202 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

I think part of the reason that the romances all seem to be player initiated is that, although there are certainly times when the NPCs initiate the flirting, it's almost always the player who initiate the conversation. You have to actively go and talk to them for the romance to begin. They will never just walk up to you and start flirting when you are doing something other than deliberately chatting to them.

 

That might be something we see changing if they follow DAI's mold. While you the player still have to go up to the companion to talk to them, several of the cutscenes that result from this are actually framed as the companion in question coming to find and talk to you. So there are ways around that.

[PhroXenGold]

Yeah, the DA:I way is a good start, but I'd like some more completely NPC initiated conversations, where they will just walk up to you and ask to talk without you clicking on them. It does happen occasionally in BW games, but pretty much only for major plot events, or having sex. I'd like to see it happen more for just casual conversation, including things like NPCs hitting on you. Of course, there should be an option to say "No, I'm busy" or similar to end the conversation immediately, but I think having things like this would add greatly to the immersion of the setting. It would make it seem that the other characters have more agency of their own rather than the player controlling everything down to when they're allowed to talk.

[Boost32]

Being interested in someone don't automatically make you not interested in anyone else you can like 2 or more people at the same time. So what Liara asking is perfectly normal. And Liara look like she is same as Isabela fine with polygamy.

I don't think Isabela is fine with polygamy, I think she is fine with an open relationship.

[Panda]

I like NPCs making advances on my character. However I'd prefer if random Asari's stopped stroking my characters face just cause I helped them out.

[9TailsFox]

I like NPCs making advances on my character. However I'd prefer if random Asari's stopped stroking my characters face just cause I helped them out.

This racist respect other spices culture. Stroking face is like hand shake for asari.

[fraggle]

 

FemShep has to initially flirt, sometimes aggressively, with all her male LIs except Kaidan.

 

And then, as you mentioned above, the unpleasant overly forced I want to bang you dialogue for a reluctant at first Jacob and Garrus. 

 

MaleShep has female Lis and npcs throwing their knickers at him all the time.

 

WTF BioWare???

 

BW seriously needs to improve FemProtag's flirting. FemShep is pushy, needy and creepy way too often. I want to try Garrus's romance on my next playthrough, but I'm prepared for some awkward stuff, heh.

Though I think nothing can shock me anymore after Vega's "romance" in the Citadel DLC It was quite fitting for the FemShep I was rolling, but for normal ones that would be hella weird.

I'm not sure if BW thinks these kind of flirting lines actually work in the real world, it was too damn strange. And the last sentence she throws at Vega was just wrong on so many levels.

 

I'm really curious if they do something in this regard, I really hope so.

[ravenesse]

No one minded Liara or Isabela practically throwing themselves at the PC, that I can remember...

I did! At least with Liara. During whole ME1 I was afraid she could touch me. Not because I mind her sex, just because I don't like her.

But actually I'm totally pro flirting companions. Don't want my character to always feel like the pimp.

[KaiserShep]

BW seriously needs to improve FemProtag's flirting. FemShep is pushy, needy and creepy way too often. I want to try Garrus's romance on my next playthrough, but I'm prepared for some awkward stuff, heh.
Though I think nothing can shock me anymore after Vega's "romance" in the Citadel DLC It was quite fitting for the FemShep I was rolling, but for normal ones that would be hella weird.
I'm not sure if BW thinks these kind of flirting lines actually work in the real world, it was too damn strange. And the last sentence she throws at Vega was just wrong on so many levels.
 
I'm really curious if they do something in this regard, I really hope so.

The Garrus flirt is sort of the exception, I thought, but that's because FemShep can have friendly dialogue with him that actually sounds like banter with no flirty hinting. I also like that the line about relieving stress can be directed instead to literally talking about sparring and hitting things. But yeah, the rest are terrible, and I only like FemShep's flirting with Vega when it's more like he's being trolled for flirting himself.

[Iakus]

Ninjamancing is a legitimate concern, but now that they've tried and tested their 'flirt button' paths- dialogue paths that explicitly entail romance, rather than hiding romance flags in normal dialogue branches- I think they've gotten secure enough mechanics-wise to try 'companion-initiated' again.

 

They would also have to ensure there was a way to turn said NPC down without accruing negative affection/rivalry/ "X Disapproves"/whatever affection system is being used.  Else players will feel "punished" for not reciprocating.

[Il Divo]

^That's actually been something I support. The negative influence, that is. It's no more punishing than any other dialogue option/major design choice which companions approve/disapprove of. I don't think the game design goal should necessarily be for the player to be close with all characters at all times.

[Iakus]

^That's actually been something I support. The negative influence, that is. It's no more punishing than any other dialogue option/major design choice which companions approve/disapprove of. I don't think the game design goal should necessarily be for the player to be close with all characters at all times.

 

The thing is the amount of disapproval you would get is totally arbitrary.  Even if the number of points is easily made up.

 

As I showed early in this thread, the rivalry you gain from Anders for rebuffing him is more than you gain from him for blackmailing Thrask with the information that he had a mage daughter.  That's just messed up.

[Danadenassis]

 

FemShep has to initially flirt, sometimes aggressively, with all her male LIs except Kaidan.

 

<snip>

 

Shepard: We'll just have to figure it out.

Thane: I look forward to the memories.

 

And then, as you mentioned above, the unpleasant overly forced I want to bang you dialogue for a reluctant at first Jacob and Garrus. 

 

MaleShep has female Lis and npcs throwing their knickers at him all the time.

 

WTF BioWare???

 

....Thane used an old pet name for his dead wife on femShep...

 

Wait...

 

I just looked at the Garrus romance again. For femShep, after his recruitment and after he leaves the infirmary, he may say to her "some women find facial scars attractive" in a flirtatious manner. So he did flirt first, and then got nervous when femShep pursued aggressively later on. I don't know what to make of this now. 

I don't find this so unrealistic, despite the lack of tact that you point out. Perhaps women usually get more such experiences where a romance is thrown right in your face making you wonder where the heck that came from and what triggered such a reaction. Makes sense that I didn't like Thane that much.

 

Overall would I also have enjoyed both more clearly neutral (avoiding innuendos) and at least clear assertive choices; I've yet to be in a relationship with anyone in the physical world where we didn't actually agree on being a couple, etc. Flirting,  yes, confusions, desire and aching feelings, yes, but an actual relationship?

[Il Divo]

^I think you're totally right on that point. But I think this brings up two things that need to happen:

 

1) Rebalancing of how approval/disapproval works. In most cases, I think characters will hate you more for committing atrocities than rebuffing their romance.

 

2) I'd actually say we shouldn't even see the approval/disapproval ratings, which tend to tempt the player to game the system to get the highest levels possible, instead of playing our characters. For me, seeing +/- all the time just ends up being a distraction. 

 

Edit: Unless you're suggesting to drop the system altogether, in which case, nothing I wrote here really applies.

[Iakus]

^I think you're totally right on that point. But I think this brings up two things that need to happen:

 

1) Rebalancing of how approval/disapproval works. In most cases, I think characters will hate you more for committing atrocities than rebuffing their romance.

 

2) I'd actually say we shouldn't even see the approval/disapproval ratings, which tend to tempt the player to game the system to get the highest levels possible, instead of playing our characters. For me, seeing +/- all the time just ends up being a distraction. 

 

Edit: Unless you're suggesting to drop the system altogether, in which case, nothing I wrote here really applies.

Oh, I think approval/disapproval should still happen (and I liked how DAI was vague about gain and loss) , but it should be reserved for things more major than "Does he/she like me, or like me-like me?"

[goishen]

Imagine that you could ****** somebody off enough to have them go on a "if I can't have you, nobody will" trope.

 

That's....        

 

 

That's not good writing.

[Ahglock]

^That's actually been something I support. The negative influence, that is. It's no more punishing than any other dialogue option/major design choice which companions approve/disapprove of. I don't think the game design goal should necessarily be for the player to be close with all characters at all times.

I don't know it kind of feels creepy stalker level to get negative feelings for being turned down. I don't go into what a ****** mode unless the turning down was unnecessarily rude. Disappointed, sad, sure but my opinion of the person didn't change as long as they used some tact.

[Fredward]

I don't know it kind of feels creepy stalker level to get negative feelings for being turned down.

 

Why? Your feelings are hurt. There's a difference between 'ouch, that stung' and '****** I'm gonna live under your bed until you love me.'
 

Although I suppose it also depends on the person. Someone whose used to getting what they want might take it more personally than someone more laidback/chill.

[DarthLaxian]

If a companion is interested in the PC they should be able to outright state so, just because some immature people find it offensive that a gay men is hitting on them doesnt mean companion flirting should outright omitted. Why?

 

Why is it that the PC always have to be the one to initiate the romance? It breaks immersion and makes characters seem more like props. Please fix this bioware.

 

Indeed - more people (companions, but also non-companion NPCs of varying importance) should be able to voice their interest in the PC (which should maybe lessen over time or if certain actions are performed (or spike - if others are performed instead!)) - hell, why not give us disinterested characters as well (who you really have to convince - note: yes, there's a line between persistence and being an ass, but I think if done right this would be cool, to) who outright state that they dislike or hate the PC?

 

I'd really love that - hell, maybe some characters could (and should) also hit on your companions and you should be able to help them out (council them - as in advise them on the matter or discourage it etc.))...or they could outright dislike and hate them (just like the PC), so that you have to council them on that as well!

 

greetings LAX

ps: no, it would not become a dating sim by doing that, it would just emulate reality better IMHO!

[Ahglock]

Why? Your feelings are hurt. There's a difference between 'ouch, that stung' and '****** I'm gonna live under your bed until you love me.'

Although I suppose it also depends on the person. Someone whose used to getting what they want might take it more personally than someone more laidback/chill.

And there is a difference between my feelings being hurt and me not liking someone. Rivalry points at least to me implies some level of dislike for the PC. And that implies to me taking it way too personally to a creepy stalker level. Basically rivalry points for something like "I'm flattered, but I'm sorry I'm not interested" seems creepy stalker level of disappointment. Now. "Uh, gross never ask me again you disgusting tentacle headed freak" yeah go ahead and hand out rivalry points.

The turn down in itself should not give rivalry points as you should still see the person the same way as before in that they are still smart, funny, nice or whatever attracted you to them in the first place. Unless the turning down is a rude enough method that you would think, the LI is not the person I thought they were rivalry points should stay the same. If the rivalry points change for a tame turn down I'd be like cut this character loose they are a stalker waiting to go psycho on me.

[Fredward]

And there is a difference between my feelings being hurt and me not liking someone. Rivalry points at least to me implies some level of dislike for the PC. And that implies to me taking it way too personally to a creepy stalker level. Basically rivalry points for something like "I'm flattered, but I'm sorry I'm not interested" seems creepy stalker level of disappointment. Now. "Uh, gross never ask me again you disgusting tentacle headed freak" yeah go ahead and hand out rivalry points.

The turn down in itself should not give rivalry points as you should still see the person the same way as before in that they are still smart, funny, nice or whatever attracted you to them in the first place. Unless the turning down is a rude enough method that you would think, the LI is not the person I thought they were rivalry points should stay the same. If the rivalry points change for a tame turn down I'd be like cut this character loose they are a stalker waiting to go psycho on me.

 

Yeah but it also depends on how many rivalry points. If it was like +25 or 50 or something than yeah, that's kinda weird but I'd think 10 (was it 10?) is a fair bit to show a bruised ego.
 

But ~shrug~ different strokes and all that.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Liara is easy to avoid, just tell her "Let's be friends" when she brings it up. Ashley and Kaidan on the other hand - you have be a jerk to them at least once.

 

Have you ever tried to avoid the straight romance in Jade Empire and allowing the S/S to prevail (i.e. if you want to discard Sky and romance Silk Fox)?.

You must tell him "I don't give a **** about you and your tragic past. Don't ever bother me anymore", which basically cut out every interaction with that companion...

 

Comparing to those ones, I must say they have already improved a lot..

[SnakeCode]

They would also have to ensure there was a way to turn said NPC down without accruing negative affection/rivalry/ "X Disapproves"/whatever affection system is being used.  Else players will feel "punished" for not reciprocating.

 

And? Rejection hurts, I think it's entirely reasonable to get negative influence for this.

[daveliam]

And? Rejection hurts, I think it's entirely reasonable to get negative influence for this.

 

I agree with this.  People complain about the Anders rejection causing rivalry points but, frankly, it's one of the most realistic consequences in the game.  Anders is a moody, passionate, dramatic, emotional man.  He puts himself out there and you shoot him down.  Of course he is going to react unfavorably to that.  It's realistic.  Sometimes, a person who you are not interested in will hit on you and, when you reject them, their feelings get hurt.  It's not a big deal.  Anders quickly gets over it.  Plus, the hit in rivalry (which can be avoided, btw, while still not engaging in the romance content) is pretty small given the total amount of friendship/rivalry points in the game. 

 

It's one thing to complain about the tone that Hawke uses when you reject Anders.  It's a totally different thing to complain about getting rivalry points for rejecting the moody, emotional guy who just laid his feelings bare.

[Jaison1986]

I agree with this.  People complain about the Anders rejection causing rivalry points but, frankly, it's one of the most realistic consequences in the game.  Anders is a moody, passionate, dramatic, emotional man.  He puts himself out there and you shoot him down.  Of course he is going to react unfavorably to that.  It's realistic.  Sometimes, a person who you are not interested in will hit on you and, when you reject them, their feelings get hurt.  It's not a big deal.  Anders quickly gets over it.  Plus, the hit in rivalry (which can be avoided, btw, while still not engaging in the romance content) is pretty small given the total amount of friendship/rivalry points in the game. 

 

It's one thing to complain about the tone that Hawke uses when you reject Anders.  It's a totally different thing to complain about getting rivalry points for rejecting the moody, emotional guy who just laid his feelings bare.

 

Well, you can reject Fenris when he flirts with you. And he takes it pretty well. Getting upset about being rejected isn't as bothersome as the timing for it. I mean, Anders flirts with you the same day you meet him and gets upset for being rejected. I do find that a bit unrealistic. I mean, getting hurt for being rejected by a person you just met? That would indicate some attachment issues.

[AlanC9]

 
2) I'd actually say we shouldn't even see the approval/disapproval ratings, which tend to tempt the player to game the system to get the highest levels possible, instead of playing our characters. For me, seeing +/- all the time just ends up being a distraction.

It's an interesting issue. On the one hand, most players seem to want transparent dialogue mechanics. On the other, we often don't want NPC personalities themselves to be transparent. Though some of us do, which is why someone always puts an approval guide on the wiki almost immediately after release.