Been wondering about this for a while now. Does the pierce mods or high velocity barrels actually increase damage done to armored targets?
I understand the ability to shoot though light cover and still deal damage but does it add any bonus against armored targets. Or am I just better off with another slot attachment like increased thermal clip size unless I specifically want to hit targets though cover.
For me, having AP on a gun that can use AP is like one of the 10 ME3MP commandments. It might be first on the list. Especially on Gold or higher.
Ok been using phastrom with recoil reduction and AP. As well as sniper with AP round. Just didn't know if it was worth the trade off.
IIRC there was some thread by peddroelmz about mechanics and usefullness of AP mods/ammo and dmg up barrel mods. Something about that if your rifle etc has over 100 dmg per bullet of something, i don't seem to recall the number, you are better off with barrel mods, but if it's lower, then you'll get more effect on your damage output from armor pierce. Also you can use both to get the maximum result on most guns.
I couldn't find the thread though, I'll keep looking - but I found an interesting one by Cyonan. There it is written that cover piercing shots get dmg reduction from the best of your mods - like if you have mod that shaves off 30% dmg when you pierce cover, and some other mod that shaves 40% - so if you pierce it, you'll have 30% shaved off, because that was the best you could get. But, if you have innate cover piercing, like Javelin or Typhoon, then no damage gets shaved off. Thanks to the innate cover piercing.
EDIT: Found the thread, actually that wasn't peddro's, got fooled by a lot of numbers. Here's it.
Phaeston 47.6dpb [10rps] - Silver = 17.6dpb Gold = 5dpbAP - Silver = 37.1 Gold = 30.1
EB 59.5dpb - Silver = 29.5 Gold = 9.5dpb
With both - S 49 G 42Verdict - AP mod wins overall, but EB is not a terrible choice to take on silver runs.
Along with stacking AP you can take the weight bug into calculations.
(Click the pic)
Does the pierce mods or high velocity barrels actually increase damage done to armored targets?
They don't increase the damage so much as they offset the penalty imposed by armour that reduces damage.
I use high velocity barrels w Drill rounds..might as well kill them thru several walls.
Thanks to multihitting, and damage reduction, AP ammo would be ammo of choice to use against bosses for a setup like this, yeah?
Side question: If I use a piercing mod, with AP ammo, will there be any damage reduction for piercing cover? Or does AP ammo's presence subvert the cover-pierce damage reduction from the piercing mods?
Side question: If I use a piercing mod, with AP ammo, will there be any damage reduction for piercing cover? Or does AP ammo's presence subvert the cover-pierce damage reduction from the piercing mods?
I don't know the exact details, but can offer the general gist of it.
If the weapon has native piercing, like the Crusader or the Widow, then stacking additional piercing increases the penetration distance and armour mitigation, but doesn't stack the penalties for cover penetration.
If, however, the weapon does not have native piercing, then stacking piercing effects will have a negative impact on damage done through cover. I do not believe there is any impact on damage done normally.
The recommendation has always been not to stack piercing on weapons that do not have native piercing ability, but I don't know how significant the difference is.
I'm just going to quote myself from another thread from August on this topic, which has been discussed many times, including in the resource library stickied at the top of this sub-forum.
Armor piercing mods, high-velocity barrel mods, armor-piercing ammo, and drill ammo all possess two separate properties.
Property 1: Penetration. They allow you to shoot through cover, walls, or other enemies and hit enemies on the other side. With the vast majority of guns this comes with a cost; your damage will be reduced by a set % when striking your target (in case you're hitting two enemies with one shot, the first enemy will take full damage and the second one will take reduced damage). There are six guns which are able to penetrate without any mods or ammo, mods/ammo will extend their penetration distance, and they never suffer from penetration damage reduction: the Javelin, Widow, Black Widow, Crusader, Executioner, and Typhoon.
Property 2: Ignoring armor. Armored enemies take reduced damage from every pellet/slug; -10 on Bronze, -30 on Silver, and -50 on Gold and Platinum. The mods and ammo reduce this damage reduction; the assault rifle high-velocity barrel, for example, ignores 90% of an amored target's defenses, so if your gun normally does 100 damage then without the mod an armored enemy on Gold will only take 100-50 = 50 damage per shot but with the mod the same enemy will take 100 - (50*0.1) = 95 damage per shot. As SMR pointed out this has a much larger impact on guns that fire a lot of low-damage rounds (shotguns/SMGs) and a lower impact on high-damage low rate-of-fire guns (snipers, pistols). Also note that this property will never, ever cause your weapon do do more damage to an armored target than to an unarmored one, no matter how much you stack it.
In addition to the above properties, the AP and Drill rounds also provide a damage bonus vs. all targets.
These three properties operate completely independently of one another.
Would stacking AP mod and High velocity barrel on a Mattock IX be a good combo for anti armor on gold difficulties?
I'm currently leveling an N7 Paladin Sentinel. Between Snap Freeze and Incierate I can handle most non armored mobs pretty easily. How ever the armored guys some times seem to cause problems. And not just the bullet sponges like Atlas.
Would stacking AP mod and High velocity barrel on a Mattock IX be a good combo for anti armor on gold difficulties?
I'm currently leveling an N7 Paladin Sentinel. Between Snap Freeze and Incierate I can handle most non armored mobs pretty easily. How ever the armored guys some times seem to cause problems. And not just the bullet sponges like Atlas.
I don't think I would go that route. Use one of these three combos:
- HVB + Extended Mag + whatever ammo you want (probably Incendiary if you're having a problem with Armor)
- Extended Barrel + Extended Mag + AP Ammo
- Extended Barrel + AP Mod + whatever ammo you want (just be sure to hit big armored targets with Snap Freeze before you shoot them)
If you want to do the most weapon damage, the Extended Barrel combined with AP Ammo is going to be pretty hard to beat. IIRC, AP Ammo is enough to double hit an Atlas with no other Piercing mods. If you want to make Tech Combos from an Ammo Type (Fire Explosions, etc) then use the Tech Ammo but you will need to put some sort of Piercing on the weapon itself. Again, favor an Extended Barrel if possible, with a Piercing Mod in the second slot, but if you are using a gun that requires an Extended Magazine, then you may want the Heavy Barrel. (This ofc pertains to Assault Rifles, SMGs, and Pistols, as Shotguns and Sniper Rifles have barrels that include both Damage and Piercing).
If I am doing a Biotic Kit like say Justicar with a Hurricane, I have Warp Ammo for double damage on primed targets, so I will just use a Damage Barrel and Heat Sink on the Hurricane. No Piercing, because stacking Piercing and Weakening has diminished effect, so no double hits on Atlas, but that's ok because I get double damage on it anyway and can shoot many rounds before reload.
Piercing Attribute 4: Can shoot through Hex Shields and Teammates. This could be relevant in some games.
Penetration is all that matters. Without it, it doesn't feel right.
Penetration is all that matters. Without it, it doesn't feel right.
Would stacking AP mod and High velocity barrel on a Mattock IX be a good combo for anti armor on gold difficulties?
I'm currently leveling an N7 Paladin Sentinel. Between Snap Freeze and Incierate I can handle most non armored mobs pretty easily. How ever the armored guys some times seem to cause problems. And not just the bullet sponges like Atlas.
A Mattock IX does roughly 126 damage per shot; vs. armour, that's 126-50=76 damage per shot.
Mattock IX + HVB = 126 - (50*0.1) = 121 damage per shot.
Mattock IX + HVB + AP mod = 126 - (50*0) = 126 damage per shot.
Mattock IX + extended barrel + AP mod = (126*1.25) - (50*0.35) = 140 damage per shot.
I'm honestly not sure exactly how the reductions of armour damage reduction combine, but I do know that if they total 100% or more you will ignore armour entirely. However, from the above it's clear that if you're already using the HVB, the AP mod will only get you an extra 5 damage... there are much better uses for mod slot than that; and the final calculation shows that having extra damage from the extended barrel is better still.
Penetration is all that matters. Without it, it doesn't feel right.
This is really the only reason to stack AP mods.
HVB gives 1.35 meters of penetration, HVB + AP mod gives 2.45 meters of penetration.
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