74 réponses à ce sujet

[Livi14]

I can't think of any reason to include the yahg, and I doubt Quarians or Geth will make it for obvious reasons.

The krogan are already confirmed and I think the species with seats on the Council are a safe bet.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Humans. Obviously.

[Quarian Master Race]

Can't say "definitely" of anyone at this point, but as we've been learning little bits about the game through developer comments I'm inclined to believe it's "likely" that everyone but the 4 Council species and krogan are being dropped.
 

 

[Queen Skadi]

^But what species could fill that role? Just going back to the Rachni Wars, what made the Krogans viable was their ability to survive in harsh environments. Obviously we can't colonize that sort of set up, but that could still prove useful in certain contexts, while we're looking for resources, etc. Far as I know, the only races which could feasibly replace the Krogan are all "rejects" in the Council's eyes: Rachni, Vorcha, Yahg, etc.

 

Krogans are probably better suited for it but it is not like they don't have the technology in the Mass Effect universe to allow other species to survive in harsher environments.

[wright1978]

I'd guess batarians, geth, yahg, rachni definitely won't be there.
The likes of the quarians, drell, hanar, elcor, volus would be on the insecure list.
The likes of humans, Turians, krogans, salarians & Asari seem secure.
I'm fine with notion that not all races will make it. It would be silly story wise for every species from milky way to make it IMO.
However I hope reach of ark is extended past some of the insecure ones.

[Ahriman]

 

I can't think of any reason to include the yahg

They are not even target for Harvest to begin with.

Species which it would make sense not to show up in MEA:

 

quarians (could be wiped out at Rannoch)

geth (could be wiped out TWICE. At Rannoch and if Destroy is chosen)

drell (could be wiped out if Kahje falls)

krogan (could be virtually wiped out if the Tuchanka bomb goes off in addition to possibly keeping the genophage around)

Agree, except krogans. Bomb never goes off, the only question about them is genophage Schrodinger's box. Anyway we've seen krogan in trailer already.

I'd also add Batarians to the list. They are almost wiped out at the moment of ME3 and most importantly they don't have a fanbase.

[Quarian Master Race]

Krogans are probably better suited for it but it is not like they don't have the technology in the Mass Effect universe to allow other species to survive in harsher environments.

Moreover, the sole possibility of fighting in harsh environments is pretty shaky reasoning to bring the big angry battletoads with a chip on their shoulder and who tend to fight and break things/people in confined spaces (i.e. such as when living on starships) while having almost no other utility. I can think of much better reasons to include most of the other non Council or affiliate species, such as the bugs who are even better in toxic environments and require practically no heavy machinery to subsist or function as a capable fighting force, the people who literally wrote the book on long term living on starships and resource efficiency, the financial experts who are masters of setting up a functioning market economy, or the tireless robots who are almost completely unaffected by environmental hazards or subsistence concerns apart from the necessary raw materials required to build themselves.

Krogan are there despite their canon extinction in some ME3 outcomes because they are a popular, recognizable and integral part of the setting for many, including the developers. Any species who doesn't make it won't be left out because of any insurmountable in universe concerns, but because the writers and developers didn't want them there or they are not (perceived or otherwise) popular enough.

[von uber]

The big problem you are all having is that you are accepting the established lore. You should know by now that mass effect lore is as maluable as putty, and as consistent as a politician.

[Quarian Master Race]

The big problem you are all having is that you are accepting the established lore. You should know by now that mass effect lore is as maluable as putty, and as consistent as a politician.

Or that Biower has to take into accout treating as "canon" all narrative possiblities that any horrible Failshep could encounter going forward.

Shepard's death at the Collector Base anyone? 

[Iakus]

The big problem you are all having is that you are accepting the established lore. You should know by now that mass effect lore is as maluable as putty, and as consistent as a politician.

QFT

[FKA_Servo]

Shepard's death at the Collector Base anyone? 

 

Probably for the best.

[Armass81]

Yahg.

[Il Divo]

Krogans are probably better suited for it but it is not like they don't have the technology in the Mass Effect universe to allow other species to survive in harsher environments.

 

In a limited context, that might be true that we can bring other species to harsher climates. But at the same time, then we wouldn't have needed the Krogan in the first place to combat the Rachni so readily.

[Iakus]

The big problem you are all having is that you are accepting the established lore. You should know by now that mass effect lore is as maluable as putty, and as consistent as a politician.

But, but... our choices matter!  Player choice is important, they said so! 

 

/sarcasm

[Il Divo]

1) Moreover, the sole possibility of fighting in harsh environments is pretty shaky reasoning to bring the big angry battletoads with a chip on their shoulder and who tend to fight and break things/people in confined spaces (i.e. such as when living on starships) while having almost no other utility. I can think of much better reasons to include most of the other non Council or affiliate species, such as the bugs who are even better in toxic environments and require practically no heavy machinery to subsist or function as a capable fighting force, the people who literally wrote the book on long term living on starships and resource efficiency, the financial experts who are masters of setting up a functioning market economy, or the tireless robots who are almost completely unaffected by environmental hazards or subsistence concerns apart from the necessary raw materials required to build themselves.

2) Krogan are there despite their canon extinction in some ME3 outcomes because they are a popular, recognizable and integral part of the setting for many, including the developers. Any species who doesn't make it won't be left out because of any insurmountable in universe concerns, but because the writers and developers didn't want them there or they are not (perceived or otherwise) popular enough.

 

1) Where is our source of bugs/Geth though? Putting aside that both groups even more reviled than the Krogan, one of the more popular theories is that this takes place at the start of ME3, to avoid any heavy decision-making factors impacting the narrative. Neither the Rachni or the Geth are available in that context.

 

2) Likewise with this. Where is the canon Krogan extinction? Worst case scenario typically involves Reave in control. I don't recall there being any canon outcomes which result in the Krogan's complete extinction. Even if there were, that's solved by taking Krogan prior to ME3's Genophage arc.
 

[Iakus]

 

2) Likewise with this. Where is the canon Krogan extinction? Worst case scenario typically involves Reave in control. I don't recall there being any canon outcomes which result in the Krogan's complete extinction. Even if there were, that's solved by taking Krogan prior to ME3's Genophage arc.
 

A combination of events can leave the krogan in a very, very bad place.

 

First off, leaving the genophage in place while fighting a genocidal war is, of course, a bit of a problem.

 

But in addition, the Tuchanka bomb takes out everyone in the Kelphic Valley, where most of the remaining fertile females are.  Letting it go off if a terrible blow to the krogan under any circumstance.  But with the genophage still in place it's a virtual death sentence for the species.

[Drone223]

The big problem you are all having is that you are accepting the established lore. You should know by now that mass effect lore is as maluable as putty, and as consistent as a politician.

Its like Bioware is no longer bothering with giving the ME universe consistency and limitations they just DEM all the problems away.

[Quarian Master Race]

1) Where is our source of bugs/Geth though? Putting aside that both groups even more reviled than the Krogan, one of the more popular theories is that this takes place at the start of ME3, to avoid any heavy decision-making factors impacting the narrative.

*Invents contrived story that enables bug/geth inclusion

Hey, it worked for Legion. They rewrote the geth entirely from ME1 to include it as a squadmate. Or they could simply ignore lore/choices, like with how there are still geth allies running around in the supposedly canon ME3MP despite the fact that I have clearly killed them off entirely at least 40 times by now.

For rachni, the salarians find another queen egg> covert mad science ensues> rachni everywhere.

 

2) Likewise with this. Where is the canon Krogan extinction? Worst case scenario typically involves Reave in control. I don't recall there being any canon outcomes which result in the Krogan's complete extinction. 

 

Destroy or control: Sabotaged cure, the second with original Rachni queen saved. I'm assuming the krogan didn't just sell Tuchanka to the rachni because they got a great offer or something.

The implication here is clear. The species is doomed. You can make a case for individuals, but then again you can do the same with others who can get doomed by the narrative or ending (geth, batarian, quarian, drell, hanar, elcor etc. also humans if we take low EMS destroy into account, and everyone for refuse), so that wouldn't justify including them but not the others

 

 

 

Even if there were, that's solved by taking Krogan prior to ME3's Genophage arc.

 

See above. That's a viable reason to include literally anyone, and would make the exclusion of anyone a glaringly obvious case of popularity rules.

[Il Divo]

A combination of events can leave the krogan in a very, very bad place.

 

First off, leaving the genophage in place while fighting a genocidal war is, of course, a bit of a problem.

 

But in addition, the Tuchanka bomb takes out everyone in the Kelphic Valley, where most of the remaining fertile females are.  Letting it go off if a terrible blow to the krogan under any circumstance.  But with the genophage still in place it's a virtual death sentence for the species.

 

 

Still, this seems more like an argument against using a post Tuchanka Ark-theory than anything else, which is pretty much the goal anyway since we're trying to avoid addressing as much of ME3 as possible. It still fits within the lore.
 

[Il Divo]

*Invents contrived story that enables bug/geth inclusion

Hey, it worked for Legion. They rewrote the geth entirely from ME1 to include it as a squadmate. Or they could simply ignore lore/choices, like with how there are still geth allies running around in the supposedly canon ME3MP despite the fact that I have clearly killed them off entirely at least 40 times by now.

 

That works as a counter-argument, assuming we're willing to throw the lore away. I'm cool with that, since I think the lore's importance is highly over-stated anyway. But the criticism I was addressing was in the context of Mass Effect lore that we currently have.

 

If we're retconning new rules into and out of existence, we can make anything work. If we want to work within the confines of the Mass Effect narrative, the Krogan are viable, the Geth/Rachni are not since we have no idea where they are. In that context (again making lore up), we can come up with any number of contrived reasons to get the Krogan aboard the Ark too. Contrived reasons to keep the Krogans off the Ark aren't any better (or worse) than contrived reasons to keep them on the Ark.

[Cheviot]

I mean there has to be a few we can cross off the list right?

It's not looking good for the Shifty Looking Cows at the moment.

[N7Jamaican]

Rachni.

[Chealec]

Sloths

 

 

Wait for me man I'll be there in a min... oh...

[Iakus]

Still, this seems more like an argument against using a post Tuchanka Ark-theory than anything else, which is pretty much the goal anyway since we're trying to avoid addressing as much of ME3 as possible. It still fits within the lore.
 

Yeah, it definitely suggests that whatever's going on started pre-ending.  But it's still a problem.

 

Krogan guard their fertile females very closely.  They are all on Tuchanka and under heavy guard.  We've been looking at it as "Do the Council trust the krogan"  but really, do teh krogan trust the Council with one of the very few individuals capable of perpetuating their race?

 

HEck I'm starting t think any krogan that would take this journey would be tank-bred.

[Quarian Master Race]

That works as a counter-argument, assuming we're willing to throw the lore away. I'm cool with that, since I think the lore's importance is highly over-stated anyway. But the criticism I was addressing was in the context of Mass Effect lore that we currently have.

 

If we're retconning new rules into and out of existence, we can make anything work. If we want to work within the confines of the Mass Effect narrative, the Krogan are viable, the Geth/Rachni are not.

fair enough. I don't disagree with any of that, but the geth and rachni are the only two where I think the case could be made that would apply, this all assuming a pre ME3 narrative divergence point (of which we have no real evidence beyond supposition at this point).