170 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

Neither of those acts is inherently evil. It's making ugly decisions in the short term for long term benefits.

Keeping Cullen on lyrium can easily be justified. He is commander of the Inquisition's forces, and if his withdrawal symptoms seriously hinder his ability to do his job, then keeping him on lyrium until Corypheus is defeated is a sensible precaution. Even if you did know that he might succumb to lyrium dementia afterwards, if there was a serious chance that him operating at less than peak performance might lead to the Inquisition failing, then it would still be justified. The Inquisition is at war, and in war people suffer and die in order to achieve victory. If Cullen's long term sanity has to be sacrificed for victory, that's a still a valid sacrifice to make.

As for Leliana, she is killing those who oppose badly needed reforms that will make the Chantry a more inclusive and accountable organisation. Much like in a revolution, the old regime must be purged to ensure that it cannot stage a counterrevolution later and reverse said reforms. Leliana killing off the dissenters quickly is simply nipping a future conflict in the bud before it gets off the ground, and likely preventing far greater violence and suffering in the long run.

Evil can always be easily justified. That's kind of the point. Look at Ras Al Ghul (not the movie version, the comics one or the animated one). He doesn't see himself as evil, everything he does is easily justifiable in his world view, but it becomes does the end justify the means. Is it really worth the potential destruction of a man's life, when it's been demonstrated that man CAN function without the drug in question and you're also told by an expert she believes he can break from the addiction?

As for Leliana. seeing people as disposable tools, death as the first sanction. These aren't good things. You can justify it all you want.

Actually Cassandra makes this point right after her personal quest. That the corruption set in and the excuse that was always given was it was for "the People".

[TheKomandorShepard]

Evil can always be easily justified. That's kind of the point. Look at Ras Al Ghul (not the movie version, the comics one or the animated one). He doesn't see himself as evil, everything he does is easily justifiable in his world view, but it becomes does the end justify the means. Is it really worth the potential destruction of a man's life, when it's been demonstrated that man CAN function without the drug in question and you're also told by an expert she believes he can break from the addiction?

As for Leliana. seeing people as disposable tools, death as the first sanction. These aren't good things. You can justify it all you want.

Actually Cassandra makes this point right after her personal quest. That the corruption set in and the excuse that was always given was it was for "the People".

 

Evil is just word for what individual or or the group of people don't like. Yes, pretty much every nation follows rule that risking its safety for sake of 1 individual isn't worth it.

 

She is spymaster that is her job, she ain't there to play nice only to efficiently collect information and quietly eliminate opposition in order to success.And yes those are good things because thanks to such tactics countries are efficient and can keep their thing together.

 

Cassandra was working for such individual and praise her to heavens so i don't think she can have say in that, despite Justinia was ****** and Leliana is one as well as their end goal would be disastrous.  
 

[Darkly Tranquil]

Is it really worth the potential destruction of a man's life, when it's been demonstrated that man CAN function without the drug in question and you're also told by an expert she believes he can break from the addiction?

The life of one man, when weighed against the possibility of the Inquisition failing, isn't worth it. Any chance that he might falter when it matters is too great a risk to take when the fate of the world is in the balance. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter a whit what happens to Cullen. All that matters is closing the Breach and killing Corypheus.

As for Leliana. seeing people as disposable tools, death as the first sanction. These aren't good things. You can justify it all you want. Actually Cassandra makes this point right after her personal quest. That the corruption set in and the excuse that was always given was it was for "the People".

When you're in a position of power as great as that people are disposable tools, it naïve to think otherwise. The Inquisitor is no different; all the soldiers the Inquisition commands are disposable tools. How many hundreds or thousands are thrown at the walls of Adamant fortress just so we can break in? The simple fact is that human (and elven, dwarven, qunari, etc. I suppose) lives are the currency great powers gamble in their games of power. So Leliana kills a few dissenters to stamp out rebellion and assert her power, if it leads to fewer deaths in the long run, it's a good gamble.

[TheKomandorShepard]

When you're in a position of power as great as that people are disposable tools, it naïve to think otherwise. The Inquisitor is no different; all the soldiers the Inquisition commands are disposable tools. How many hundreds or thousands are thrown at the walls of Adamant fortress just so we can break in? The simple fact is that human (and elven, dwarven, qunari, etc. I suppose) lives are the currency great powers gamble in their games of power. So Leliana kills a few dissenters to stamp out rebellion and assert her power, if it leads to fewer deaths in the long run, it's a good gamble.

 

Except leliana endangers not only even more lives with her reforms but world safety, so horrible gamble.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Except leliana endangers not only even more lives with her reforms but world safety, so horrible gamble.

Well it's a matter of perspective. From her PoV it's a good gamble.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well it's a matter of perspective. From her PoV it's a good gamble.

Well of course, if you are suicidal and your goal is to die taking everyone with you, but for rest of the world it isn't.So sacrificing lives of few for lives of many doesn't take place here in fact quite opposite.

[Cobra's_back]

There are some drugs that will KILL you if you try to go off them cold-turkey.  For many people (in Thedas) Lyrium is one of them.  As far as our Inquisitor is concerned, he (or she) doesn't know if Cullen is one of these.  We do know that even if going cold turkey off Lyrium doesn't kill you, it DOES have strong adversely negative effects....so keeping Cullen on Lyrium at least for the duration of the emergency is not ipso facto an evil act.    We can not know (in character) what the consequences will be so arguing from the Trespasser ending slide is out of bounds.

 

As for Lelianna, I guess you'd think that Peter the Great was evil too.  I don't.  Sometimes it takes violence to make necessary change happen.

 

I want to be careful not to offend anyone's culture or history but plenty of leaders have committed evil acts.

 

evil 

adj

1. morally wrong or bad; wicked: an evil ruler.

2. causing harm or injury; harmful: an evil plan.

3. marked or accompanied by misfortune; unlucky: an evil fate.

4. (of temper, disposition, etc) characterized by anger or spite

5. not in high esteem; infamous: an evil reputation.

 

Now some say Mao Zedong was a mass murderer, and yet there are many in China that see him as a great leader. In any population you can find people who will justify just about anything. I'm not trying to throw stones at China. They are a great society, and I respect them. However, I see some of his acts as evil.

 

Now about that game we played. Cass tells you Cullen can kick the habit. The lyrium is causing harm to him. Is it evil to push him to take it? Yes, you know it is causing him harm.

 

Therefore, per the definition above I see keeping Cullen on drugs, and keeping Leliana crazy as evil acts. We know Justina was remorseful as well. She stated she failed her.

 

 

Now mass killing, raping whatever is not going to fly with all your companions. My guess is you would have to kill Cass, and a few other companions. Bioware makes you the leader of the Inquisition, not ruler of all. I don't think Bioware wants you to be an Emperor/Divine/Dictator. In the end, such an inquisitor should face a trial and execution because you are not the  Emperor/Divine/Dictator of all of Thedas. 

 

Didn't we have to face the Ferelden delegate, the Orlesian delegate , and the head of Chantry at the end of the game? We were never ruler of all. Sounds like this story doesn't fit your needs.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Morality is nice, but it has no place in politics.

[Ariella]

The life of one man, when weighed against the possibility of the Inquisition failing, isn't worth it. Any chance that he might falter when it matters is too great a risk to take when the fate of the world is in the balance. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter a whit what happens to Cullen. All that matters is closing the Breach and killing Corypheus.

Thing is, if it doesn't matter, then your people just become pawns ro move around on a table. A good commander doesn't spend lives recklessly, because that's who you're fighting for.

As I said, Cullen, in the situation presented in game, is having a crisis of confidance as much as an issue with withdrawl. If you play Adamant first, Krem still tells you Cullen breached that fortess like he's done it a dozen times. Cassandra, whom he personally asked to evaluate him, says he's fine.

Under those circumstances, without any real evidence or pattern of behavior that indicates his abilities have been compromised, added to the fact he's managed to go months with little more than some irritability and headaches, ordering him to go back on a drug with such deleterious effects is immoral.

When you're in a position of power as great as that people are disposable tools, it naïve to think otherwise. The Inquisitor is no different; all the soldiers the Inquisition commands are disposable tools. How many hundreds or thousands are thrown at the walls of Adamant fortress just so we can break in? The simple fact is that human (and elven, dwarven, qunari, etc. I suppose) lives are the currency great powers gamble in their games of power. So Leliana kills a few dissenters to stamp out rebellion and assert her power, if it leads to fewer deaths in the long run, it's a good gamble.

Not naive, just an understanding of human nature. It's easier to sacrifice lives if they're numbers in a spreadsheet. But for a good commander, those lives aren't numbers, and they aren't to be spilled out like water.

Yes, war means sacrifice, but if killing becomes the first tool you grab every time, then there's a problem. And you certainly don't throw lives away when there's no odds you'd gain anything.

I'm aware of what Machiavelli said, but he was wrong. A leader who has the trust of his troops, who inspires them gives them something of incalculable value: hope.

A commander who is feared, who throws away lives needlessly, who sees their troops as markers to be moved about, inspires no loyalty, no hope.

A soldier who fears his commander will follow the letter of his commands, no more. A soldier who trusts and believes will go beyond that, and will be willing to make the sacrifice when it really is required.

Tldr: you don't sacrifice soldiers you don't have to or where you'd make little to no gain in their sacrifice.

[Cobra's_back]

Well it's a matter of perspective. From her PoV it's a good gamble.

She went nuts. Remember Justina thinks she wronged Leliana. People that kill all opposition may actually be suffering from mental illness. Again, I don't want to upset anyone's culture.

 

"Stalin died on March 5 1953 at one of his dachas outside Moscow at the age of 74 after suffering a massive stroke. Dr Myasnikov, wrote that the hardening of the dictator's brain arteries had convinced him that the condition had played havoc with Stalin's already complex character for years. The doctor wrote, "It is easy to imagine that in Stalin it caused him to lose the ability to distinguish between what was good and bad and who is a friend and who is an enemy". At the same time, people's personality traits become exaggerated: an angry person becomes evil, a slightly suspicious one painfully paranoid. This completely matches Stalin's behavior in the last years of his life."

 

The later years of Stalin's almost three-decade rule were marked by his brutal internal deportation of entire peoples within the Soviet Union, by his attempts to play down his doomed non-aggression pact with Hitler, and by his fabrication of a far-fetched plot by Soviet doctors to murder him and other top officials. 

 

She was losing it. You can keep Leliana hardened as  Divine. That doesn't mean she will be good at her job.

[IanPolaris]

Actually it turns out that hardened Lelianna is a MUCH better and MUCH more effective Divine than one you've softened.

[sylvanaerie]

In Awakenings, if you lack the persuasion to make the revolting peasants back down, you have to option to placate them with food/goods they are seeking or to put the rebellion down violently.  In the long run, it saves more lives to kill those revolting then because post game, you get a slide that says they rebelled again, thinking they would get away with it, and even more lives were lost in the rebellion that time.

 

Sometimes even actions that seem bad at the time (or good) have repercussions that may or may not be foreseen.  

While I don't think having Cullen continue to take the Lyrium while fighting Corypheus is evil per se, I'd try my damnedest after Cory's gone to see he kicks it, even if it means personally watching him 24/7 till he's over the withdrawal hurdle.  At best I'd consider it a temporary measure/necessary evil. 

 

FWIW, I always help him kick the habit.  Since I have a personal history with alcoholic relatives, there's something very cathartic in his story arc, especially if you help him with his addiction.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Actually it turns out that hardened Lelianna is a MUCH better and MUCH more effective Divine than one you've softened.

Every leliana is extremely naive and destructive in her goals, but yes she is more effective than softened what doesn't rly matter how effective you are in avoiding obstacles if your goal leads straight into the abyss.

 

Of course realistically speaking if not that leliana is writers pet and mary sue she would be dead in 1 or 2 years max.

[Ariella]

She went nuts. Remember Justina thinks she wronged Leliana. People that kill all opposition may actually be suffering from mental illness. Again, I don't want to upset anyone's culture.
 
"Stalin died on March 5 1953 at one of his dachas outside Moscow at the age of 74 after suffering a massive stroke. Dr Myasnikov, wrote that the hardening of the dictator's brain arteries had convinced him that the condition had played havoc with Stalin's already complex character for years. The doctor wrote, "It is easy to imagine that in Stalin it caused him to lose the ability to distinguish between what was good and bad and who is a friend and who is an enemy". At the same time, people's personality traits become exaggerated: an angry person becomes evil, a slightly suspicious one painfully paranoid. This completely matches Stalin's behavior in the last years of his life."
 
The later years of Stalin's almost three-decade rule were marked by his brutal internal deportation of entire peoples within the Soviet Union, by his attempts to play down his doomed non-aggression pact with Hitler, and by his fabrication of a far-fetched plot by Soviet doctors to murder him and other top officials. 
 
She was losing it. You can keep Leliana hardened as  Divine. That doesn't mean she will be good at her job.

Hardening of the arteries really wouldn't be classified as a mental illness. Mental illness is generally used as a term for imbalance deficiency in the brain itself ie lack of one neurotransmitter, too much of another. Not saying that his condition didn't impair his ability. It sounds like it did, but I would't jump to classify it as a mental illness.

However, she's been through several traumatic experiences (it's been implied that during her incarceration in Denerim she was raped as well as tortured), and has just suffered the loss of someone who was a mentor and second mother. She's hurting and the fact she does't want to or won't talk about it. That she plays her pain off as a weakness is a BAD thing.

[Cobra's_back]

Hardening of the arteries really wouldn't be classified as a mental illness. Mental illness is generally used as a term for imbalance deficiency in the brain itself ie lack of one neurotransmitter, too much of another. Not saying that his condition didn't impair his ability. It sounds like it did, but I would't jump to classify it as a mental illness.

However, she's been through several traumatic experiences (it's been implied that during her incarceration in Denerim she was raped as well as tortured), and has just suffered the loss of someone who was a mentor and second mother. She's hurting and the fact she does't want to or won't talk about it. That she plays her pain off as a weakness is a BAD thing.

 

True. That was a quote from his doctor.  Stalin had a mental illness it was just not publicly known.  Per History: Joseph Stalin, General Secretary of Soviet Communist Party 1922–1952; Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Paranoid Personality Disorder, Manic Depression.

 

My guess Dr. Myasnikov was unable to give the real story. Stalin's mental illness was hidden, but historians did piece together his profile from his personal diary and doctor's notes. 

 

"Studies of Stalin and Mental Illness

 

“Personality and Foreign Policy: The Case of Stalin,” which appeared in the journal Political Psychology is an excellent source in understanding the theory that Stalin’s terrorizing behavior stemmed from paranoia. The author, Raymond Birt, explains that paranoia often begins during childhood in a situation in which the child feels both dependent on and threatened by the father. Stalin indeed experienced this situation with his drunken and abusive father. Birt claims his behavior while in power is indicative of a paranoid need to protect his narcissistic ego from external threats. This journal article is a good source because it explains how paranoia develops and then connects it to Stalin’s case. It is easy to understand and makes a strong case for mental illness in Stalin.

 

Birt, Raymond. “Personality and Foreign Policy: The Case of Stalin,” Political Psychology 14.4 (1993): 607-625."

 

I was making two points:

• Some leaders who were considered great were mentally ill.
• Killing anyone who disagrees with you is more a sign of paranoia and illogical.

I also agree that her problems were temporary and environmental. You can help her heal. This was not the case for some historical leaders who really needed medication.

[Cobra's_back]

Actually it turns out that hardened Lelianna is a MUCH better and MUCH more effective Divine than one you've softened.

 

Leliana is not the person I pick for Divine ever. Cassandra is my pick. She can reform while maintaining stability of the organizations. As far as I'm concern reform is best done gradually with a level headed thinker.

 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong I like Leliana just don't see her as a good pick for that job. To be honest Justina was part of the problem as well. She had Leliana do her dirty work.

 

Cass states that Varric wouldn't go anywhere near a Chantry. Cass wanted to change that. Another cloak and dagger Divine is more of the same and dishonest. 

[Cobra's_back]

In Awakenings, if you lack the persuasion to make the revolting peasants back down, you have to option to placate them with food/goods they are seeking or to put the rebellion down violently.  In the long run, it saves more lives to kill those revolting then because post game, you get a slide that says they rebelled again, thinking they would get away with it, and even more lives were lost in the rebellion that time.

 

Sometimes even actions that seem bad at the time (or good) have repercussions that may or may not be foreseen.  

While I don't think having Cullen continue to take the Lyrium while fighting Corypheus is evil per se, I'd try my damnedest after Cory's gone to see he kicks it, even if it means personally watching him 24/7 till he's over the withdrawal hurdle.  At best I'd consider it a temporary measure/necessary evil. 

 

FWIW, I always help him kick the habit.  Since I have a personal history with alcoholic relatives, there's something very cathartic in his story arc, especially if you help him with his addiction.

 

Same here and one that battled Bi-Polar disorder. It is not easy helping them, but not doing so could mean death. 

[Ariella]

The life of one man, when weighed against the possibility of the Inquisition failing, isn't worth it. Any chance that he might falter when it matters is too great a risk to take when the fate of the world is in the balance. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter a whit what happens to Cullen. All that matters is closing the Breach and killing Corypheus.

Thing is, you've been given absolutely no indication that he CAN'T do the job, that's my point. Experts are telling you that he's fine. You don't suddenly upend your entire command structure because he's having a bad day, which is what it is. Now if there'd been evidence that he was slipping, or Cassandra had told the IQ yes, something is wrong, you might have something, but it's not the case. It's a solution without a problem.

When you're in a position of power as great as that people are disposable tools, it naïve to think otherwise. The Inquisitor is no different; all the soldiers the Inquisition commands are disposable tools. How many hundreds or thousands are thrown at the walls of Adamant fortress just so we can break in? The simple fact is that human (and elven, dwarven, qunari, etc. I suppose) lives are the currency great powers gamble in their games of power. So Leliana kills a few dissenters to stamp out rebellion and assert her power, if it leads to fewer deaths in the long run, it's a good gamble.

No it's not, because if you think that way you're going to make the mistake of seeing killing as the first option.

The soldiers are sent to Adamant because there's no other option, however, they aren't just "thrown" at the walls. Sacrifice is needed but a good commander doesn't throw lives away needlessly nor does he reach for a sledgehammer when a smaller one will do. Good commanders don't just throw people at a battle. Good commanders are sneaky, good commanders do everything they can so they don't have to sacrifice so many lives. The trebuchets, sappers to undermine walls... all things done so the Inquisition doesn't just throw people at the walls.

We get an even better example of it in the montage of the Arbor Wilds. Harrying the enemy forces, hit and run strikes, whittling them down til the main force gets there. Tactics like that save lives in the long run.

No, there's no guarantee that a soldier isn't going to die when he goes into battle, but that soldier's commander OWES it to him not to get him killed needlessly or for some worthless objective. Someone who doesn't see his soldiers as people, with lives and families is more likely to do that.

Take a look at the really good generals throughout history. Patton, Rommel come to mind. They generally aren't the type to see their people as disposable parts.

As for Leliana, the traitor conversation? She's making a decision without any time to consider her options. Her first automatic response was "kill him" rather than considering how she could turn this around. In fact, I find the whole situation implies that she's doing it more out of anger at Butler's betrayal than any cold rational choice. She had no idea why Butler killed him, who Butler was working for... she would have thrown all that away.

Then there's post Haven. Unless she had watchers so far out that they saw the army coming about the time the IQ went up to seal the Breach, maybe she'd had something. But the implication was that they weren't that far from Haven, in which case a few minutes against a force like that isn't going to mean jack. The Inquisition wasn't going to beat that force. And an hour warning wouldn't meant much. In fact, it might have made things worse depending on how they were retreating, if Rodrick said anything, and if anyone was willing to listen. It wouldn't have really mattered in the long run.

With Natalie, her patron was as much of a threat as that idiot that Sera sends you to. A posturing windbag. To be watched, certainly. Have to make sure things don't fester. But killing Natalie gains you nothing. She's been neutralized as a threat. You now know that the Grand Cleric is taking actions, stupid ones maybe, but actions, and it's not as if Natalie knows anything important about what Leliana and the IQ are doing. Killing her at that point is just blood for blood's sake. Especially considered how much of an incompetent schemer she is. And while there's an argument for taking stupid people out of the world, Leliana would never get any sleep.

[TheKomandorShepard]

No it's not, because if you think that way you're going to make the mistake of seeing killing as the first option.

The soldiers are sent to Adamant because there's no other option, however, they aren't just "thrown" at the walls. Sacrifice is needed but a good commander doesn't throw lives away needlessly nor does he reach for a sledgehammer when a smaller one will do. Good commanders don't just throw people at a battle. Good commanders are sneaky, good commanders do everything they can so they don't have to sacrifice so many lives. The trebuchets, sappers to undermine walls... all things done so the Inquisition doesn't just throw people at the walls.

We get an even better example of it in the montage of the Arbor Wilds. Harrying the enemy forces, hit and run strikes, whittling them down til the main force gets there. Tactics like that save lives in the long run.

No, there's no guarantee that a soldier isn't going to die when he goes into battle, but that soldier's commander OWES it to him not to get him killed needlessly or for some worthless objective. Someone who doesn't see his soldiers as people, with lives and families is more likely to do that.

Take a look at the really good generals throughout history. Patton, Rommel come to mind. They generally aren't the type to see their people as disposable parts.

As for Leliana, the traitor conversation? She's making a decision without any time to consider her options. Her first automatic response was "kill him" rather than considering how she could turn this around. In fact, I find the whole situation implies that she's doing it more out of anger at Butler's betrayal than any cold rational choice. She had no idea why Butler killed him, who Butler was working for... she would have thrown all that away.

Then there's post Haven. Unless she had watchers so far out that they saw the army coming about the time the IQ went up to seal the Breach, maybe she'd had something. But the implication was that they weren't that far from Haven, in which case a few minutes against a force like that isn't going to mean jack. The Inquisition wasn't going to beat that force. And an hour warning wouldn't meant much. In fact, it might have made things worse depending on how they were retreating, if Rodrick said anything, and if anyone was willing to listen. It wouldn't have really mattered in the long run.

With Natalie, her patron was as much of a threat as that idiot that Sera sends you to. A posturing windbag. To be watched, certainly. Have to make sure things don't fester. But killing Natalie gains you nothing. She's been neutralized as a threat. You now know that the Grand Cleric is taking actions, stupid ones maybe, but actions, and it's not as if Natalie knows anything important about what Leliana and the IQ are doing. Killing her at that point is just blood for blood's sake. Especially considered how much of an incompetent schemer she is. And while there's an argument for taking stupid people out of the world, Leliana would never get any sleep.

 

What you are discussing has nothing to do with being good or evil only with skillful managing your resources, in fact not only seeing your people like tools that can be sacrificed doesn't not prevent from doing that but also improves it.Even "evil" commander if smart would want the smallest losses on his side.

 

Knowing that Corypheus was coming would help, especially that would allow people to escape and inquisition even mildly prepare for combat if they decided to fight.In the end outcome still would be better than not knowing that enemy was coming.

 

Natalie is an ally to your enemy and by that your enemy keeping her alive grants you nothing and grants supporter to your enemy, while if you off her at least you deprive your enemy from having supporter.   

[Ariella]

True. That was a quote from his doctor.  Stalin had a mental illness it was just not publicly known.  Per History: Joseph Stalin, General Secretary of Soviet Communist Party 1922–1952; Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Paranoid Personality Disorder, Manic Depression.
 
My guess Dr. Myasnikov was unable to give the real story. Stalin's mental illness was hidden, but historians did piece together his profile from his personal diary and doctor's notes.

Understood. It's just that most people tend to throw "mental illness" as a catch all, and since I'm major depressive I kinda knee jerked. I noticed what you said about bipolar, so I hope you understand .

I tend to make her Divine because Vivienne should never be let anywhere near the Sunburst Throne and Cassandra would go running screaming in five minutes. Or she'd start punching people.

[Cobra's_back]

Understood. It's just that most people tend to throw "mental illness" as a catch all, and since I'm major depressive I kinda knee jerked. I noticed what you said about bipolar, so I hope you understand .

I tend to make her Divine because Vivienne should never be let anywhere near the Sunburst Throne and Cassandra would go running screaming in five minutes. Or she'd start punching people.

True. I would never use going nuts to describe a hereditary mental disorder. ADHD, Bi-polar, etc are forever, and can only be managed properly through both psychiatrist and a psychologist. Since there is no test equipment to monitor, and measure the disorders, the psychologist updates the psychiatrist of the situation. In my family we keep both doctors busy. 

 

Leliana doesn't seem like a genetic disposition. She seems like a person who has suffered from environmental situations. For her a nice vacation and good therapist could bring her back to a more stable state. That is completely different than a genetic never going away condition. Winston Churchill was the right man for the job during WW2, and he often talked about his Black Dog which now doctors assume was manic depression. He had to deal with it all his life. There is a big difference between temporary environmental, and a genetic disposition.  Many with a genetic deposition are very strong in nature. They just need medicine to handle the disorder.

 

The writers want you to pick whoever makes you happy. I keep Leliana out of the Divine to give her a well deserved vacation. Both Cassandra and Leliana provide reform. I keep the Templars because my goal was to give them another option "seeker vs drugs". Cassandra rebuilds the seekers but reforms them. The game doesn't allow you to save both groups. If you pick the mages, I'm sure Cassandra offers very little.