27 réponses à ce sujet

[Aeratus]

The quest "In Hushed Whispers" shows time travel in for the first time in Thedas canon (much to my distraught, unfortunately). Interestingly, after the quest, Solas expresses skepticism and "You are certain you experienced time travel? Could it have been an illusion, a trick of the Fade?"

 

This statement could merely be a basis to "leave things open" for future retcon. However, after replaying the quest and observing the dialogue more closely, I think it is more plausible that there really wasn't any time travel at all, for the reasons below, and that it was "an illusion, a trick of the Fade" as Solas put it. What do you think?

 

Arguments for time travel being an illusion:

 

- In terms of in-game mechanics, we know that time dilation exists, but time displacement is a huge step from dilation. Examples of time dilation include Dorian's focus skill, the still ruins (extreme dilation to the point where things freeze), and the special circles spawned near Redcliffe. However, time dilation is nothing special, since it exists in real life physics (resulting from a strong gravitational field or high speeds). Time displacement, however, is a much more theoretically and logically complicated matter.   

 

- In terms of storyline, what is most bizarre is that all the companions you meet in the future refer to Corypheus as the "Elder One," and that the identity and characteristics of the "Elder One" are entirely vague. This seems almost implausible when the "Elder One" is consistently known as Corypheus, and would be easily identifiable by Solas, Varric, and Leliana/Cassandra (DA2, remember). If your companions in the future know that Orlais was overrun, they would know the identity of the Elder One as well.   

 

- The explanation to the above is that the inquisitor was introduced to the name "Elder One" prior to getting seemingly sent forward in time. Therefore, if the time travel sequence was simply a dream-like illusion based on what the Inquisitor/Dorian actually knew at the time, he would not have the details as to the identity of the Elder One.

 

- Redcliffe castle looks nothing like what it was in Origin. The interior and dungeons were dreamt up by the Inquisitor/Dorian.

 

- Solas was skeptical, and he is possibly the most knowledgeable character in the game on the arcane. Even Dorian expressed surprised in being pushed forward a year ahead, indicating that this type of time is beyond even what he could have expected.

 

- Solas states that the fade is a reflection of the real world. If the time travel event was simply an illusion derived from the fade, then the fade can at most offer an illusion based on a prediction of the physical world.  

 

-  At the end of the quest, several seconds after the Inquisitor arrives back at the present, the throne room is stormed by Fereldan soldiers. Alexius isn't badass enough to beat them all, which includes Fereldan soldiers (the royal guard), the inquisition solders (who were already there), Alistair (potentially), Fiona (if you're grand enchanter, you're fairly powerful), Felix (who is friendly with Dorian and working against his father), Leliana (who would've had to be there if she were to be captured 1 year in the future), and two companions, including canonically powerful characters like Solas and Vivienne. Thus, the capturing of your companions is implausible, since Alexius couldn't have fought his way out in this situation. (Credit for this plot hole goes to http://www.gamefaqs....tion/70770043).

 

- Fiona at Val Royeaux was an impersonator, and this meeting was not necessarily caused by a time displacement.

 

Arguments for time travel being real:

 

- When you're approaching Redcliffe, Solas says that the veil has been altered in a way that he's never seen before. Maybe Solas doesn't know everything.

 

- An in-game note (http://dragonage.wik...lexius'_Journal) states that the time travel was due to a special circumstance involving the breach. It states that "The Breach is the wellspring that makes this magic possible, and travel outside of its timeline is impossible," which could be an in-game explanation. 

 

- Items you get in the future are kept in the present. (However, this holds true for fade-traveling sequences such as the one in DAO).

 

- The portal-like thing in which you get sent forward in time looks nothing like a veil breach that you see.

 

- It correctly predicted Celene's assassination. (However, given how people get assassinated all the time in Orlais, that wouldn't have been too far-fetched of a prediction).  

[Gervaise]

Another oddity is the fact that you end up in the dungeon, whereas if you had only travelled in time (like Dorian maintains), then you should be in the throne room with Alexius.    The whole absurdity and lore breaking aspect of the Hushed Whispers time plot is what makes me prefer Champions of the Just.   At least there is no doubt that you are definitely in the Fade (mentally) during the attempted mind possession.   

 

However, whilst Solas does query whether what you experienced was real, a mage Inquisitor can assure him that they know the difference and a non-mage can state something to the effect that if Alexius was playing mind games with you, why did he predict his failure as a way of trying to defeat you?     The other point concerning the number of enemies Alexius would have to overcome in order to capture them is a valid one but I dare say the writers would explain it away by Alexius bumping time again.    It is interesting that if you do Champions of the Just, when Dorian is trying to find out what happened to Felix, he says that there is no trace of him or Alexius and it is as though they never existed.    In Hushed Whispers he claims that is what Alexius was attempting to do with the Inquisitor, so it may be that in the alternate path he attempted to defend himself from the disappointed Elder One by similar means and that it backfired.

 

Essentially the writers have given themselves a let out through the explanation that time travel was only possible because of the breach and once closed, that is an end of it.     Unless of course Solas has something similar planned.  Wouldn't put it past him, except that it is likely to go badly wrong because that is the nature of his plans. 

[robertmarilyn]

Solas has been so wrong about so much, in the past, that if he doubts ii was time travel, then it was really time travel. 

[Regan_Cousland]

I think it really was time travel, but that was an interesting post, OP. Nice job.

[Absafraginlootly]

The quest "In Hushed Whispers" shows time travel in for the first time in Thedas canon (much to my distraught, unfortunately). Interestingly, after the quest, Solas expresses skepticism and "You are certain you experienced time travel? Could it have been an illusion, a trick of the Fade?"

 

*snip*

 

- Solas was skeptical, and he is possibly the most knowledgeable character in the game on the arcane. Even Dorian expressed surprised in being pushed forward a year ahead, indicating that this type of time is beyond even what he could have expected.

 

*snip*

 

- When you're approaching Redcliffe, Solas says that the veil has been altered in a way that he's never seen before. Maybe Solas doesn't know everything.

 

*snip*

 

Solas also sais about the anchor/breach in the beginning "the magic involved here is unlike any I have seen", which we know isn't true. So Solas isn't necessarily a reliable source on this since he might have a reason to lie here too.

 

I do think that the events of redcliffe being a fade dream is very possible, on the other hand I can't help but wonder if they were there to establish time travel for a bigger plot down the road.

 

For example, the way Solas intends to restore the world of his time might be by traveling back in time and changing things, effectively destroying our world as it would never have existed. But that's just one possible theory.

[sonoko]

The quest itself was so absurd (thank you,  Aeratus, for listing all the major plot holes and inconsistencies) that when in game Solas said that it might have been a Fade trick I saw it as the only reasonable explanation.

 

As far as I remember, it has been stated in game that the Alexius' spell worked only because the Breach made the Veil thinner. It has never worked before and it wasn't possible to reproduce after. So it is reasonable to assume that in fact the spell never worked - both Alexius and Dorian were fooled because they wanted to believe in time-travel. The thin Veil made it possible to experience such an elaborate illusion. 

Oh, and how suspiciously convenient that all our companions from the future had to sacrifice themselves to let us return to the past... 

[Mlady]

Dorian saw the castle in 9:41 so it's not made up in anyone's head. I do think we were meant to get the idea of what a life without the Veil would be like though, and why Solas will change it after he tears down the Veil. Funny thing is, we entered a future that was unlike what we knew and had to erase it to return to the life we are used to, and Solas wants to do the same thing. It was like we were stepping into his shoes (and Corypheus' too) and seeing how they see our world now.

 

I think we did go to the future, but much of it was linked to the Fade so much was distorted too.

[Aeratus]

The quest itself was so absurd (thank you,  Aeratus, for listing all the major plot holes and inconsistencies) that when in game Solas said that it might have been a Fade trick I saw it as the only reasonable explanation.

 

As far as I remember, it has been stated in game that the Alexius' spell worked only because the Breach made the Veil thinner. It has never worked before and it wasn't possible to reproduce after. So it is reasonable to assume that in fact the spell never worked - both Alexius and Dorian were fooled because they wanted to believe in time-travel. The thin Veil made it possible to experience such an elaborate illusion. 

Oh, and how suspiciously convenient that all our companions from the future had to sacrifice themselves to let us return to the past... 

Yeah that quest is absurd. However, all this about plot hole raises another point -- should poor writing leading to plot holes be a factor in interpreting lore? lol, I feel that the the fade trick explanation almost presumes that the writers intentionally left in those plot holes. 

[robertthebard]

The quest "In Hushed Whispers" shows time travel in for the first time in Thedas canon (much to my distraught, unfortunately). Interestingly, after the quest, Solas expresses skepticism and "You are certain you experienced time travel? Could it have been an illusion, a trick of the Fade?"
 
This statement could merely be a basis to "leave things open" for future retcon. However, after replaying the quest and observing the dialogue more closely, I think it is more plausible that there really wasn't any time travel at all, for the reasons below, and that it was "an illusion, a trick of the Fade" as Solas put it. What do you think?
 
Arguments for time travel being an illusion:
 
- In terms of in-game mechanics, we know that time dilation exists, but time displacement is a huge step from dilation. Examples of time dilation include Dorian's focus skill, the still ruins (extreme dilation to the point where things freeze), and the special circles spawned near Redcliffe. However, time dilation is nothing special, since it exists in real life physics (resulting from a strong gravitational field or high speeds). Time displacement, however, is a much more theoretically and logically complicated matter.

It is also impossible to conjure a wall of fire or ice at a specified location with a flick of the wrist, scientifically, and yet...
 

- In terms of storyline, what is most bizarre is that all the companions you meet in the future refer to Corypheus as the "Elder One," and that the identity and characteristics of the "Elder One" are entirely vague. This seems almost implausible when the "Elder One" is consistently known as Corypheus, and would be easily identifiable by Solas, Varric, and Leliana/Cassandra (DA2, remember). If your companions in the future know that Orlais was overrun, they would know the identity of the Elder One as well.

Refresh my memory: When did Leliana or Cass see Cory in DA II? It's entirely possible that Hawke hadn't even been through the events of Legacy when they meet Leliana in the Chantry, and post game? Varric spills the beans, but how would they make that association? It's also entirely possible that all of the followers of Cory's new religion refer to him as the Elder One, he even refers to himself as such in Haven. I don't get what's so odd about them dying to buy you time to get back either. They weren't teleported through time with you, they lived the events of that year.
 

- The explanation to the above is that the inquisitor was introduced to the name "Elder One" prior to getting seemingly sent forward in time. Therefore, if the time travel sequence was simply a dream-like illusion based on what the Inquisitor/Dorian actually knew at the time, he would not have the details as to the identity of the Elder One.

Except that the events take place before Cory attacks Haven. You have to recruit either the mages or the Templars and close the Breach to trigger that attack. If the Inquisitor is removed from the timeline, there is no reason for Cory to show himself at all.
 

- Redcliffe castle looks nothing like what it was in Origin. The interior and dungeons were dreamt up by the Inquisitor/Dorian.

Redcliffe looks nothing like it did in Origins when you just go there. Does this mean it's all an illusion?
 

- Solas was skeptical, and he is possibly the most knowledgeable character in the game on the arcane. Even Dorian expressed surprised in being pushed forward a year ahead, indicating that this type of time is beyond even what he could have expected.

Solas: The sky is Blue. Me: Skeptical.
 

- Solas states that the fade is a reflection of the real world. If the time travel event was simply an illusion derived from the fade, then the fade can at most offer an illusion based on a prediction of the physical world.

We've been hearing all about how the Fade is a reflection of the real world since we started hearing about the Fade in Origins. Again, Redcliffe village looks nothing like it did in Origins either.
 

-  At the end of the quest, several seconds after the Inquisitor arrives back at the present, the throne room is stormed by Fereldan soldiers. Alexius isn't badass enough to beat them all, which includes Fereldan soldiers (the royal guard), the inquisition solders (who were already there), Alistair (potentially), Fiona (if you're grand enchanter, you're fairly powerful), Felix (who is friendly with Dorian and working against his father), Leliana (who would've had to be there if she were to be captured 1 year in the future), and two companions, including canonically powerful characters like Solas and Vivienne. Thus, the capturing of your companions is implausible, since Alexius couldn't have fought his way out in this situation. (Credit for this plot hole goes to http://www.gamefaqs....tion/70770043).
 
- Fiona at Val Royeaux was an impersonator, and this meeting was not necessarily caused by a time displacement.
 
Arguments for time travel being real:
 
- When you're approaching Redcliffe, Solas says that the veil has been altered in a way that he's never seen before. Maybe Solas doesn't know everything.
 
- An in-game note (http://dragonage.wik...lexius'_Journal) states that the time travel was due to a special circumstance involving the breach. It states that "The Breach is the wellspring that makes this magic possible, and travel outside of its timeline is impossible," which could be an in-game explanation. 
 
- Items you get in the future are kept in the present. (However, this holds true for fade-traveling sequences such as the one in DAO).
 
- The portal-like thing in which you get sent forward in time looks nothing like a veil breach that you see.
 
- It correctly predicted Celene's assassination. (However, given how people get assassinated all the time in Orlais, that wouldn't have been too far-fetched of a prediction).

So an ingame explanation for it actually working is given, but it didn't work? Do we know what magic was really like before the Veil? Is it possible that the Elves could move as easily through time as they did space? We simply don't know.

[Dai Grepher]

I think it was time travel, but just to argue for it being a Fade trick, I have some theories.

 

The reason Dorian and the Herald arrive back in the main room after only a moment is because they experienced a situation similar to the Herald and the Envy Demon where time outside that "world" stood still.

 

It's possible the "future" that Dorian and the Herald experienced was a pocket dimension "world" similar to what the ancient spirits of Elvhenan could create. So this future was what Alexius would have created. The reason why the future was so bleak is because Felix was still sick, and he was still sick because Alexius was relying on the Elder One to cure him. Without the Herald, Alexius had no way of recovering the anchor for the Elder One, and there was no way to go back to before the Breach because this wasn't true time travel to begin with. So the logical result is a bleak future where Alexius fails and the Elder One condemns him.

 

All of your companions still have all their gear.

 

Anyway, that's all I have for that. I still think it was time travel though, and it was just poorly written.

 

I can see Alexius getting out of the castle as Ferelden's monarch(s) arrive(s). The situation would have been confusing for the Inquisition members, and Alexius would have wanted to escape immediately. So he would have, and he simply returned at a later date to take the castle by force. There is a Chargers chore table operation that shows Venatori still in a hidden part of the castle even after Alexius clears out in the Champions of the Just path. So that was how he retook the castle.

 

As for how Redcliffe Castle looks. It looks different on the outside too, but to address the OP's point, no the Herald didn't know what it looked like, but Dorian did. He mentions that he was there before (or maybe it was just one part of it while sneaking in). He did see what it looked like. Also, the parts we see may have just been one part of the castle, and the area we saw in Origins was a different part. It was a big castle.

 

I think it was time travel because the Breach was larger, which means Corypheus opened it again, just as he does before the final battle. Also, Celene's assassination and the demon army are both referenced. Alexius did not know of these plans. No one who was there knew of those plans. Also, the dragon can be heard flying overhead after the battle with Alexius. The companions remark that this is how the Elder One beat them before. And lo and behold, the dragon is how Corypheus attacks Haven.

[Ariella]

So an ingame explanation for it actually working is given, but it didn't work? Do we know what magic was really like before the Veil? Is it possible that the Elves could move as easily through time as they did space? We simply don't know.

Considering what Morrigan says about the Crossroads being created from the fabric of time and space, I think that's good conjecture.

[Illegitimus]

The quest "In Hushed Whispers" shows time travel in for the first time in Thedas canon (much to my distraught, unfortunately). Interestingly, after the quest, Solas expresses skepticism and "You are certain you experienced time travel? Could it have been an illusion, a trick of the Fade?"

 

This statement could merely be a basis to "leave things open" for future retcon. However, after replaying the quest and observing the dialogue more closely, I think it is more plausible that there really wasn't any time travel at all, for the reasons below, and that it was "an illusion, a trick of the Fade" as Solas put it. What do you think?

 

Arguments for time travel being an illusion:

 

- In terms of in-game mechanics, we know that time dilation exists, but time displacement is a huge step from dilation. Examples of time dilation include Dorian's focus skill, the still ruins (extreme dilation to the point where things freeze), and the special circles spawned near Redcliffe. However, time dilation is nothing special, since it exists in real life physics (resulting from a strong gravitational field or high speeds). Time displacement, however, is a much more theoretically and logically complicated matter.   

 

- In terms of storyline, what is most bizarre is that all the companions you meet in the future refer to Corypheus as the "Elder One," and that the identity and characteristics of the "Elder One" are entirely vague. This seems almost implausible when the "Elder One" is consistently known as Corypheus, and would be easily identifiable by Solas, Varric, and Leliana/Cassandra (DA2, remember). If your companions in the future know that Orlais was overrun, they would know the identity of the Elder One as well.   

 

- The explanation to the above is that the inquisitor was introduced to the name "Elder One" prior to getting seemingly sent forward in time. Therefore, if the time travel sequence was simply a dream-like illusion based on what the Inquisitor/Dorian actually knew at the time, he would not have the details as to the identity of the Elder One.

 

- Redcliffe castle looks nothing like what it was in Origin. The interior and dungeons were dreamt up by the Inquisitor/Dorian.

 

- Solas was skeptical, and he is possibly the most knowledgeable character in the game on the arcane. Even Dorian expressed surprised in being pushed forward a year ahead, indicating that this type of time is beyond even what he could have expected.

 

- Solas states that the fade is a reflection of the real world. If the time travel event was simply an illusion derived from the fade, then the fade can at most offer an illusion based on a prediction of the physical world.  

 

-  At the end of the quest, several seconds after the Inquisitor arrives back at the present, the throne room is stormed by Fereldan soldiers. Alexius isn't badass enough to beat them all, which includes Fereldan soldiers (the royal guard), the inquisition solders (who were already there), Alistair (potentially), Fiona (if you're grand enchanter, you're fairly powerful), Felix (who is friendly with Dorian and working against his father), Leliana (who would've had to be there if she were to be captured 1 year in the future), and two companions, including canonically powerful characters like Solas and Vivienne. Thus, the capturing of your companions is implausible, since Alexius couldn't have fought his way out in this situation. (Credit for this plot hole goes to http://www.gamefaqs....tion/70770043).

 

- Fiona at Val Royeaux was an impersonator, and this meeting was not necessarily caused by a time displacement.

 

Arguments for time travel being real:

 

- When you're approaching Redcliffe, Solas says that the veil has been altered in a way that he's never seen before. Maybe Solas doesn't know everything.

 

- An in-game note (http://dragonage.wik...lexius'_Journal) states that the time travel was due to a special circumstance involving the breach. It states that "The Breach is the wellspring that makes this magic possible, and travel outside of its timeline is impossible," which could be an in-game explanation. 

 

- Items you get in the future are kept in the present. (However, this holds true for fade-traveling sequences such as the one in DAO).

 

- The portal-like thing in which you get sent forward in time looks nothing like a veil breach that you see.

 

- It correctly predicted Celene's assassination. (However, given how people get assassinated all the time in Orlais, that wouldn't have been too far-fetched of a prediction).  

 

 

You can't bring any item back from the Fade in DAO.  You can use up expendables, but expendables can't be taken literally anyway.  Your character doesn't really have that much stuff in the narrative.  The real thing supporting the idea that this was real time travel is that Alexius does seem to have altered the timeline so Fiona never went to Val Royeaux.  But the interesting thing about that is it only seems to have been true in Redcliffe.  The Inquisitor and the inquisitor's people still remember her having been there.  So taken at face value, it looks the time portal effect has created a "bubble" in which you can change local history, but with no effect on anything outside of the bubble.  

 

Alternatively of course Alexius may simply have entrapped and defeated Fiona and then used blood magic to edit her memory and personality so that she remembers having stayed in Redcliffe and surrendered to him.  

[vbibbi]

Yeah you point out a lot of flaws in that story-line. I think it is meant to be actual time travel, but to ease the pain I'm going to pretend it was a Fade trick.

 

A question this raises for me is, so is time travel possible because of the Breach or because the Veil is thinner and the Fade closer to magically manipulate? Because in the latter case, it would suggest that ancient elves could alter time, which then brings up further logic paradoxes. Why couldn't they jot to the future and prevent the Enuvaris wars?

 

And I sincerely hope Solas' plan is not to travel back in time, that would make a large genre shift for me and doesn't fit the tone of what I see the DA world as being about.

[X Equestris]

Yeah you point out a lot of flaws in that story-line. I think it is meant to be actual time travel, but to ease the pain I'm going to pretend it was a Fade trick.
 
A question this raises for me is, so is time travel possible because of the Breach or because the Veil is thinner and the Fade closer to magically manipulate? Because in the latter case, it would suggest that ancient elves could alter time, which then brings up further logic paradoxes. Why couldn't they jot to the future and prevent the Enuvaris wars?
 
And I sincerely hope Solas' plan is not to travel back in time, that would make a large genre shift for me and doesn't fit the tone of what I see the DA world as being about.

Dorian says that Alexius's time magic didn't work before, so I'm guessing it's because of the breach.

[Ariella]

Yeah you point out a lot of flaws in that story-line. I think it is meant to be actual time travel, but to ease the pain I'm going to pretend it was a Fade trick.
 
A question this raises for me is, so is time travel possible because of the Breach or because the Veil is thinner and the Fade closer to magically manipulate? Because in the latter case, it would suggest that ancient elves could alter time, which then brings up further logic paradoxes. Why couldn't they jot to the future and prevent the Enuvaris wars?
 
And I sincerely hope Solas' plan is not to travel back in time, that would make a large genre shift for me and doesn't fit the tone of what I see the DA world as being about.

I can't speak to why the Breach exactly, but there is a theory out there about time travel that should time travel be invented, you can only go back to the point where it was introduced and no further.

I have no clue why. This is more the spouse's field than mine, but he's mentioned it on occasion so I though I'd say something.

It is possible that the Enuvaris were well aware of the dangers of time travel and the unpredictability of changing the past. The Back to the Future series did this very well. Also the classic that introduced the concept of the 'butterfly effect' The Sound of Thunder by Ray Bradbury demonstrates how even the smallest thing (the story's case stepping on a butterfly while back in the era of dinosaurs) could do mind boggling damage.

And those are your useless facts for today.

[vbibbi]

I don't know why I have no issues in accepting magic but dislike time travel in the setting. I think because time travel always brings the risk of paradoxes and I think it is very easy to write poorly.

 

I will hope that time travel stays in IHW and does not travel...to future games!

[Ariella]

I don't know why I have no issues in accepting magic but dislike time travel in the setting. I think because time travel always brings the risk of paradoxes and I think it is very easy to write poorly.
 
I will hope that time travel stays in IHW and does not travel...to future games!

Because magic can be put in a system. This is how you light a fire vs. doing this makes ice. Time travel is unstable at the best of times. And unless you're writing where the paradoxes are the story you're entering a major mine field.

I doubt we'll see it again, as this isn't Star Trek (I love Trek, but God, they did and overdid time travel). I think it's a one trick pony to give some idea as to how wonky things have gotten. Not just the tears, but the laws of nature are being warped.

[Illegitimus]

Yeah you point out a lot of flaws in that story-line. I think it is meant to be actual time travel, but to ease the pain I'm going to pretend it was a Fade trick.

 

A question this raises for me is, so is time travel possible because of the Breach or because the Veil is thinner and the Fade closer to magically manipulate? Because in the latter case, it would suggest that ancient elves could alter time, which then brings up further logic paradoxes. Why couldn't they jot to the future and prevent the Enuvaris wars?

 

And I sincerely hope Solas' plan is not to travel back in time, that would make a large genre shift for me and doesn't fit the tone of what I see the DA world as being about.

 

No I didn't point out any flaws in that story-line.  Since time travel (particularly any kind of history alteration) is a total fantasy, it can operate according to whatever arbitrary rules the writer chooses to set for it.  It does seem fairly obvious that since time travel only operates (unreliably) by manipulating a rift, if there was no veil there was no time travel by that means.  

 

And how does time travel not fit the tone of what you think the DA world is about?  (Not that he's going to.  That's highly unlikely.)

[D_Schattenjager]

Refresh my memory: When did Leliana or Cass see Cory in DA II? It's entirely possible that Hawke hadn't even been through the events of Legacy when they meet Leliana in the Chantry, and post game? Varric spills the beans, but how would they make that association? It's also entirely possible that all of the followers of Cory's new religion refer to him as the Elder One, he even refers to himself as such in Haven. I don't get what's so odd about them dying to buy you time to get back either. They weren't teleported through time with you, they lived the events of that year.

It is highly improbable that no one even learned Cory's name in an entire year. Cory refers to himself as 'Elder One' & the 'Will that is Cory'

And this is Cory ... not Solas .... he is a typical Muwhahaha villain ... there is no way he would work from shadows without announcing his presence at the hour of his victory. 

 

No one from the current DA world understands Fade based magic properly. Alexius' magic may have sent Quizzy & Dorian to a pocket plane of Alexius' imagination. Since he was Venatori for many days, he could have known hints towards Celine assassination. Floriane remains Venatori no matter who we pick.

Also matches the plot that no time travel actually happens even when we pick Templars. 

[vbibbi]

No I didn't point out any flaws in that story-line.  Since time travel (particularly any kind of history alteration) is a total fantasy, it can operate according to whatever arbitrary rules the writer chooses to set for it.  It does seem fairly obvious that since time travel only operates (unreliably) by manipulating a rift, if there was no veil there was no time travel by that means.  

 

And how does time travel not fit the tone of what you think the DA world is about?  (Not that he's going to.  That's highly unlikely.)

Sorry was respond to OP, didn't quote it.

 

For how it doesn't fit, if time travel is involved in a story, I think it needs to be the main focus of the story. It's too complicated to be done well if it's not the central focus. And I don't think it was done that well in DAI. It seems like a writing crutch to hand wave logic "time travel did it!"

 

What would have been more interesting to me is if it were a Fade dream, but it was Alexius' dream, so it's actually a dystopia or even an utopia, but we gradually reveal the cracks in the facade. Similar to the Envy demon's sequence, but as if Corypheus achieved godhood and granted power to Tevinter, rather than leaving the world a blasted demon infested wasteland. That could have provided some much needed characterization and motivation to Alexius and Cory. I didn't need to see a bad future to know the Inquisition needed to stop the Elder One. That was obvious from the beginning.

[D_Schattenjager]

Sorry was respond to OP, didn't quote it.

 

For how it doesn't fit, if time travel is involved in a story, I think it needs to be the main focus of the story. It's too complicated to be done well if it's not the central focus. And I don't think it was done that well in DAI. It seems like a writing crutch to hand wave logic "time travel did it!"

 

What would have been more interesting to me is if it were a Fade dream, but it was Alexius' dream, so it's actually a dystopia or even an utopia, but we gradually reveal the cracks in the facade. Similar to the Envy demon's sequence, but as if Corypheus achieved godhood and granted power to Tevinter, rather than leaving the world a blasted demon infested wasteland. That could have provided some much needed characterization and motivation to Alexius and Cory. I didn't need to see a bad future to know the Inquisition needed to stop the Elder One. That was obvious from the beginning.

Actually it being Alexius' dream makes more sense than Time Travel. Alexius is supposed to be a good man twisted by circumstances and being forced to follow the Venatori,

What we think as Time Travel can easily be Alexius imagining the worst consequences of his actions

[Ariella]

Sorry was respond to OP, didn't quote it.
 
For how it doesn't fit, if time travel is involved in a story, I think it needs to be the main focus of the story. It's too complicated to be done well if it's not the central focus. And I don't think it was done that well in DAI. It seems like a writing crutch to hand wave logic "time travel did it!"
 
What would have been more interesting to me is if it were a Fade dream, but it was Alexius' dream, so it's actually a dystopia or even an utopia, but we gradually reveal the cracks in the facade. Similar to the Envy demon's sequence, but as if Corypheus achieved godhood and granted power to Tevinter, rather than leaving the world a blasted demon infested wasteland. That could have provided some much needed characterization and motivation to Alexius and Cory. I didn't need to see a bad future to know the Inquisition needed to stop the Elder One. That was obvious from the beginning.

Some of it is, I think they wanted not only the demon blasted wasteland but give more of an idea of how damn insidious red lyrium really is. Obviously you get the full effect in CotJ without any need to divert. We knew it could do weird crap, but we didn't know the full extent. Seeing that it is survivable and can actually be USED the way normal lyrium is, with horrific results drives it home. But you don't get that in IHW unless you do something drastic.

"If red lyrium is an infection, why is it growing out of the walls?"

"Do you really want to know?"

Thus nasty future. And of course these things always have to have a dark future if you're doing time travel. I swear, it's a law of nature or something.

[vbibbi]

Thus nasty future. And of course these things always have to have a dark future if you're doing time travel. I swear, it's a law of nature or something.

My guess is that if the future were good, the characters wouldn't have any urgency in returning to their time or finding a way to prevent the "dark future" from occurring.

[Absafraginlootly]

You can't bring any item back from the Fade in DAO.  You can use up expendables, but expendables can't be taken literally anyway.  Your character doesn't really have that much stuff in the narrative.  The real thing supporting the idea that this was real time travel is that Alexius does seem to have altered the timeline so Fiona never went to Val Royeaux.  But the interesting thing about that is it only seems to have been true in Redcliffe.  The Inquisitor and the inquisitor's people still remember her having been there.  So taken at face value, it looks the time portal effect has created a "bubble" in which you can change local history, but with no effect on anything outside of the bubble.  

 

Alternatively of course Alexius may simply have entrapped and defeated Fiona and then used blood magic to edit her memory and personality so that she remembers having stayed in Redcliffe and surrendered to him.  

 

The bolded is what I've always assumed happened.

 

My guess is that if the future were good, the characters wouldn't have any urgency in returning to their time or finding a way to prevent the "dark future" from occurring.

 

Indeed, and if the future was super good the character may decide they shouldn't go back, lest they accidentally stop that future from coming to pass. 

[robertthebard]

It is highly improbable that no one even learned Cory's name in an entire year. Cory refers to himself as 'Elder One' & the 'Will that is Cory'
And this is Cory ... not Solas .... he is a typical Muwhahaha villain ... there is no way he would work from shadows without announcing his presence at the hour of his victory. 
 
No one from the current DA world understands Fade based magic properly. Alexius' magic may have sent Quizzy & Dorian to a pocket plane of Alexius' imagination. Since he was Venatori for many days, he could have known hints towards Celine assassination. Floriane remains Venatori no matter who we pick.
Also matches the plot that no time travel actually happens even when we pick Templars.

The events in which he says these lines occur after we seal the Breach. If Alexius succeeds at removing us from the timeline before we get that done, hence the Dark Future, he's go no reason to show himself, because nobody is really challenging his power. All of his plans succeed, Celene dead, an army of demons with mind controlled GWs to lead them, why bother to show himself? We see his dragon at Adamant, but not him. That's a pretty crucial part of his plan for him to just not show up, and yet he doesn't. He shows up at Haven to get the anchor. None of his subordinates are capable of that, he has to be there. That's when we get to hear his speech, but from then on, he's persona non gratis until the Arbor Wilds and approaching the end game. He works from the background for the entirety of the game, other than these instances and finally at the Temple. How is it impossible for him to work from the background?