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Will ME4 feature the Milky Way Galaxy at all?


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#51
rocklikeafool

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As one of the people who've been "whining for years about the endings", abandoning the Milky Way has been the single most insulting thing they've done since shipping ME3 with that ****ing ending. They have basically sacrificed the entire galaxy and every iconic place, every iconic plot, every single iconic goddamn thing in it that made the trilogy so good, just to avoid having to take a stance on the endings. This goes lights years over and beyond artistic integrity, this is a certain someone's *coughsupermaccough* ego telling the ending-critical part of the fanbase to go copulate with themselves for even suggesting the ending wasn't a masterpiece to end all masterpieces.

And people like you are the whole damn reason they decided to do an entirely new galaxy as the setting. Also, the ending to ME3 was actually decent. People always complain about it, but the reality is...it actually wrapped everything up in a concise fashion. (That's what endings should do, folks!)

 

The thing is, a new setting allows them to create new iconic places, new iconic plots, etc. If you can't stand that, then why are you even here, commenting on ME4?!


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#52
Iakus

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And people like you are the whole damn reason they decided to do an entirely new galaxy as the setting. 

No, the fact that they rewrote the entire freaking GALAXY in several mutually exclusive ways trashed the setting.  Even if the endings were all awesome, they would has rendered the galaxy unusable.  

 

It's called not thinking through the consequences of thier actions

 

 

Also, the ending to ME3 was actually decent. 

The endings sucked to the point where I uninstalled the games and wished I never heard of Mass Effect

 

 

People always complain about it, but the reality is...it actually wrapped everything up in a concise fashion. (That's what endings should do, folks!)

  Yeah, it wrapped things up so well it required an Extended Cut, a paid DLC, and the endings are still unpopular.

 

and oh yeah, still requires moving the setting millions of light years away to be rid of the stench


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#53
EliotNesss

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@Acian who said:

"They have basically sacrificed the entire galaxy and every iconic place, every iconic plot, every single iconic goddamn thing in it that made the trilogy so good, just to avoid having to take a stance on the endings. This goes lights years over and beyond artistic integrity, this is a certain someone's *coughsupermaccough* ego telling the ending-critical part of the fanbase to go copulate with themselves for even suggesting the ending wasn't a masterpiece to end all masterpieces."

 

Wow! That is a mouth full of ME haterade. Are you even going to bother playing ME-A? There was never any way humanly possible for Bioware to satisfy anyone in ME3, who had a fixed perspective on the "superiority" of their expected outcome. Had they satisfied the lust for a "right choice". They would have essentially closed the door on the entire ME IP! People who are carping and whining about Bioware's decision to make the endings about choices. Especially when the entire damn trilogy was about nothing but choices. Misses the entire point of even playing the game IMO. So they didn't give you the choice you liked. Was that because of them or your own flawed expectations. The choices related to the way you built the only unfixed perspective character (Shepard) in the entire Galaxy in that saga. IMO Bioware got it just right! By ending it the way they did, they freed us to replay the game a myriad of ways over & over again. Just to match and shape our Shepard to the inevitable 4 fixed endings. And it leaves completely open the possibility that Bioware can integrate or create an entirely new Shepard narrative in a future new trilogy (after Andromeda).

 

They absolutely don't need to canonize any one of the ME3 endings to return Shepard, or Milky Way relevance in a future ME saga. You have no idea how they will weave the choices in the Andromeda series relative to available choices in a future new series that could easily blend outcomes from both. This is really simple. It's called creative/ideation writing. Some of it is well thought out in advance and included in the long range IP critical path. Other parts are more organic. And are inserted from a myriad of sources and inputs. Including freebies from the fan base. Indoctrination theory may or may not be one of those. Leviathan or even other life forces even more ominous than the Reapers that could exist in "Dark Space" between galaxies, may or may not be another. More dangerous and sinister forces may await us in the larger Andromeda Galaxy. But how they relate to the Milky Way trilogy, along with the Andromeda trilogy can only be revealed in a future saga. Andromeda will expose its Leviathans, mysteries and frustrating paradoxes (like the Milky Way Endings) too.

 

My humble suggestion to all of those who hate the Milky Way/Shepard/Reaper endings, is to "just chill". Enjoy it for what it was (a segment of a much bigger and greater story). Be patient and more open to ideas that don't match your own by 100%. And just enjoy the continuing unfolding of the Mass Effect Universe!



#54
in it for the lolz

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No, the fact that they rewrote the entire freaking GALAXY in several mutually exclusive ways trashed the setting.  Even if the endings were all awesome, they would has rendered the galaxy unusable.  

 

It's called not thinking through the consequences of thier actions

 

The endings sucked to the point where I uninstalled the games and wished I never heard of Mass Effect

 

  Yeah, it wrapped things up so well it required an Extended Cut, a paid DLC, and the endings are still unpopular.

 

and oh yeah, still requires moving the setting millions of light years away to be rid of the stench

True that.

f63296bcf4b28f5306b73959f356333a.gif



#55
Arcian

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@Acian who said:
"They have basically sacrificed the entire galaxy and every iconic place, every iconic plot, every single iconic goddamn thing in it that made the trilogy so good, just to avoid having to take a stance on the endings. This goes lights years over and beyond artistic integrity, this is a certain someone's *coughsupermaccough* ego telling the ending-critical part of the fanbase to go copulate with themselves for even suggesting the ending wasn't a masterpiece to end all masterpieces."
 
Wow! That is a mouth full of ME haterade. Are you even going to bother playing ME-A?

Sure, but I'm not expecting it to be even remotely good.
 

There was never any way humanly possible for Bioware to satisfy anyone in ME3, who had a fixed perspective on the "superiority" of their expected outcome. Had they satisfied the lust for a "right choice". They would have essentially closed the door on the entire ME IP! People who are carping and whining about Bioware's decision to make the endings about choices. Especially when the entire damn trilogy was about nothing but choices. Misses the entire point of even playing the game IMO. So they didn't give you the choice you liked.

I didn't give a rat's ass about the choices themselves. I wasn't even bothered by Shepard dying. I had seen that coming since the first game. What I did give a rat's ass about was that every choice ruined the galaxy for future Mass Effect stories, for future protagonists (some of which could have been aliens). One ending killed off one of the most iconic species in the series, another let the Reapers walk off scot free from 1 billion years of atrocities and the third just raped any semblance of scientific validity the franchise had left.

In my view, the most important character in Mass Effect wasn't Shepard, but the galaxy itself... and BioWare just torched it like it never meant anything to begin with.
 

Was that because of them or your own flawed expectations. The choices related to the way you built the only unfixed perspective character (Shepard) in the entire Galaxy in that saga. IMO Bioware got it just right! By ending it the way they did, they freed us to replay the game a myriad of ways over & over again. Just to match and shape our Shepard to the inevitable 4 fixed endings. And it leaves completely open the possibility that Bioware can integrate or create an entirely new Shepard narrative in a future new trilogy (after Andromeda).

"Flawed expectations."

 

My sole expectation was that they wouldn't destroy the entire galaxy and ruin opportunities for future Mass Effect stories set in the Milky Way. An expectation that's so narrowly specific it's almost impressive how they still managed to let me down.

 

And let's be real here, there's only so many times you can replay the same, slightly differently colored ending. Shepard's dead, s/he ain't coming back. There won't ever be a "new Shepard narrative".
 

They absolutely don't need to canonize any one of the ME3 endings to return Shepard, or Milky Way relevance in a future ME saga. You have no idea how they will weave the choices in the Andromeda series relative to available choices in a future new series that could easily blend outcomes from both.

Short of retconning the endings or canonizing one of them, they're not going back to the Milky Way. Ever.
 

This is really simple. It's called creative/ideation writing. Some of it is well thought out in advance and included in the long range IP critical path.

You give BioWare waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more credit than they deserve. They couldn't even plan a single trilogy in a coherent, consistent manner.
 

Other parts are more organic. And are inserted from a myriad of sources and inputs. Including freebies from the fan base. Indoctrination theory may or may not be one of those. Leviathan or even other life forces even more ominous than the Reapers that could exist in "Dark Space" between galaxies, may or may not be another. But how they relate to the Milky Way trilogy, along with the Andromeda trilogy can only be revealed in a future saga. Andromeda will expose its Leviathans, mysteries and frustrating paradoxes (like the Milky Way Endings) too.

But I don't give a sh!t about Andromeda. I don't live there. Earth isn't there. Palaven isn't there. Sur'Kesh isn't there. Tuchanka isn't there. What interested me about the future of Mass Effect was how the species would progress and interact technologically, politically and militarily after the Reaper threat had ceased looming over the galaxy.

 

Instead we get Dora the Space Explorer turning over Andromedan rocks for loot and engaging in bedsheet tumbling with the locals.
 

My humble suggestion to all of those who hate the Milky Way/Shepard/Reaper endings, is to "just chill". Enjoy it for what it was (a segment of a much bigger and greater story). Be patient and more open to ideas that don't match your own by 100%. And just enjoy the continuing unfolding of the Mass Effect Universe!

So you are seriously asking us to trust that BioWare ruining the original trilogy was all just a part of their overarching plan for the franchise?

I mean, how dumb do you think we are?


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#56
Iakus

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I didn't give a rat's ass about the choices themselves. I wasn't even bothered by Shepard dying. I had seen that coming since the first game. What I did give a rat's ass about was that every choice ruined the galaxy for future Mass Effect stories, for future protagonists (some of which could have been aliens). One ending killed off one of the most iconic species in the series, another let the Reapers walk off scot free from 1 billion years of atrocities and the third just raped any semblance of scientific validity the franchise had left.
 

Don't forget the passive-aggressive "Don't like our endings?  Fine!  Rocks fall, everyone dies!"


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#57
AlanC9

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I fail to see how this is "being nice" to anyone. This is a mess of their own making.

Yeah, but that mess was already made before they decided on this approach to ME:A.

No one here -- literally no one -- has been more vociferous than you have about his need to get away from the endings. (Some try --Arcian's doing nicely -- but no one else has your staying power.)

Well, we're getting away. You'll even be able to pretend that MEHEM is real.

#58
Arcian

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And people like you are the whole damn reason they decided to do an entirely new galaxy as the setting.

x8r4ctJ.gif
 

Also, the ending to ME3 was actually decent. People always complain about it, but the reality is...it actually wrapped everything up in a concise fashion. (That's what endings should do, folks!)

Your definition of "decent" and "concise" are pretty off the mark.
 

The thing is, a new setting allows them to create new iconic places, new iconic plots, etc. If you can't stand that, then why are you even here, commenting on ME4?!

Because I want my displeasure to be heard. I'm not going to sit idly by and watch BioWare slowly ruin the only sci-fi RPG I have ever cared about.

What is this site to you, anyway? A forum for fair and equal discussion or an echo chamber where no criticism is allowed?



#59
Arcian

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Yeah, but that mess was already made before they decided on this approach to ME:A.

No one here -- literally no one -- has been more vociferous than you have about his need to get away from the endings. Well, we're getting away.

In the wrong direction.



#60
AlanC9

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As one of the people who've been "whining for years about the endings", abandoning the Milky Way has been the single most insulting thing they've done since shipping ME3 with that ****ing ending. They have basically sacrificed the entire galaxy and every iconic place, every iconic plot, every single iconic goddamn thing in it that made the trilogy so good, just to avoid having to take a stance on the endings. This goes lights years over and beyond artistic integrity, this is a certain someone's *coughsupermaccough* ego telling the ending-critical part of the fanbase to go copulate with themselves for even suggesting the ending wasn't a masterpiece to end all masterpieces.

That depends on what you mean by "take a stance on the endings." Can you elaborate? Are you looking for a particular stance, or would any stance do?

For instance, what if they'd straight-up canonized Destroy? No IT, no MEHEM, no geth. Better? That was my preferred continuation, FWIW. (I don't think RPG choices should last longer than the PC who made them, so canonization doesn't bother me.)

#61
Iakus

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Yeah, but that mess was already made before they decided on this approach to ME:A.

No one here -- literally no one -- has been more vociferous than you have about his need to get away from the endings. (Some try --Arcian's doing nicely -- but no one else has your staying power.)

Well, we're getting away. You'll even be able to pretend that MEHEM is real.

And as I've said, I'm all for that (not happy with it, as such.  But there are no good options as long as the ME3 endings exist), if it can be done in a lore friendly way.

 

Sadly, past experience has led me to believe that doing so is going to involve a moose, a squirrel, and a magic hat.

 

rocky-bullwinkle.jpg

 

I mean, you can't seriously tell me that "Let's move to Andromeda!" was planned out before the ME3 fallout began, can you?  Heck, I still believe ME3 was meant to be the last Mass Effect game, full stop.


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#62
rocklikeafool

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No, the fact that they rewrote the entire freaking GALAXY in several mutually exclusive ways trashed the setting.  Even if the endings were all awesome, they would has rendered the galaxy unusable.  

 

It's called not thinking through the consequences of thier actions

 

The endings sucked to the point where I uninstalled the games and wished I never heard of Mass Effect

 

  Yeah, it wrapped things up so well it required an Extended Cut, a paid DLC, and the endings are still unpopular.

 

and oh yeah, still requires moving the setting millions of light years away to be rid of the stench

1081.gif



#63
Hanako Ikezawa

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  Yeah, it wrapped things up so well it required an Extended Cut, a paid DLC, and the endings are still unpopular.

 

and oh yeah, still requires moving the setting millions of light years away to be rid of the stench

The Extended Cut was a free DLC. Nobody had to pay for it other than the people at Bioware and EA.


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#64
Dean_the_Young

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Codex: The Milky Way

 

There's not much to be said of the Milky Way, as [redacted] because [redacted] and Commander Shepard [redacted]

 

In fact, we're not even sure if Commander Shepard was a male or a female, but historians agree that the Shepard was a [redacted].



#65
Drone223

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I mean, you can't seriously tell me that "Let's move to Andromeda!" was planned out before the ME3 fallout began, can you? 

Indeed if it was planned then it would've been a decent amount of build up for it in ME3 but its quite evident there was none.



#66
CYRAX470

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The Extended Cut was a free DLC. Nobody had to pay for it other than the people at Bioware and EA.

 

He means Leviathan.


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#67
Arcian

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That depends on what you mean by "take a stance on the endings." Can you elaborate? Are you looking for a particular stance, or would any stance do?

Ideally I'd want them to just admit the endings were a mistake and promise to disregard them when making future Mass Effect games so that the Milky Way storyline can continue. But honestly, I'd be satisfied with BioWare just having an open discussion about the endings with the fans where they explain their design decisions, why they thought the endings they shipped were a good idea, if they at any level expected them to be well received by the fans and why they felt the need to completely destroy everything they built up over the course of the trilogy in the last 5 minutes of the game and make it infinitely more difficult for new games to be set in the Milky Way.

 

We have never actually heard BioWare's side of it, besides the oft repeated "We stick by our artistic integrity." All that means is that they stand by their decision and refuse to talk about it, which is about as mature as a 3 year old refusing to eat his veggies.



#68
EliotNesss

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@ Arcian:

Thanks for the point by point response. I respect your pov. Even though I completely disagree with your conclusions. I am not trying to change your mind. Or even influence it. I am suggesting that those of us who like or love ME Trilogy see all of this very differently from you and others who share your pov. First and foremost is the fact that ME, in all of its past, present and future iterations is simply a science based fiction game. A completely made up, fictional universe which Bioware is unfolding in episodes/sagas/trilogies/DLC addons. Anything is possible within that kind of creative construct. A scenario can be based on fact, assumptions, myth, history or any other context. And be completely legit. Your own buy-in to the story (post the ending) actually validates that reality. The ending ruined it for you. For most others it meant nothing (or  something very good). Following is my response to your points.

 

1. "And let's be real here, there's only so many times you can replay the same, slightly differently colored ending. Shepard's dead, s/he ain't coming back. There won't ever be a "new Shepard narrative".

Maybe. Maybe not. But you don't really know that. He got resurrected from death once (that we know of). He got cloned (Citadel DLC). And Both he and the clone had vague endings. I bet your conclusion would be different if you could see into the future. And find out that the Mass Effect Saga with its multiple Trilogies was always about the ongoing creation and proliferation of life throughout the Cosmos "Universe, Microverse and/or Omniverse". With all of its multiplicity of potential "Parallel Realities".

 

2."Sure, but I'm not expecting it to be even remotely good."

You buy-in to a game on a very different basis than me. I don't mean that as criticism. Only a fact which suggests that I never knowingly buy a game that I don't expect to be "remotely" good. So I will make an assumption that I concede may be completely wrong. I think your plan to buy it is because you are intrigued about the unknown potential of its premise. Especially in relationship to a much bigger ME picture that you don't want to miss.

 

3. "My sole expectation was that they wouldn't destroy the entire galaxy and ruin opportunities for future Mass Effect stories set in the Milky Way. An expectation that's so narrowly specific it's almost impressive how they still managed to let me down."

That may have been your expectation. But it sure wasn't mine and millions of other players. But neither conclusion really matter. Because they didn't destroy the entire galaxy or ruin opportunities for future ME stories in the "Milky Way", as you surmise here. They didn't even do that in the 4th cataclysmic "Destroy" ending which you are referring too. Because even with that scenario; life in the Milky Way Galaxy persisted. Only the Mass Relays were destroyed. The Reapers harvested what they wanted from the dominant MW species. And left promising others to grow and proliferate. Indeed, the great Game, "Kingdoms of Amalur-Reckoning" was based entirely on such a Mass Effect premise (in partnership with Bioware). It started out with a mystery and remnant technology from a Mass Effect "world long lost from events that occurred in a very distant past". If you have not played that remarkable game by the defunct 38 Studios/Big Huge Games, then you missed a gem. Because it was a direct descendant of Mass Effect 3 in the Milky Way Galaxy, that went down a completely different path. And left a lot of questions unanswered. The concept, commerce system, decision tree and combat style was very similar to ME. But it had very unique differences. I won't spoil it for you. But I loved that game. It is Skyrim/ME long. My over arching point is this. Nothing in the MIlky Way was destroyed except an order. Which left completely open the opportunity and possibility for an infinite number of new orders to emerge from an infinite life perspective.

 

4. Shepard's dead, s/he ain't coming back. There won't ever be a "new Shepard narrative".

You are flying blind and completely lost on this one. The only safe thing to say is this. Shepard will not appear in ME-A except for vague references, if Bioware is smart and elusive (which they are), Andromeda needs to stand on its own merit. And present/solve its own mysteries. Bioware can always bridge the realities anyway they want to in the future trilogies. With any kind of narrative they want. They don't need a "Canon Ending" to even do this, as most of the flawed ending crowd assumes. They just need vivid imagination and creativity. Because the bricks are already laid. All 4 endings are organic. Because we were allowed to play them all. So a fictional universe has already been created whereby they are bridged into one. You just have to imagine "Alternate Reality Physics" to grasp that possibility. Even "Indoctrination Theory" is a potential narrative within that possibility. Here is reality. If there is lots of money lost by not bringing Shepard back. Or lots of money gained by bringing Shepard back. Bioware will be all in on that potential. And they left lots of bread crumbs along the trail in the original trilogy to execute such an outcome.

 

5. "Short of retconning the endings or canonizing one of them, they're not going back to the Milky Way. Ever."

Refer to number 4 above to ascertain why I think this assumption is not really even probable. Ever is a very long time. I suspect we won't even approach that major milestone on this game in your lifetime.

 

6. "You give BioWare waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more credit than they deserve. They couldn't even plan a single trilogy in a coherent, consistent manner."

You don't give them enough. Yet they have your interest to peaked, that you comment frequently on their forum about ME. And plan to buy ME-A. Despite your own criticism, low expectations and chagrin about ME Trilogy endings. I think they have you pegged squarely in their crosshairs. IMO, ME Trilogy was executed intentionally incoherent. But was done so in a very predictable and creative manner. I loved it entirely. And that is why I can't wait to play ME-A on day one of its release.

 

7. "​But I don't give a sh!t about Andromeda. I don't live there. Earth isn't there. Palaven isn't there. Sur'Kesh isn't there. Tuchanka isn't there. What interested me about the future of Mass Effect was how the species would progress and interact technologically, politically and militarily after the Reaper threat had ceased looming over the galaxy."

That's akin to saying I don't give a damn about South America, Canada, Japan, or any other nation because Kansas, California, New York, Boston, Chicago, aren't there. And all that interests me is how "human species" from all the other races from other nations on Earth blend together to create a United States of America. Bioware actually gave you the option to play the ME trilogy from that perspective. You're apparently just dissatisfied with their end scenario for you. Meaning; total xenophobic annihilation by a massive foe which unites through assimilation. Which ironically the USA is supposed to actually be about.

 

8. "So you are seriously asking us to trust that BioWare ruining the original trilogy was all just a part of their overarching plan for the franchise?"

In a word; No. Your assumption of "us" is much narrower than you perceive IMO. It is simply you and those Bioware is willing to disregard, if you have no interest in the ME Saga  going forward. Because neither "they" nor "I" view the original ME Trilogy as ruined in any way.

 

9. "We have never actually heard BioWare's side of it, besides the oft repeated "We stick by our artistic integrity."

This is in response to a point you made , which was not specifically made to me. But I propose "we" have never heard from them on it. Because of many of the reasons I laid out above. Meaning: they will make their case in future games/trilogies/DLC. And let us go crazy making up our own meanings.



#69
o Ventus

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A hungry krogan ate the Milky Way.

 

And all the other boys and girls on the Normandy were sad, because all they had to eat were those disgusting candy corns and some Snickers bars.

 

And anybody who willingly eats candy corn has a chemical deficiency in their brain.



#70
Mdizzletr0n

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Sure. It'll be of us leaving it.

#71
DoomsdayDevice

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We have never actually heard BioWare's side of it, besides the oft repeated "We stick by our artistic integrity." All that means is that they stand by their decision and refuse to talk about it, which is about as mature as a 3 year old refusing to eat his veggies.


You know, when the game was first released, they outright said they really wanted to talk about the endings, but they wanted to wait until more people had played it. But then they released the extended cut and never talked about it again. As if the extended cut said it all, which it didn't. It tried to explain some of the oddities and softened the blow somewhat with regard to the relays and the stranded Normandy, but it didn't actually change anything. I'm really frustrated Bioware have never actually engaged in that dialogue.
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#72
Hanako Ikezawa

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He means Leviathan.

But Leviathan doesn't add anything for the endings. It adds to the final dialogue sure, but not the endings themselves. 



#73
Dean_the_Young

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Indeed if it was planned then it would've been a decent amount of build up for it in ME3 but its quite evident there was none.

 

I'm not sure why you'd believe that. Aside from the ME trilogy didn't see a need to build up it's own foreshadowing, ME3 was clearly intended and meant to focus as the climax to Shepard's trilogy. 'Build up' for Andromedea would have been missing the narrative intent.


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#74
AresKeith

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But Leviathan doesn't add anything for the endings. It adds to the final dialogue sure, but not the endings themselves. 

 

Leviathan added actual foreshadow to the Catalyst which should have been in the main game



#75
themikefest

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Too bad Shepard wasn't able to ask Leviathan about what the catalyst is, but was able to ask about the crucible