181 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Ok, that's rumors again. Bioware said that the ending was not created at the last minute. Drew Karpyphyn talked about the fact that the ending used what they were thinking about the ending ("From what I hear, the basic concept of the original ending is there, though some details may have been tweaked")[/size]. 
 

Yes. We have the leaked script outline, which is from early enough in the process that substantial parts of the game were rewritten afterwards. The endings in the outline are what we got, just less-detailed.

[danivasnormandy]

Bioware said that E.A. didn't interfere in Mass Effect 3 development. And why would they interfere in something that sells well? (http://www.escapistm...reative-Control)

 

Drew karpyphyn wasn't on board because he wanted to write his own book. There was no problem (proof : he went back). You overestimated the writer's job. As a teamjob, the Mass Effect project is made by several people. Not only writers. You forget the most important people : the producers. If you have seen what is needed to work as a writer at Bioware, you must have noticed that the writer must create the form for the producers ideas. Why Casey Hudson talked so much about Mass Effect ? Just because it was his project! He was the one who decided the direction. Changing Drew Karpyphyn was not so important actually. (Gibeau from EA : "Casey is an artist. He made a choice about the story that he [and the team] wanted to tell as related to Mass Effect 3. And we didn't intervene.")

 

Ok, that's rumors again. Bioware said that the ending was not created at the last minute. Drew Karpyphyn talked about the fact that the ending used what they were thinking about the ending ("From what I hear, the basic concept of the original ending is there, though some details may have been tweaked"). 

 

Ok you write at a level where you can do that. Sorry but when you have a project that will take you almost 10 years, you don't clearly see what the ending will be. that's what happens when you write at professional level. Writing isn't about events, it's about form, structures, ideas etc... Bioware had an idea, quite vague, for the ending. Writing will change your ideas so having a vague idea is enough.

Well thanks for helping clearing that up, I guess I'm still trying to understand where did the ending go wrong in terms of the development process. If they did have those original ideas from the beginning and weren't rushed or anything and is all rumors, then it makes it the more frustrating that the ending was plagued by so many problems given the impeccable execution of all the other parts of the game, so I guess we just wished they could have maintained that level all through the end right?

 

And you're right about the writing process in a game being more of a team oriented effort as well as being a project that took 10 years, so even if they had ideas from its conception of course they are bound to change overtime. I guess I just mentioned my personal approach to writing stories out of frustration with stories that start up well and go on in all sorts of directions and lack cohesion by the end, but that shouldn't be the case with ME because of the very nature of game storytelling and the fact that at least they were trying something new.

 

Speaking about Drew Karpyphyn I did read something about the original ideas and about a Dark Energy ending, I think some of you agree that looked like a better idea. As much as I enjoyed the ending for what it was, it's hard to argue against the crazy circular logic of the Catalyst and the whole synthetics vs organics issue. If we already explored that with the Geth/Quarians why didn't they do for something more "out there" Oh well...

[FOZ289]

The Crucible as a deus ex machina never bothered me because ME1 showed how strong just a single Reaper was.  I always assumed there was going to be a weapon or device specifically for fighting the Reapers, because there was absolutely no way the galaxy could beat them in brute force.  The problem is, that should have been part of Mass Effect 2's plot.  Since ME2 is essentially one big sidestory to introduce canon characters and frame events for ME3, how the Reapers are going to be defeated ended up being crammed into the first 30 minutes of ME3 and haphazardly mentioned as "oh yeah we can totally kill all of the Reapers now, better get on that."  

 

And if there was indeed a change in writing process, and I assume there was given that the lead writer for the series left, it's definitely apparent.  Recycling the Geth-Quarian conflict, which is only one of numerous themes in the entire series, and attempting to frame it as the series' defining theme was a mistake to begin with, but portraying it in a way that directly contradicts itself was a fatal hole.  How is synthetic life any more predictable than organic life if it has achieved sentience?  The Geth and EDI are already both capable of independent, unpredictable, and irrational behavior.  "Synthetics vs. organics" idiotically places more emphasis on the physical material a being is made out of.  The series touches on the idea of synthetic life having a fundamentally different outlook to organics, but does so in the wrong way.  It suggests that Geth know the exact details of their creation and purpose, and that somehow this leads to them believing organic life does not need to exist; this makes no sense because 1.  They've already defied and moved past their purpose as servants.  It's irrelevant to them, and they now choose their own purpose.  The circumstances of their creation are irrelevant now that they have self-determination.  2.  This implies that organic life cannot also be artificially created and manipulated for a specific purpose, which isn't true.  There's plenty of science fiction out there exploring the psychological differences between "mere humans" and beings who no longer have or never possessed the same wants and needs as them.  But, well, those were books written with analyzing that concept in mind.  Mass Effect 3 is a video game that needs to explain in only a few minutes why the big mean spaceships want to kill everybody.  And as much as I realize the distinction, yeah they did a really bad job here.

[JasonC Shepard]

I haven't been on these forums in years, but I've been replaying the entire series one more time so I figured I'd come back.

The Mass Effect 3 ending is a complete mess, but so is the core game.

There is no pacing, no sense of urgency.  Commander Shepard and his crew can handle the Reaper threat at whatever pace they want.  Earth as the main point of defense makes absolutely no sense, yet the player is constantly reminded of the need to take back Earth first and foremost despite other homeworlds being on the edge of annihilation.  There's no understanding of where the Reapers even came from and how they started their invasion without the Citadel or the Alpha(?) Relay.  Hell, there's not even enough time to create a bond between the Earth and Shepard.  Instead Bioware decided to use the death of a completely unknown child to create some sort of emotional connection with Earth.  Along with Shepard and Alliance Command being seemingly oblivious to obliteration of other homeworlds, the Council and other high ranking alien officials are completely oblivious to imminent destruction of intelligent organic life.  Instead, they decide to bicker about while Shepard has to wipe their ass and change their diapers with no options to negotiate.  I'd say the Quarian fleet is the absolute worst example of this as their decision to invade and retake Rannoch during a horrible galactic crisis makes absolutely zero sense.

Now some may say that none of that has to do with the ending, but I'd beg to differ.  The horrible pacing and the writers' decision to shove as much potential drama into the story is why I personally believe a cheap deus ex machina was introduced as a solution to the Reaper threat.  I think this also contributed to the nonsensical handling of the last hour or so of the game.

If Mass Effect 2 hadn't existed and the third game were split into two games I think the pacing would have been saved, the writers could have more time to work with their old dark energy thing/find a more believable way to stop the Reapers, and the explanation of the Reapers would have been much more satisfying.  Mass Effect 2 was largely a game that didn't need to exist.  No matter how you look at it, anything you did in that game has little to no effect on the Reaper threat.  Instead it could have been about preparation, curing the Genophage for Krogan support, wiping the asses of politicians for some assets, etc etc.  

 

So in short, my issues with the ending come from the general mismanagement of the plot and Bioware forcing themselves to start and end the war in one game.

[FOZ289]

I haven't posted about ME2 in probably 2-3 years, so I have a lot to say about that game.

Mass Effect 2 barely even has a story.  The Illusive Man is a pretentious idiot and you're forced to play along with him while Shepard commits mercenary genocide and occasionally fights some stupid bugs.  It also undermined the ending of the first game and made Shepard into a stupid magnetic hero, which admittedly is a running problem with Bioware protagonists, but ME2 takes it to the point that Shepard is HUMANITY'S LAST HOPE right from the start which is ridiculous.  Honestly I don't actually like most of ME2 other than the settings and the combat.  I feel like it homogenized the races of the galaxy too much, using entire races as clumsy analogues to human society rather than focusing on the dynamics of the galactic community and the Council.  Thane is probably the worst of this, one of only two characters shown of his entire race and his backstory would be almost no different whatsoever if he was turian, human, or asari.  It made the Council out to be stubborn idiots despite them having supported Shepard against Saren and justified humanity's whiny persecution complex.  The game even has saying "Cerberus isn't so bad, they're helping people" as the Paragon option most of the time, when Shepard, the first human Spectre, joining a known human supremacist terrorist organization (they're not "human survivalist," that's just a euphemism even Ashley could see through), should be profoundly troubling.  But no, Shepard can do no wrong, he/ she is a hero and everyone else is a big dumb-dumb who thinks the Reapers aren't real.

 

And as such we get ME3 ham-fistedly attempting to cram as many conflicts into one game as possible.  You spend more time on Omega in ME2 than Shepard does saving entire species in ME3.  It's full of contrived attempts at pathos, the worst by far being Duct Kid which fails on every single level, Mordin " I have to activate the bomb- I mean cure the genophage manually" Solus, Legion dying because apparently his wireless network can't handle uploading a code without nuking his own system?, expecting us to be sadder for Thessia than any other planet that isn't Earth for some reason.  And all that alongside a constant stream of oh boohoo war is so awful, we have to stop them

The reasoning for the Reapers being focused on humans was lost between games, and we're stuck with the explanation that "because Shepard killed Sovereign."  That makes no sense.  Shepard didn't kill Sovereign.  He killed a Husk that Sovereign was controlling.  Shepard broke Sovereign's guard and then the Citadel fleet stun-combod Sovereign to death.  And yeah, they wouldn't have been able to stop Sovereign without Shepard.  But the Reapers consider themselves infinitely above organic life.  They wouldn't think like that.  Unless Shepard personally flew into space and punched a hole through Sovereign like it was goddamn King Piccolo, I don't understand why the Reapers care about Shepard or humanity.  But because the Reapers DO care about humanity, it justifies Shepard once again being a self-righteous ******* who can do no wrong even when he's asking people to abandon their home planet to come save London from giant cuttlefish.  Even if your Shepard wasn't born on Earth and has no personal interest in Earth, but who cares about that anyway.

 

Really sounds like I don't like the series now, doesn't it

I really don't like the direction it went in story-wise after the first game, at least.

[Dantriges]

Yeah the whole Cerberus stuff every time they appear. You can only swallow it, iuf you shut down higher brain function and remember "When Cerberus appears, stupid happens."

 

Some people calculated the population numbers. 95 to 97% of all humans still live on Earth. Not caring about Earth is more or less the same as throwing humanity under the bus. If you lose the planet that´s it, humanity is a footnote in galactic history as most of the rather lowly populated colonies are already lost, too and probably processed a lot faster than Earth. 4-5 million people concentrated around a few population centers are gobbled up fast, even considering that the Reapers didn´t drop the massive amount of slaughterhouses on the colonies as on Earth.

[FOZ289]

I don't know about a footnote.  Obviously it would be bad.  But why does Shepard HAVE to care about Earth? One of the ideas in the first game was that humanity was part of the galactic community now.  They aren't the oldest, the strongest, or the smartest, and they have to live with it.  ME2 instead throws much of that away in favor of human exceptionalism, and then ME3 ramps it up even further with saving humanity being tantamount to stopping the Reapers, conveniently making it so Shepard has no moral quandary about sacrificing other people to save his/ her own species.

[themikefest]

My Shepard cares about Earth. She grew up on Earth. Went to McDonald's all the time to have a big mac. She will do what it takes to keep Earth and humanity safe.

[JasonC Shepard]

Yeah the whole Cerberus stuff every time they appear. You can only swallow it, iuf you shut down higher brain function and remember "When Cerberus appears, stupid happens."

 

Some people calculated the population numbers. 95 to 97% of all humans still live on Earth. Not caring about Earth is more or less the same as throwing humanity under the bus. If you lose the planet that´s it, humanity is a footnote in galactic history as most of the rather lowly populated colonies are already lost, too and probably processed a lot faster than Earth. 4-5 million people concentrated around a few population centers are gobbled up fast, even considering that the Reapers didn´t drop the massive amount of slaughterhouses on the colonies as on Earth.

Couldn't the exact same be said of Palaven, Thessia, Tuchanka, or Sur'Kesh?  The fact of the matter is Earth is not the only planet that's getting fucked up out there.  Yet the game decides to treat Earth like it's the center of the galactic conflict.  If it truly was the center of conflict during the Reaper invasion, why wasn't it completely wiped out during the time that Shepard dicks around the galaxy?

It's honestly a bit odd how these issues got past the writing team considering how huge they are.  If someone like me, you, or FOZ can pick up on these issues that stand out in the storytelling, why couldn't Bioware?  Hell, let's take that one step further.  If majority of the Bioware fanbase could find fault in the ending and the events leading up to the ending, why couldn't any of the writers at Bioware?

[sjsharp2011]

I never had a problem with the Catalyst being what it is, or being introduced that late. Initially, without the Leviathan DLC, you still get that hint from Vendetta during the Cerberus HQ mission that something else might be behind the Reapers.

With Leviathan DLC, it's even faster to reveal what the Catalyst is because you can play it pretty early.

 

I also don't know why it's a retcon? Can you explain further?

 

As for ME:A, we'll probably not get a lot of references, if at all. I'm also curious about it.

 

 

Yeah plus I think he indicates as such in the Thessia conversation as well just before Kai Leng attacks you

[sjsharp2011]

My Shepard cares about Earth. She grew up on Earth. Went to McDonald's all the time to have a big mac. She will do what it takes to keep Earth and humanity safe.

As does mine

[Dantriges]

Because the Reapers only manage to harvest 1.8 million people per day? Tuchanka no idea but if you compare colonies like Illium with the homeworld, the numbers of other species not living on their homeworld is considerably larger. No surprise because they are colonising for 2000 years +, humanity does it for some decades.

Sur´Kesh wasn´t hit until the end as far as we know.

 

It passed because of drama.   The customers live on Earth. Blowing up the tower of the venerable matriarch Dilinga doesn´t have the same impact as blowing up Big Ben. Rather dumb but well.

 

I don't know about a footnote.  Obviously it would be bad.  But why does Shepard HAVE to care about Earth? One of the ideas in the first game was that humanity was part of the galactic community now.  They aren't the oldest, the strongest, or the smartest, and they have to live with it.  ME2 instead throws much of that away in favor of human exceptionalism, and then ME3 ramps it up even further with saving humanity being tantamount to stopping the Reapers, conveniently making it so Shepard has no moral quandary about sacrificing other people to save his/ her own species.

 

I agree that the Reapers moving the Citadel to Earth was quite contrived, the Reapers first entered the galaxy in batarian territory after all. But why Shepard cares about Earth and humanity? Uh well, (s)he is officer in the navy tasked to protect humanity for their whole adult life. Ok minus your term in the space Ku Klux Klan, but that was the dumbest thing ever.

 

And I never had the feeling that Shepard was only talking about Earth. You talked a lot with Garrus or Victus about Palaven, Thessia was cry me a river and yeah ok Tuchanka. But never had the feeling that Tuchanka was really attacked and the krogans probably had the time of their life anyways.

 

Shepard talked more about Earth but you are on an Alliance ship, talking repeatedly to  the leader of the rest of the Alliance fleet and the leader of Earth´s resistance. The majority of your crew with the exception of your squadmates were human, too. Dunno, but somehow I found it hardly surprising that a lot of miltary dudes and gals, who are members of the human fleet were talking a lot about retaking Earth. It´s their job after all.

 

So the humanocentric stuff like "uh yeah the Citadel is now flying over Earth" is really annoying and contrived, I had no problem with Shepard talking a lot about retaking Earth. In the meantime Shepoard was blowing up Reapers on Tuchanka and Rannoch, getting krogan reinforcements for Palaven and uh trying to save Thessia by reading some texts. Considering the amount of time you spent blowing stuff up on other planets, it´s no wonder, that you spent a considerable amount of telling your human crew that you haven´t forgotten Earth.

[JasonC Shepard]

Because the Reapers only manage to harvest 1.8 million people per day? Tuchanka no idea but if you compare colonies like Illium with the homeworld, the numbers of other species not living on their homeworld is considerably larger. No surprise because they are colonising for 2000 years +, humanity does it for some decades.

Sur´Kesh wasn´t hit until the end as far as we know.

 

It passed because of drama.   The customers live on Earth. Blowing up the tower of the venerable matriarch Dilinga doesn´t have the same impact as blowing up Big Ben. Rather dumb but well.

 

 

I agree that the Reapers moving the Citadel to Earth was quite contrived, the Reapers first entered the galaxy in batarian territory after all. But why Shepard cares about Earth and humanity? Uh well, (s)he is officer in the navy tasked to protect humanity for their whole adult life. Ok minus your term in the space Ku Klux Klan, but that was the dumbest thing ever.

 

And I never had the feeling that Shepard was only talking about Earth. You talked a lot with Garrus or Victus about Palaven, Thessia was cry me a river and yeah ok Tuchanka. But never had the feeling that Tuchanka was really attacked and the krogans probably had the time of their life anyways.

 

Shepard talked more about Earth but you are on an Alliance ship, talking repeatedly to  the leader of the rest of the Alliance fleet and the leader of Earth´s resistance. The majority of your crew with the exception of your squadmates were human, too. Dunno, but somehow I found it hardly surprising that a lot of miltary dudes and gals, who are members of the human fleet were talking a lot about retaking Earth. It´s their job after all.

 

So the humanocentric stuff like "uh yeah the Citadel is now flying over Earth" is really annoying and contrived, I had no problem with Shepard talking a lot about retaking Earth. In the meantime Shepoard was blowing up Reapers on Tuchanka and Rannoch, getting krogan reinforcements for Palaven and uh trying to save Thessia by reading some texts. Considering the amount of time you spent blowing stuff up on other planets, it´s no wonder, that you spent a considerable amount of telling your human crew that you haven´t forgotten Earth.

The Reapers are sure to attack and destroy any form of resistance on planets they visit.  You can be sure that there's not going to be any fleets defending Earth because those would be ripped to shreds.  Ground forces are all thats left.  I don't know where you're getting the information that only 1.8 million people are harvested every day because for a planet with basically no defenses and a population of 11 billion or so that seems ridiculously slow.

Onto the topic of Earth, Without creating a connection between the setting and the player there's no reason to care about it.  Sure, we live on Earth.  However, Earth in the Mass Effect series was impossible to visit and explore however until the third game.  I use the words "visit" and "explore" very loosely there because you really do neither; it's a horribly linear and boring place.  I had more emotional connection to the Citadel being attacked in ME1 because I was given the opportunity to walk around, meet the people, hang out with squad mates.  Not only that, my Shepard was a Spacer.  The idea that someone who has barely spent time on Earth would be heavily invested in saving that one planet over all the others he must have visited makes little sense and hurts immersion a little.  The same goes for anyone who chose for Shepard to be a colonist.

And you don't necessarily have to be familiar with a setting in order to feel the emotional impact of its destruction.  I have never visited Citadel Tower in my life for obvious reasons, but it's hard not to feel something when you enter the tower and see how the place you were made a Spectre is now on fire and in ruins.

 

You're right though, it's not surprising that the Alliance brass discuss the idea of retaking Earth.  However, it makes no sense for other species to willingly weaken their own defenses to save an alien planet.  The fact that they all do so long before the Citadel is relocated to Earth is an issue for me.

[AlanC9]

I don't know where you're getting the information that only 1.8 million people are harvested every day because for a planet with basically no defenses and a population of 11 billion or so that seems ridiculously slow.

That figure is straight from the Codex. Remember, harvesting isn't really a military operation. The Reapers need to process organics in an efficient and orderly manner.

Codex entry: Harvesting.
 

Even with all the Reapers' power, harvesting every sapient species in an entire galaxy can take decades or even centuries. The most time-consuming part of the process is gathering DNA from the population. To accelerate the effort, the Reapers follow a consistent procedure.

Victims who cooperate, surrender, or are captured by husks are sorted into camps. It is believed the husks possess receptors that allow them to analyze a victim's DNA through sight, smell, or touch. Victims that meet their standards are herded from the camps into processor ships. Those the husks deem insufficient are either turned into husks themselves or indoctrinated to serve as slave labor. The Reapers use this last option to give their victims false hope -- many captives who would otherwise fight back become docile when they see members of their own kind obey and survive.

The processor ships reduce victims to a transportable liquid. Like in a slaughterhouse, the ships' design prevents victims from seeing or hearing what happens elsewhere so that they do not panic. The victims are ushered into locking pods, then rent apart and dissolved into paste that is flushed to storage vats.

The rate of killing is phenomenal. Intelligence estimates suggest there are more than 400 processor ships on Earth, killing approximately 1.86 million humans per day. In combination with battlefield deaths, disease, and famine, this pace will result in the complete depopulation of Earth within a decade. As the husks and indoctrinated slaves build more slaughtering facilities, the kill rate can only increase.

Not only that, my Shepard was a Spacer.  The idea that someone who has barely spent time on Earth would be heavily invested in saving that one planet over all the others he must have visited makes little sense and hurts immersion a little.

Even though well over 95% of the human race still lives on that planet?

I'd like to think that an Alaskan or a Hawaiian would be heavily invested in defeating an alien invasion of the continental US.

[FOZ289]

1.8 million is a lot, though the Reapers aren't as impossibly fast and efficient as you might imagine them to be.

 

Part of it is ridiculous how much detail of the war is left to the Codex, but some stuff would be way too disturbing/ potentially gimmicky shock value if it was actually shown in-game.  I wouldn't actually want to see it.

[AlanC9]

And as long as I'm fishing stuff up...
 

Well thanks for helping clearing that up, I guess I'm still trying to understand where did the ending go wrong in terms of the development process. If they did have those original ideas from the beginning and weren't rushed or anything and is all rumors, then it makes it the more frustrating that the ending was plagued by so many problems given the impeccable execution of all the other parts of the game, so I guess we just wished they could have maintained that level all through the end right?

It's actually quite possible that the devs were rushed, in the sense that they might have lost control of the process and had to just slap something together at the last minute. That outline I referred to upthread is very vague about some important stuff. Here are the relevant sections. Note that the order here is guesswork since the original document was somewhat scrambled. My own annotations are in bold.
 

A handful of survivors from hammer, including Anderson and the henchmen, have gotten bogged down just a few dozen meters from the conduit and have dug in, but are dying quickly.
Suddenly, the Normandy streaks overhead, evading fire fromthe Reaper and blowing a hole in the Reaper enemies' lines.
Anderson shouts for Shepard to make a run for it, and orders the rest of Hammer to cover him.
(3 versions here. Best guess is that they represent different EMS states)
Cutscene:
Shepard and Anderson approach the conduit's beam. Shepard gets in, but Anderson is grabbed by a husk. Shepard turns to help, but before he can do anything, the beam activates, whisking Shepard away to the Citadel. On the other side, Shepard tears the metal from his leg and casts it aside, and then injects himself with Medigel.
Cutscene:
Shepard comes to. Anderson is dragging him forward. A jagged, bloody piece of metal is sticking out of his thigh. The conduit anchor retracts, stranding the henchmen. Shepard tries to walk, but his leg buckles. Anderson hands Shepard his pistol, and lifts Shepard's arm around his neck, supporting his leg. The two begin to shuffle towards the conduit beam.
Designer Cutscene: Shepard limps to the conduit, and takes one final look around for other survivors. Seeing none, he enters the beam and is transported to the citadel.
CUTSCENE:
Shepard regains consciousness. He's bloody, and obviously badly injured. The Reaper is overhead, blasting away at retreating elements of Hammer. Shepard looks around: he's surrounded by burning vehicles and corpses, alone. He reaches for a syrette of medigel, but finds them broken or empty. Determined, he struggles to his feet, and starts limping towards the conduit.


CUTSCENE/CINE DESIGN:
Shepard leaps into the Conduit at the end of the Earth sequence.
Shepard slowly wakes up. He is badly injured and alone. Suddenly his radio starts to go off.
Shepard and Anderson reach the end of the tunnel in to a larger central chamber. They realize this is essentially a rendering facility. Human goo pours from their tunnel, and dozens (hundreds?) like it, into a vast holding tank under the grated floor.
As they enter the control room they can see the controls for the Citadel Arms, but before they can reach them both Shepard and Anderson begin to feel the effects similiar to those Shepard felt at MIRANDA'S MISSION. Before they can realize what's happening, Anderson and Shepard find themselves with their guns drawn and aimed at one another.
The reference to Miranda's mission above is to a new Reaper enemy type called a Pariah, which was cut from the Horizon mission. It had some sort of unspecified "mind blast" powers. However, at some point Bio is known to have considered a TIM boss fight at this point; there's concept art kicking around

The fight ends with Shepard near death… and the Crucible docking with the Citadel. Bloodied and wounded, Shepard stumbles for the controls… and collapses (END03 Begins).

CUTSCENE:
The platform Shepard was on begins to rise up into GUARDIAN's garden where he is faced with his final decision.

CONVERSATION:
Once Shepard reaches the top of the elevator he begins a conversation with GUARDIAN where all the mysteries of the universe are revealed.

At this point they hadn't decided what those mysteries are

ACTION:
Shepard must now make his final decision - to control the Reapers, to destroy the Reapers, or if they had a perfect game to become one with the Reapers.
CUTSCENE:
The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard leaps off the edge of the platform becoming one with the Reapers.
CUTSCENE:
The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard places his hands into the control mechanism and gains control over the Reapers. Earth is destroyed, and the Reapers leave.
CUTSCENE:
The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed. Earth is also Destroyed.
CUTSCENE:
The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard places his hands into the control mechanism and gains control over the Reapers. Earth is okay, and the Reapers leave.
CUTSCENE:
The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed. Earth is devastated.
CUTSCENE:
The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed. Earth is okay.
CUTSCENE:
The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed. Earth is okay. Shepard survives.

Note that the Catalyst is called the Guardian here, and there's nothing about its appearance, motivations, or goals. Also note that there's no mention of anything but Reapers being destroyed in Destroy. Many people have guessed that this was a late addition when Bio realized that the ending choice, as written, was no choice at all. And apparently Destroy was always going to be activated by shooting a tube. That's because... nah, I got nothing.

[Ieldra]

Well thanks for helping clearing that up, I guess I'm still trying to understand where did the ending go wrong in terms of the development process.

In terms of the development process, the problem was most likely that the ending was made by two people (Casey Hudson and Mac Walters) in a closet without feedback from the team. These two people got caught up in a specific vision of their story, and disregarded thematic and narrative inconsistencies and the fact that it had to be the player's story, too.  

[JasonC Shepard]

That figure is straight from the Codex. Remember, harvesting isn't really a military operation. The Reapers need to process organics in an efficient and orderly manner.

Codex entry: Harvesting.
 


Even though well over 95% of the human race still lives on that planet?

I'd like to think that an Alaskan or a Hawaiian would be heavily invested in defeating an alien invasion of the continental US.

That's interesting to me.  While 1.8 million people per day is a lot, I'd expect it to be more with the addition of indoctrinated humans, Reaper ground forces, and their ability to level entire buildings with their lasers.

 

And obviously Shepard cares for humanity, but at the same time humanity should not be the focus of the survival of organic life.  There's enough people on the Citadel alone to ensure the survival of the human race.  It's also somewhat confusing that there even needs to be an operation to take back Earth when the Alliance and other races are building a Deus Ex Machina.

Where are you getting the 95% statistic from? I don't remember seeing that in game.  

[wright1978]

My Shepard cares about Earth. She grew up on Earth. Went to McDonald's all the time to have a big mac. She will do what it takes to keep Earth and humanity safe.

 

Mine doesn't particularly. Didn't grow up there, never lived there. Doesn't think it's ok to sacrifice all other alien life in desperate hail mary at Earth.

Earth should have only been a definite forced focus post their citadel move plot stunt, rather than the constant forced let's ignore bigger picture in desperate rush to get back there. Before that dialogue choice should have been there, allow Shep the room to be the character the player has created.

[fraggle]

Couldn't the exact same be said of Palaven, Thessia, Tuchanka, or Sur'Kesh?  The fact of the matter is Earth is not the only planet that's getting fucked up out there.  Yet the game decides to treat Earth like it's the center of the galactic conflict.  If it truly was the center of conflict during the Reaper invasion, why wasn't it completely wiped out during the time that Shepard dicks around the galaxy?

 

I thought it's clear that the Reapers will be targeting Earth as soon as we find out that the Collector's collect humans and build that giant Reaper in ME2. Sure the Reapers target other planets as well, but they're not as important to them as Earth I think. The plan for a human Reaper still stands I'd say, it just never happens. Why the Reapers target Earth is because of the human DNA. I don't remember exactly where it was mentioned, but one time in ME2 during Mordin's LM he will say something about human DNA being much more diverse or something along these lines. And I think there was a conversation with... Tali in ME3 about this as well?

And actually, the Collector's usually make deals with individuals and trade stuff for some organic examples (usually alive people) from various races to study them etc. (that was in the books iirc). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd say that ties in enough with the reasons as why it has to be Earth.

 

Then it's Javik who also tells us the reaping process is very slow, could take centuries. The game seems to be spread over a few weeks, so I don't see an issue with Earth still holding up, despite being cut off from most things they relied on, like comms etc.

 

People who also have an issue with Shepard caring too much about Earth. Well... Shepard is never truly our character. They are still defined by BW and we can roleplay them to a certain extent and headcanon stuff that adds to this character, but it's not like Shepard ever was completely our character.

 

And I'm probably in the minority, but I enjoyed the last battle being on Earth. Seeing London all destroyed was cool, a city I knew from my time being there.

But then I also liked the ending, so...

[Dantriges]

That's interesting to me.  While 1.8 million people per day is a lot, I'd expect it to be more with the addition of indoctrinated humans, Reaper ground forces, and their ability to level entire buildings with their lasers.

 

There was probably a spike at the beginning when Earth was still fighting. You can probably shave a billion or two off alone from that.

Indoctrinated humans and ground forces are means to an end, get suitable people into the processing plants. The lasers are counterproductive, the Reapers have a very specific method of killing a species, herd them into the processing plants and harvest them. Yeah they can blow up some resistance fighters here and there but the Reapers don´t use every weapon at their disposal to wipe us out, because killing us as fast as possible isn´t the objective.

 

If we are honest, that Earth fell was probably the death knell for humanity´s time as a major species. Considering the sheer amount of destruction in infrastructure, initial loss of life, loss of life due to starvation and diseases, that´s it. My problem with the humanocentrism in the setting is less with Shep being focused on poor old Earth but that we were punching so far above our weight class, even after Eath fell.

 

 

And obviously Shepard cares for humanity, but at the same time humanity should not be the focus of the survival of organic life.  There's enough people on the Citadel alone to ensure the survival of the human race.  It's also somewhat confusing that there even needs to be an operation to take back Earth when the Alliance and other races are building a Deus Ex Machina.

Where are you getting the 95% statistic from? I don't remember seeing that in game.

 

That´s less than what the quarians have in population numbers. And well it´s not like we neglect the other species. there´s still fighting on Palaven, Victus and Garrus simply had to decide to go on the offensive or slowly die. And uh well, seems that the Alliance Military is a bit concerned about humanity instead of all organic life. Weird, isn´t it? I find the attitude a bit odd. Oh there are 9-11 billion people currently suffering and dieing on Earth, ah well who cares about that, we´ve got enough to repopulate on the Citadel..

 

Yeah it´s a bit confusing, seems that the Maker told Hackett there needs to be an epic fight at the end, same as TIM knowing that 12 people and a frigate would be enough to storm the Collector homeworld in ME 2.

 

The 95% number comes from people who counted the population number of every human colony world in the game, and well added someting on top of it or so.

[Tim van Beek]

The Crucible as a deus ex machina never bothered me because ME1 showed how strong just a single Reaper was.  I always assumed there was going to be a weapon or device specifically for fighting the Reapers, because there was absolutely no way the galaxy could beat them in brute force.  

Sorry for assuming the role of the pedant again: The crucible isn't a DEM, it is "applied phlebotinum", (see http://tvtropes.org/...liedPhlebotinum):

 

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"

— David Langford, "A Gadget Too Far", as a corollary to Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law

 

The catalyst-AI is a DEM. The core characteristics of a DEM are that at the end of a story a new character appears solely to solve the central conflict by means that havent' been established by the story, often because the author did not figure out any other way to achieve the intended ending within the setting and contraints of the story that he himself created. "New character" does not mean that it has never been mentioned, or is entirely unknown to the audience, but can also be an established character acting with new powers, or a completely new motivation that turns him/her effectively into a different character.

 

Of course, a DEM can and has also been used for better reasons, for example to achieve a comical, ironical effect, see "The Threepenny Opera" (https://en.wikipedia...hreepenny_Opera):

 

Then a sudden and intentionally comical reversal: Peachum announces that in this opera mercy will prevail over justice and that a messenger on horseback will arrive ("Walk to Gallows"); Brown arrives as that messenger and announces that Macheath has been pardoned by the queen and granted a title, a castle and a pension. The cast then sings the Finale, which ends with a plea that wrongdoing not be punished too harshly as life is harsh enough.

 

(That was actually intended as a parody of simpering happy ends by Brecht.)

 

The messenger that appears out of nowhere and without any motivation, saves the protagonist by declaring that he has been pardoned by the queen, is the DEM. The fact that Brown is an established character doesn't really change that he plays the role of a DEM in the ending.

[fraggle]

The catalyst-AI is a DEM. The core characteristics of a DEM are that at the end of a story a new character appears solely to solve the central conflict, often because the author did not figure out any other way to achieve the intended ending within the setting and contraints of the story that he himself created.

 

But it's not the Catalyst that solves anything, quite to the contrary. The Catalyst can't even do anything in the end, Shepard has to act.

[dorktainian]

But it's not the Catalyst that solves anything, quite to the contrary. The Catalyst can't even do anything in the end, Shepard has to act.

thus as i've said before, shepard is the catalyst, not starjar.  another part of the reaper lie.

[JasonC Shepard]

There was probably a spike at the beginning when Earth was still fighting. You can probably shave a billion or two off alone from that.

Indoctrinated humans and ground forces are means to an end, get suitable people into the processing plants. The lasers are counterproductive, the Reapers have a very specific method of killing a species, herd them into the processing plants and harvest them. Yeah they can blow up some resistance fighters here and there but the Reapers don´t use every weapon at their disposal to wipe us out, because killing us as fast as possible isn´t the objective.

 

If we are honest, that Earth fell was probably the death knell for humanity´s time as a major species. Considering the sheer amount of destruction in infrastructure, initial loss of life, loss of life due to starvation and diseases, that´s it. My problem with the humanocentrism in the setting is less with Shep being focused on poor old Earth but that we were punching so far above our weight class, even after Eath fell.

 

 

That´s less than what the quarians have in population numbers. And well it´s not like we neglect the other species. there´s still fighting on Palaven, Victus and Garrus simply had to decide to go on the offensive or slowly die. And uh well, seems that the Alliance Military is a bit concerned about humanity instead of all organic life. Weird, isn´t it? I find the attitude a bit odd. Oh there are 9-11 billion people currently suffering and dieing on Earth, ah well who cares about that, we´ve got enough to repopulate on the Citadel..

 

Yeah it´s a bit confusing, seems that the Maker told Hackett there needs to be an epic fight at the end, same as TIM knowing that 12 people and a frigate would be enough to storm the Collector homeworld in ME 2.

 

The 95% number comes from people who counted the population number of every human colony world in the game, and well added someting on top of it or so.

Fair enough, Reapers are focused on harvesting more than actual killing.  How many humans they need to make another Reaper isn't exactly clear.  But I'd assume that well under 1 billion as the Reaper in Mass Effect 2 was close to completion around I'd speculate <1.5 million people.  When you put that together along with the daily death count on Earth, It seems a little confusing to me why the Reapers haven't just started leveling Earth as I assume that 1.8 million daily death count includes more harvested humans than not.

I agree with you on the idea that humanity was punching FAR above their weight class though.

 

And my problem isn't that the Alliance cares for humanity.  My problems relates more to other races and how they're so willing to weaken their defenses in order to reclaim an alien planet.  Palaven is starting to get overwhelmed towards the end of the game and Thessia seems worse off than Palaven for some reason.  Earth has no fleet defending it and more Reaper forces attacking it which really makes me wonder why in the world anyone would want to take troops away from their planet to defend one where the Reapers have an overwhelming advantage.