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[Ariella]

The best dictionary definition I can find is: profoundly immoral and malevolent. Adj

Evil as a noun: profound immorality, wickedness and immorality, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.

Source: Google, evil definition.

[IanPolaris]

When you mean darker choices what exactly are you talking about? Sacrificing the Chargers is a dark choice. Allying with that noble that attacked Verichel is a dark choice. Banishing the Wardens is a dark choice. Conscripting either the templars or mages can be a dark choice. Attacking Abelas and his sentinel elves after completing the trials is a dark choice. 

 

What exactly are you looking for?

 

What am I looking for?  I am looking for the ability (should I desire) to be Thedas' equivalent of Torquemada, or even a knowing and outright rival to Corypheus (why should he get godhood when *I* am better suited)?  Play the Templar quest one time, and the Envy demon shows you what he'd turn the inquisition into should he take over your position (and your body).

 

THAT is the option I am looking for....and at least initially Bioware promised us that this dark option would be there.  Even the early promos with Morrigan promised us that we could either save Thedas....or destroy it.

 

None of the choices you mention are particularly dark.  I will often sacrifice the Chargers.  Sometimes a military leader has to send his troops in or even tell his troops to hold a position knowing they will die in order to fulfill a larger objective.  For the most part all a professional soldier asks (and Bull's Chargers ARE professional soldiers) is that if such a sacrifice has to be made that it be worth it.  Whether it is or isn't in this case is up to you and how important you regard an Alliance with the Qun (and how much you trust the Qun).  Remember that by saving Bull's Chargers are you allowing an entire fully crewed Dreadnought to die.

 

All the other choices you mention are similar. They aren't "dark" or even morally questionable choices.  They are all justifiable depending on your point of view and who you trust.  They aren't made strictly speaking just for power or just for dark kicks.  [For example if you really believe that Cory can take over the minds of any Wardens and turn them into a fifth column, banishing them is an entirely justifiable decision.]

[ComedicSociopathy]

 

What am I looking for?  I am looking for the ability (should I desire) to be Thedas' equivalent of Torquemada, or even a knowing and outright rival to Corypheus (why should he get godhood when *I* am better suited)?  Play the Templar quest one time, and the Envy demon shows you what he'd turn the inquisition into should he take over your position (and your body).

 

THAT is the option I am looking for....and at least initially Bioware promised us that this dark option would be there.  Even the early promos with Morrigan promised us that we could either save Thedas....or destroy it.

 

None of the choices you mention are particularly dark.  I will often sacrifice the Chargers.  Sometimes a military leader has to send his troops in or even tell his troops to hold a position knowing they will die in order to fulfill a larger objective.  For the most part all a professional soldier asks (and Bull's Chargers ARE professional soldiers) is that if such a sacrifice has to be made that it be worth it.  Whether it is or isn't in this case is up to you and how important you regard an Alliance with the Qun (and how much you trust the Qun).  Remember that by saving Bull's Chargers are you allowing an entire fully crewed Dreadnought to die.

 

All the other choices you mention are similar. They aren't "dark" or even morally questionable choices.  They are all justifiable depending on your point of view and who you trust.  They aren't made strictly speaking just for power or just for dark kicks.  [For example if you really believe that Cory can take over the minds of any Wardens and turn them into a fifth column, banishing them is an entirely justifiable decision.]

 

 

You can flat out state that you'll lead the Inquisition in your own name and for your own power and you can blackmail all three leaders of Orlais into your service.

 

Both actions seem pretty power-hungry to me.

[Cyberpunk]

Yeah I personally declared the Inquisition for my Inquisitor. I wanted her to be the equivalent of the Emperor from Star Wars. Too bad Bioware couldn't give me that ending . 

[AshenEndymion]

You can flat out state that you'll lead the Inquisition in your own name and for your own power and you can blackmail all three leaders of Orlais into your service.

 

Both actions seem pretty power-hungry to me.

 

And then it's all wiped away by the Inquisitor's utterly stupid decision to not continue with his/her personal quest for power in controlling the whole of Southern Thedas, and instead abandon it all to go after Solas....

[IanPolaris]

You can flat out state that you'll lead the Inquisition in your own name and for your own power and you can blackmail all three leaders of Orlais into your service.

 

Both actions seem pretty power-hungry to me.

 

Piffle.  Play the Templar mission and see how Envy would run the Inquisition.  That option should have been there.

[IanPolaris]

And then it's all wiped away by the Inquisitor's utterly stupid decision to not continue with his/her personal quest for power, and instead abandon it all to go after Solas....

 

Yeah, it's either become a Chantry lapdog or disband.  No.  There should be the option to say "Hell with all of you; don't like me, then make me leave by force."

[Ariella]

You can flat out state that you'll lead the Inquisition in your own name and for your own power and you can blackmail all three leaders of Orlais into your service.
 
Both actions seem pretty power-hungry to me.

And considering that the only thing that the game organization and the RCC organization have in common is a name, it'd be hard to be Torquemada in any event.

The only way one could relate the two Inquisitors is if ingame you play a zealot.

http://www.britannic...s-de-Torquemada

Yeah I personally declared the Inquisition for my Inquisitor. I wanted her to be the equivalent of the Emperor from Star Wars. Too bad Bioware couldn't give me that ending .

Not sure why you'd expect it, since it would make follow games nigh impossible. And they've never given that opportunity in any DA game.

[IanPolaris]

Not sure why you'd expect it, since it would make follow games nigh impossible. And they've never given that opportunity in any DA game.

 

Bioware managed with KOTOR.

[Cobra's_back]

That's post hoc ergo propter hoc.  Obvioiusly if a truly evil option were available in the main part of DAI, Trespasser would have been written to reflect that.

No kidding, which changes the story of one of their lead characters. That was my point all along. 

 

When they thought DAO was a stand alone they could have easily made an evil option.

 

One of the reasons I didn't like DA2 was because I thought Hawk had absolutely no control of his/her environment. Now I know the why. DA2 was just a stepping stone to DAI. For what I can see DA2 leads nicely into DAI. DAI is just a stepping stone to DA4.  Each of our characters are just a small piece of a long story. I now like Hawk more knowing this.

 

Solas is the character we were intended to learn about in DAI to prepare us for DA4. He is a complex character who sees himself as a Good Guy. He is more interesting than Loghain because we had him as a companion all through DAI. The story they gave us doesn't support an evil Inquisitor because of Solas. Our character is suppose to help Solas. This is no different than Hawk could not stop the mage war, and Hawk was going to free Cory.

[Cobra's_back]

And then it's all wiped away by the Inquisitor's utterly stupid decision to not continue with his/her personal quest for power in controlling the whole of Southern Thedas, and instead abandon it all to go after Solas....

That kills the Solas story they had planned for us. Many complained the the villains were stupid in DA2. Now you have a complex villain for DA4.

[AshenEndymion]

No kidding, which changes the story of one of their lead characters. That was my point all along. 

 

When they thought DAO was a stand alone they could have easily made an evil option.

 

One of the reasons I didn't like DA2 was because I thought Hawk had absolutely no control of his/her environment. Now I know the why. DA2 was just a stepping stone to DAI. For what I can see DA2 leads nicely into DAI. DAI is just a stepping stone to DA4.  Each of our characters are just a small piece of a long story. I now like Hawk more knowing this.

 

Solas is the character we were intended to learn about in DAI to prepare us for DA4. He is a complex character who sees himself as a Good Guy. He is more interesting than Loghain because we had him as a companion all through DAI. The story they gave us doesn't support an evil Inquisitor because of Solas. Our character is suppose to help Solas. This is no different than Hawk could not stop the mage war, and Hawk was going to free Cory.

 

Point of correction:  Solas doesn't see himself as a good guy.  He sees himself as a necessity.  There is no good or evil in what he does, just as there is no good or evil in a hurricane/earthquake/flood...

 

Also, the Inquisitor isn't supposed to help Solas.  S/He's supposed to play the fool, and do nothing, while Solas accomplishes his goal.  Which is what happens whether the Inquisitor tries to help or not...

[Cyberpunk]

Yeah, it's either become a Chantry lapdog or disband.  No.  There should be the option to say "Hell with all of you; don't like me, then make me leave by force."

 

I agree. I wanted that option. Bring it on! I can take on all comers. 

[Ariella]

Bioware managed with KOTOR.

And did they make K2, in which Revan has disapeared? Nope. And much retconning was had.

I said DA games not Bioware games. No DA game has ever given the PC that kind of option because of how difficult it would make follow on games.

[IanPolaris]

That kills the Solas story they had planned for us. Many complained the the villains were stupid in DA2. Now you have a complex villain for DA4.

 

I'm not convinced there was a Solas story all along, and even if there were, it still could have been told.

[Cobra's_back]

If Mass Effect were told from a Krogan point of view, Shepard could be considered a villain based on the choices s/he made... If that's not what you mean, then I'm uncertain what you mean by "in any other story"....

I played Mass Effect and you were never evil. You still saved the world. In Mass Effect 2, player can screw up with companions resulting in everyone dies except Joker. You still tell Joker to save himself not very evil.

[IanPolaris]

And did they make K2, in which Revan has disapeared? Nope. And much retconning was had.

I said DA games not Bioware games. No DA game has ever given the PC that kind of option because of how difficult it would make follow on games.

 

Actually Bioware could have made K2 and they were heavily involved with Obsidian when they made it.  As for retconning, there was less of it than you make out.  Frankly there has been much more and far more egregious retconning with DAI (Dalish, Second Exalted March...no Mother Giselle, other nations DID take part in that not just Orlais, etc) then there ever was with Kotor.

[IanPolaris]

I played Mass Effect and you were never evil. You still saved the world. In Mass Effect 2, player can screw up with companions resulting in everyone dies except Joker. You still tell Joker to save himself not very evil.

 

You could commit genocide in ME1.  You could completely betray the Internal Affairs Investigator on Noveria essentially for kicks and a few hundred more credits.  I could go on, but a Torfan Dark Shepard could be really, *REALLY* Dark.  Just because you are evil doesn't mean you want the Galaxy to burn.  The Reapers aren't known for "sharing"......

[IanPolaris]

I played Mass Effect and you were never evil. You still saved the world. In Mass Effect 2, player can screw up with companions resulting in everyone dies except Joker. You still tell Joker to save himself not very evil.

 

Shepard in ME2 was a lot more sanitized than Shepard in ME1.  About the only way you get everyone killed in ME2 is if you are a dumb-dumb, not if you are evil.

[AshenEndymion]

That kills the Solas story they had planned for us. Many complained the the villains were stupid in DA2. Now you have a complex villain for DA4.

 

Does it though?  I mean, if DA4 has the player character as the Inquisitor, I'd agree... But seeing as how DA4 won't, I fail to see how the Inquisitor remaining in charge of the Inquisition ruins "the Solas story".

 

Especially if the Inquisitor in charge of the Inquisition were an elf and wanted to assist the Dread Wolf in accomplishing all of his goals...

 

 

I played Mass Effect and you were never evil. You still saved the world. In Mass Effect 2, player can screw up with companions resulting in everyone dies except Joker. You still tell Joker to save himself not very evil.

 

You must have never assisted in the permanence of the Genophage.  Or chose between the genocide of the Quarians or Geth.  The viewpoint of the Krogan would see the former be "evil".  The viewpoint of the Quarian/Geth bit would see the latter be "evil"...

 

As I said... If you don't mean that, I don't really understand what you meant by "in any other story"...

[Cobra's_back]

 

I'm not convinced there was a Solas story all along, and even if there were, it still could have been told.

 

This is DA and they have been talking about the dread wolf since DAO. Could they have written a different story?

 

Sure, but that leaves out Solas the complex good guy villain. 

[IanPolaris]

This is DA and they have been talking about the dread wolf since DAO. Could they have written a different story?

 

Sure, but that leaves out Solas the complex good guy villain. 

 

I don't see why.  As was just said above, I could see an Elven Inquisitor siding with the Dread Wolf (esp if a mage).  It's not like the protagonist is going to be the inquisitor in DA4.

[Ariella]

I'm not convinced there was a Solas story all along, and even if there were, it still could have been told.

Not without fundementally changing DAI to the point it was no longer DAI.

And that there was not a Solas story? As in from the beginning of DA or as of DAI's creation? Because I can say there's been a connection between Flemeth and the Dalish since Stolen Throne, and the Qunari Serabaas in Dragon Age Redemption stole the Mask of Fen'harel. A mask that could open tears in the Veil, and the Serabaas speaks as if he's addressing the Dread Wolf directly.

So they were thinking in that direction at least by the time Mark came out. Probably before.

[IanPolaris]

You must have never assisted in the permanence of the Genophage.  Or chose between the genocide of the Quarians or Geth.  The viewpoint of the Krogan would see the former be "evil".  The viewpoint of the Quarian/Geth bit would see the latter be "evil"...

 

As I said... If you don't mean that, I don't really understand what you meant by "in any other story"...

 

Not only that but if you are a really evil Shepard, you can make sure Eve dies as well which lets you keep Mordin alive.  My Evil Fem-Sheps tend to romance Garrus, and I love his line when he finds out.  "You.....tricked Wreav?  Remind me never to play Poker with you...."

[IanPolaris]

Not without fundementally changing DAI to the point it was no longer DAI.

And that there was not a Solas story? As in from the beginning of DA or as of DAI's creation? Because I can say there's been a connection between Flemeth and the Dalish since Stolen Throne, and the Qunari Serabaas in Dragon Age Redemption stole the Mask of Fen'harel. A mask that could open tears in the Veil, and the Serabaas speaks as if he's addressing the Dread Wolf directly.

So they were thinking in that direction at least by the time Mark came out. Probably before.

 

I don't see why not.  If the next protagonist in DA4 was going to be the Quizzy, I might agree, but he (or she) won't be.  So I don't see why an evil Quizzy would fundamentally alter the Solas/Mythal story even if that had been the intention from the start (and I am not at all convinced that it was).