170 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

Does it though?  I mean, if DA4 has the player character as the Inquisitor, I'd agree... But seeing as how DA4 won't, I fail to see how the Inquisitor remaining in charge of the Inquisition ruins "the Solas story".

 

Especially if the Inquisitor in charge of the Inquisition were an elf and wanted to assist the Dread Wolf in accomplishing all of his goals...

 

 

 

You must have never assisted in the permanence of the Genophage.  Or chose between the genocide of the Quarians or Geth.  The viewpoint of the Krogan would see the former be "evil".  The viewpoint of the Quarian/Geth bit would see the latter be "evil"...

He doesn't let you, because he is not proud that he will be committing genocide. Bioware wants us to like him even when the outcome is grim. 

 

Shepard's story ends in ME3. So if you made an evil Inquisitor then Solas should kill you in Trespassers.

[IanPolaris]

He doesn't let you, because he is not proud that he will be committing genocide. Bioware wants us to like him even when the outcome is grim. 

 

Shepard's story ends in ME3. So if you made an evil Inquisitor then Solas should kill you in Trespassers.

 

Which adds all of one short cut-scene and a line of dialog.  Done.  It doesn't really alter the larger story at all since the Quizzy's story is coming to an end regardless.  My point is that it could (and IMHO should) have been done...especially since Bioware at least very strongly implied at the start that this option would exist.

[Ariella]

Actually Bioware could have made K2 and they were heavily involved with Obsidian when they made it.  As for retconning, there was less of it than you make out.  Frankly there has been much more and far more egregious retconning with DAI (Dalish, Second Exalted March...no Mother Giselle, other nations DID take part in that not just Orlais, etc) then there ever was with Kotor.

Sorry but no, Bioware had no part in K2, look it up.

And please cite your information?

They Retconned Revan out of the damn galaxy so you wouldn't have to deal with it.

And that's not to mention everything with Kriea, but they removed uber Jedi ruling the galaxy so they could do a new story. Thus Revan running off yada yada.

[Ariella]

I don't see why not.  If the next protagonist in DA4 was going to be the Quizzy, I might agree, but he (or she) won't be.  So I don't see why an evil Quizzy would fundamentally alter the Solas/Mythal story even if that had been the intention from the start (and I am not at all convinced that it was).

Because Solas wouldn't have gotten involved. Which is cobra's point.

And when I say Mark, I mean Mark of the Assassin which was 2012. So they've been thinking about Solas for a long time.

[IanPolaris]

Sorry but no, Bioware had no part in K2, look it up.

And please cite your information?

They Retconned Revan out of the damn galaxy so you wouldn't have to deal with it.

And that's not to mention everything with Kriea, but they removed uber Jedi ruling the galaxy so they could do a new story. Thus Revan running off yada yada.

 

Actually on the actual credits of K2, they thank Bioware for their help.  Bioware had no official part, but K2 was strongly influence by Bioware and was based on what Bioware would have done had a sequel been done.  Remember too that even in Kotor 1 there was far more to Revan's story then met the eye so removing him from the galaxy wasn't that far out of line.  It also was NOT a retcon.  Look up retcon.

[IanPolaris]

Because Solas wouldn't have gotten involved. Which is cobra's point.

And when I say Mark, I mean Mark of the Assassin which was 2012. So they've been thinking about Solas for a long time.

 

Sure he would have.  Initially Solas would have no idea what your Quizzy was like.  After a while, Solas would have a choice.  Help the Quizzy or help Cory since he was still too weak to recover the orb on his own.  Cory had effective immortality; the Quizzy does not.  Easy choice.

[Cobra's_back]

 

Piffle.  Play the Templar mission and see how Envy would run the Inquisition.  That option should have been there.

 

That is what Envy wants you to see but it is not a real possible reality. Envy doesn't know Cassandra or your other team members. Cass is not going to let you enter the Black City. You would have to kill her.

[AshenEndymion]

Which adds all of one short cut-scene and a line of dialog.  Done.  It doesn't really alter the larger story at all since the Quizzy's story is coming to an end regardless.  My point is that it could (and IMHO should) have been done...especially since Bioware at least very strongly implied at the start that this option would exist.

 

The only explanation for the Inquisitor not to have an evil option, that I can think of, would be "the inquisitor saves the world from Solas".  In which case, why would the Inquisitor not be the protagonist of DA4.

 

If it's a matter of the Inquisitor's companions, an "evil" Inquisitor who chose power of the inquisition over saving the world, could easily find themselves abandoned by all their friends(and love interest, if applicable).  If it's about the Inquisition as a force in Southern Thedas, then it could be pointed out that the Inquisitor likely loses their grasp on power because the mark was what people feared/respected, and it's gone now...

 

There.  Two lines of dialogue/codex writing...

 

Because Solas wouldn't have gotten involved. Which is cobra's point.

And when I say Mark, I mean Mark of the Assassin which was 2012. So they've been thinking about Solas for a long time.

 

Solas would have gotten involved with the Inquisition regardless.  Solas was just there to get the Orb back.  He didn't care about Corypheus, the rifts, or anything the Inquisition did.  All he gave a crap about was the Inquisition trusting Solas enough for him to be in a position to take the Orb when the Inquisition found it....

[IanPolaris]

That is what Envy wants you to see but it is not a real possible reality. Envy doesn't know Cassandra or your other team members. Cass is not going to let you enter the Black City. You would have to kill her.

 

Cass has no power to close the rifts.  She has to put up with you.

[Ariella]

And then it's all wiped away by the Inquisitor's utterly stupid decision to not continue with his/her personal quest for power in controlling the whole of Southern Thedas, and instead abandon it all to go after Solas....

Actually you're simplfying things a little much.

We're told about the time we get to Skyhold that the Inquisition's sovereignity derives from its allies, which is why some judgements are limited (Samson and a living Florianne for example).

Those allies are about to pull the carpet out from under you, which leaves you with a few choices:

Disband
Go under Chantry authority
Or possibly start a war that would wreck Southern Thedas.

Since the last wouldn't work with the story Bioware wants to tell, the last one is right out. So either you down size or you disband. The other options would introduce far too many variables especially with the war in the north.

[Cobra's_back]

Which adds all of one short cut-scene and a line of dialog.  Done.  It doesn't really alter the larger story at all since the Quizzy's story is coming to an end regardless.  My point is that it could (and IMHO should) have been done...especially since Bioware at least very strongly implied at the start that this option would exist.

 

I don't know that. Hawk shows up in DAI. You may be an adviser or supporter in DA4.

[Cobra's_back]

Cass has no power to close the rifts.  She has to put up with you.

You would no longer want to close Rifts because you want to enter the Black City and claim the throne. That is the same goal Cory has.

[IanPolaris]

I don't know that. Hawk shows up in DAI. You may be an adviser or supporter in DA4.

 

DAI could have easily been written with Hawke not showing up though.  Hawke was a pure cameo.  Same goes for the Quizzy.  I think it's pretty clear the Quizzy will not be the protagonist of DA4 esp w/losing an arm.

[IanPolaris]

You would no longer want to close Rifts because you want to enter the Black City and claim the throne. That is the same goal Cory has.

 

Not until you know what to do when you get there.  Cory has a head start on you and he's immortal (and you're not).  All the more reason to slow him down while you play catch up.

[Cobra's_back]

Sure he would have.  Initially Solas would have no idea what your Quizzy was like.  After a while, Solas would have a choice.  Help the Quizzy or help Cory since he was still too weak to recover the orb on his own.  Cory had effective immortality; the Quizzy does not.  Easy choice.

Then Solas doesn't become the big powerful guy in DA4. You enter the Black City become a god and Solas is a zero. Doesn't support their plans for Solas does it.

[Ariella]

The only explanation for the Inquisitor not to have an evil option, that I can think of, would be "the inquisitor saves the world from Solas".  In which case, why would the Inquisitor not be the protagonist of DA4.
 
If it's a matter of the Inquisitor's companions, an "evil" Inquisitor who chose power of the inquisition over saving the world, could easily find themselves abandoned by all their friends(and love interest, if applicable).  If it's about the Inquisition as a force in Southern Thedas, then it could be pointed out that the Inquisitor likely loses their grasp on power because the mark was what people feared/respected, and it's gone now...
 
There.  Two lines of dialogue/codex writing...
 

 
Solas would have gotten involved with the Inquisition regardless.  Solas was just there to get the Orb back.  He didn't care about Corypheus, the rifts, or anything the Inquisition did.  All he gave a crap about was the Inquisition trusting Solas enough for him to be in a position to take the Orb when the Inquisition found it....

He wouldn't have do so directly. Just as he was not directly involved with Corypheus.

It was a greater risk for him to come out of the shadows and possibly get caught than stay and pull strings.

[AshenEndymion]

Since the last wouldn't work with the story Bioware wants to tell, the last one is right out. So either you down size or you disband. The other options would introduce far too many variables especially with the war in the north.

 

Which, again, brings up the problem with putting "for power" as a reason for becoming the Inquisitor to begin with... If you're going to give the option to make the Inquisitor a selfish git, then there's no reason for the Inquisitor to stop being a selfish git when you try to take said power away...

 

As for the variables angle.  It's a problem.  But Bioware can just do what they've done with the other Dragon Age variables they didn't want to deal with:  Ignore them completely.

[IanPolaris]

He wouldn't have do so directly. Just as he was not directly involved with Corypheus.

It was a greater risk for him to come out of the shadows and possibly get caught than stay and pull strings.

 

He was out of options to do anything indirectly.  He tells you this himself.

[Ariella]

Then Solas doesn't become the big powerful guy in DA4. You enter the Black City become a god and Solas is a zero. Doesn't support their plans for Solas does it.

Or he just ends the world...

[AshenEndymion]

He wouldn't have do so directly. Just as he was not directly involved with Corypheus.

It was a greater risk for him to come out of the shadows and possibly get caught than stay and pull strings.

 

Solas wouldn't have done what directly?  Not gotten the Orb?  Not joined the Inquisition?  The fact that Solas is standing in Haven with Cassandra when the Inquisitor is found, says that he would have joined the Inquisition....  And he would have stuck around until he found the Orb, regardless of what the Inquisitor said or did(because, again, that's what Solas does anyway).

[Ariella]

Which, again, brings up the problem with putting "for power" as a reason for becoming the Inquisitor to begin with... If you're going to give the option to make the Inquisitor a selfish git, then there's no reason for the Inquisitor to stop being a selfish git when you try to take said power away...
 
As for the variables angle.  It's a problem.  But Bioware can just do what they've done with the other Dragon Age variables they didn't want to deal with:  Ignore them completely.

You can do selfish things. Mistress Poulin comes to mind if you're a Trevelyan. You can take all her money, ****** people off something fierce. Grave robbing in the Plains is another one.

You can ignore or wave away minor things, the fact that the Inquisitor has just incited a war in the south by refusing to disband or accept oversight? Not so much.

And yes it's very different from being Prince Consort or Queen Consort. You're not ruling alone or even ruling at all.

[IanPolaris]

You can do selfish things. Mistress Poulin comes to mind if you're a Trevelyan. You can take all her money, ****** people off something fierce. Grave robbing in the Plains is another one.

You can ignore or wave away minor things, the fact that the Inquisitor has just incited a war in the south by refusing to disband or accept oversight? Not so much.

And yes it's very different from being Prince Consort or Queen Consort. You're not ruling alone or even ruling at all.

 

Yet in DAA (DAO expansion) your PC could act as a ruling Arl, destroy Amaranthine and provoke a trade war with Rivvain (we find this out in DA2).

[Cobra's_back]

Sure he would have.  Initially Solas would have no idea what your Quizzy was like.  After a while, Solas would have a choice.  Help the Quizzy or help Cory since he was still too weak to recover the orb on his own.  Cory had effective immortality; the Quizzy does not.  Easy choice.

Key word is recover the orb not give it to you or Cory. He was helping you because you were helping him. Remember he was suppose to be the Trickster. Not a very good one if you can fool him easily. 

[Cobra's_back]

Solas wouldn't have done what directly?  Not gotten the Orb?  Not joined the Inquisition?  The fact that Solas is standing in Haven with Cassandra when the Inquisitor is found, says that he would have joined the Inquisition....  And he would have stuck around until he found the Orb, regardless of what the Inquisitor said or did(because, again, that's what Solas does anyway).

He does it to get his orb back not make you a god. So somewhere along the line he would take the orb back from either you or Cory. Your job was to help him succeed. You just didn't know it.

[Cobra's_back]

Yet in DAA (DAO expansion) your PC could act as a ruling Arl, destroy Amaranthine and provoke a trade war with Rivvain (we find this out in DA2).

You destroyed a city pretty minor compared to destroy the world and make yourself a god.