100 réponses à ce sujet

[Andreas Amell]

Don't worry we got ice zombies working on that front. 

Fire or Ice? I choose ending that world in fire. Ice would be taking the long route.

[Ariella]

It does , some things are made canon even if you had a choice in previous games , Alistair mentions in dai that he met his sister in the fade, what happened only if you took him to the circle in dao what means Alistair was with HoF during that quest and you can't influence it.Also same for Anders and Justice that were accepted by WC and you can't do anything about it even if you had different option in Daa.

I thought it was that Alistair has said he met his father in the Fade should he be your Warden contact, which would make at least part events of the comic series canonical.

But otherwise this only makes sense, since getting every single party configuration into the keep and then making it responsive in game would be an insane task.

[Aren]

I was ready to made a similar comment of Dai grepher; but that is not even the only issue .
The DAO quests to gain the allies can be resolved in any order as far as i'm concerened;
I can equally say that i did the circle quest before to visit Denerim, so if Alistair Never met her sister how can he possibly see her in the fade?
Since we know that demons in order to create their illusions need to know
what they are copying, and yet the demon can do that copy perfectly Goldanna even if her image was not even in Alistair's mind yet , or it is possible to never help him to find the true Goldanna at all.
So i can equally say that he entered the fade because he was drunk and dreamed on his own.

[In Exile]

But what if Alistair became a drunk and doesn't show up in Inquisition?

 

He's supposed to canonically sober up, I think?

[TheKomandorShepard]

But what if Alistair became a drunk and doesn't show up in Inquisition?

 

Doesn't matter , making alistair drunk or king was decision made near the end of the game, thus would affect only what happened after decision was made.

 

 

I thought it was that Alistair has said he met his father in the Fade should he be your Warden contact, which would make at least part events of the comic series canonical.

But otherwise this only makes sense, since getting every single party configuration into the keep and then making it responsive in game would be an insane task.

He does mention both his father and demon pretending to be his sister.

 

It doesn't make sense , to be honest it was another example of bioware bad writing decision, there was no need to bring it up in first place when they couldn't handle this. 

 

 

I was ready to made a similar comment of Dai grepher; but that is not even the only issue .
The DAO quests to gain the allies can be resolved in any order as far as i'm concerened;
I can equally say that i did the circle quest before to visit Denerim, so if Alistair Never met her sister how can he possibly see her in the fade?
Since we know that demons in order to create their illusions need to know
what they are copying, and yet the demon can do that copy perfectly Goldanna even if her image was not even in Alistair's mind yet , or it is possible to never help him to find the true Goldanna at all.
So i can equally say that he entered the fade because he was drunk and dreamed on his own.

 

Not rly , at best you can argue that devs were lazy or failed to notice and didn't change in-game model in that scenario but demon still pretends to be his sister even if you will do that before the quest.And then falling asleep for non-mage at worst means bad dream not demon pretending to be his sister in the fade.

[Dai Grepher]

I was ready to made a similar comment of Dai grepher; but that is not even the only issue .
The DAO quests to gain the allies can be resolved in any order as far as i'm concerened;
I can equally say that i did the circle quest before to visit Denerim, so if Alistair Never met her sister how can he possibly see her in the fade?
Since we know that demons in order to create their illusions need to know
what they are copying, and yet the demon can do that copy perfectly Goldanna even if her image was not even in Alistair's mind yet , or it is possible to never help him to find the true Goldanna at all.
So i can equally say that he entered the fade because he was drunk and dreamed on his own.

 

I think Alistair says something in the game indicating that he has indeed seen Goldanna before in Denerim but has yet to approach her. He just needs the Warden's help in working up the courage to talk to her, but he had tracked her down well ahead of time.

[Dai Grepher]

He's supposed to canonically sober up, I think?

 

I know, but the question was if it would still be canon that he saw "Goldanna" in the Fade during the Broken Circle quest if he makes no appearance in Inquisition and thus does not make his statement that he saw her.
 

[Dai Grepher]

Doesn't matter , making alistair drunk or king was decision made near the end of the game, thus would affect only what happened after decision was made.

 

 

He does mention both his father and demon pretending to be his sister.

 

It doesn't make sense , to be honest it was another example of bioware bad writing decision, there was no need to bring it up in first place when they couldn't handle this. 

 

 

 

Not rly , at best you can argue that devs were lazy or failed to notice and didn't change in-game model in that scenario but demon still pretends to be his sister even if you will do that before the quest.And then falling asleep for non-mage at worst means bad dream not demon pretending to be his sister in the fade.

 

Right, but my question is if Alistair does not make an appearance in Inquisition, and thus does not make the statement that he saw "Goldanna" in the Fade, then is his participation in the Broken Circle quest still mandatorily canon?

 

Next question, if you think this was an example of poor writing, in that the devs did not account for this in Keep, then can't Alistair's quote be dismissed as a writing error and thus non-canon?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Right, but my question is if Alistair does not make an appearance in Inquisition, and thus does not make the statement that he saw "Goldanna" in the Fade, then is his participation in the Broken Circle quest still mandatorily canon?

 

Next question, if you think this was an example of poor writing, in that the devs did not account for this in Keep, then can't Alistair's quote be dismissed as a writing error and thus non-canon?

 

Yes , because as i said choice will only affect what happened after you made choice not before and by that whether he will appear as king , warden or not appear at all difference in other scanarios there won't be opportunity to bring it up.

 

No, bad writing and inconsistency don't establish canon writers do, so pretty much writers even can to throw away and replace things they established before (retcon) and make their future products follow it even if it is horrible writing.  

[Ariella]

He's supposed to canonically sober up, I think?

I saw something about returning to the Wardens but in Orlais.

 It doesn't make sense , to be honest it was another example of bioware bad writing decision...

Actually it's not really inconsistant with the game, since there are a number of places where Varric makes similar statements, especially when discussing Corypheus death. He say that Cory had no breath no pulse, then later on with Bianca he recognizes the name of the Warden Cory possessed and says something to the effect of: I knew something was screwy.

There was no reason not to drop it in.

[Dai Grepher]

Yes , because as i said choice will only affect what happened after you made choice not before and by that whether he will appear as king , warden or not appear at all difference in other scanarios there won't be opportunity to bring it up.

 

No, bad writing and inconsistency don't establish canon writers do, so pretty much writers even can to throw away and replace things they established before (retcon) and make their future products follow it even if it is horrible writing.  

 

Sorry, I didn't understand most of that. Choice will only affect what happened after you made the choice... not before... okay. I understand that part. And by that whether he will appear as king, warden, or not at all... difference in other scenarios there won't be opportunity to bring it up. This is where you lost me. What I'm trying to say is, if Alistair isn't in Inquisition to make the statement about how he saw "Goldanna" in the Fade, then how can that statement apply to that world state as canon? Are you saying that since he made the statement in a world state where he is the Warden contact, it means that it applies directly to Origins as canon?

 

Okay, but if the writers screw up and include a storyline that did not happen in someone's world state, or a storyline that contradicts another, then can't we simply ignore that storyline as a mistake and reject it as canon? For example, my Hero is the King of Ferelden, yet Connor refers to "King Alistair" because the writers or the coders messed up. I can certainly reject what Connor said as non-canon, can't I? And the same goes for Teagan saying Gaspard rules when in fact Celene does (fixed in a recent patch).

[BansheeOwnage]

 

According to Felassan there were no Humans,dwarves,qunari or any other races before of the elves in Thedas

No, dwarves were definitely in Thedas during the time of Elvhenan, though they may not have been as we know them.

 

He's supposed to canonically sober up, I think?

As far as I've heard, Drunkard!Alistair is still the Warden contact, but will (naturally) have a different opinion of the HoF and a slightly different attitude/history etc. So yes, he sobered up.

[Aren]

I can't take Teagan seriously in Trespasser, because I can't help but have my immersion be broken by him. Meaning, when he talks, all I'm thinking are meta-thoughts, like "Why did Bioware choose him to be here?" and "This makes no sense". That's not what you want to happen. Bioware could have chosen any random Fereldan idiot to be at the Council, but they chose Teagan (because cameo!) and made him be displeased with the Inquisition because they needed someone to be displeased with the Inquisition, regardless of whether it made sense with their character.

 

He doesn't even look similar anymore. The only thing that's the same is his voice. If he wasn't actually called Teagan, people probably wouldn't think it was him.

 

/rant

He was just doing his nation best interest.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Actually it's not really inconsistant with the game, since there are a number of places where Varric makes similar statements, especially when discussing Corypheus death. He say that Cory had no breath no pulse, then later on with Bianca he recognizes the name of the Warden Cory possessed and says something to the effect of: I knew something was screwy.

There was no reason not to drop it in.

Eee, what? What does that have with alistair talking about demon pretending to be his sister in the fade?

 

Except they pointlessly disregarded player choice for one line of dialogue? There is reason why not to drop it in , if they couldn't handle implementing previous choice simply don't make references to said choice.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't understand most of that. Choice will only affect what happened after you made the choice... not before... okay. I understand that part. And by that whether he will appear as king, warden, or not at all... difference in other scenarios there won't be opportunity to bring it up. This is where you lost me. What I'm trying to say is, if Alistair isn't in Inquisition to make the statement about how he saw "Goldanna" in the Fade, then how can that statement apply to that world state as canon? Are you saying that since he made the statement in a world state where he is the Warden contact, it means that it applies directly to Origins as canon?

 

Okay, but if the writers screw up and include a storyline that did not happen in someone's world state, or a storyline that contradicts another, then can't we simply ignore that storyline as a mistake and reject it as canon? For example, my Hero is the King of Ferelden, yet Connor refers to "King Alistair" because the writers or the coders messed up. I can certainly reject what Connor said as non-canon, can't I? And the same goes for Teagan saying Gaspard rules when in fact Celene does (fixed in a recent patch).

Yes, as i said your choice concerning Alistair fate happens after said event we are talking about so it wouldn't affect that.Thus , yes it is canon in every case it just doesn't get mentioned in other cases.

 

Then it is bug and it wasn't what devs intended to be there, so yes it wouldn't be canon. Pretty much like they did with mechanical flaw in dao that allowed you to romance two or even 3 characters despite in story said characters were big no on you romancing someone else and forced you to chose.         

 

 

 

 

 

[Aren]

 

 

Okay, but if the writers screw up and include a storyline that did not happen in someone's world state, or a storyline that contradicts another, then can't we simply ignore that storyline as a mistake and reject it as canon? For example, my Hero is the King of Ferelden, yet Connor refers to "King Alistair" because the writers or the coders messed up. I can certainly reject what Connor said as non-canon, can't I? And the same goes for Teagan saying Gaspard rules when in fact Celene does (fixed in a recent patch).

It's just bad writing or a miss of vision,afterall with so many variables they can get lost something,kinda like what happened if you make your Warden the king in DAO,Connor if survived will adress Alistair as king even if he his dead,a warden or a drunk.

As far as i'm concerned this was not fixed,since it is not a bug it is bad writing,so i doubt that they will cll the voice actor just to fix that line 

[Aren]

Eee, what? What does that have with alistair talking about demon pretending to be his sister in the fade?

 

Except they pointlessly disregarded player choice for one line of dialogue? There is reason why not to drop it in , if they couldn't handle implementing previous choice simply don't make references to said choice.

 

 

Yes, as i said your choice concerning Alistair fate happens after said event we are talking about so it wouldn't affect that.Thus , yes it is canon in every case it just doesn't get mentioned in other cases.

 

 

 

 

It's just bad writing due to a missing of choices of the previous DAO read what i said about Connor in my previous post.

[sniper_arrow]

For someone who is well versed in the Game, Florianne must have her IQ lowered when she announced her plans to you.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

It's just bad writing due to a missing of choices of the previous DAO read what i said about Connor in my previous post.

 

It is bad writing however, in Connor case it simply bug not bad writing even if they didn't fix it.Same was for rejecting Leliana bug where she treats as you are her lover or Zevran that should reject Isabela offer if was romanced by the warden and those bugs were never fixed

[Dai Grepher]

As far as I've heard, Drunkard!Alistair is still the Warden contact, but will (naturally) have a different opinion of the HoF and a slightly different attitude/history etc. So yes, he sobered up.

 

Nope. It's Stroud. I think Alistair's quote about the Hero walking a dark path is only if Loghain was executed, Alistair was not made king, and the Hero and Alistair were not friends in Keep (but I don't know for sure). What I do know is that Alistair is a drunk in my Keep and Stroud was the Warden contact.

[Dai Grepher]

Yes, as i said your choice concerning Alistair fate happens after said event we are talking about so it wouldn't affect that.Thus , yes it is canon in every case it just doesn't get mentioned in other cases.

 

Then it is bug and it wasn't what devs intended to be there, so yes it wouldn't be canon. Pretty much like they did with mechanical flaw in dao that allowed you to romance two or even 3 characters despite in story said characters were big no on you romancing someone else and forced you to chose. 

 

Okay, I see what you mean. However, I disagree. I don't think it's canon. I think it's just an oversight by the devs.
 

How do you know Alistair's quote isn't a bug too that went unaccounted for? Anyway, I think this particular discussion is concluded. I reject Alistair's statement as canon since he was not with me to confront the Sloth Demon.

 

Unless Sloth was able to affect the non-party members who were left at the base of the tower and the Warden simply didn't get to see their nightmares.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I can't take Teagan seriously in Trespasser, because I can't help but have my immersion be broken by him. Meaning, when he talks, all I'm thinking are meta-thoughts, like "Why did Bioware choose him to be here?" and "This makes no sense". That's not what you want to happen. Bioware could have chosen any random Fereldan idiot to be at the Council, but they chose Teagan (because cameo!) and made him be displeased with the Inquisition because they needed someone to be displeased with the Inquisition, regardless of whether it made sense with their character.

 

He doesn't even look similar anymore. The only thing that's the same is his voice. If he wasn't actually called Teagan, people probably wouldn't think it was him.

 

/rant

It's been almost 2 decades. I have no idea why you'd expect tegan to look the same.

Wasn't arl eamon like 40? Seems that line doesn't age well.

 

No, dwarves were definitely in Thedas during the time of Elvhenan, though they may not have been as we know them.

 

As far as I've heard, Drunkard!Alistair is still the Warden contact, but will (naturally) have a different opinion of the HoF and a slightly different attitude/history etc. So yes, he sobered up.

...What? Since when? Why would a drunk alistair be more wardeny then warden loghain? >.>

[TheKomandorShepard]

Okay, I see what you mean. However, I disagree. I don't think it's canon. I think it's just an oversight by the devs.
 

How do you know Alistair's quote isn't a bug too that went unaccounted for? Anyway, I think this particular discussion is concluded. I reject Alistair's statement as canon since he was not with me to confront the Sloth Demon.

 

Unless Sloth was able to affect the non-party members who were left at the base of the tower and the Warden simply didn't get to see their nightmares.

 

Because there is no choice to establish whether you took him to the circle, so there can't be an alternative when it comes to that choice thus this isn't bug. 

 

Rejecting canon is pointless unless you reject future products that follow canon, in the end future products will follow canon even if you don't like it.So in the end while playing da 2 or dai saying that you handed Anders to the Templars and Justice died is pointless because in story that products follow choice they both joined WC.  

[Aren]

 saying that you handed Anders to the Templars and Justice died is pointless because in story that products follow choice they both joined WC.  

I don't really appreciate this example since it is reasonable to say that even if Anders was handed to the templars there is still the possibility that he met justice somehow,after that justice left Kristoff body.

[Dai Grepher]

Because there is no choice to establish whether you took him to the circle, so there can't be an alternative when it comes to that choice thus this isn't bug. 

 

Rejecting canon is pointless unless you reject future products that follow canon, in the end future products will follow canon even if you don't like it.So in the end while playing da 2 or dai saying that you handed Anders to the Templars and Justice died is pointless because in story that products follow choice they both joined WC.  

 

So what if there is no choice to establish it? I know for a fact I didn't take him to fight Sloth. Therefore Alistair's quote could be an oversight (again, he never made the quote in my playthrough anyway).

 

I don't reject the canon. I'm saying Alistair's quote isn't canon.
 

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't really appreciate this example since it is reasonable to say that even if Anders was handed to the templars there is still the possibility that he met justice somehow,after that justice left Kristoff body.

Yes and then magically become grey warden and traveled with WC to the blackmarsh without WC knowledge.

Unless Anders is Dreamer or has been allowed to manage lyrium in circle as he pleases (good luck with that) it wouldn't be possible , and then Anders would need another person for justice to possess because he traveled with him for some time before he decided to merge. So well, it is clear that both Anders and Justice were recruited.

 

 

So what if there is no choice to establish it? I know for a fact I didn't take him to fight Sloth. Therefore Alistair's quote could be an oversight (again, he never made the quote in my playthrough anyway).

 

I don't reject the canon. I'm saying Alistair's quote isn't canon.
 

 

That there is no alternative possible and by that it isn't bug. That you didn't use him in broken circle didn't went went beyond your dao playthrough, other games assume you took him whether you did it in dao or not. Also it isn't oversight because developers deliberately referenced to something from origins, so you are telling me that they unintentionally written and voiced dialogue referencing to previous choice? Also as i explained whether Alistair will show up in dai or not is result of decision that was made after whether you took him to the circle or not so that choice wouldn't be affected by it. 

 

So for the moment it is canon and will be unless bioware will decide to change it.