The exact quote is "little more."
Thanks for the exact quote.
Just makes my headache even more though. The 'little' seems to mean being able to modify, with no physical contact, a section of the Citadel and ancient AI that no-one knew existed.
All those eggheads Shepard recruited and not one of them realised they had created a device capable of rearranging matter?
There was a thread that mentioned that quite a lot fo the rearrangement was packed into the tip of the Crucible or so. But yeah it seems that there could be quite a lot hidden in this "little more."
Now, we know that The Catalyst and, through it's extensions, the Reapers know of this. Sovereign was itself left behind as a vanguard to moniter the situation for 50.000 freaking years. The sign that synthetics and organics have finally joined forces in a combined fleet to protect all life in the galaxy ought to be a serious heads-up to The Catalyst, but the damn thing seems completely oblivious to that fact.
Well it would probably argue that the peace won´t last and in a few years or a hundred, a thousand or a million years, synthetics will wipe out organics or so. Which is is really a very unwieldy timeframe (anything can happen in a million years) and an assumption standing on shaky ground. The galaxy was already on the trip to transhumanism without the green magic ray anyways.
The Catalyst is indifferent to Shepard taking control. It offers it as a solution, but says nothing about the consequences other than Shepard dying. The only ending the Catalyst criticizes is the control one as it views it as a temporary solution.
You're right, it cannot take action in relation to implementing those solutions. Why is this? The plot demands it I guess and they had to make the ending involve some choice. But the Catalyst still remains overall control over the Reapers so it can call off the entire attack if it wanted to. It just won't.
Well, Control is still the better option for the Catalyst if the only other available option is Destroy, so I guess it can accept that.
I'm really not sure why it can't take action. But obviously something happened once the Crucible docked. It might even be that it cannot control the Reapers during this state and that's why they continue attacking. I know Refuse doesn't quite back that, as it seems the Crucible is switched off by the Catalyst, but what if it's taken in a way that the Reapers just continued attacking the Crucible so long that it is too damaged to create the energy anymore?
And I know I don't need to argue with you on the Synthesis ending, but I enjoy talking about the endings. Wouldn't have really joined in on this discussion otherwise. People can enjoy the endings all they want. I think that if the player has to make up reasons why a cycle is ready or how the Synthesis ending works, it isn't a well written ending and should have been scrapped/revised. People can enjoy speculating, but some actual reasoning behind Synthesis would make it a lot more of a solid ending.
I'm the same. I liked the ending and I like talking about it, get some more ideas and so on. Speculating about it is what I like too (I may be one of the very few, haha).
And while you're right that it is much too vague in terms on how it exactly works, I still like that people actually can make that up. It's like you take that game and make it your own. Of course this is not for everyone, as you also don't like this fact, but for me it's nice it's so open that the player can basically think up any reasoning or how it will work. Could be called lazy writing, but it could also be purposely ambiguous. One of the the famous quotes for the ending was "Speculations for everyone" after all 
But I still agree, Synthesis could use a tad more explaining. But since I took it as a more "spiritual" ending (the Catalyst talking about what Shepard is, their essence etc.) I can still accept it that way.
My issue with the Control ending isn't so much the fact that the Reapers are left in Shepard's hands. It's the fact that this AI is trying to offer new solutions to the synthetic threat and offers only one solution that involves a lot of space magic and imagination (Synthesis where organic life is preserved by somehow making everything organic because why not). If the AI was programmed to find a solution, it should not be offering non-solutions to the player. That goes against its basic purpose which is kind of character breaking if you consider the Starchild to even really be a character.
But isn't this exactly what would support the Catalyst being practically forced to offer these choices? It would explain why the Catalyst is more hostile when you go up with low EMS, when Synthesis is not available. It would explain why it begrudgingly does offer you these choices and even tells you it doesn't look forward to being replaced when asking about Control.
I said this before in various threads, but to me the Catalyst is only there to guide you, in a way, to explain these choices a bit. But it cannot act itself somehow.
The Crucible does discriminate though. It targets Reapers and Synthetics, but general technology is left almost unaffected. You could say that it only targets Reaper tech, but what exactly is classified as Reaper tech? Anything the Reapers built? Tech based on Reaper technology? Thanix cannons are based on Reaper tech if I remember, how will they be affected. EDI is also only based on Reaper tech. I think it's too much of a jump to say Reaper tech is only affected, rather I think the Catalyst and the writers literally meant only Synthetics and Reapers will be affected. But it is a decent interpretation that would be better if there was more information given to the player.The relays do much more than overload though, even in the extended cut. In the high EMS destroy ending, the fleet passes by a relay that is literally in pieces and inoperable.
I have no clue. It's just too vague and we don't see what is actually really affected. Could be that it has to do with the Reaper code. EDI has it, the geth have it, surely the Reapers themselves have it too then? I'm not too informed on this topic, but it could be the thing that's targeted.
But I think for the relays only the rings shatter, right? The rest of the relays is still more or less intact and seems to be repairable.
It's actually never stated that the Crucible was built as a weapon. The Catalyst says that it was just built by a previous cycle and became more effective with each cycle. It's kind of hard to go from weapon to power source anyways. There's no mention of the Citadel later incorporating the Crucible, that just doesn't make sense to me. Why would Reapers incorporate less advanced technology to work with their more advanced tech?
Nobody understood the purpose of the Crucible and to be honest, I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. It's a power source to the Citadel. That means whoever built it must have known the Citadel was more than just a space station. They built the Crucible to work around the Citadel. But if other cycles were unable to see the Citadel as more than a station, how could they have? How did they know how to design the Crucible to act as a power source to the Citadel? Did they know what they were powering and what it could do? There's too many questions about its origin that are unanswered.
The Catalyst knows the purpose of the Crucible, otherwise it wouldn't have explained its purpose and origin to Shepard.
And what the Catalyst did to test Synthesis is important. If the test the Catalyst did in the past have failed, why does it have faith in Synthesis now? We have to understand what the Catalyst did in the past to help rationalize why it's an option now.
What I thought of is that the Crucible was really meant to be a weapon, and I mean weapon in the sense of it's capable to deal with the Reapers, which it ultimately is/was. Seems the Crucible alone was not enough though, and we learn (from Vendetta I believe) that the Citadel was incorporated at some point to amplify the huge amount of energy the Crucible can create. To use their own technology against the Reapers by including the mass relays.
We get a few updates from Hackett throughout the game, through granted, they're not much and ultimately I think they only know that it will exploit the mass relays. I know this is a gripe many have with the Crucible, that we just never know how exactly it works, while I think that's okay. It's an act of desperation and they have no other choice but to build and deploy it. Otherwise they're dead anyway. I always ask myself if I would use something which I have no real clue about. But yeah, I would if it could solve a potential problem I guess. Especially when death lurks around the corner, haha.
Who knows what other civilizations knew. I'm not sure though they knew more about the Citadel (if you want to say the knew about the Catalyst/AI). Could be they only really incorporated it because of it being able to disperse this energy to the other relays. Maybe when the Reapers attacked and the older civilizations learning that the Citadel is also a mass relay, they thought about how it could be used with the other relays together. It could be something along those lines maybe.
From my discussions with other people here I know that you are not in the minority, many wanted to know more about the things you also say here, to me it was just never that important to have more information. The ending still works for me without this extra information. I also think the writers deliberately did not reveal this, because when Shepard asks who designed the Crucible the Catalyst says that there's not enough time to explain. I took it that there's not enough time because of the Reapers probably still attacking the Crucible, and that if Shepard wants to choose he/she has to do it pretty quick.
But how did the Crucible add those items, they would have had to have been there before the power source was added. Putting batteries into your remote control for example does not add extra buttons to it.
I think the Keepers are likely the ones who built the chamber or modified it at least. I don't think they are seen as a species any more, but rather just part of the Citadel.
Looking into the Catalyst/Crucible connection just makes my headache because the more I look into it the less it makes sense.
You can check this thread here. I think the ideas are pretty good in there. And I imagine that these options being built onto the tip of the Crucible enables the energy it creates to go through them, depending on what you choose. How, again, we don't know, but I think if we see it as some kind of channelling the energy through, say, the Destroy tubes it can be plausible I think.
space magic.....
The relays do much more than overload though, even in the extended cut. In the high EMS destroy ending, the fleet passes by a relay that is literally in pieces and inoperable.
That relay that is seen when the ships pass by it is the same regardless of ems. If ems is above 2600, the 2 rings are seen being blown away from the relay while the rest of the relay isn't damaged, but yet if the player has high ems, the relay the ships pass by has a lot of damage
I'm really not sure why it can't take action. But obviously something happened once the Crucible docked. It might even be that it cannot control the Reapers during this state and that's why they continue attacking. I know Refuse doesn't quite back that, as it seems the Crucible is switched off by the Catalyst, but what if it's taken in a way that the Reapers just continued attacking the Crucible so long that it is too damaged to create the energy anymore?
If the crucible takes damage, why isn't it destroyed? The reapers can one-shot a ship. I like to know what materials were used to build the crucible for it not to be destroyed.
But I still agree, Synthesis could use a tad more explaining. But since I took it as a more "spiritual" ending (the Catalyst talking about what Shepard is, their essence etc.) I can still accept it that way.
Too bad Shepard can't ask the thing why synthesis is the final evolution of all life
I said this before in various threads, but to me the Catalyst is only there to guide you, in a way, to explain these choices a bit. But it cannot act itself somehow.
I like to know how it was able to shutoff the crucible. Did it just shutoff the citadel causing the crucible to shutoff?
What I thought of is that the Crucible was really meant to be a weapon, and I mean weapon in the sense of it's capable to deal with the Reapers,
In my first playthrough I thought it would fire a pulse that weakens the reapers
We get a few updates from Hackett throughout the game, through granted, they're not much and ultimately I think they only know that it will exploit the mass relays.
After the coup, Hackett says his people believe the crucible has enough energy to destroy the reapers, they didn't know how it would disperse the energy. It was only after Vendetta mentions using the relays on Chronos
I know this is a gripe many have with the Crucible, that we just never know how exactly it works, while I think that's okay.
The problem is that Hackett is so fixated on the crucible that he never considers anything else. They had plenty of warning and only now decide to do something. Wait a minute. I keep forgetting that a third game in a trilogy is the best place to start playing.
The only ending the Catalyst criticizes is the control one as it views it as a temporary solution.
Do you mean destroy?
It's a power source to the Citadel. That means whoever built it must have known the Citadel was more than just a space station.
Here's a theory of who the designers of the crucible were
They built the Crucible to work around the Citadel. But if other cycles were unable to see the Citadel as more than a station, how could they have? How did they know how to design the Crucible to act as a power source to the Citadel? Did they know what they were powering and what it could do? There's too many questions about its origin that are unanswered.
Throughout the trilogy the player is told the citadel is called Citadel, yet the Protheans call it the catalyst. Vendetta said on Cronos that in your cycle sits known as the Citadel. Here's a post I made asking about the Citadel being called the catalyst
The Catalyst knows the purpose of the Crucible, otherwise it wouldn't have explained its purpose and origin to Shepard.
I don't recall the thing mentioning the origin of the crucible
And what the Catalyst did to test Synthesis is important. If the test the Catalyst did in the past have failed, why does it have faith in Synthesis now? We have to understand what the Catalyst did in the past to help rationalize why it's an option now.
I would guess since an organic can choose synthesis, it has faith. Shepard is not forced to choose synthesis
If the crucible takes damage, why isn't it destroyed? The reapers can one-shot a ship. I like to know what materials were used to build the crucible for it not to be destroyed.
Maybe the Reapers were too busy fighting fleets and couldn't fire decent shots, haha.
Too bad Shepard can't ask the thing why synthesis is the final evolution of all life
Mutual understanding 
I like to know how it was able to shutoff the crucible. Did it just shutoff the citadel causing the crucible to shutoff?
No idea. It's the problem with Refuse I think. If the Catalyst has the power to deactivate the Crucible, why didn't it? Especially with low EMS? Plus it states that it can't act... I'm not sure what to think about Refuse. So I thought the Crucible being too damaged at that point might make more sense, and the Reaper voice symbolising the Reapers will end this cycle as they always do.
The problem is that Hackett is so fixated on the crucible that he never considers anything else. They had plenty of warning and only now decide to do something. Wait a minute. I keep forgetting that a third game in a trilogy is the best place to start playing.
I know. I wished they would've looked for the plans in ME2 already, it could've been very good and more research could've been done on it, too. But I don't fret, we got what we got and we cannot change it anyway.
Throughout the trilogy the player is told the citadel is called Citadel, yet the Protheans call it the catalyst. Vendetta said on Cronos that in your cycle sits known as the Citadel. Here's a post I made asking about the Citadel being called the catalyst
I think that is because the/some Protheans actually found out at some point that the Catalyst is the Citadel? Because Javik refers to the Citadel as Citadel, and he also didn't know what the Catalyst is. They tried to hold back the information on the Catalyst until the Crucible is finished for the current cycle, so I think it makes sense. My theory on this is that the Citadel might've been always called Citadel, until one civilization decided to incorporate it into the Crucible plans, from there it might've been called Catalyst, but of course only once the plans have been found.
I know. I wished they would've looked for the plans in ME2 already, it could've been very good and more research could've been done on it, too. But I don't fret, we got what we got and we cannot change it anyway.
I would change it if I bought the rights to Bioware from EA. hahaha
Or if Bioware were to rewrite the whole trilogy. They can make that happen if they choose.
We get a few updates from Hackett throughout the game, through granted, they're not much and ultimately I think they only know that it will exploit the mass relays. I know this is a gripe many have with the Crucible, that we just never know how exactly it works, while I think that's okay. It's an act of desperation and they have no other choice but to build and deploy it. Otherwise they're dead anyway. I always ask myself if I would use something which I have no real clue about. But yeah, I would if it could solve a potential problem I guess. Especially when death lurks around the corner, haha.
The problem is, that everything around the Crucible is on very shaky grounds. The wild goose chase for the catalyst is halfway explainable with the sabotage of the project, but still plain weird. So we lost the project description? Ah yes, ok. And you didn´t include the data that the important component is always in Reaper hands unless someone unrelated to your project sabotages the vanguard signal. Ok. And the VI with the Catalyst data is on a different planet than the Crucible blueprints. And the Vi can only be accessed by a prothean on the planet where you set up camp to uplift the asari? Must have been a real chaos back then.
Good that we have brillant scientists. So this thing has huge docking clamps which dock the thing onto a kilometer wide circular ring structure with a diameter similar to the Citadel ring. What a coincidence. So uhhh, no clue what that could be, let´s hope our hero finds out what the Catalyst is.
That we don´t know if the Catalyst is just the sockpuppet of the crucible or is offering you destroy because it´s tired of living the story demands that players can blow up the reapers is just the tip of the iceberg.
You can check this thread here. I think the ideas are pretty good in there. And I imagine that these options being built onto the tip of the Crucible enables the energy it creates to go through them, depending on what you choose. How, again, we don't know, but I think if we see it as some kind of channelling the energy through, say, the Destroy tubes it can be plausible I think.
Even if those options were in the tip of the Crucible, it never makes physical contact with the Catalyst's chamber.
Which means either those options were already in place in the Catalyst's chamber or the Crucible can rearrange matter and reprogram ancient AIs.
I don't recall the thing mentioning the origin of the crucible
Well, not by the name of the race per se, but it does hint that it knows who originally got the idea. But that explaining it to Shepard would take too long, and that (s)he wouldn't know who they were anyway, so that kind of exposition would be pointless. Which, incidentally, is sort of correct. Earth is being overrun, so no history lesson for you, kids.
In my first playthrough I thought it would fire a pulse that weakens the reapers
The problem is that Hackett is so fixated on the crucible that he never considers anything else. They had plenty of warning and only now decide to do something. Wait a minute. I keep forgetting that a third game in a trilogy is the best place to start playing.
So, basically, Independence Day?
Would that be a problem if that were to happen?
Hey, it's not like Hackett had control of the defense budget.
No. But how hard would it of been to have the ME1 characters go back to Prothean sites to see if there's anything that can help to stop the reapers. Liara can studying them. Or even better send her to Mars to study the ruins there. They wasted 2 years doing nothing after the SR1 was destroyed
Would that be a problem if that were to happen?
No. But how hard would it of been to have the ME1 characters go back to Prothean sites to see if there's anything that can help to stop the reapers. Liara can studying them. Or even better send her to Mars to study the ruins there. They wasted 2 years doing nothing after the SR1 was destroyed
Ahhh, hardly. Wrex tried rallying krogan clans, Garrus killed off triggerhappy mercs and criminals on Omega (okay, that's kinda counterproductive, seeing that those groups are needed as War Assets in ME3), Ash/Kaidan did military... stuff, Tali poked around the galaxy for... stuff, Liara was searching the galaxy for information... stuff.
I take it back, they were wasting their damn time. Except Wrex. He was pretty much the only one who actively tried to bring some guns into the fight he anticipated right over the horizon.
Wow I have a lot to respond to. I'm just going to be lazy and do each post day by day.
Well, Control is still the better option for the Catalyst if the only other available option is Destroy, so I guess it can accept that.
I'm really not sure why it can't take action. But obviously something happened once the Crucible docked. It might even be that it cannot control the Reapers during this state and that's why they continue attacking. I know Refuse doesn't quite back that, as it seems the Crucible is switched off by the Catalyst, but what if it's taken in a way that the Reapers just continued attacking the Crucible so long that it is too damaged to create the energy anymore?
I'm the same. I liked the ending and I like talking about it, get some more ideas and so on. Speculating about it is what I like too (I may be one of the very few, haha).
And while you're right that it is much too vague in terms on how it exactly works, I still like that people actually can make that up. It's like you take that game and make it your own. Of course this is not for everyone, as you also don't like this fact, but for me it's nice it's so open that the player can basically think up any reasoning or how it will work. Could be called lazy writing, but it could also be purposely ambiguous. One of the the famous quotes for the ending was "Speculations for everyone" after all
But I still agree, Synthesis could use a tad more explaining. But since I took it as a more "spiritual" ending (the Catalyst talking about what Shepard is, their essence etc.) I can still accept it that way.
But isn't this exactly what would support the Catalyst being practically forced to offer these choices? It would explain why the Catalyst is more hostile when you go up with low EMS, when Synthesis is not available. It would explain why it begrudgingly does offer you these choices and even tells you it doesn't look forward to being replaced when asking about Control.
I said this before in various threads, but to me the Catalyst is only there to guide you, in a way, to explain these choices a bit. But it cannot act itself somehow.
I have no clue. It's just too vague and we don't see what is actually really affected. Could be that it has to do with the Reaper code. EDI has it, the geth have it, surely the Reapers themselves have it too then? I'm not too informed on this topic, but it could be the thing that's targeted.
But I think for the relays only the rings shatter, right? The rest of the relays is still more or less intact and seems to be repairable.
What I thought of is that the Crucible was really meant to be a weapon, and I mean weapon in the sense of it's capable to deal with the Reapers, which it ultimately is/was. Seems the Crucible alone was not enough though, and we learn (from Vendetta I believe) that the Citadel was incorporated at some point to amplify the huge amount of energy the Crucible can create. To use their own technology against the Reapers by including the mass relays.
We get a few updates from Hackett throughout the game, through granted, they're not much and ultimately I think they only know that it will exploit the mass relays. I know this is a gripe many have with the Crucible, that we just never know how exactly it works, while I think that's okay. It's an act of desperation and they have no other choice but to build and deploy it. Otherwise they're dead anyway. I always ask myself if I would use something which I have no real clue about. But yeah, I would if it could solve a potential problem I guess. Especially when death lurks around the corner, haha.
Who knows what other civilizations knew. I'm not sure though they knew more about the Citadel (if you want to say the knew about the Catalyst/AI). Could be they only really incorporated it because of it being able to disperse this energy to the other relays. Maybe when the Reapers attacked and the older civilizations learning that the Citadel is also a mass relay, they thought about how it could be used with the other relays together. It could be something along those lines maybe.
From my discussions with other people here I know that you are not in the minority, many wanted to know more about the things you also say here, to me it was just never that important to have more information. The ending still works for me without this extra information. I also think the writers deliberately did not reveal this, because when Shepard asks who designed the Crucible the Catalyst says that there's not enough time to explain. I took it that there's not enough time because of the Reapers probably still attacking the Crucible, and that if Shepard wants to choose he/she has to do it pretty quick.
You can check this thread here. I think the ideas are pretty good in there. And I imagine that these options being built onto the tip of the Crucible enables the energy it creates to go through them, depending on what you choose. How, again, we don't know, but I think if we see it as some kind of channelling the energy through, say, the Destroy tubes it can be plausible I think.
The Reapers actually don't fire much on the Crucible. You'd think that if they decided to fire on the Crucible, it would be game over for Shepard and pals. The Reapers also just float around the Crucible while Shepard is with the Catalyst and give no shits. So if Shepard chooses the Refuse ending, there is really no reason to believe that the Catalyst has no control over the Crucible/Citadel/Crucidel.
I like it when the player can also leave events in the story or how things work up to themselves, but there's a fine line between ambiguity and simply not making sense that the Synthesis ending does at least 20 backflips over. You can speculate that the Control ending sends a signal to each Reaper that makes it obey Shepard's consciousness and you can speculate that the Destroy ending is an EMP (although as I mentioned before there are even a few issues with this idea), but how can you speculate anything about the Synthesis ending and have it make sense?
It's purpose isn't to offer choices, but solutions is what I'm getting at. The Catalyst leads the Reapers and was programmed to find solutions to a problem. It has been acting over hundreds of thousands of years on what it thinks is the only solution. But suddenly when Shepard shows up, it decides to change everything and offer 2 non-solutions and one how-does-this-even-work solution(???). And once again, the Catalyst came up with these solutions and it claims it has control over the Reapers. There is no possible way it shouldn't be able to act.
The Crucible is designed as a power source. If the Crucible was to start off as a weapon and then later be adapted into a power source for the Citadel, that makes even less sense to me. So you're part of the civilization building the Crucible. It's supposed to be a weapon, but later on you adapt it to work with the Citadel. How did that civilization know the Citadel could be used that way and how did they even have access to the Citadel to adapt it into a power source. Remember that the Reapers invaded via the Citadel until the Protheans sabotaged it. The current cycle is the only cycle to not have had the Reapers invade via the Citadel. So how did that civilization get the Crucible to work with the Citadel when the Citadel was already under Reaper control? And if the true functions of the Citadel was hidden from so many other civilizations, how did this one manage to discover them?
Once again though, the Reapers really never lay a finger on the Crucible. Even in the low EMS cinematic, the Reapers focus fire on the ships rather than the Crucible. Considering that the actual size of the Crucible is rather small when it comes out of its shell, this is really odd as a single Reaper laser could probably slice right through it. it actually looks like the Citadel itself is under more of an attack which is odd because you'd think a Reaper would not want to shoot where their main AI is. Even if the Reapers were attacking the Crucible, all the Catalyst needs to do is redirect their fire as he has control over the Reapers. He can give Shepard all the time he wants, there really is no reason he's in such a hurry.
And I don't really think there's anything wrong with the inclusion of a chamber of choices, but its design is fishy as hell. The idea that the Catalyst and Reapers were huddled around and were like "You know what the Citadel tower needs? A thing to shoot to kill us all, something people can grab to control us, and a nice big damn laser beam so people can jump into it and, like, become ROBOT PEOPLE.". Or if you believe that the chamber of choices was designed by another race, simply take the imaginative quote I pulled out of my backside and apply it to them. I don't believe that chamber of choices blasted off from the Crucible though. Otherwise, why would the platforms that lead to the choices rise from the Citadel and how does one accurately launch a giant...thing into the top of the Citadel tower without screwing something up?
Ahh. Ultimately I'd go for the notion that Harbinger was the one in charge and leave it at that. Scrap the whole 6-year-old-glowstick-kid bit. Let's just toy with that for a second.
We have always been told that the conventional warfare won't cut it against the Reaper fleet. Okay, I'll buy that. There's like a billion years worth of Reapers against a galactic fleet of a couple-ish of thousands ships of all sizes and types. The most defining characteristic of that galactic fleet is that they're pretty much vastly outgunned compared to, say, just 100 Reapers. Even the capital ships can't hold their own against even a small number of them for long. Sovereign alone took a hell of an effort to bring down, and that was just one.
Now, in that final battle we focus all of our efforts against Harbinger. We already figured out that he's the main man. It, sorry. IT'S the main man. Say the Crucible really has some kind of power. Not the whole "blast-the-relays-and-tattoo-every-organic-in-the-galaxy-green" kind of power, but maybe something that could seriously hamper Reapers. Knock them out for a limited time, or whatever.
Far fetched? Perhaps. But we do know that the Prothean scientists from Ilos were able to go back to the Citadel and mess up the signal to trigger the Reaper invasion back in ME1. Who knows? Maybe some hidden datadevice found somewhere gave clues to something more. Something that could disrupt Reaper tech in general. A last minute discovery by Protheans that wasn't implemented due to time constraints. At least something that would give Shepard and the gang a shot at it. Hey, maybe board it and take out the core or some such, like the dead Reaper in ME2, or simply blast is into chunks like Sovereign.
Being the boss, what would happen to the remaining Reapers if Harbinger was destroyed? Well, they're fairly smart from what we've seen so far, and they have had millenia to think about things, some of them maybe even millions of years. How many Reapers really agree with the whole harvesting doctrine? The second Harbinger was taken out, how many of them would take the chance to settle som grudges against the Reapers who supported harvesting organics and kissed Harbingers butt to climb the corporate ladder?
Is seeing some Reapers as altruistic that hard? Well, the Geth had a fraction of Reaper code stuffed into their skulls, and they immediately joined up with the Citadel fleets and started helping the Quarians rebuild Rannoch, so I have no trouble thinking that some of them could be... good guys, or whatever you might call it. The Geths' self awareness lit up like the 4th of July when being upgraded by the Reaper code, so they're clearly sentient beings capable of making up their minds about stuff, but maybe just simply incapable of overriding the controlling directives that some of them perhaps over time have developed a desire to escape from.
And, like the Geth and EDI, how many Reapers really pity/respect/whatever organics to a degree where they would actively join them and defend them once freed from control? Sure, the Reapers can't be fought conventionally, but if, say, 25% or maybe even 50% of them suddenly turned their guns in the opposite direction, then what? How would the scales tip then? Combined with a high EMS, could this end up in that conventional victory we've been told is impossible?
And yes, I know that the enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend. We saw it in Starcraft and Broodwar. Kerrigan was a excessively cruel, cunning and manipulative ******, but that didn't stop her for a second from joining up with Raynor and the Protoss to get what she wanted. And even though the remaining Cerebrates plotted to create a new Overmind, she did all in her power to stop it from coming into being. No matter how much power she has as the puppet of the Overmind, she didn't relish the thought of being it's mindslave once again. And the second she had the chance, she stepped ud and elevated herself to rule the Zerg.
That's the kind of exposition I would have loved to see. It's simple, and the good guys possibly come out alive at the end of the day. And we still have a lot of possibilities for havoc in the future. Say a large group of Reapers survived on seemingly good terms with the galactic community, what would the real motivations of some of them be? I figure that there's potential for a different attitude towards organics for every Reaper left "alive", so to speak, even though they may have started out as allies to the Citadel races. Alliances of convenience can be broken the second one part deem the alliance to be of no further use to them.
Just my two cents. Forgive the inane ranting.
From my discussions with other people here I know that you are not in the minority, many wanted to know more about the things you also say here, to me it was just never that important to have more information. The ending still works for me without this extra information. I also think the writers deliberately did not reveal this, because when Shepard asks who designed the Crucible the Catalyst says that there's not enough time to explain. I took it that there's not enough time because of the Reapers probably still attacking the Crucible, and that if Shepard wants to choose he/she has to do it pretty quick.
I agree. They're not supposed to have a tediously long conversation while there's a galatic war raging. It's not very important anyway. Shepard is there to destroy the Reaper, to activate the Crucible, not to inquire about minutiae like some Star Trek nerd. The answers lie many cycles in the past anyway. If anything it's fascinating that there are things and events out there that you're not aware of.
I agree. They're not supposed to have a tediously long conversation while there's a galatic war raging. It's not very important anyway. Shepard is there to destroy the Reaper, to activate the Crucible, not to inquire about minutiae like some Star Trek nerd. The answers lie many cycles in the past anyway. If anything it's fascinating that there are things and events out there that you're not aware of.
I can't tell if this is bait or not.
The entire game series is extremely dialogue heavy and involves the player learning more about the galaxy, cultures, technology, etc through this dialogue. You inquire about details all the time no matter the situation really and no matter what's going on. The player constantly learns more and more about the galaxy and what it's like as you continue through the series. There's also a heavy focus on squadmates and character development.
Now, I've only watched little more than a few Star Trek episodes and maybe 3 of the movies, but what you do in ME sounds exactly like what goes on in Star Trek. Mass Effect is an obvious mash of various different pieces of Sci-fi and I think it would be fair to say that Star Trek is probably one of the main inspirations for ME. I mean, just observing how Mass Effect 1 is visually it's easy to see how 80's sci-fi that game looked with the heavy film grain, really cheesy lens flare effect, and just the general color palette of the game.
And how many people would've been saved if the beacon on Thessia was revealed earlier?
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that Shepard should be asking irrelevant questions. People are continually dying during that conversation -- we can even see ships blowing up.
The part that always kind of gets to me is that Shepard doesn't seem to be in a particular hurry. There's even one part where he's looking at a ship blowing up and the look on his face is... sleepy? bored?
I'm going to jump in on this conversation, but from a different perspective. I can't quote details like you folks can, but but I can share my impressions. I just finished ME3 the night before last on my second play through (my first time was 6 months ago.).
The first time I stumbled (Shep stumbled) into the FINAL decision and I tried again and again until I went with Destroy. I could list all my reasons (not trusting the Reapers, the original goal, not doing TIM's choice). But if I'm completely honest, it really was for selfish reasons. I wanted Shepard to live and be reunited with the love interest.
However, this time I was playing the game knowing what choices Shep would have, and it made a couple of character conversations stand out. One was some argument in the Normandy's dining room with two npc's arguing if synthetics were alive or not, another with EDI about her being alive, and one with Garrus.
"Garrus: Suppose that's what it's going to take, Shepard, the ruthless calculus of war. Ten billion people over here die so twenty billion over there live.
Garrus: Are we up for that? Are you?
Paragon response: If we reduce this war to arithmetic, we are no better than the reapers."
That dialog seemed to sting, since I knew I would choose Destroy again. And now I'm wondering if my Destroy decision is really the best for me. It's weird, but I'm feeling remorse for killing off the Geth and EDI, digital characters in a fictional story.
I'm starting to rethink my final decision. If my lazy interest in IT was just justification for wanting Destroy to be a paragon move, those conversations make me wonder if my Shep needs to Control the Reapers. Those conversations have (in the context of the game), real sentiments free from indoctrination. those conversations are there for the player to consider the question before the ending. Maybe "doing what I set out to do" isn't good enough. Maybe "destroy the reapers at any cost" isn't a good goal. If I can sacrifice myself to accomplish the same thing as destroying reapers, geth and EDI, maybe I should make the sacrifice.
The thing is, I trust my Shepard. My headcanon Control-Shepard will do the right thing. My Headcanon Shep will tame the reapers and keep the organics and synthetics happy. Maybe the best person to have the power is the person who doesn't crave it.
Wow I have a lot to respond to. I'm just going to be lazy and do each post day by day.
The Reapers actually don't fire much on the Crucible. You'd think that if they decided to fire on the Crucible, it would be game over for Shepard and pals. The Reapers also just float around the Crucible while Shepard is with the Catalyst and give no shits. So if Shepard chooses the Refuse ending, there is really no reason to believe that the Catalyst has no control over the Crucible/Citadel/Crucidel.
Well, but what exactly the Crucible can do in the end is tied to your EMS and how much damage the Crucible has taken. The Catalyst states that either the device is largely intact (high EMS) or damaged (low EMS), so I always took it as: more EMS, more fleets to distract Reapers from shooting, less EMS, less fleets are there to take the fight to the Reapers. I guess it depends on where they would hit, but well, something is happening in low EMS to make the Crucible more damaged. And I get your reasoning for a Reaper firing at the Crucible, but then we don't know exactly how the energy is actually created, if it's happening in a tiny core/going through tubes well hidden/shielded or not. If that were the case there'd be a chance I think.
I know about Refuse, and it's what makes me constantly wonder, but then actually you could have a game over in the original ending in which it was stated that the Crucible was destroyed by the Reapers. That's what ultimately made me think about it as a possibility.
I like it when the player can also leave events in the story or how things work up to themselves, but there's a fine line between ambiguity and simply not making sense that the Synthesis ending does at least 20 backflips over. You can speculate that the Control ending sends a signal to each Reaper that makes it obey Shepard's consciousness and you can speculate that the Destroy ending is an EMP (although as I mentioned before there are even a few issues with this idea), but how can you speculate anything about the Synthesis ending and have it make sense?
I don't know, as I'm not one of the people that likes to choose Synthesis, haha. I chose it the very first time (it was late into the night, and peace and the synthetics getting to live sounded so nice, so I was gladly ready to sacrifice myself), but it was totally strange. I reloaded immediately to pick Destroy.
But like I said, maybe it is something that can't really be explained, it's a question of what Shepard is or represents etc etc. Don't know.
It's purpose isn't to offer choices, but solutions is what I'm getting at. The Catalyst leads the Reapers and was programmed to find solutions to a problem. It has been acting over hundreds of thousands of years on what it thinks is the only solution. But suddenly when Shepard shows up, it decides to change everything and offer 2 non-solutions and one how-does-this-even-work solution(???). And once again, the Catalyst came up with these solutions and it claims it has control over the Reapers. There is no possible way it shouldn't be able to act.
Yet it tells us that it can't. I'm not sure what to say here anymore to be honest 
I guess we can just leave it at that. To me, since it states it cannot do act and that the Crucible has changed it and created new possibilities when Shepard asks why it's helping him/her, it's enough for me to see that it just can't really do anything. Why else would it say that?
The Crucible is designed as a power source. If the Crucible was to start off as a weapon and then later be adapted into a power source for the Citadel, that makes even less sense to me. So you're part of the civilization building the Crucible. It's supposed to be a weapon, but later on you adapt it to work with the Citadel. How did that civilization know the Citadel could be used that way and how did they even have access to the Citadel to adapt it into a power source. Remember that the Reapers invaded via the Citadel until the Protheans sabotaged it. The current cycle is the only cycle to not have had the Reapers invade via the Citadel. So how did that civilization get the Crucible to work with the Citadel when the Citadel was already under Reaper control? And if the true functions of the Citadel was hidden from so many other civilizations, how did this one manage to discover them?
Once again though, the Reapers really never lay a finger on the Crucible. Even in the low EMS cinematic, the Reapers focus fire on the ships rather than the Crucible. Considering that the actual size of the Crucible is rather small when it comes out of its shell, this is really odd as a single Reaper laser could probably slice right through it. it actually looks like the Citadel itself is under more of an attack which is odd because you'd think a Reaper would not want to shoot where their main AI is. Even if the Reapers were attacking the Crucible, all the Catalyst needs to do is redirect their fire as he has control over the Reapers. He can give Shepard all the time he wants, there really is no reason he's in such a hurry.
Well maybe it is simply not the right word choice then, but it is capable to deal with the Reapers, and was referred to as a weapon in early ME3 as well.
But why does it make less sense? The Crucible was build to disperse energy to get rid of the Reapers (I assume this was the original intent), but maybe civilizations realized it was not enough to target them completely or something along those lines. Maybe they figured if they used the Citadel in its open star-shaped form, it could disperse the energy further. Of course we don't know what exactly they did, how they studied it, or how they had this idea, but why not? We were told that they used the Reapers' own technology on them, incorporated the Citadel to make use of it, being the central relay hub. In these instances they don't need any knowledge of the AI. They just use Reaper inventions to get back at them.
And maybe they did something similar like the Protheans. Top scientists working secretly in some hidden bunker after the Reaper attack to develop a countermeasure until they also were wiped out by the Reapers. Before that happened they hid the plans, so the next cycle would find them. I can see something like this, I guess.
Honestly, I don't really care how it all started, it's details I don't need for the ending of the game, but if you want you can make it up somehow I think. I still stand by my opinion that the writers deliberately chose to not include these details because of the "there's no time" element. I know that the conversation with Anderson was cut short as well. It was supposed to be longer, but they (I think it was Casey's decision, but no guarantees) wanted it to be over much quicker.
Also, about how they knew the Citadel would work? They wouldn't I think. They didn't deploy the device, otherwise there would've already been changes to the Reapers. So they only worked on it in theory, each cycle adding new stuff to make it more efficient. In theory 
Makes this whole damn thing even more miraculous, but that's how it is I guess.
And I don't really think there's anything wrong with the inclusion of a chamber of choices, but its design is fishy as hell. The idea that the Catalyst and Reapers were huddled around and were like "You know what the Citadel tower needs? A thing to shoot to kill us all, something people can grab to control us, and a nice big damn laser beam so people can jump into it and, like, become ROBOT PEOPLE.". Or if you believe that the chamber of choices was designed by another race, simply take the imaginative quote I pulled out of my backside and apply it to them. I don't believe that chamber of choices blasted off from the Crucible though. Otherwise, why would the platforms that lead to the choices rise from the Citadel and how does one accurately launch a giant...thing into the top of the Citadel tower without screwing something up?
Yeah, it makes not much sense to have the tubes and the handles for Destroy and Control built upon the Citadel. It makes no sense at all, considering that is not what the Catalyst wants. So I really like the idea it's coming from the Crucible. There's some sort of tires around if you look at the design of the decision chambers, which could indicate that they were not attached to the Citadel, but came from the Crucible.
Btw, I also don't think that the Synthesis beam idea ever came from the Catalyst, but that it is rather a byproduct from the Crucible's energy. The Catalyst doesn't seem to know that Synthesis is possible with the Crucible, since it also wanted the plans destroyed earlier.
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That's what I'm often saying. Each player will be prepared for the big end question, what to choose. What is the best, or rather most logical choice for each Shepard?
Personally I try to have a certain mindset for Shepards that are or aren't open to some things. If I play a Shepard that doesn't care about synthetics, even chose to destroy the geth on Rannoch, why would I even consider anything but Destroy? If I favour Synthetics and want them to have a chance I picked Destroy in the past too (this was a Shepard that wanted to give Synthetics a chance, but couldn't broker peace on Rannoch and chose the quarians), but a different Shepard could pick Synthesis or even Control. While I as a player don't like anything but Destroy, maybe I'll pick something else at some point for my Shepards.
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