of course

[afgncaap7]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more emphasis on exploration, especially with how Andromeda seems to be focused on exploring a new galaxy. But Mass Effect is not Skyrim. The defining characteristic of this franchise is character interaction. There's nothing wrong with putting more or less emphasis on certain elements like combat or exploration, but they must not come at the cost of the narrative. Just look at what happened with ME3.